"Insulted" by Israel, U.S. scrambles to save talks


earth_as_one
#1
Quote:

Israel's relationship with the United States, a defining feature of the troubled Middle East, was under severe strain as diplomats scrambled on Saturday to save newborn U.S.-brokered peace talks with the Palestinians.

Barack Obama
A senior U.S. official predicted "a dicey period here in the next couple days to a couple of weeks" as Palestinians demanded the reversal of a new Israeli settlement plan and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's coalition, which includes pro-settler parties, reacts to unusually blunt criticism from Washington.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton called Israel's behavior "insulting" after it approved 1,600 new homes last week at a settlement in the Jerusalem area on the very day Vice President Joe Biden was there to set a seal on relaunched negotiations....

Insulted by Israel, U.S. scrambles to save talks | Reuters (external - login to view)

Usually Israeli settlement building flies under the radar, but this story even made the cbc:
Quote:

Biden condemns new Israeli construction
Talks marred by Israeli announcement to build in east Jerusalem

CBC News - World - Biden condemns new Israeli construction

Related

Quote:

...Instead of accepting Netanyahu's partial apology and letting bygones be bygones, Obama issued a stern warning to the Israeli prime minister and is now demanding that he take "specific actions" to show he is "committed" to the U.S.-Israel relationship and to the peace process itself.

Washington did not reveal the contents of the ultimatum or the list of demands reportedly presented to Netanyahu. Those conditions, however, could undermine the prime minister's coalition ties to hard-line right-wing parties like Yisrael Beiteinu and Shas, as well as provoke strong criticism from within his own Likud faction. In case Netanyahu still fails to understand the situation, a U.S. official told Reuters yesterday that the Israeli leader's rightist coalition leaves him in a "perilous" situation...

www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1156251.html (external - login to view)

Legally, Israeli annexation of Palestinian land for settlement building falls into the category of war crimes and crimes against humanity depending on scale.

Quote:

Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts (Protocol I), 8 June 1977.
...
4. In addition to the grave breaches defined in the preceding paragraphs and in the Conventions, the following shall be regarded as grave breaches of this Protocol, when committed wilfully and in violation of the Conventions or the Protocol:

(a) the transfer by the occupying Power of parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies, or the deportation or transfer of all or parts of the population of the occupied territory within or outside this territory, in violation of Article 49 of the Fourth Convention;

www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/FULL/470?OpenDocument (external - login to view)

Israel's leaders knew population transfer was illegal before they started.
Quote:

March 11, 2006
Israelis Were Warned on Illegality of Settlements in 1967 Memo
by Donald Macintyre in Jerusalem

Israeli ministers were secretly warned just after the Six-Day War in 1967 that any policy of building settlements across occupied Palestinian territories violated international law.

A "top secret" memo by the Foreign Ministry's then legal counsel said that would "contravene the explicit provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention". Growth of Jewish settlements over the next three decades followed....

...leading to an Israeli population of more than 240,00 in the West Bank today...
Israelis Were Warned on Illegality of Settlements in 1967 Memo (external - login to view)

Judge Israeli colony building scale and growth for yourself:

Quote:

24 August 2009
...In the 42 years since Israel captured the land, its control has grown apace. There are 149 settlements, together with at least another 100 "outposts" — smaller settlements unauthorised even by the Israeli government. Nearly 500,000 Jewish settlers now live in East Jerusalem and the West Bank...

How settlements in the West Bank are creating a new reality, brick by brick | World news | The Guardian (external - login to view)

West Bank Map link
File:Westbankjan06.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Forced displacement and settlement building in the West Bank is a root cause of conflict.

The Canadian government's position on Israel makes me sad.

Quote:

January 05, 2009

On Israel's 60th anniversary last April, Prime Minister Stephen Harper promised Canada's "unshakable" support for Israel.

At the time, this struck me as odd. It would be understandable for a prime minister to offer Canada's "unshakable" support for the principles of democracy, the rule of law, human rights, etc. But for a country? A country is led by a government, and a government is always fallible. Why would Canada promise its unqualified support for any country?

Such unqualified support is particularly problematic when the country is locked in a bitter struggle with millions of people whose land it has held under military occupation for more than forty years.

