Catholics blame Woodstock for abuse!!

[captain morgan]

unFreakin' believable! That has to be the biggest cop out of all time.

C'mon Cliffy. You knew that it was only a matter of time before this excuse was used.

"I vas only followink orders"
"I never inhaled"
"Allah made me do it"
"There are weapons of mass destruction"

It'd be kinda like discrimination if you didn't allow everyone to get in on the act.

 

[PoliticalNick]

While I get what you're saying, you can't dismiss both issues as factors. Preists don't exist outside of society, they come from within our communities. So if our communities are seeing an upsurge in sexualization, and a freeing up of our sense of sexual restrictions, not only the healthy among us are going to be impacted by it. Pedophiles will too. To try to pretend it's not a factor at all is, well, a bit of flawed thiking. But, considering what follows, and the fact that you're admitting to putting on blinders in order to maintain your assumptions, I guess it makes sense why you're coming to the conclusion you are.

I sure can dismiss a lame excuse for pedophilia when I hear one. Would you accept these excuses from a guy who raped you??? Priests don't exist outside our society but are supposed to be at the top of it when it comes to morality and compassion and resposibility. Their epic failure and the failure of the church itself to report incidents to police and deny anything ever happened is enough for me. I maintain no assumptions, I have thousands of factual cases that have seen the inside of a courtroom to back up that child sexual abuse was rampant in the catholic church for a long, long time and the church leadership did nothing but hide and deny while moving the culprits to another parish with a fresh crop of victims.

 

[TenPenny]

and the church leadership did nothing but hide and deny while moving the culprits to another parish with a fresh crop of victims.

But that's okay; all the offenders have to do is to take personal responsibility by confessing in the booth, and all is right with the world.

 

[PoliticalNick]

But that's okay; all the offenders have to do is to take personal responsibility by confessing in the booth, and all is right with the world.

ROFLMAO!!! :lol::lol:

 

[karrie]

I sure can dismiss a lame excuse for pedophilia when I hear one. Would you accept these excuses from a guy who raped you??? Priests don't exist outside our society but are supposed to be at the top of it when it comes to morality and compassion and resposibility. Their epic failure and the failure of the church itself to report incidents to police and deny anything ever happened is enough for me. I maintain no assumptions, I have thousands of factual cases that have seen the inside of a courtroom to back up that child sexual abuse was rampant in the catholic church for a long, long time and the church leadership did nothing but hide and deny while moving the culprits to another parish with a fresh crop of victims.

There is no excuse on an individual level for abuse, period, so don't even go there. Don't try to bring my rape into it. It's childish and cruel.

Getting back to the topic at hand, of institutionalized abuse... part of the responsibility of the church, along with appropriate reporting, etc., is to find out why, and if there is something going within itself that is, literally, causing pedophilia. So it helped fund a study. If it hadn't, I'd be pissed frankly. The fact of the matter is that they are already addressing the things you're discussing, reporting, etc. That's all a no-brainer, and is being tackled. So, why the hatred over them going deeper and looking to see if there is, literally, something more that they need to address? You do know that they screen their priests heavily to try to weed this kind of thing out ahead of time, and it would be helpful if they were in possession of more warning signs.

Also, what priests are 'supposed' to be, is frankly, moot. They're humans the same as everyone else, right down to having the same percentage of pedophiles as the general population. They smoke the same, drink the same, have affairs the same, and abuse people, all the same. The sooner people give their heads a shake and realize that, the sooner more children will be protected.

But that's okay; all the offenders have to do is to take personal responsibility by confessing in the booth, and all is right with the world.

You've been to confession an awful lot hey? You do realize that on top of telling you to say your prayers, priests can tell you that in order to be forgiven, you need to come clean with the local authorities. Why on earth people get this impression that priests will give forgiveness for ANYthing, is beyond me.

 

[PoliticalNick]

There is no excuse on an individual level for abuse, period, so don't even go there. Don't try to bring my rape into it. It's childish and cruel.

I did not know you were a victim, my point was meant as a hypothetical. Sorry for any offense.

Getting back to the topic at hand, of institutionalized abuse... part of the responsibility of the church, along with appropriate reporting, etc., is to find out why, and if there is something going within itself that is, literally, causing pedophilia. So it helped fund a study. If it hadn't, I'd be pissed frankly. The fact of the matter is that they are already addressing the things you're discussing, reporting, etc. That's all a no-brainer, and is being tackled. So, why the hatred over them going deeper and looking to see if there is, literally, something more that they need to address? You do know that they screen their priests heavily to try to weed this kind of thing out ahead of time, and it would be helpful if they were in possession of more warning signs.

Yeah they adressed reporting alright. They released a statement recently that said church officials were to report it "where required by law". So their position would seem to be that if there is no law regarding mandatory reporting then it is ok not to report it...pathetic at best.

Also, what priests are 'supposed' to be, is frankly, moot. They're humans the same as everyone else, right down to having the same percentage of pedophiles as the general population. They smoke the same, drink the same, have affairs the same, and abuse people, all the same. The sooner people give their heads a shake and realize that, the sooner more children will be protected.

It is not moot, they hold themselves as above normal people and therefore are responsible to be such. I would also say that from the evidence in the public domain there is a much higher than average instance of abuse within the priesthood than in regular people. Whether this is because of the lifesyle or something else doesn't matter to me. It was allowed and covered up by the organization and they are now still trying to minimize the issue and make excuses.

 

[TenPenny]

You've been to confession an awful lot hey? You do realize that on top of telling you to say your prayers, priests can tell you that in order to be forgiven, you need to come clean with the local authorities. Why on earth people get this impression that priests will give forgiveness for ANYthing, is beyond me.

