"3rd Party" booted out of Attawapiskat

[Machjo]

Someone somewhere has something to hide. Whatever it is I bet it cost taxpayers a bundle.

Simple solution:

Rescind the treaties, give them their land back, and stop giving them money. Heck, they'd probably make much more money from royalties from the resources sold than from any government handout of a portion of that money.

The posts mostly debate how much money to give the band. Again, just give them their land back and forget about the money. The resources from the land will likely be worth more than any money the government can throw at them.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

The government has to deal with this mess, not a third party scapegoat.

Are you kidding me? A third party is the best way to deal with this. For all parties involved.

 

[mentalfloss]

Are you kidding me? A third party is the best way to deal with this. For all parties involved.

A third party is already dealing with this.

They're called: RED CROSS.

 

[TenPenny]

A third party is already dealing with this.

They're called: RED CROSS.

Well, then, let them deal with it, and stop your whining about how the gov't is ducking their responsibility.

People are still stuck on the Zamboni red herring?

Look at the funding.

The simple fact is that they did not receive enough funding to put them in the same situation as any other Canadian citizen would under similar circumstances.

I didn't receive any funding at all for my house, and not only that, but I have to do all my own maintenance, I can't punch holes in the walls and then piss and moan because the magic fairies don't come by to fix it.

 

[mentalfloss]

Well, then, let them deal with it, and stop your whining about how the gov't is ducking their responsibility.

Red cross steps in when there is a state of emergency.

The reason why there is a state of emergency is because the government hasn't provided enough funding or accounted for that funded properly.

It's already been shown that the "$90 million" was not enough.

The government is ducking their responsibility.

I didn't receive any funding at all for my house, and not only that, but I have to do all my own maintenance, I can't punch holes in the walls and then piss and moan because the magic fairies don't come by to fix it.

Guilty until proven innocent?

 

[TenPenny]

Red cross steps in when there is a state of emergency.

The reason why there is a state of emergency is because the government hasn't provided enough funding or accounted for that funded properly.

It's already been shown that the "$90 million" was not enough.

The government is ducking their responsibility.

The government HAS BEEN 'ducking their responsibility' for years, and not just the current government.

And don't forget to include the chief and band council in that, they are the front line government in this case.
Mind you, we're not supposed to ask them to be accountable, that's not fair, apparently.

 

[mentalfloss]

The government HAS BEEN 'ducking their responsibility' for years, and not just the current government.

Of course!

The Conservatives are at the helm now though, and they have the majority. If they're feeling the sour grapes then they can step down and someone else in government can take over.

Whoever does it though, the government is legally obligated to work with First Nations as per the Indian Act.

 

[captain morgan]

People are still stuck on the Zamboni red herring?

Look at the funding.

The simple fact is that they did not receive enough funding to put them in the same situation as any other Canadian citizen would under similar circumstances.

Analyzing the use of funds is just as important as the amount of funding.

 

[mentalfloss]

Analyzing the use of funds is just as important as the amount of funding.

There already is an analysis.

 

[captain morgan]

There already is an analysis.

You ought to really study the doc (http://www.attawapiskat.org/wp-content/uploads/2011-Consolidated-Schedule-of-Programs.pdf)

.. And let's not get hung up on the $90MM figure. That is the amount of funding since 2006. This figure does not include the historical funding prior to that time frame.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

A third party is already dealing with this.

They're called: RED CROSS.

The Red Cross is there because the people of this community are being ripped off. The third party audit is to determine who is ripping them off. God forbid we might find out that the Feds were actually providing enough funding, but that it was being stolen from the people it was intended for.

Give your head a shake man.

 

[mentalfloss]

You ought to really study the doc (http://www.attawapiskat.org/wp-content/uploads/2011-Consolidated-Schedule-of-Programs.pdf)

.. And let's not get hung up on the $90MM figure. That is the amount of funding since 2006. This figure does not include the historical funding prior to that time frame.

The Red Cross is there because the people of this community are being ripped off. The third party audit is to determine who is ripping them off. God forbid we might find out that the Feds were actually providing enough funding, but that it was being stolen from the people it was intended for.

Give your head a shake man.

Give your head a shake man and stop reading sun spin.


Many people seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that First Nations have self-governance and run themselves freely. This is far from the truth, but given that most Canadians are familiar with the municipal model, the confusion is actually understandable. It isn’t as though Canada does a very good job of teaching people about the Indian Act.

Section 61(1)(a-k) of the Indian Act declares that: “With the consent of the council of a band, the Minister may authorize and direct the expenditure of capital moneys of the band” for various purposes.

What this means is that Ministerial approval is actually a requirement before any capital expenditures can occur on reserve. In practice, a Band will generally pass a Band Council Resolution (BCR) authorising a certain expenditure (say on housing), and that BCR must be forwarded to INAC for approval.

That’s right. Most First Nations have to get permission before they can spend money. That is the opposite of ‘doing whatever they want’ with the money. Bands are micromanaged to an extent unseen in nearly any other context that does not involve a minor or someone who lacks capacity due to mental disability.

Any claims that INAC has no control over what Bands spend their money on is false.

I would hope by now you’d ask the following question:

If INAC has to approve spending, why is Harper so confused?

There is a tendency to believe that our government officials do things in a way that makes sense. This, despite the fact that most of us don’t actually believe this to be true. We want to believe. I know I do.