The problematic nature of Harper's promise has taken on a new dimension with Israel's intense bombing of the Gaza Strip...

www.lindamcquaig.com/Columns/...umn.cfm?REF=90 (external - login to view)

Related recent UN Report regarding Gaza
United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza conflict (external - login to view)
Last edited by earth_as_one; Mar 14th, 2010 at 03:40 AM..
 
Liberalman
#2
Obama's final solution plan
 
CDNBear
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

Legally, Israeli annexation of Palestinian land for settlement building falls into the category of war crimes and crimes against humanity depending on scale.

Legally, they captured that land in a war they didn't start. Legally, under international treaty, they own it.
Quote:

Israel's leaders knew population transfer was illegal before they started.
Judge Israeli colony building scale and growth for yourself:

Again, as much as I hate to agree with you. When they move the original inhabitants out, they are in breach of international treaty. But, in many cases, they are simply building on open land.

Quote:

Forced displacement and settlement building in the West Bank is a root cause of conflict.

No it's not!

Quote:

The Canadian government's position on Israel makes me sad.

Probably not as sad as many Canadians would be knowing they have someone that supports neo Nazi ideology in on their soil.

Quote:

Related recent UN Report regarding Gaza
United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza conflict (external - login to view)

A recent document, so one sided, so convoluted, so incomplete, so obtuse, so full of holes, so full of BS, that it has been summarily dismissed, by anyone who has actually read it with critical thought.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#4
So Israel is building new apartment buildings.....in Israel.

the HORROR!!!
 
MHz
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

So Israel is building new apartment buildings.....in Israel.

the HORROR!!!

Not in Israel, in occupied territory, right after saying settlement expansion would be halted, in Israeli double-speak (same language used in any 'treaty') it means we will build 500 units rather than 503 units. You know the territory they gained in a pre-emptive war.



Basically a continuation of this sort of activity.


 
earth_as_one
#6
This isn't just a few new apartments.

Quote:

... In the West Bank, in 2009, OCHA field teams recorded the Israeli authorities’ demolition of a total of 225 Palestinian-owned structures - including 92 homes - in Area C and East Jerusalem, resulting in the displacement of 515 Palestinians, over half of whom are children. Though not displaced, a further 504, including 303 children, were otherwise affected (e.g. source of livelihood destroyed, etc.). Furthermore, an estimated 60,000 Palestinians in Jerusalem alone are at risk of displacement, due to the possible of demolition of their homes by the Israeli authorities; in Area C, there are over 3,000 outstanding demolition orders that can be executed at any time. In addition, East Jerusalem residents increasingly face the risk of displacement as a result of eviction due to Israeli settler activity.”
Badil, 30 September 2009, p.13
"The demolition of Palestinian-owned homes and displacement have been a regular feature of Israel’s occupation of the OPT. Between 1967 and the beginning of 2009, Israel has demolished over 24,100 Palestinian-owned homes and other structures in occupied West Bank, East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, resulting in the internal displacement of more than 128,700 Palestinians within the OPT since 1967. More than 3,000 Palestinian-owned structures in the West Bank have pending demolition orders, which can be immediately executed without forewarning resulting in new waves of ...

Quote has been trimmed
Israel's latest forced eviction and land grab wouldn't have made the news if Israel had waited for Biden to leave before announcing it. . Even when it makes the news, callous people are still able to belittle this war crime and crime against humanity, pretending like Colpy, that the people affected don't exist.

Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

So Israel is building new apartment buildings.....in Israel.

the HORROR!!!

Colpy can't see the oppressed victims or hear their cries for justice. In his viewpoint these land grabs are just harmless apartment buildings we should ignore. But people are affected. As a result of Israeli land grabs, people loose their homes and livelihoods.

BTW, no one is firing rockets at Israel from the West Bank. These people have peace, but they have no freedom, no rights and they suffer ethnic cleansing. If this happened to you, would you fight back or wait for the international community to uphold international law and justice? This has been going on for 43 years now and most of the West Bank is no longer accessible to the people born there.

For a moment, put yourself in their situation:

Quote:

The day the bulldozers came...


