National Day(s)of Reason in Canada

[Tecumsehsbones]

This is not true. Faith is certainty. The only "reasonable" position is agnosticism. "I don't know."

Nonsense. It is perfectly reasonable to say that something doesn't exist if there is no evidence of its existence. There is exactly as much evidence of the existence of the monotheistic Judeo-Christian God as there is of fairies, goblins, unicorns, gryphons, perpetual-motion machines, and every other bit of crack-brained wishful thinking people have ever come up with. Saying you know the latter five don't exist but don't know if the first does is merely bowing to social convention.

 

[darkbeaver]

God is a nondenominational force.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

God is a nondenominational force.

Near as I can tell God is wish fulfillment and a revenge fantasy.

 

[darkbeaver]

Near as I can tell God is wish fulfillment and a revenge fantasy.

You have the common practice and the reality of life mixed up. God is punishing you for your lack of reason.

God has found you in contempt.

 

[Twila]

So there is no confusion about the meaning of faith. I bolded the portion that relates to religion.

faith
[feyth] Spell Syllables
Examples Word Origin
noun
1.
confidence or trust in a person or thing:
faith in another's ability.
2.
belief that is not based on proof:
He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3.
belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion:
the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4.
belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.:
to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5.
a system of religious belief:
the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
6.
the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.:
Failure to appear would be breaking faith.
7.
the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.:

God is a nondenominational force.

Only for those who believe.

For an atheist, this statement means nothing. He is non existant. Things that don't exist have no power.

 

[Zipperfish]

Nonsense. It is perfectly reasonable to say that something doesn't exist if there is no evidence of its existence. There is exactly as much evidence of the existence of the monotheistic Judeo-Christian God as there is of fairies, goblins, unicorns, gryphons, perpetual-motion machines, and every other bit of crack-brained wishful thinking people have ever come up with. Saying you know the latter five don't exist but don't know if the first does is merely bowing to social convention.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that unicorns don't exist. Indeed, if our universe is infinite, they do exist. God presents a different problem because a unicorn's existence dosn't require that we re-write the fundamental laws of physics as we understand them. We all have beliefs that are on pretty thin ground when examined closely.

 

[Twila]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

I believe in Russel's teapot then.

 

[darkbeaver]

God and the fundemental laws of physics are as one.

 

[Sal]

I believe in Russel's teapot then.

will there be cake with the tea?

I like cake

 

[darkbeaver]

I'll have mine black thankyou.

 

[Twila]

will there be cake with the tea?

I like cake

lol. If you believe strongly enough...

I'll have mine black thankyou.

isn't this where someone shouts Racist?

Maybe I should do it?

what have you got against milk and sugar anyways?

 

[Sal]

be there shortly

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

For most purposes, it is. For example, an object dropped will accelerate toward the center of the earth at 9.8m/sec/sec. There is no evidence that there will ever be any other result. Because of this, I avoid being between the center of the earth and unsupported objects. If you believe in a "falling up" phenomenon, despite the utter absence of evidence, I encourage you to go with that belief and place yourself between unsupported objects and the center of the earth for what little remains of your life.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that unicorns don't exist. Indeed, if our universe is infinite, they do exist. God presents a different problem because a unicorn's existence dosn't require that we re-write the fundamental laws of physics as we understand them. We all have beliefs that are on pretty thin ground when examined closely.

Take off your shoe. Hold a hammer above your foot at chest height. Now let it go. I'm sure in our infinite universe it won't break your foot.

Have fun with that.

 

[darkbeaver]

Most strangely, the control of the lower physical, natural or brute forces by the mind or reason was the one central situation primarily and fundamentally dealt with in the sage tomes of antiquity. To effect that control in a perfect balance and harmony, and to train the reasoning intellect in the divine art of it, was the aim and end of the Arcane Philosophy.

Ideology in the Western world has endlessly vacillated back and forth between the cult of the inner spirit and engrossment in objective materialism. Ancient philosophy taught that the true path of evolutionary growth was to be trodden by an effort that united the forces of the spirit with those of the world, the lower disciplined by the higher.http://pc93.tripod.com/lostlght.htm

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Most strangely, the control of the lower physical, natural or brute forces by the mind or reason was the one central situation primarily and fundamentally dealt with in the sage tomes of antiquity. To effect that control in a perfect balance and harmony, and to train the reasoning intellect in the divine art of it, was the aim and end of the Arcane Philosophy.

Ideology in the Western world has endlessly vacillated back and forth between the cult of the inner spirit and engrossment in objective materialism. Ancient philosophy taught that the true path of evolutionary growth was to be trodden by an effort that united the forces of the spirit with those of the world, the lower disciplined by the higher.http://pc93.tripod.com/lostlght.htm

Ancient philosophy also taught that there are four elements: earth, air, fire, and water, and that disease is caused by an imbalance in the bodily humours.

 

[Zipperfish]

I believe in Russel's teapot then.

Well, I believe I'll have a cup of tea. Is that close? :lol:

Ancient philosophy also taught that there are four elements: earth, air, fire, and water, and that disease is caused by an imbalance in the bodily humours.

And if your humours were welll balanced you were happy and had a "sense of humour."

 

[darkbeaver]

Ancient philosophy also taught that there are four elements: earth, air, fire, and water, and that disease is caused by an imbalance in the bodily humours.

They did indeed. And correctly so. Of course I know you want the reasoning. The ancients went there as well. You have to eat of the fruit.

Well, I believe I'll have a cup of tea. Is that close? :lol:



And if your humours were welll balanced you were happy and had a "sense of humour."

And the best medicine is?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Appeal to antiquity is a recognised logical fallacy.

 

[Zipperfish]

For most purposes, it is. .

Agreed--as long as you draw the line between "preponderance of evidence" and "certainty." I have formed a belief, based on personal observations, that there are no unicorns on Earth. However I can't say with certainty--as a reasonable person--that they do not exist.

A reasonable person can make no claim to certainty.

Twila mentioned Bertrand Russel (his teapot actually...). Here's what Russel said on the subject of certainty:

I wanted certainty in the kind of way in which people want religious faith. I thought that certainty is more likely to be found in mathematics than elsewhere. But I discovered that many mathematical demonstrations, which my teachers wanted me to accept, were full of fallacies ... I was continually reminded of the fable about the elephant and the tortoise. Having constructed an elephant upon which the mathematical world could rest, I found the elephant tottering, and proceeded to construct a tortoise to keep the elephant from falling. But the tortoise was no more secure than the elephant, and after some twenty years of arduous toil, I came to the conclusion that there was nothing more that I could do in the way of making mathematical knowledge indubitable.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

I generally prefer physical masturbation to mental masturbation. It's equally productive and way more fun!