Your honest assessment of the Canadian Alliance and Steven Harper

[Omicron]

The second you draw a comparison between anybody and the Nazis, your credibility goes down faster than a crack whoore on Saturday night.

Why?

Ever read Mein Kampf, in particular the chapter that gets into how to do propaganda?

You'd be spooked by the parallels between it and some of the methods used in this campaign by the Reformacons.

Mind you, half the advertizing coming out of Madison Ave. looks like it was made by ad execs trained with methods from that book.

Hmm...

Did you know the Volkswagen Beetle is based on a pencil sketch Hitler tossed at Volkswagen when he ordered them to start building cheep cars for the common man?

Did you know that Interpol was first assembled by the Nazis and was simply adopted by the west at the end of WW-II?

What about the US interstate system, based on the autobahns?

Oh, and then there's the rockets...

 

[TenPenny]

Ah, the good old days.

Did you know the Volkswagen Beetle is based on a pencil sketch Hitler tossed at Volkswagen when he ordered them to start building cheep cars for the common man?

Actually, it's not. It was a ripoff of the Czech Tatra.

 

[Cannuck]

You'd be spooked by the parallels between it and some of the methods used in this campaign by the Reformacons.

Nope...but I do find your need to use words like "Reformacons" hilarious.

 

[Omicron]

Actually, it's not. It was a ripoff of the Czech Tatra.

Are you sure? I've seen copies of the sketches AH sent to Volkswagen when he ordered the company to start building cars the "common man" could afford.

Unless you mean AH himself ripped the design from the Tatra.

 

[Cannuck]

Looks like a bug to me

 

[TenPenny]

Are you sure? I've seen copies of the sketches AH sent to Volkswagen when he ordered the company to start building cars the "common man" could afford.

Unless you mean AH himself ripped the design from the Tatra.

There was a lawsuit about it, and VW lost.

According to the book Car Wars, Adolf Hitler called the Tatra 'the kind of car I want for my highways'.[2] Ferdinand Porsche later admitted 'to have looked over Ledwinka's shoulders' while designing the Volkswagen.[2]
Tatra sued Porsche for damages, and Porsche was willing to settle. However, Hitler canceled this, saying 'he would settle the matter.' [3] When Czechoslovakia was invaded by the Nazis, the production of the T97 was immediately halted, and the lawsuit dropped. After the war, Tatra reopened the lawsuit against Volkswagen. In 1967, the matter was settled when Volkswagen paid Tatra 3,000,000 Deutsche Mark in compensation.

 

[Omicron]

I do find your need to use words like "Reformacons" hilarious.

Why? The term "Conservative party" is too misleading, and doesn't describe the nature of the beast which is the right-wing in Canada today. I tried the term Refocon, but people said it made the party sound like a bunch of stoners, so I stretched it out to Reformacon and people said they liked the way it implies how the Reformers are a bunch of checker-suited used-car con men, yet also describes the taxonomic relation of Reform to the PCs, plus they liked the way it triggers haunting feelings ala Captain Scarlet Mysterons in older people, and the image of Transformers - a bunch of robots disguising themselves as nice, ordinary cars - in younger folk.

Too many people confuse the Conservative party with the Progressive Conservative party. The Conservative party is the Reform party, which *used* to have some fair points about it when Peston was in charge, but it got hijacked.

I always wonder wonder why Joe Clark didn't rekindle a party more akin to what the PCs were about.

There was a lawsuit about it, and VW lost.

According to the book Car Wars, Adolf Hitler called the Tatra 'the kind of car I want for my highways'.[2] Ferdinand Porsche later admitted 'to have looked over Ledwinka's shoulders' while designing the Volkswagen.[2]
Tatra sued Porsche for damages, and Porsche was willing to settle. However, Hitler canceled this, saying 'he would settle the matter.' [3] When Czechoslovakia was invaded by the Nazis, the production of the T97 was immediately halted, and the lawsuit dropped. After the war, Tatra reopened the lawsuit against Volkswagen. In 1967, the matter was settled when Volkswagen paid Tatra 3,000,000 Deutsche Mark in compensation.

Very interesting!

But... how come there are sketches, ostensibly scribbled by AH himself (who described himself as an artist, but actually he wasn't all that great) that look like a bug sitting in the archives, which they say he handed to VW and told them to make it like that?

