EU in/out referendum could become "neverendum", warns senior Tory

[Blackleaf]

Britain's EU in/out referendum could end up becoming a "neverendum", a politician has warned.

David Cameron is currently touring Europe and meeting European leaders to try and win support for his EU reforms, which he would like to see implemented before the British people decide, before the end of 2017, whether or not Britain should remain in the EU.

It is thought that, should he get the EU reforms he wants, Cameron will campaign to stay in the EU during the referendum campaign. But if he doesn't get the reforms he wants, then he will campaign for Britain to quit the EU.

Now, an unnamed Conservative said that they would like Britain to stay a member of the EU trading area, but lose the 'domestic policies' associated with it, according to the Telegraph.

But they told the newspaper that the promised 2017 vote will 'not be the end game, just as the Scottish referendum is not the end game.

'It wasn't even the start - it started in 1997 with devolution.'

So the celebrations of the pro-EU faction should they win the upcoming referendum could end up being shortlived.

The Prime Minister has promised to reshape Britain's EU ties, reclaim some powers from Brussels, before allowing the country to vote on whether to stay or quit.

This week Cameron carried out a two day whistle-stop tour of European capitals, to sell his shopping list of proposed reforms.

These included stricter requirements for EU migrants in claiming British social welfare benefits, and for London to be able to opt out of an EU commitment to 'ever closer union'.

Britain could get second EU referendum by 2020 if Cameron fails to secure new deal

Tory reportedly warns pledged referendum will not be 'the end game'
Brits could be given a second vote by 2020 on whether to quit EU
PM wants to reclaim some powers from Brussels before giving country the vote

By Sam Matthew for MailOnline
31 May 2015
Daily Mail

Britain could be given a second referendum within five years if they vote to remain in the European Union.

A senior Tory has said that the in-out vote, pledged to take place in 2017, will not be 'the end game.'

They said the country could go to the polls again by 2020 if the Prime Minister fails to get concessions from Brussels.

German chancellor Angela Merkel said it was Germany's 'clear hope the British people will decide to see Britain remain in the European Union'

The unnamed Conservative said that they would like Britain to stay a member of the EU trading area, but lose the 'domestic policies' associated with it, according to the Telegraph.

They told the newspaper that the promised 2017 vote will 'not be the end game, just as the Scottish referendum is not the end game.

'It wasn't even the start - it started in 1997 with devolution.'

The Prime Minister has promised to reshape Britain's EU ties, reclaim some powers from Brussels, before allowing the country to vote on whether to stay or quit.

This week Cameron carried out a two day whistle-stop tour of European capitals, to sell his shopping list of proposed reforms.

These included stricter requirements for EU migrants in claiming British social welfare benefits, and for London to be able to opt out of an EU commitment to 'ever closer union'.

Cameron said earlier this week he was 'confident' of securing a deal, but warned there would be 'lots of noise, lots of ups and downs along the way'.

The German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who is certain to play a central role in the negotiations, described her talks with Cameron as 'constructive and friendly,' and said they had begun talking about specifics and what could be done to accommodate Britain's wishes.

She said it was Germany's 'clear hope the British people will decide to see Britain remain in the European Union.'

Cameron also visited the Hague, Paris and Warsaw.

CAMERON'S KEY DEMANDS FOR EU REFORM BEFORE REFERENDUM


FOR WORKERS FROM THE EU:
No in-work benefits until they have been in Britain for four years
No social housing for four years
No child benefit or tax credits paid for children living outside the UK

FOR UNEMPLOYED EU MIGRANTS:
No support from the UK taxpayer
Deportation if they do not get a job for six months

Other measures include:
Impose restrictions on EU migrants bringing in family members from outside the EU
Longer bans on rough sleepers, beggars and fraudsters returning to the UK
Tougher rules on deporting foriegn criminals
Refusing to allow other countries to join the EU without imposing controls on the movement of their workers until their economies have reached UK levels

In Poland on Friday Prime Minister Ewa Kopacz warned Cameron that his reforms on EU migrants 'cannot discriminate against Poles', over 800,000 of whom live and work in Britain.

She said 'it would be a shame' if Britain 'were to disappear from the EU'.

Nicola Sturgeon, is set to tell Brussels this week that membership to the EU is vital to Scottish jobs and the economy.

The First Minister will state the Scottish Government's commitment to Europe and reiterate her call for a 'double lock' on membership to prevent Scotland being forced out of the EU against its will in the referendum. However, such a system is unlikely to be put into place.

Ms Sturgeon will also highlight the Scottish jobs linked to EU trade and the economic and cultural contributions made in Scotland by people born elsewhere in the EU.

The speech in the European Policy Centre to an audience of policy makers and institution representatives will be her first in the EU capital.