Vegetable crops and irrigation network being uprooted by an Israeli army bulldozer in Jiftlik, Jordan Valley, 11 March 2008.
© Amnesty International



27 October 2009
West Bank farmer Mahmoud al-'Alam won't forget the day Israeli army bulldozers cut off his water supply... and destroyed his livelihood...

...On 4 June 2009, the Israeli army destroyed the homes and livestock pens of 18
Palestinian families in Ras al-Ahmar, a hamlet in the Jordan Valley area of the West Bank.

More than 130 people were affected, many of them children. Crucially, the soldiers
confiscated the water tank, tractor and trailer used by the villagers to bring in water. They were left without shelter or a water supply at the hottest time of the year...

...In another village, a rainwater harvesting cistern belonging to Palestinian villagers was destroyed by the Israeli army under the pretext that it was built without a permit. Permits for water projects have to be obtained from the Israeli authorities but are rarely granted to Palestinians.

In recent years the homes of Palestinians living in the Jordan Valley have been repeatedly destroyed and their water tankers confiscated.

Each time, the homes – tents and simple shacks made of metal and plastic sheets – are rebuilt. Because of the villagers’ determination to remain on their land despite extremely harsh living conditions, the Israeli army has increasingly restricted their access to water as a way of forcing them to abandon the area.

In’am Bisharat, a mother of seven from the village of Hadidiya, told Amnesty International: “We live in the harshest conditions, without water, electricity or any services.

"The lack of water is the biggest problem. The men spend most of the day…[going] to get water and they can’t always bring it. But we have no choice. We need a little bit of water to survive and to keep the sheep alive. Without water there is no life.

"The [Israeli] army has cut us off from everywhere…We don’t choose to live like this; we would also like to have beautiful homes and gardens and farms, but these privileges are only for the Israeli settlers… we are not even allowed basic services.”

The lack of water has already forced many Palestinians to leave the Jordan Valley and the survival of the communities is increasingly threatened. In Beit Ula, Mahmoud al-'Alam's livelihood is similarly at risk.

"It is very painful for me every time to come here and see the destruction; everything we worked for is gone. Why would anyone want to do this? What good can come from [it]?” he asks.
The day the bulldozers came... | Amnesty International (external - login to view)

Amnesty International 2009 Annual Report
Quote:

... In the West Bank, including in East Jerusalem, Israeli forces demolished scores of Palestinian homes, forcibly evicting families and leaving hundreds of people homeless. The targeted homes lacked building permits, which were systematically denied to Palestinians. At the same time, the authorities sharply increased the expansion of Israeli settlements on illegally confiscated Palestinian land, in violation of international law....

Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories | Amnesty International Report 2009 (external - login to view)

This is ethnic cleansing and Apartheid.

Canada should not unshakably support war crimes and crimes against humanity.
Last edited by earth_as_one; Mar 14th, 2010 at 12:05 PM..
 
Just the Facts
Free Thinker
#7
Israeli apartheid at work. The world outraged by the building of new homes because some might be inhabited by Jews. No, that's not racist.

If any part of Jerusalem is occupied territory, it's occupied by Arabs. Jerusalem is, always has been, and always will be Jewish.
 
earth_as_one
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

...Probably not as sad as many Canadians would be knowing they have someone that supports neo Nazi ideology in on their soil....

CB's slanderous accusation against me has two purposes.

1) Stifle criticism of Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity.

2) Change the subject to where I have to defend myself from his baseless accusations.

I'll address his smears against me once. I intend to ignore any further posts by CB, CC's resident forum stalker and troll.

>>>

I have no problem condemning Nazi injustice, oppression, war crimes and crimes against humanity.

I have no problem condemning injustice, oppression, war crimes and crimes against humanity whenever or wherever they occur.

If this was the 1930's, I'm confident I'd be raising awareness of Nazi atrocities just like I am raising awareness of Israeli atrocities now. Nazi war crimes and crimes against humanity occurred 65 + years ago. The time to do something about Nazi atrocities was before and during the time they happened, not 65 years after the fact.

Today, Israel forcefully removes people from their homes, in order to purify the land of inferior people, just like the Nazis did during the 1930's. It remains to be seen if Israel will go as far as the Nazis did in the 1940's and start exterminating people. Gaza and parts of the West Bank today resemble concentration camps and ghettos created by the Nazis during the 1930's.

