Britain lone holdout in new Europe deal

[Machjo]

The British Parliament - which is the largest parliament in the English-speaking world - comprises 650 MPs plus another 786 members of the House of Lords. The Canadian Parliament comprises 308 MPs and 105 senators.

Taking just the MPs into account, 650 + 308 = 958.

Of those 958 MPs, 650 would be British. Which means about 68% of the MPs would be British.

Agreed. Regardless whether the UK became a Canadian province or Canada a British one, it's pretty clear Britain alone would comprise more than 50% of Parliament easily!

 

[Blackleaf]

Agreed. Regardless whether the UK became a Canadian province or Canada a British one, it's pretty clear Britain alone would comprise more than 50% of Parliament easily!

And if Britain became a US state (which is not something I want) it would be, by a considerable distance, its biggest and most influential state.

 

[Machjo]

Britain's population is about twice that of Canada's. And, of course, of those universities which are ranked in the world's top ten almost every year, three of them are British (seven are American and none are Canadian). Britain also has four universities in the world's top twenty. Canada has one.

Frist off, the strength of a nation's population is not dependent on the education of its university graduates alone, but on that of the entire population. I was not saying that Britain's education was poor, so I don't know why you should have felt so defensive or targeted. i was merely saying in general terms that while a large population is an advantage, it is conditional on the entire population being educated. I'm sure you'd agree that this is a general universal rule, no?

 

[Niflmir]

Brussels, with all its needless red tape and bureaucracy, has a stranglehold on the British economy. No matter how well the British economy has performed in the almost 40 years that Britain has been in the EU, the chances are it would have grown even better had Britain not been in the EU. The EU does not help the British economy to grow. It hinders British economic growth.



Britain's population is about twice that of Canada's. And, of course, of those universities which are ranked in the world's top ten almost every year, three of them are British (seven are American and none are Canadian). Britain also has four universities in the world's top twenty. Canada has one.



Britain spends only 2.7% of its GDP on defence. It's hardly going to cripple the country's economy.




I see the euro as no longer being with us in the not-too-distant future. It is a doomed currency and Britain was right not to join it.



Rubbish. The pound has survived for over 1,000 years. The euro has been around for a mere ten years and is already doomed, with disastrous economic consequences for those countries stupid enough to adopt it (and I don't believe the doom-mongers who say that Britain's economy will suffer greatly once the euro collapses. Recent research has shown that if the euro collapses, as seems likely, after a short, sharp shock, the British economy will quickly bounce back and grow faster than it is now, and British exports - which are already at a record high - to countries like Germany will start booming).

Eurozone crisis: Death of the euro need not be a disaster | Mail Online



Absolute rubbish. The only country which has a voice in the euro's management is Germany. All those countries which were stupid enough to adopt the euro are not able to set interest rates to suit their own economies (as Britain, outside the euro, is thankfully able to do) but instead have their interest rates set by the European Central Bank - interest rates which favour Germany and Germany only.

It would make no difference to Canada whether it joined the pound or the Euro - it would still have its currency controlled by a foreign nation, by either Britain (Bank of England) or Germany (ECB).




The British Parliament - which is the largest parliament in the English-speaking world - comprises 650 MPs plus another 786 members of the House of Lords. The Canadian Parliament comprises 308 MPs and 105 senators.

Taking just the MPs into account, 650 + 308 = 958.

Of those 958 MPs, 650 would be British. Which means about 68% of the MPs would be British.



It's not Britain's fault you have the world's most popular Head of State on your currency. It's Canada's.



I fail to see how a currency which has been around far longer than the euro (which really IS a goofy currency) and the Canadian dollar, which is the fourth most traded currency in the foreign exchange market (the third most traded once the euro collapses) and the third most held reserve currency in global reserves (the second most held in global reserves once the euro collapses) can, in any way, be described as goofy.



No, it doesn't.