The First Minister is expected to say: 'I firmly believe that membership of Europe is in Scotland's best interests - and have done for all of my adult life.

'We value Scotland's place in Europe, and the benefits it brings in terms of jobs and investment - with more than 300,000 Scottish jobs estimated to be associated with our exports to the European Union.

'Perhaps most fundamentally of all, the freedom to travel, study and work across Europe has brought major benefits to Scotland. At present there are 171,000 people from elsewhere in the European Union who live and work in Scotland.

Nicola Sturgeon is set to tell Brussels this week that membership to the EU is vital to Scottish jobs and the economy.

'They contribute hugely to the diversity of our culture, the prosperity of our economy, and the strength of our society.

'Polls in Scotland consistently show strong support for EU membership. That is why we will propose a 'double lock', meaning that exit from the European Union would only be possible if all UK nations agreed. That way Scotland couldn't be forced out of the European Union against our will.'

EU REFERENDUM QUESTION REVEALED: 'SHOULD THE UNITED KINGDOM REMAIN A MEMBER OF THE EUROPEAN UNION':

Voters will be asked if the UK should 'remain a member' of the European Union when they go to the polls for the in/out referendum, Downing Street has confirmed.

The wording of the question that will appear on ballot papers means supporters of Britain retaining its ties to Brussels will form the 'Yes' campaign.

Details of the question and a commitment to staging the popular vote by the end of 2017 are contained in a Bill introduced into Parliament today.

Downing Street said the measures being published provide a 'concrete step' towards settling the row over Britain's links with Brussels.

The Conservatives' preferred wording for the in/out referendum question - ''Do you think that the United Kingdom should be a member of the European Union?'' - has been dropped following concerns by the Electoral Commission that some people might think the country was not already a member.

Instead the watchdog's recommended choice for voters has been adopted in the EU Referendum Bill. It reads: 'Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union?'

Read more: Britain could get second EU referendum by 2020 if Cameron fails to secure new deal | Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
​

 

[MHz]

What makes you think you will have a better chance than you gave Scotland in their attempt to escape corruption? Shaking hands with Germany means nothing when there is a pen in their hand when they are talking to Russia. A land of unemployed would be booted out rather than 'gaining independence'. Germany would be inking deals with Russia and Chine as that is the direction big trades will be going. China has the workers, they need the machines to arrive in rail and worked after plugging them in to something called electricity.
A task the West could have completed in the 50 year rule of the world, instead they stifled advances once it serviced 3% of the population. That is not the right number to stop at, you did, now you are being fired because of it. You could always start up a pirate radio station and complain about it.

 

[Blackleaf]

What makes you think you will have a better chance than you gave Scotland in their attempt to escape corruption?

We gave the Little Scotlanders a great chance, but they saw the light, knew which way their bread is buttered, and voted to remain in the UK knowing that that is where they are better off.

Germany would be inking deals with Russia and Chine as that is the direction big trades will be going.

Not whilst it's a member of the EU, it won't. As a member of the EU it can't decide of its own accord who to trade with as it is the EU collectively which does the trading and it is that which decides.

As Ukip leader Nigel Farage pointed out during the first of his two head to head televised debates with the then LibDem leader, the then Deputy PM and arch-Europhile Nick Clegg - Farage wiped the floor with him in both debates - tiny Iceland, with a population of just a third of a million and which is not in the EU, signed a trade deal with China in April 2013. Britain cannot unilaterally sign its own trade deals anymore as it is a member of the EU, so it's Brussels which decides.

In fact, as Mr Farage often points out, both Iceland and Switzerland, both countries much smaller than Britain and which aren't in the EU, have more global trade deal than Britain has and are not constrained by EU red tape, bureaucracy and rules on such matters.

Britain needs to get out of the EU so that she can, to her own benefit, decide with whom she trades with without being dictated to on such matters by unelected foreigners in Brussels. A country doesn't need to be in the EU to trade globally, especially Britain, a seafaring nation which traded globally long before the EU came along.

 

[MHz]

"which way their bread is buttered" That should probably be 'which side' but whatever you show the point quite well. Rather than stand idly by as England should have they became active participants in the Scottish election process. Something England would frown on if Scotland did the same in an English election process. Since you were a suit of armor to keep the truth at bay be ready for some hail damage.

In Quebec's referendum the vote was held in Quebec alone, it should have automatically become a national vote as the 1867 rules state Constitutional matters as defined in that same document had to be voted on in a referendum by the people it would affect. Quebec managed to stay in by the smallest of margins, had the West been voting it would have been a landslide 'out of the club like yesterday' margin. The UK (the whole lot) having a local vote would mean it is fixed from the start and that would be for the same reason. Teach somebody how lucky they were the vote didn't go the 'other way' when going the other way is just how it would have gone if the EU citizens were also part of the voting block. Quebec as a French entity in an international world is as useful as tits on a boar, same with the UK to the EU, no real purpose but kicking her out would just make her a blight on North America and we will be having our own difficulties. Might I suggest some south facing high ground in the south west corner as being the place where snow shoveling will not become the only national sport that has any fans. Link a motel top Noah and you could probably charge more.