What's going on in Gaza today indicates that Israel's leaders consider Palestinians to be subhuman. They have demonstrated a callous and reckless disregard for innocent civilians just like the Nazis did in the 1930's.

I realize that's just my opinion, but people can read these reports and come to their own conclusions.

Justice Goldstone's UN Fact Finding Mission in Gaza:
United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza conflict (external - login to view)

Amnesty International report on Gaza:
Israel/Gaza: Operation "Cast Lead": 22 days of death and destruction | Amnesty International (external - login to view)

Unlike CB, I don't support injustice, oppression, war crimes and crimes against humanity as detailed in the above reports. I also don't try to dismiss or belittle reports that identify war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Most Canadians are well informed about Palestinian militant war crimes as detailed in the above reports. But they know little to nothing about the Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity also detailed in the above reports. Since the Harper government "unshakably" supports Israel, Canadians should read the above reports and decide if they agree with the Harper government.

I am not intimidated by CB's smear against me. People can make up their own minds about whose ideology is more compassionate and whose ideology more closely resembles support for Nazi war crimes and crimes against humanity. Threats or stalking in violation of forum rules will be reported to the moderators.
Last edited by earth_as_one; Mar 14th, 2010 at 01:18 PM..
 
Colpy
Conservative
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

Not in Israel, in occupied territory, right after saying settlement expansion would be halted, in Israeli double-speak (same language used in any 'treaty') it means we will build 500 units rather than 503 units. You know the territory they gained in a pre-emptive war.



Basically a continuation of this sort of activity.

,

Israel annexed east Jerusalem 40 Years ago. Deal with it,

Israel did NOT pre-emptively strike Jordan.....Israel hoped Jordan would stay out of it....they refused.

Please spare me the inanities of UN resolutions and international law.......I, like the rest of the sane world, don't care.
 
Avro
No Party Affiliation
#10
.....and the extremists win.

More blood will be spilled now I fear.
 
earth_as_one
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by Just the FactsView Post

Israeli apartheid at work. The world outraged by the building of new homes because some might be inhabited by Jews. No, that's not racist.

If any part of Jerusalem is occupied territory, it's occupied by Arabs. Jerusalem is, always has been, and always will be Jewish.

A racist is someone who discriminates based on differences between people.

Racist regimes classify their people according to some criteria and award rights based on their differences.

Israel is a racist regime, because they have three classifications of people. Jewish Israelis have full rights. Non-Jewish Israelis have partial rights. Non-citizen Palestinians have no rights.

If these Jewish homes were on the Israeli side of the 1967 border, they would be legal. But since they are built on land acquired by conflict and illegally ethnically cleansed of people with no rights in order to provide housing for only Jewish Israelis with rights, they are illegal and meet the definition of war crimes and Apartheid.

This war crime has being going on for 43 years now. Its scale and duration qualifies it as a crime against humanity.

If these homes were being built for everyone who has a legal right to live in the West Bank and Jerusalem, I'd support their construction. If Israeli Arabs and Palestinian non-citizens had the same rights and opportunities as Israeli Jews, I'd even support Israel.

Israel's leaders and people who support Israel, discriminate based on differences. I support equal rights for everyone. I do not support taking rights away from anyone, regardless of race or religion. I'm against even classifying people according to race or religion.
 
Avro
No Party Affiliation
#12
What I have always found funny is Isreal's seeming desire to negotiate land claims and at the same time bulldozing peoples homes down to make way for their own.

....then wonder why the crazies have taken control.
 
Just the Facts
Free Thinker
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

This war crime has being going on for 43 years now. Its scale and duration qualifies it as a crime against humanity.

That's interesting because I've read that growth in Arab population and housing in Jerusalem has actually outpaced the growth of Jewish population and housing in Jerusalem since 1967.

Another example of what a dismal failure the Jews are at ethnic cleansing.

If I didn't know better, I'd almost think there was no ethnic cleansing of Arabs in Jerusalem.
 
earth_as_one
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by AvroView Post

.....and the extremists win.

More blood will be spilled now I fear.

