How you guys think about us-korea fta?

jellyfish16

Time Out
Nov 30, 2010
109
0
16
U.S-KOREA FTA is now in the final stage to be ratified by both countries' council but several opposition parties in korea and civic groups impedes it's ratification. As obama focused on in his new year speech,it makes a loss for both of parties to delay it. Luckily, car industries and council in korea accepted additional negotiations and they agreed to fast ratification. i heard, there are several good points to make a contract with one of the emerging nations-korea. the best merit is that more than 7 million jobs could be increased and also we can established a bridgehead to enter into Northeast Asia market such as Japan,China. some economists higly appreaciated those things in FTA. Anyway, I hope U.S-KOREA FTA will be ratified as soon as possible to be profitable for both countries because it's final negotiations already used a lot of time and have been quite delayed until now. FTA need to make outcomes in U.S & Korea market economy.

 

Highball

Council Member
Jan 28, 2010
1,170
1
38
I don't expect to see anything positive come out of this agreement either fore the US or Canada. Look at the actual results of the NAFTA and CAFTA agreements to date. Both nations have been put in some bad trade situations. Automobiles is just one commodity. Look at the electronics and clothing sectors too.
 

jellyfish16

Time Out
Nov 30, 2010
109
0
16
thank you guys for reply. I agree with you guys at some points. as dumpthemonarchy said, Korea need to open economy market to other countries and to be globalization. as highball said, we can't jump to conclusion of this FTA just seeing one product's competitiveness. but almost ratification is done, so I just hope this FTA start good to bring up profits.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,337
113
Vancouver Island
So far as I can see this will just export even more manufacturing jobs off shore or people here had best be getting accustomed to working for $20/day. If we keep exporting real jobs soon the only rich left in North America will be government workers.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
95
48
USA
So far as I can see this will just export even more manufacturing jobs off shore or people here had best be getting accustomed to working for $20/day. If we keep exporting real jobs soon the only rich left in North America will be government workers.

Yup... just another way to send jobs overseas.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
I don't expect to see anything positive come out of this agreement either fore the US or Canada. Look at the actual results of the NAFTA and CAFTA agreements to date. Both nations have been put in some bad trade situations. Automobiles is just one commodity. Look at the electronics and clothing sectors too.

What? Are you saying North Koreans can produce higher-quality products more efficiently and so at a better price?

Well then, how about we improve our education system to ensure our workforce has the skills to compete. Protecting our model-T industry is not the way to advance. Free trade helps:

1. clear out our model-T industries so as to allow more space for our new industries to grow.
2. make more obvious any flaws there may be in our economy such as poor labour skills, etc. which might spur governments to increase spending on education.
3. Force our industries to become more efficient.

Free trade is painful because it forces us to do just that. Once the transition is over though, both sides benefit.

I'm not a US citizen, so it's not up to me to decide. But if it were up to me, I'd be all for it.

So far as I can see this will just export even more manufacturing jobs off shore or people here had best be getting accustomed to working for $20/day. If we keep exporting real jobs soon the only rich left in North America will be government workers.

You're way exaggerating. Let's suppose that in fact all jobs moved to South Korea. All of a sudden the US dollar could collapse, the South Korean won would rise, and suddenly South Korean exports wouldn't be so attractive anymore while US exports would be dirt cheap. Also, with the consumer being free to buy the product that best suits him, it forces both Americans and South Koreans to focus on their relative advantages, thus benefiting both countries in the end.

Consider too that this increased efficiency also helps to combat inflation in both countries.

The only losers are those less efficient industries that shouldn't be in the market in the first place.

We must consider too though that for the most part the South Korean economy is a more corporatist than capitalist one, meaning that the government encourages collaboration between labour, management, lenders and other players in the economy, this collaboration ensuring common interest and goals.

Of course different forms of corporatism exist. In South Korea, it's mostly influenced by Confucian teachings about community unity and harmony. This collaborative culture also naturally encourages the government and the private sector to develop a more highly educated workforce to ensure all members of the community can participate in its development.

I can see how free trade between a corporatist economy and one based on a capitalist economy can cause problems. After all, though on the surface they appear the same in that they are both based on a predominantly private sector, the former is based on collaboration between various sectors of the economy (whether between labour and management, different companies, etc. all working together on common goals), whereas ours and the US' are based on compeition, whether between labour and management, different companies, etc.

Needless to say, an economic system that does not waste precious resources on competition but rather on developing efficiency through collaboration is bound to be far more efficient.

The question then is, do we isolate themselves from them, or do we engage them so as to allow it to reveal our relative strengths and weaknesses ans so improve on both sides.

Free trade has impoverished American workers.

And given better deals to American consumers. Are we all all workers and consumers in one way or another?

Yup... just another way to send jobs overseas.

What ever happened to freedom?

This agreement reminds me of NAFTA.

And was it all that bad? The inefficient companies sunk, giving way to the more efficient ones to grow more quickly.