You should change you avatar unless you are following his not political career. What Corp is he with now? How about Galloway, he was also defeated by fair or foul means so changes. Make him the first UK Ambassador to Gaza and he can get involved in the new international port/resort they will be opening soon.

 

[Blackleaf]

Quebec as a French entity in an international world is as useful as tits on a boar, same with the UK to the EU, no real purpose but kicking her out would just make her a blight on North America and we will be having our own difficulties.

Britain is the fifth-biggest economy in the world, bigger than France and soon-to-be bigger than Germany, and one of the world's foremost military powers. She is a pop music and cultural superpower and is, when taking all measures into account, the second-most powerful nation on Earth. We don't need to be part of the EUSSR to be influential in the world and to secure global trade deals. Britain will, in fact, when she leaves the EU, be MORE influential than she is now within the EU. And Britain is a seafaring, maritime nation which managed to trade quite well globally for centuries before the EU came along.

Britain: apart from or a part of Europe

The ‘Historians for Britain’ campaign believes that Britain’s unique history sets it apart from the rest of Europe

By David Abulafia, Professor of Mediterranean History at the University of Cambridge and Chairman of Historians for Britain, a campaign headed by some of Britain’s leading historians and academics who believe there needs to be a substantial change in Britain’s relationship with the EU
11th May 2015
History Today

A challenging relationship: air raids against Germany are planned, 1944

Why ‘Historians for Britain’? In many ways the organisation that I and several colleagues have been setting up over the last year could equally well have been entitled ‘Historians for Europe’, for we are not hostile to Europe and we believe that in an ideal world Britain would remain within a radically reformed European Union. We are a group of historians, both inside and outside the universities, who believe that a historical perspective on Britain’s relationship with Europe urgently needs to be supplied at a time when debate about that relationship has become not just lively but heated. As an offshoot of the pressure group Business for Britain, our view is that the British public does need to be consulted about Britain’s membership of the European Union. At the same time, a referendum held tomorrow would leave no chance for the renegotiation of Britain’s position in the EU and an opportunity for that is vital. More than that: renegotiation has to include a commitment by the EU itself to reform its ways and, at the very least, to leave those countries that do not seek to be part of a ‘United States of Europe’ free to rely upon their own sovereign institutions without interference.

Democracy in action: Britain is to hold a referendum in which her people will decide whether she should remain in the EU or leave

That might sound like a political manifesto rather than a series of historical arguments. Yet we hold political views that span the spectrum from the right to the left. We aim to show how the United Kingdom has developed in a distinctive way by comparison with its continental neighbours. This has resulted in the creation of a different legal system based on precedent, rather than Roman law or Napoleonic codes; the British Parliament embodies principles of political conduct that have their roots in the 13th century or earlier; ancient institutions, such as the monarchy and several universities, have survived (and evolved) with scarcely a break over many centuries. This degree of continuity is unparalleled in continental Europe. To some extent you can find it in parts of Spain; but even there, where parliamentary assembles go back well into the Middle Ages, radical constitutional change and civil war have broken many continuities. You cannot find it in France after the Revolution and the Napoleonic era, while Germany and Italy are 19th-century creations, whose political systems were almost entirely reconstructed after 1945. Portugal apart, national boundaries have fluctuated, often wildly, over the centuries; and even Britain has contracted, with the departure of most of Ireland in 1922. But – allowing for occasional coups d’état by Henry VII and William of Orange – Britain has not been torn apart by invasion since 1066. Nor has its public favoured the intense nationalism that has consumed many European countries, even allowing for the independence campaign in Scotland. Fascism and antisemitism never struck deep roots here, nor did Communism (except as a silly fad among student politicians). The British political temper has been milder than that in the other larger European countries.

Alongside these differences there is a long history of British engagement with Europe; not just English engagement, but also Scottish (the ‘auld alliance’ with France, most notably). ‘Fog in Channel, Continent Isolated’, the famous newspaper headline, does not represent the real nature of Britain’s involvement in Europe, whether one thinks of the wool trade with Flanders that was such a source of wealth in the Middle Ages, or the English conquests that reached as far as Gascony, the ‘longest alliance’ between England and Portugal or, indeed, in more recent times, the British presence in the Mediterranean that at various points brought not just Gibraltar but Minorca, Corsica, Malta, Corfu and Cyprus under the British flag. British and French guarantees to Poland were honoured in 1939, with the result that we found ourselves in a war to the death with Germany.