No doubt.

A revolt in the West Bank is inevitable as this crime against humanity accelerates. The Harper government will describe Israel's brutal suppression of a Palestinian revolt as a measured response to terrorism.

In a scary development against the right of Canadians to free speech, our government's are moving toward making criticism of Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity illegal:

Quote:

Ontario condemns dissent at universities

Legislature wrong to condemn "Israeli Apartheid Week" on campuses.

Dateline: Tuesday, March 09, 2010

by Linda McQuaig

It's interesting to imagine what John Stuart Mill would have made of the Ontario Legislature.

The great 19th century political theorist, considered one of the seminal thinkers of Western civilization, is perhaps best known for his fierce defence of free speech as one of the foundations of liberty. Mill surely would have found it curious that elected members of the provincial legislature – presumably people who value liberty and democracy – unanimously voted last month to condemn "Israeli Apartheid Week", an annual student-run teach-in held on campuses in Canada and around the world, which takes a critical look at Israel's policies towards the Palestinians.

Canadians should feel free to criticize Israel's policies, just as we're free to criticize the policies of any country – without the meddling of politicians.

The attempt by our elected representatives to discourage this sort of critical examination of a nation's policies is particularly disturbing since it was directed at students, who are doing exactly what they should be doing. Our universities should be about more than just preparing young people for a slot in the corporate world. They should be hotbeds of critical thought, places where the conventional wisdom is ruthlessly scrutinized, where sacred cows are slaughtered.

This sort of scrutiny isn't just one of the perks of living in a free society; it's actually an essential tool for preserving that freedom – according to John Stuart Mill. In his classic text, On Liberty, Mill argues that dissent is essential, because the prevailing view is often wrong, and challenging it helps uncover truth.

Mill insisted this was necessary even when the contrarian views expressed are odious.

But there's nothing odious about Israeli Apartheid Week. Yes, the word apartheid is harsh, but Israel's treatment of the Palestinians, who have lived under Israeli military occupation for more than forty years, is harsh.

And in drawing an analogy to South African apartheid, students are in the company of respected international figures such as South African bishop Desmond Tutu and former US president Jimmy Carter, as well as international jurist and UN human rights rapporteur John Dugard.

Of course, the Ontario legislature didn't ban Israeli Apartheid Week from Ontario campuses. However by condemning it, they are clearly sending a message that this sort of criticism of Israel is considered unacceptable.

But Israel is a country, and Canadians should feel free to criticize its policies, just as we're free to criticize the policies of any country – without the meddling of politicians.

Mill specifically warned against a legislature presuming to "prescribe opinions to [the people], and determine what doctrines or what arguments they shall be allowed to hear."

The condemnation by the Ontario legislature – and a similar motion expected to be introduced in the federal Parliament this week – suggests that this may be the beginning of a broader attempt to clamp down on criticism of Israel, possibly by designating it "hate speech".

An ad hoc group of 22 parliamentarians, calling themselves the Canadian Parliamentary Coalition to Combat Antisemitism, has been holding hearings in Ottawa on what it calls the new Antisemitism. The coalition, which includes members from all parties, seems to be trying to broaden the definition of antisemitism to include criticism of the state of Israel.

If so, will expressions like "Israeli apartheid" be classified as a form of hate speech, and possibly banned or even subjected to punishment under the criminal code?

At the very least, the actions of our elected representatives are sending a chilling message to students to disregard John Stuart Mill. It's OK to read one of the giants of Western thought in class; just don't behave in the way he thought essential to the preservation of liberty.

www.straightgoods.ca/2010/Vie...le.cfm?Ref=305 (external - login to view)

 
earth_as_one
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by Just the FactsView Post

That's interesting because I've read that growth in Arab population and housing in Jerusalem has actually outpaced the growth of Jewish population and housing in Jerusalem since 1967.

Another example of what a dismal failure the Jews are at ethnic cleansing.

If I didn't know better, I'd almost think there was no ethnic cleansing of Arabs in Jerusalem.

Even though you can't see the hour hand move on a clock, its still moving.

Only Arabs are being evicted from their homes. Only Arab homes are being demolished to build new homes for only Israeli Jews.

