A fifth of European Union will be Muslim by 2050

[SirJosephPorter]

They may be majority Islam? No, no, no, they WILL be majority Islam.

That is your opinion, Extrafire, you are making many questionable assumptions in arriving at that conclusion.

And they most definitely will not be a tolerant, progressive society.

Again, your opinion and pure speculation. Nobody knows what Europe will be like in 50 or 100 years. What is more, none of us will be alive to see it, so people like you can proclaim with perfect assurance, perfect authority, that they know what Europe will be like in 50 or 100 years. After all, there is no way somebody like you can be held accountable.

As I said, it is pure speculation. My guess would be that Europe will continue pretty much as it is today, with increased Muslim population, say around 15 or 20%.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth." - Omar AhmadCo-founder of the Council on American-Islamic Relations

Extrafire, there are also Christian clerics in USA who want USA to adopt Judeo Christian rule, who want the government to rule according to the diktats of the Bible, so what is your point?

Such philosophy (whether coming from a Muslim or a Christian) calls for vigilance, not for prejudice, hatred or panic.

On the flip side, there are also plenty of moderate Muslims, moderate clerics. It is the extremists who get all the press. When Canada was having a debate about gay marriage, a Muslim organization (Admittedly a small one) came out in support of gay marriage.

It is wrong to characterize a group of people by what some members say.

 

[ironsides]

They may be majority Islam? No, no, no, they WILL be majority Islam.

That is your opinion, Extrafire, you are making many questionable assumptions in arriving at that conclusion.

And they most definitely will not be a tolerant, progressive society.

Again, your opinion and pure speculation. Nobody knows what Europe will be like in 50 or 100 years. What is more, none of us will be alive to see it, so people like you can proclaim with perfect assurance, perfect authority, that they know what Europe will be like in 50 or 100 years. After all, there is no way somebody like you can be held accountable.

As I said, it is pure speculation. My guess would be that Europe will continue pretty much as it is today, with increased Muslim population, say around 15 or 20%.

Good luck with that, look what they are doing with 5 or less % of the population. They are pretty handy terrorizing majorities. Look how fast Spain caved in to them.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Good luck with that, look what they are doing with 5 or less % of the population. They are pretty handy terrorizing majorities. Look how fast Spain caved in to them.

Who are they terrorizing, ironsides? Are they terrorizing USA? Certainly they are not terrorizing Canada. We know quite a few Muslims, they are just like any ordinary citizens of Canada, interested in living their life in peace.

My wife routinely works with a Muslim surgeon (from Pakistan), she tells me he is one of the nicest men she has known (besides being a great surgeon).

As I said, it is only the extremists who get all the press. Tell me, do you know any Muslims? My guess is that you (or Extrafire for that matter) don’t. We are always afraid of the unknown.

 

[ironsides]

In answer to your question, yes I do know a few including my best friend (two houses away from me now) who I met in Iraq. Your right most that I met were very nice, it was the occasional one who blew up a market place on purpose killing innocents. Those few are the ones who will upset Europe. They don't wear uniforms and look just like everyone else. We have been very lucky here so far since 9/11.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

In answer to your question, yes I do know a few including my best friend (two houses away from me now) who I met in Iraq. Your right most that I met were very nice, it was the occasional one who blew up a market place on purpose killing innocents. Those few are the ones who will upset Europe. They don't wear uniforms and look just like everyone else. We have been very lucky here so far since 9/11.

Very lucky? I thought Republicans gave Bush the credit for keeping you safe.

 

[ironsides]

Nope, the military did. If you only knew how many times we would agree with one thing and do what was best.

 

[Extrafire]

I Cannot see this being a peaceful transition. At some point Europe will go to war over this, it will start over there. There will be clampdowns and expulsions over this, their empires are coming back to bit them. There is no way they will modify Sharia law to suite our laws and no way we will stand by and allow Sharia law to become the law of the land.

No the Europeans won't go to war. They'll capitulate like Spain did after one bombing. Back in 1914 most of Europe went to war for absolutely no reason. Part of the fallout from that war was WWII. After all that I guess they'd had enough and they built a peaceful prosperous co-operative western Europe that eventually spread to the eastern countries too. But now they seem to have lost the will to live, they seem to have a hard time going to war for any reason. I can't blame them, when you have it so good, who wants to throw it all away in a bloody conflict. I recall reading a column from a European author a couple years ago (I can't find it now) who stated that Europe would soon succumb to Islam, and he bemoaned the fact that he knew how to enjoy his freedoms, he just didn't know how to fight for them.

No, the Europeans will just roll over and wet themselves when push comes to shove.

 

[Extrafire]

They may be majority Islam? No, no, no, they WILL be majority Islam.

That is your opinion, Extrafire, you are making many questionable assumptions in arriving at that conclusion..

Mine and a lot of others as well, including a lot of Muslims. We warn about it, they brag about it. And the only assumption I'm making is that the demographic progression will continue on as it is now. In case you didn't read one of my earlier posts on this thread, traditional Europeans are reproducing at half their replacement rate, and Muslim Europeans are reproducing at double their replacement rate. That results in a muslim majority in two generations. Do the math.

And they most definitely will not be a tolerant, progressive society.

Again, your opinion and pure speculation. Nobody knows what Europe will be like in 50 or 100 years. What is more, none of us will be alive to see it, so people like you can proclaim with perfect assurance, perfect authority, that they know what Europe will be like in 50 or 100 years. After all, there is no way somebody like you can be held accountable.

As I said, it is pure speculation. My guess would be that Europe will continue pretty much as it is today, with increased Muslim population, say around 15 or 20%.

Did you see that last video I posted? The blonde antelope? That's you.