Here's the sketch that was supposed to have come from AH. The nose isn't as big as the Tatra (maybe because AH thought the Tatra looked too Semitic):

 

[Cannuck]

Why? The term "Conservative party" is too misleading...

Your justifications don't make it any less hilarious.

 

[Omicron]

Your justifications don't make it any less hilarious.

Well good, laugh away. That means it's triggering a reaction, one way or the other.

Besides, it's *supposed* to be funny... funny in the way where people can laugh at the reference while still getting the message, because... well, you know, when opening people's minds around an ugly truth, if you can't get them to laugh, they'll cry.

 

[earth_as_one]

Harper Government Statements and Actions

Statement:

When Ralph Goodale tried to tax Income Trusts they showed us where they stood, they showed us their attitude towards raiding Seniors hard earned assets and a Conservative government will never allow either of these parties to get away with that.
Stephen Harper - Wikiquote

Action:
Flaherty imposes new tax on income trusts - Business - CBC News

Statement

December 15, 2005
A Conservative government would pass legislation to elect
senators, set fixed election dates for the House of Commons and
prevent "star" candidates from being parachuted into ridings over the
objections of grassroots members, Stephen Harper promised yesterday.

Harper names 5 to Senate - Canada - CBC News
Tories' cronyism rampant, critics say - thestar.com

You can read many more examples of how the Harper government says one thing then acts differently here:
The Canadian Political Scene: Conservative Contradictions; Only the Tip of the Iceberg

I agree with Harper's critics that Harper cannot be trusted to do as he says. If he gets a majority he will shaft most Canadians and transfer wealth to his rich and powerful backers. Harper has no morals when it comes to supporting war crimes and dictators:

When Egyptians protested against their corrupt dictatorship, Harper followed Israel's lead and sided with the dictator
Siddiqui: Harper follows Israeli line on Egypt - thestar.com

The Iraq war:

...Harper stood in the House of Commons in January 2003, to remind MPs that as early as the previous October, "I noted that there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein operates programs to produce weapons of mass destruction. Experience confirms this. British, Canadian and American intelligence leaves no doubt on the matter."

Therefore, Canada must help depose Saddam Hussein. Failure to do so, Harper said, "is not fitting with the greatness of our history or with our standing as a nation."


Later in March, the Bloc Québécois provoked a Commons vote on a motion "that this House call upon the government not to participate in the military intervention" in Iraq. As fate would have it, the vote came on March 20. The 50 MPs who voted nay -- who did not want Canada to stay out of Iraq -- included almost every Alliance MP present, including Stephen Harper.


Later that day the U.S. and the United Kingdom finally began their bombing campaign against Baghdad. Six days later, Harper told the Commons: "We should be there with our allies when it counts against Saddam Hussein."


Two days after that, he published a letter in the Wall Street Journal. "Jean Chrétien has left Canada outside this multilateral coalition of nations," he wrote. "This is a serious mistake."


Months later, Harper was still furious. He told this magazine in August 2003: "Canada remains alienated from its allies, shut out of the reconstruction process to some degree, unable to influence events. There is no upside to the position Canada took."...

Stephen Harper's twisted walk back on Iraq | Macleans.ca - Columnists


Does anyone else agree with Harper that there is no upside to staying out of the Iraq war?

 

[Durry]

Why would you go back and rehash old statements anyways ?
Things change, people gain experiences and in a free country people have the right to change their minds.

There is often very little to be gained by looking at the past, more is gained by analyzing the present and deciding what is best for the future!

 

[TenPenny]

Why would you go back and rehash old statements anyways ?
Things change, people gain experiences and in a free country people have the right to change their minds.

There is often very little to be gained by looking at the past, more is gained by analyzing the present and deciding what is best for the future!

I agree. Based on the present, the Conservative party under Harper is incapable of running the government without racking up huge deficits. Therefore, I've decided that what's best for the future is a Liberal government.

 

[cranky]

We can barely mine for information on any given topic if the entire journalistic community has a grand total of five questions per day.

The media loves 5 second sound bytes, how many do they really need?

 

[Durry]

I agree. Based on the present, the Conservative party under Harper is incapable of running the government without racking up huge deficits. Therefore, I've decided that what's best for the future is a Liberal government.