The Arab population is growing, but they are being crowded into fewer and fewer homes with fewer and fewer services, like water and sewage.

I don't support making people of one religion homeless, so you can build homes for another religion. That's a form of Apartheid, a war crime and on the scale Israel does this, its a crime against humanity.
 
Just the Facts
Free Thinker
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

The Arab population is growing, but they are being crowded into fewer and fewer homes

Quote:

Quoting Just the Facts
That's interesting because I've read that growth in Arab population and housing in Jerusalem has actually outpaced the growth of Jewish population and housing in Jerusalem since 1967.

Hmmm.

At least you agree there's no ethnic cleansing. Now that we've established that there is no ethnic cleansing, we need to fight ethnic compaction.

At least we're making progress.

Is ethnic compaction a war crime? Just wondering.
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#17
"Saving the talks" who cares, we already know how they'll turn out, same as the last hundred or so. Someday Israel will really want peace, but then it will be far to late.
 
ironsides
No Party Affiliation
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

A racist is someone who discriminates based on differences between people.

Racist regimes classify their people according to some criteria and award rights based on their differences.

Israel is a racist regime, because they have three classifications of people. Jewish Israelis have full rights. Non-Jewish Israelis have partial rights. Non-citizen Palestinians have no rights.

If these Jewish homes were on the Israeli side of the 1967 border, they would be legal. But since they are built on land acquired by conflict and illegally ethnically cleansed of people with no rights in order to provide housing for only Jewish Israelis with rights, they are illegal and meet the definition of war crimes and Apartheid.

Arab Israelis are citizens of the Israel with equal rights. In 1948, Israel's Declaration of Independence (external - login to view) called upon the Arab inhabitants of Israel to "participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions".
The political involvement of the Arab sector is manifested through both national and municipal elections. Arab citizens run the political and administrative affairs of their own municipalities and advance Arab interests through their elected representatives in the Knesset (external - login to view), Israel's parliament. Arab Israelis have also held various government positions, including that of deputy minister. At present a member of the Druze community is serving as a government minister.
The Declaration also promises that Israel will "ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex" and guarantees "freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture".
Israel has extensive anti-discrimination laws. Moreover, since the founding of the State, the status of Arab Israeli women has been significantly improved by legislation stipulating equal rights for women and prohibition of polygamy and child marriage. Israel remains one of the few countries in the Middle East where women enjoy equality in rights and personal freedoms, including the right to vote and be elected to local and national office.
The only legal distinction between Arab and Jewish citizens is not one of rights, but rather of civic duty. Since Israel's establishment, Arab citizens have been exempted from compulsory service in the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) (external - login to view). This exemption was made out of consideration for their family, religious and cultural affiliations with the Palestinians and the rest of the Arab world, given the on-going conflict. Still, volunteer military service is encouraged and IDF service was made mandatory for Druze and Circassian men at the request of their community leaders."
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/arabs2.html (external - login to view)

Now as to this statement: "Non-citizen Palestinians have no rights" Why would non-citizens of any country be granted any rights except except basic human rights.


War with Jordon:
"If these Jewish homes were on the Israeli side of the 1967 border, they would be legal. But since they are built on land acquired by conflict and illegally ethnically cleansed of people with no rights in order to provide housing for only Jewish Israelis with rights, they are illegal and meet the definition of war crimes and Apartheid.

If these homes were being built for everyone who has a legal right to live in the West Bank and Jerusalem, I'd support their construction. If Israeli Arabs and Palestinian non-citizens had the same rights and opportunities as Israeli Jews, I'd even support Israel."



These homes are being built on land once belonging to Jordon, not Palestinian, and conquered in a war with Jordon that Israel did not want. Wonder why we do not hear more from Jordon about regaining their lands, they are pretty much staying out of the dispute today. The apartments being built in Jerusalem are legal and spoils of war so to speak.
 
MHz
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by Just the FactsView Post

Hmmm.

At least you agree there's no ethnic cleansing. Now that we've established that there is no ethnic cleansing, we need to fight ethnic compaction.

At least we're making progress.

Is ethnic compaction a war crime? Just wondering.