 

[Extrafire]

Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth." - Omar AhmadCo-founder of the Council on American-Islamic Relations

Extrafire, there are also Christian clerics in USA who want USA to adopt Judeo Christian rule, who want the government to rule according to the diktats of the Bible, so what is your point?

My point is that the Muslims are actually capable of doing it, and are intent on doing it, while those christian clerics are only wishful thinking.

Such philosophy (whether coming from a Muslim or a Christian) calls for vigilance, not for prejudice, hatred or panic.

Vigilance is exactly what I'm suggesting, but the response from those of your ilk is more like; Ignore it, everything will be fine, it's not going to happen. Vigilance requires that you actually recognize what's coming at you and are willing to do something about it. That's not prejudice, hatred or panic, it's dealing with reality.

On the flip side, there are also plenty of moderate Muslims, moderate clerics. It is the extremists who get all the press. When Canada was having a debate about gay marriage, a Muslim organization (Admittedly a small one) came out in support of gay marriage.

It is wrong to characterize a group of people by what some members say.

I believe I did mention earlier that it's the extremists who get all the press. And indeed, the vast majority are moderates responsible citizens who just want to live their lives in peace. But the problem is the extremists control the agenda when their numbers get big enough. Estimates of the percentage of radicals range from 1% to 10%. Let's be conservative and say it's only 1%. In two generations the muslim population will be about 200 million, which means 2 million radicals. Can you imagine the effect they could have? And it won't just be the traditional europeans they'll attack, it will also be their fellow Muslims.

And I didn't characterize a group of people by what some of their members say. I didn't characterize them at all. I just pointed out what Eurabia is likely to be like.

 

[Machjo]

I Cannot see this being a peaceful transition. At some point Europe will go to war over this, it will start over there. There will be clampdowns and expulsions over this, their empires are coming back to bit them. There is no way they will modify Sharia law to suite our laws and no way we will stand by and allow Sharia law to become the law of the land.

You ma have forgotten that Moorish Spain granted freedom of religion to all its subjects. In fact, in the Dark Ages, many Jews and unorthodox Christians escaped to Spain for protection, and some of the wealthy class sent their children to Spain for education. Is;am has had a golden age of its own once. Just as the Chrstian Faith has had one renaissance already, can you be sure Islam won't have one of its own in the future?

 

[thatone]

But is Saudi Arabia a model Muslim state?

"Let there be no compulsion in Religion."

Qur'an 2:256 (Rodwell's transation)

Just as Israel isn't necessarily the model Jewish state, or the US the model Christian state, so Saudi Arabia is not necessarily the model Muslim state. Just as Jews criticize Israel, and Christians criticize the US, so Muslims also criticize Saudi Arabia.

Don't know where you pulled these facts from.

 

[Machjo]

Don't know where you pulled these facts from.

I'm assuming you're referring to the highlighted text.

True Torah Jews Against Zionism

As for Christians chriticizing the US, there are plenty on the religious right that do, but I'm sure some on the religious left would criticize US foreign policy.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

In two generations the Muslim population will be about 200 million, which means 2 million radicals. Can you imagine the effect they could have?

Extrafire, that is the wildest exaggeration, fear mongering of the worst kind. What evidence do you have for such an asinine assertion? To extrapolate from the present birth rate is simplistic in the extreme. I think you have been reading the extreme right websites a bit too much.

 

[Extrafire]

In two generations the Muslim population will be about 200 million, which means 2 million radicals. Can you imagine the effect they could have?

Extrafire, that is the wildest exaggeration, fear mongering of the worst kind. What evidence do you have for such an asinine assertion? To extrapolate from the present birth rate is simplistic in the extreme. I think you have been reading the extreme right websites a bit too much.

Is basic math too much for you to comprehend? I laid it all out. Go back and find it, and if you can, show me where the math is wrong.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Is basic math too much for you to comprehend? I laid it all out. Go back and find it, and if you can, show me where the math is wrong.

Math is just a set of numbers, Extrafire. By itself, math means nothing. The assumptions made when doing the calculations are crucial, and they probably are unrealistic. For instance, what birth rate did he use? Evidence indicates that second and third generation immigrants have significantly lower birthrate than the first generation. Did he take that into account? He probably didn’t.

What he probably did was make such assumptions as to obtain Muslim population projections as big as possible, to support his already preconceived view that Islam is evil and that Muslims are the spawn of the Devil.

 

[ironsides]

You ma have forgotten that Moorish Spain granted freedom of religion to all its subjects. In fact, in the Dark Ages, many Jews and unorthodox Christians escaped to Spain for protection, and some of the wealthy class sent their children to Spain for education. Is;am has had a golden age of its own once. Just as the Chrstian Faith has had one renaissance already, can you be sure Islam won't have one of its own in the future?

That will not happen in Europe today, Spain who knows what they will do today though.

 

[Machjo]

Just a commment about Spain capitulating. I'm assuming that it's referring to Spain pulling out of NATO actions in the Middle East after the bombings a few years back. If I rememebr correctly, Spain had been discussing the possibility of this before the bombings, and also clarified that the bombings had no impact on their decision.

 

[ironsides]

Your right, the bombings just made them decide faster. That is what makes a difference is between Spain and the U.S.. The U.S. usually does not cave-in to world opinion, or terrorism against it.

 

[Machjo]

Your right, the bombings just made them decide faster. That is what makes a difference is between Spain and the U.S.. The U.S. usually does not cave-in to world opinion, or terrorism against it.

So you admit then that the bombing was not the determining facotr?

Besides, it wouldn't make sense anyway. After all, if Spain wanted to leave because it wasn't their war, the bombing would have made it more so. If anything, I woudl think the bombing would likely have made Spain more hesitant to leave.