Why should a bank in Germany control the BRITISH pound? What do you you propose next? The Bank of England controlling the Swedish krona? The only country bank which should control the British pound is the Bank of England. If countries want to join the pound they will have to put up with it being controlled by the Bank of England.



Three-quarters of a billion? Of the 27 EU member states, only 17 of them have the euro. The other 10 have kept their own currencies. And those 17 members states have a combined population of almost 332 million.



It can't be considered as such a union. It isn't even a country.

t

The EU's economy isn't growing. It is in recession and it is the world's most sclereotic and snail-like economic region. As for the Eurozone (the 17 of the 27 EU nations which use the euro) its economic growth is forecast to trail way behind that of Britain over the next few years.

It is kind of difficult to have a dialog with you when you attack sentences and don't address the point I was making. Do you know what a strawman is?

The basic point was that Britain gains out of free trade by not having their exports and imports taxed.

Then I responded to your suggestion that Europe join the pound instead of England joining the Euro. But the invitation to join the Euro put all members on equal footing: nobody gets to control the money supply. That is what I meant by letting the ECB control it. Nobody cares where the ECB is, and your point that it is in Germany is just a red herring.

 

[Blackleaf]

The basic point was that Britain gains out of free trade by not having their exports and imports taxed.

Many people tend to exaggerate the benefits Britain gets out of trading with the EU.

Apart from the fact that British export figures to the EU are exaggerated due to the Rotterdam Effect, these people either don't realise - or conveniently don't mention - that the EU is, in fact, the ONLY part of the world that Britain has a trade deficit with. Britain has a trade deficit with the EU but its trade with the rest of the world is very much in balance. That means that most of Britain's trade with the EU is IMPORTS from the EU to Britain. Therefore, the EU sells more to Britain than Britain sells to the EU.
This also means that, in this respect, the EU needs Britain more than Britain needs the EU. In 2009, our trade deficit — the excess of what we bought over what we sold — in manufactured goods with the EU was a shade under £35 billion. So, due to the fact that the EU sells more to Britain than Britain does to the EU, it would be very much in the EU's interests to enact a free trade agreement with Britain were it to leave the EU.

Better than that such a free trade agreement would not be a matter of conjecture. Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty requires the EU to make a trade arrangement with any nation deciding to leave it.

So, taking this into account, Britain can leave the EU and its trade with it will not be affected.

Also, a Tory MEP, David Campbell-Bannerman (a descendant of Henry Campbell-Bannerman, Britain's Liberal Prime Minister of 1905 to 1908 ) , has written a pamphlet entitled 'The Ultimate Plan B: A Positive Vision Of An Independent Britain Outside The European Union.'

Amongst his many claims in the pamphlet that Britain would be better outside the EU is the fact that, with the ascent of China, India and Brazil, Britain would do well to leave a trading bloc whose share of world GDP is forecast to fall to 15 per cent in 2020, down from 36 per cent in 1980.

Read more: The cynical lie that leaving the EU would destroy Britain | Mail Online

Then I responded to your suggestion that Europe join the pound instead of England joining the Euro. But the invitation to join the Euro put all members on equal footing: nobody gets to control the money supply. That is what I meant by letting the ECB control it. Nobody cares where the ECB is, and your point that it is in Germany is just a red herring.

Countries are NOT on an equal footing in the euro. The one-size-fits-all policy - in which the ECB sets the same interest rates for all euro countries - has turned out to be a complete and utter disaster (as the British tried to warn ten years ago). This policy means that each euro country cannot set its own interest rates to suit its economy. Instead each country has its interest rates set by the ECB. Therefore there will always be at least one euro country with interest rates which are detrimental to its economy. Not only that, but the ECB regularly sets interest rates which suit Germany, and Germany alone (if you don't believe me do some research). So the Germans often have interest rates which are beneficial to their economy even if these interest rates are detrimental to, say, the Greek economy. So there is no equal footing in the eurozone.

 

[Spade]

I think I'll vote for John A.