Well you obviously have not been listening to the Liberal platform.

The Libs do not have a hope in hell of winning anyways!!
Generally, the well informed people can see right thru him!!

 

[Omicron]

Why would you go back and rehash old statements anyways ?

Well duh... why do you think?

To show Harper's a bloody two faced hypocrite is why. Preston Manning he is *not*. Preston had integrity.

There is often very little to be gained by looking at the past,

You're nuts! The whole *point* of analyzing history is to avoid mistakes made in the past.

more is gained by analyzing the present and deciding what is best for the future!

Oh fer-sure. Let's raise kids by turning them loose each generation and never teach them anything learned from the past.

Each generation will start with stone tools and have themselves up to quantum physics by the time they're in their 40's.

Well you obviously have not been listening to the Liberal platform.

Yes I have... what's wrong with it? It's very much like the Conservative platform in terms of staying the course, except he's going to drop the unnecessary jets and jails, and spend the money on family support.

Plus the Libs will implement a proper GI Bill. What's wrong with that?

Generally, the well informed people can see right thru him

Oh really. What are they seeing on the outside, and what do they see when they "look through" him?

Have you actually read his book?

I bet not.

 

[Durry]

Well duh... why do you think?

To show he's a bloody two faced hypocrite is why.

You're nuts! The whole *point* of analyzing history is to avoid mistakes made in the past.

Oh fer-sure. Let's raise kids by turning them loose each generation and never teach them anything learned from the past.


I bet not.

Oh, you mean like the idiot PM who sai when he's elected the GST is "gone" !

Yeah, your right, we should keep reminding these idiots of this blatant and outright lie !!!,, idiot !!

 

[cranky]

Well duh... why do you think?

To show Harper's a bloody two faced hypocrite is why. Preston Manning he is *not*. Preston had integrity.

You're nuts! The whole *point* of analyzing history is to avoid mistakes made in the past.

Oh fer-sure. Let's raise kids by turning them loose each generation and never teach them anything learned from the past.

Each generation will start with stone tools and have themselves up to quantum physics by the time they're in their 40's.



Yes I have... what's wrong with it? It's very much like the Conservative platform in terms of staying the course, except he's going to drop the unnecessary jets and jails, and spend the money on family support.

Plus the Libs will implement a proper GI Bill. What's wrong with that?

Oh really. What are they seeing on the outside, and what do they see when they "look through" him?

Have you actually read his book?

I bet not.

There are differences between being stuck in the past and analysing history to influence forward policy

 

[TenPenny]

Well you obviously have not been listening to the Liberal platform.

The Libs do not have a hope in hell of winning anyways!!
Generally, the well informed people can see right thru him!!

If you support the Conservatives, you must not believe in fiscal responsibility. Or ethics in government. Or respect for the voters.

 

[Durry]

Or respect for the voters.

Respect for the voters????
The ones that do not respect the voters are the ones that want to form a coalition!!!
Man, are you some dumbo or what ???

 

[Omicron]

Oh, you mean like the idiot PM who sai when he's elected the GST is "gone" !

Are you talking about this?

----------------------------------
"From an economic point of view, it wouldn't be my first choice," Bill Robson, senior vice-president of the CD Howe Institute, told CBC Newsworld on Thursday.
"If you want tax cuts that are going to promote work, going to promote saving, help us invest more and raise living standards in the future, the GST is not the tax you would go after."

Robson said it would be better to cut personal income taxes.

Read more: CBC News - Canada - Economists dump on Harper's GST-lowering plan
​

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In any case, I have a question that no Reformacon - oops, I mean Canadian Alliance member - will give me strait answer on, and it's this:

Harpo keeps saying he needs a majority to get some things done.

That means there are policies the Reformacons want to push through which makes all other parties - representing a wide cross section of the majority of Canadians - gag.

It means if the Canadian Parliamentary system didn't have that "first-past-the-post" flaw causing it to not represent a factual demographic will of the people (else Greens would have 8-9 seats in Parliament) then there's no way Harpo's Reformacons would *ever* get their sketchy policies past the majority of Canadians.

What are the specific policies Harpo wants to pass which he knows the majority of Canadians would choke on, and which he must therefore rely on a flaw in the parliamentary system as practiced by Canada to cram down the nation's throat?