So upon learning that the federal government is the one in charge of providing services to First Nations that are provided to non-natives by the province, we might assume that the provision of these services are administered in a comparable manner.

Not so. And it actually makes sense why not, when you think about it for a moment. Have you ever seen a federal hospital, for example? No, because hospitals are built, maintained, and staffed by the provinces. Thus, when a First Nations person needs to access health-care, they cannot access federal infrastructure. They must access provincial infrastructure and have the feds rather than the province pick up the tab.

How Ottawa spent $90 million at Attawapiskat | Full Comment | National Post

 

[TenPenny]

Under 'housing', 400,000 was spent on 'administration', and 1.3 million on wages and benefits.

They don't seem to be getting much for their money.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

Give your head a shake man and stop reading sun spin.


Many people seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that First Nations have self-governance and run themselves freely. This is far from the truth, but given that most Canadians are familiar with the municipal model, the confusion is actually understandable. It isn’t as though Canada does a very good job of teaching people about the Indian Act.

Section 61(1)(a-k) of the Indian Act declares that: “With the consent of the council of a band, the Minister may authorize and direct the expenditure of capital moneys of the band” for various purposes.

What this means is that Ministerial approval is actually a requirement before any capital expenditures can occur on reserve. In practice, a Band will generally pass a Band Council Resolution (BCR) authorising a certain expenditure (say on housing), and that BCR must be forwarded to INAC for approval.

That’s right. Most First Nations have to get permission before they can spend money. That is the opposite of ‘doing whatever they want’ with the money. Bands are micromanaged to an extent unseen in nearly any other context that does not involve a minor or someone who lacks capacity due to mental disability.

How Ottawa spent $90 million at Attawapiskat | Full Comment | National Post

Again, if the government and the bureaucrats are at fault it will come out in a third party audit. Not in opinion editorial. Not on a web forum. A third party audit is required. It seems that some are more frightened of the truth than others.

 

[mentalfloss]

Again, if the government and the bureaucrats are at fault it will come out in a third party audit. Not in opinion editorial. Not on a web forum. A third party audit is required. It seems that some are more frightened of the truth than others.

How does a third party audit supercede the friggin Indian Act?

 

[TenPenny]

Section 61(1)(a-k) of the Indian Act declares that: “With the consent of the council of a band, the Minister may authorize and direct the expenditure of capital moneys of the band” for various purposes.

What this means is that Ministerial approval is actually a requirement before any capital expenditures can occur on reserve. In practice, a Band will generally pass a Band Council Resolution (BCR) authorising a certain expenditure (say on housing), and that BCR must be forwarded to INAC for approval.

That’s right. Most First Nations have to get permission before they can spend money.

Read what you've written again, until you understand it.

That refers to capital moneys and expenditures. Yes, that would apply to new housing. But it doesn't apply to maintenance or the like.

How does a third party audit supercede the friggin Indian Act?

I don't think you understand the concept of an audit.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

How does a third party audit supercede the friggin Indian Act?

If I give you money for housing and you buy a snowmobile... Ahh forget it! It's like talking to Petros when he doesn't want to listen, but just wants to argue..:lol:

 

[mentalfloss]

Read what you've written again, until you understand it.

That refers to capital moneys and expenditures. Yes, that would apply to new housing. But it doesn't apply to maintenance or the like.

Of course.

The capital expenditures are the biggest expense and they barely received enough to cover those. You don't need an audit to figure that out.

If I give you money for housing and you buy a snowmobile... Ahh forget it! It's like talking to Petros when he doesn't want to listen, but just wants to argue..:lol:

Your metaphor doesn't work.

If the government gave First Nations money to go toward a house, they know it's going toward a house. They are obligated to be the ones accountable for that capital expenditure as per the Indian Act.

 

[TenPenny]

Of course.

The capital expenditures are the biggest expense and they barely received enough to cover those. You don't need an audit to figure that out.

No, you don't need an audit to figure that out. You need an audit to figure out what they're doing with the money they do get, like 1.3 million in wages and benefits under 'housing', if they don't build any fuking houses.

 

[mentalfloss]

No, you don't need an audit to figure that out. You need an audit to figure out what they're doing with the money they do get, like 1.3 million in wages and benefits under 'housing', if they don't build any fuking houses.

Everyone knows that no one is purely innocent in this mess, but let's put it into context. The priority money was accounted for and approved by the feds. It just wasn't enough sustain this community.

An important fact that many commentators forget (or are unaware of) is that section 91(24) of the Constitution Act of 1867 gives the Federal Crown exclusive powers over “Indians, and Lands reserved for the Indians.”

You see, for non-natives, the provinces are in charge of funding things like education, health-care, social services and so on. For example, the Province of Ontario allocated $10,730 in education funding per non-native pupil in the 2010-2011 fiscal year. For most First Nations, particularly those on reserve, the federal government through INAC is responsible for providing funds for native education.

How is this relevant?

It helps explain why the entire $90 million was not allocated to the construction of new houses. That $90 million includes funding for things like:

• education per pupil
• education infrastructure (maintenan*ce, repair, teacher salaries, etc)
• health-care per patient
• health-care, infrastruc*ture (clinics, staff, access to services outside the community in the absence of facilities on reserve)
• social services (facilitie*s, staff, etc)
• infrastruc*ture (maintenan*ce and constructi*on)
• a myriad of other services