Britain is probably the most eurosceptic of the 28 EU Member States. The EU is more unpopular in Britain than it has been at any time in the last 20 years, according to the annual British attitudes survey of 2015

One way to describe this relationship would be to say that the United Kingdom has always been a partner of Europe without being a full participant in it. After all, until the second half of the 20th century, Britain still ruled over vast tracts of the globe very far from Europe. Becoming European might be seen as a reaction to ceasing to be imperial, or at least to the loosening of ties with the growing Commonwealth. But that is to over-simplify a complex recent history: in 1973 the United Kingdom joined a Common Market and there are many who would have preferred the founders of what is now the European Union to have forgotten their dreams of ‘ever-greater union’ and to have concentrated on making that economic association work better.

Historians for Britain aims to facilitate that debate. How one votes in a referendum should be influenced by what sort of new offer is on the table following renegotiation of Britain’s position within the EU. That offer has to reflect the distinctive character of the United Kingdom, rooted in its largely uninterrupted history since the Middle Ages.



- See more at: Britain: apart from or a part of Europe? | History Today

 

[MHz]

If entertainment was your goal you certainly achieved that portion. This might be a bit long buy I assure you I'm not grinding you down based on anything other than the true role of a small island community in a time of global cutbacks and relocation of the business and financial sectors that eliminate the ones that are currently the middle-men that basically ride for free at a level that challenges the elite in terms of material comfort. So far the belt tightening is around the feet, when the throat gets involved then that would be 'worse' and I'm sure you wouldn't argue that point at it's base level.
You did admit that the UK still lives in the illusion that the 'old kingdom' has never changed, you just allowed a change in management. That would be true as far as NA is concerned. France is the fake enemy of convenience that never results in any 'corrective action' and they collaborate on a lot more than not so only a very stupid person would not see through that. Two political parties in Government is just as fake, that doesn't seem to have any affect on how popular it is. You version just show Merlin is still writing scripts for you and your 'leaders'.

Britain is the fifth-biggest economy in the world,

Lets use just the money that floats around town rather than money that comes in and gets transferred to the EU Banks. Take away income from being shareholders in any corporation that you are not employed in. The Royals are not a business, they are a needless charity. It is as immoral as me drawing welfare when I have million in an off-shore account.

bigger than France and soon-to-be bigger than Germany,

France is a basket case still, everything she does for NATO is too immoral for anybody above her, she has the 'also ran' label, . . again. Being better than her just means there is no competition.

and one of the world's foremost military powers.

Not by yourself, part of a pack so the assets of all cannot be counted as being your strength alone. Power means the Falklands would have been over the same week it became 'an issue'. Parking at an American Naval base for a month ot so after 'setting sail' means all sort of deceptive things could have gone on. One thing is sure, you didn't act alone, then or anytime after no matter what theater of war it is.
True international power would have meant it never became an issue in the first place.

She is a pop music and cultural superpower and is,

To those who have power you mean. Singing in the shower is typical of the most popular form of music in the world, and it's basically free.
Way to take credit for making something a restricted item that is available to only a few though.

when taking all measures into account,

Take the minimal amount, you know the same amount you actually put into 'events'.

the second-most powerful nation on Earth.

How modest of you, now lets see the 200 other lists where you aren't the author.

We don't need to be part of the EUSSR to be influential in the world

They are going by rail to China and all points south from that line. With you shunning Russia and kicking the whole EU out of your Kingdom and NA becoming a land of fire and ice and South America being self sufficient and then some just who are you going to be making a lot of money off? Maglev with the bottom of the carriage being 10 ft above the height of the containers for the heavy loads (and charge the capacitors for the magnets) I assume a turbine on NG would be suitable as a power-plant for the bottom line and the power could be fed to the two rails while the engine is on that set of steel rails.
How fast could a UK design be if the fastest was a carriage that is suspended so the track is flat and speed and weigh can be swapped around infinitily and any corner at any speed still see the glass of beer stay on the table. What would change is how much you weigh when going around said corners. Germany is a design and manufacturing nation. She would setting for making some money from being at the start rather than stand on the sidelines looking at the UK putting out tenders for hemp sails for their 'fleet' of world conquest boats

and to secure global trade deals.

With who exactly and what products exactly if weapons are taken off the table?

Britain will, in fact, when she leaves the EU, be MORE influential than she is now within the EU.

I'm pretty sure EU contracts will be given to EU based companies and that isn't even mentioning the EU banks own you lock stock and barrel puppet-boy.

And Britain is a seafaring, maritime nation which managed to trade quite well globally for centuries before the EU came along.

The centuries you should be paying attention to are the ones in front of you.

 

[Machjo]

Instead of whining and whining and whining, why don't the Eurosceptics do something and leave the EU already. everyone's eyes and ears will be more at peace with an end to the whining.