The only real draw back to free trade that I see is that the pressure to make industry more efficient means that for the government to maintain full employment, it must then take much more responsibility to ensure all workers and the unemployed are provided with an opportunity to upgrade their skills to keep up with the faster pace of change that comes with free trade. Think of quality universal compulsory education as the free-trade safety net. As long as that net is in place to retrain those who lose their jobs as a result of free trade, they will go back into the workforce performing more efficiently and thus able to provide quality products at a lower price. Granted free trade does not help much to push salaries up. But we must also look at the bigger picture. It's likely to push costs down faster than protectionism would push salaries up. Looking at it that way, it's still better in terms of how far your salary will take you.
 

Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
5,336
66
48
51
Das Kapital
What? Are you saying North Koreans can produce higher-quality products more efficiently and so at a better price?

Well then, how about we improve our education system to ensure our workforce has the skills to compete. Protecting our model-T industry is not the way to advance. Free trade helps:

1. clear out our model-T industries so as to allow more space for our new industries to grow.
2. make more obvious any flaws there may be in our economy such as poor labour skills, etc. which might spur governments to increase spending on education.
3. Force our industries to become more efficient.

Free trade is painful because it forces us to do just that. Once the transition is over though, both sides benefit.

I'm not a US citizen, so it's not up to me to decide. But if it were up to me, I'd be all for it.

It's about who has the absoute advantage, and although I'm not sure what the average income in South Korea is, I'm guessing that, at the end of the day, after all imputs are calculated, South Korea is the winner. The fact is, no amount of education will change that.
 
Last edited:

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
It's about who has the absoute advantage, and although I'm not sure what the average income in South Korea is, I'm guessing that, at the end of the day, after all imputs are calculated, South Korea is the winner. The fact is, no amount of education will change that.

If SK has the absolute advantage, then it wouldn't take long for the currencies to adjust as Canadians rush to buy South Korean products. That advantage would be but temporary. Once the currencies are natrually readjusted, then there would also be the advantage of pressure for both sides to become as efficient as possible, not to mention possible collaboration between US and SK companies too.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
32,493
210
63
In the bush near Sudbury
People who work in the call centres that high-paying - and bartered away - industry was replaced with aren't going to rush to buy anyone's product once the grocery bill, rent and utilities are paid.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
People who work in the call centres that high-paying - and bartered away - industry was replaced with aren't going to rush to buy anyone's product once the grocery bill, rent and utilities are paid.

Well if they won't be buying anything, then how would SK benefit?

Following the same premise, wealthier provinces ought to have trade barriers against poorer provinces, right?
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
You're the one writing all the rules....

What rules?

It's been long established that under free trade, even when one country has an absolute advantage over another in all respects, that the relationship will still be mutually beneficial in that it still allows each country to exploit its relative advantage. Even if one country has an absolute advantage over the other, the other will still have a relative advantage over the first in one area or another, with each specializing in its relative advantage to benefit each other mutually. It's not different from free trade between provinces, or between cities for that matter. The relationship is always mutually beneficial overall.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
32,493
210
63
In the bush near Sudbury
Ever heard of Canada's lumber industry? Caterpillar? Free Trade really helped those jobs stay in Canada didn't it? How does losing a good paying job for a minimum wage one benefit anyone?
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
Ever heard of Canada's lumber industry? Caterpillar? Free Trade really helped those jobs stay in Canada didn't it? How does losing a good paying job for a minimum wage one benefit anyone?

If we'd lost those industries, it's because clearly they were not sufficiently efficient. As for the minimum wage jobs, yes I fully agree with government, especially in an open economy, to ensure all Canadians get the education they need to raise their salaries and thus their taxable income. The government has certainly failed on that front. Without the highest quality education available to all workers, yes, we're bound to slip. That however is a matter apart from free trade. Free trade merely accelerates the process of economic development.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
32,493
210
63
In the bush near Sudbury
All the education in the world isn't going to get McDonalds, Wendy's, Hortons or the call centres to pay the same sort of wages traded-away industry did. You just get a lot of well-educated and bored people.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,337
113
Vancouver Island
If SK has the absolute advantage, then it wouldn't take long for the currencies to adjust as Canadians rush to buy South Korean products. That advantage would be but temporary. Once the currencies are natrually readjusted, then there would also be the advantage of pressure for both sides to become as efficient as possible, not to mention possible collaboration between US and SK companies too.

Thats fine for those of you that get a cheque from the government every month but those of us that have to work for a living would soon have no jobs to make money to buy anything with. Nevermind paying the mortgage and food. The only reason NAFTA works as well as it does is because Canada and the US have roughly the same standard of living. Try and buy a tire made in North America. THe last pair of lower priced snow tires I bought were made in Thailand but they were only about $40 cheaper than Michelins.
Even with NAFTA we are getting screwed over with lumber. Many mills in B.C. have shut down and the logs are going to Washington where they have built some hightec mills that pay between$12-14/hr. with **** for bennies. That is about 1/3 of our labour rate in a union mill. Now we all know that you cannot feed a family and pay a mortgage on $14/hr in BC. And you want us to compete with people that work for a bowl of rice a day?