You don't recognize sarcasm very well these days. Try going to Bishop Lahey, I'm sure he can help.

 

[karrie]

It is not moot, they hold themselves as above normal people and therefore are responsible to be such. I would also say that from the evidence in the public domain there is a much higher than average instance of abuse within the priesthood than in regular people. Whether this is because of the lifesyle or something else doesn't matter to me. It was allowed and covered up by the organization and they are now still trying to minimize the issue and make excuses.

I've never met a priest who I viewed as 'above' me, nor one who presented himself to be such.

You don't recognize sarcasm very well these days. Try going to Bishop Lahey, I'm sure he can help.

So, your posts on the issue were saying that the Church DOESN'T present confession as a way of absolving just any sin? Because, no, your posts didn't come off as sarcastic, they came off as earnestly implying that confession means you can abuse kids all you want and feel 'forgiven' for it.

 

[TenPenny]

So, your posts on the issue were saying that the Church DOESN'T present confession as a way of absolving just any sin? Because, no, your posts didn't come off as sarcastic, they came off as earnestly implying that confession means you can abuse kids all you want and feel 'forgiven' for it.

No, my posts were meant to say that I have little respect for the organization as a whole, because from the top to the bottom it has demonstrated a complete and utter failure to deal with the reality that is apparent to the world, that there are many, many, many cases of priests and bishops who are pedophiles, and appear to work under the protection of the Church.

As such, the concept of 'confession' is a laughable joke, and should be treated as such. Which is what I do. It's a joke, and if some take solace from that act, good for them.

 

[PoliticalNick]

I've never met a priest who I viewed as 'above' me, nor one who presented himself to be such.

I have met many who believe they are 'closer to god than I' and have more resistance to temptation and who frankly hold themselves as an example for all in the community to follow. Of course there are many in their congregations like this too. I consider them all as lacking the reason and logic to realize religion is a crutch to put meaning into our banal, meaningless existance.

So, your posts on the issue were saying that the Church DOESN'T present confession as a way of absolving just any sin? Because, no, your posts didn't come off as sarcastic, they came off as earnestly implying that confession means you can abuse kids all you want and feel 'forgiven' for it.

From what I see of catholics you don't even need to confess, just hide it from the authorities and deny deny deny!

 

[karrie]

No, my posts were meant to say that I have little respect for the organization as a whole, because from the top to the bottom it has demonstrated a complete and utter failure to deal with the reality that is apparent to the world, that there are many, many, many cases of priests and bishops who are pedophiles, and appear to work under the protection of the Church.

As such, the concept of 'confession' is a laughable joke, and should be treated as such. Which is what I do. It's a joke, and if some take solace from that act, good for them.

Well then why would you tell me you were just being sarcastic?

my point stands.

 

[gopher]

unFreakin' believable! That has to be the biggest cop out of all time.

Sexual deviancy in the church has been there almost since the beginning. It corresponds to sexual deviancy in society in general, and aristocracy in particular (since many of the upper echelons of the clergy came from the aristocracy) for the past 2 thousand years.

Good post. Plutarch, Cervantes, and Rabelais all wrote of moral turpitude in the church long before the 1960s. It was no secret then or now.

 

[gerryh]

The difference between now, then, or even the 60's, is that the Catholic Church is now admitting to the problems, and taking steps to not only clean house but to try and ensure that it doesn't happen anymore.

 

[PoliticalNick]

The difference between now, then, or even the 60's, is that the Catholic Church is now admitting to the problems, and taking steps to not only clean house but to try and ensure that it doesn't happen anymore.

I will give them credit for finally admitting it and doing some things to attempt prevention. That cannot be denied.

They do still seem to be trying to minimize it and offer lame excuses for the past. And I do have a problem with the statement released the other day about reporting all incidents 'where required by law', which implies to me that if it is not required under the law they will not or might not report it.

 

[gerryh]

I will give them credit for finally admitting it and doing some things to attempt prevention. That cannot be denied.

They do still seem to be trying to minimize it and offer lame excuses for the past. And I do have a problem with the statement released the other day about reporting all incidents 'where required by law', which implies to me that if it is not required under the law they will not or might not report it.

Ok, you want to tell me where it would NOT be "required by law"?

 

[PoliticalNick]

Ok, you want to tell me where it would NOT be "required by law"?

You want to tell me where it is.

 

[gerryh]

You want to tell me where it is.

as far as I know, Canada, the U.s., Europe. I would think pretty much any where.

 

[PoliticalNick]

as far as I know, Canada, the U.s., Europe. I would think pretty much any where.

I know a lot of western countries have laws to make reporting mandatory from teachers and medical practitioners but I don't know if they extend to the clergy. When it comes to the rest of the world (africa, south & central america, asia) I don't know. The point I was getting at was should they have not just said 'all incidents will be reported period', instead of leaving that little bit of wiggle room.

 

[gerryh]

I know a lot of western countries have laws to make reporting mandatory from teachers and medical practitioners but I don't know if they extend to the clergy. When it comes to the rest of the world (africa, south & central america, asia) I don't know. The point I was getting at was should they have not just said 'all incidents will be reported period', instead of leaving that little bit of wiggle room.

Here's the thing, if it's not illegal in a particular jurisdiction, who exactly do you expect the Church to report to?

 

[damngrumpy]

The Catholics need to have some power in their church with a vote even for the Pope
himself. They need to allow priests and nuns to marry and the power of the cardinals
needs to be limited. Those who are in power now need to resign and step away from
the process, and be judged by what they did and didn't do.
There needs to be an entire house cleaning from top to bottom and to bring trust,
transparency, ethics, and honesty back to the Vatican, something that has not been
there for centuries. And they need to start selling off their assets to pay for the disgusting
behaviour they have engaged