All that means is they can kill then longer, get the world used to numbers like 1,400 and the next time 14,000 is what it takes for the world to shake it's finger (rather than taking action)
How about if we don't see how big of a pile of bull-chips can be built about the humanity of the ones who can't stop killing their defenseless neighbors? 1400 would be considered a 'good year' but records are meant to be broken.
 
MHz
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by ironsidesView Post

Arab Israelis are citizens of the Israel with equal rights. In 1948, Israel's Declaration of Independence (external - login to view) called upon the Arab inhabitants of Israel to "participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions".

Actions speak louder than words, the red area in the 2nd map on post #5 is area that 'Israel declared as belonging to them'. Those areas were emptied of Arabs between Nov of '47 and May of '48.
The latest 'talk' about stopping expansion is the very same sort of lie.
 
CDNBear
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

CB's slanderous accusation against me has two purposes.

1) Stifle criticism of Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Nope, just pointing out what you are. You can keep speaking, it only builds my case. I support free speech unwaveringly.

Quote:

2) Change the subject to where I have to defend myself from his baseless accusations.

Baseless? I think not, I have proven time and time again, that you support neo Nazi terrorist organizations.

Quote:

I'll address his smears against me once. I intend to ignore any further posts by CB, CC's resident forum stalker and troll.

, You ignore everything posted by me as is, because you can't refute the evidence, you never have addressed the multitude of posts complete with facts. You just ignore it and turn a blind eye to reality, only to perpetuate your filth. Again, proving my assertion, that you are a neo Nazi supporter, to be true. And speaking of smears and so on. Your accusations are simply to have me shut down, you don't support free speech, you support your speech. And of course terrorists.

Quote:

I have no problem condemning Nazi injustice, oppression, war crimes and crimes against humanity.

BS, you have stated clearly, that you believe Hamas and the Hezbollah over the Israeli's. Those two organizations want to ex sponge the Jews from the earth, that is supporting their cause.

Quote:

I have no problem condemning injustice, oppression, war crimes and crimes against humanity whenever or wherever they occur.

It's in your focus and the energy you expend and for whom, that the tail is told.

Quote:

If this was the 1930's, I'm confident I'd be raising awareness of Nazi atrocities just like I am raising awareness of Israeli atrocities now. Nazi war crimes and crimes against humanity occurred 65 + years ago. The time to do something about Nazi atrocities was before and during the time they happened, not 65 years after the fact.

And yet you support groups that were born of the Nazi ideology and still hold it dear. While making unsupported claims against another group, calling them Nazi's.

Quote:

Today, Israel forcefully removes people from their homes, in order to purify the land of inferior people, just like the Nazis did during the 1930's. It remains to be seen if Israel will go as far as the Nazis did in the 1940's and start exterminating people. Gaza and parts of the West Bank today resemble concentration camps and ghettos created by the Nazis during the 1930's.

Yes it remains to be seen, but that hasn't stopped you from calling them Nazi's without proof.

Quote:

What's going on in Gaza today indicates that Israel's leaders consider Palestinians to be subhuman. They have demonstrated a callous and reckless disregard for innocent civilians just like the Nazis did in the 1930's.

Yet life is so good there, that they breed unchecked, they go to school, they are even free to elect leaders. Hmmm, yep, that sounds like a Nazi death camp alright.

Quote:

I realize that's just my opinion, but people can read these reports and come to their own conclusions.

As I did, and the only conclusion I came to, was that unless you actually do your own research, you are woefully misinformed.

Quote:

Justice Goldstone's UN Fact Finding Mission in Gaza:
United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza conflict (external - login to view)

I've already poked so many holes in this, only to watch you ignore the posts. Proving you aren't here to discuss, you're here to preach. Anyone that doesn't agree is a supporter of war crimes, a stalker or whatever. You can make those claims, but you haven't been able to supply proof.

Quote:

Amnesty International report on Gaza:
Israel/Gaza: Operation "Cast Lead": 22 days of death and destruction | Amnesty International (external - login to view)

A report that wouldn't hold up in a court of law.

Quote:

Unlike CB, I don't support injustice, oppression, war crimes and crimes against humanity as detailed in the above reports. I also don't try to dismiss or belittle reports that identify war crimes and crimes against humanity.

No, you support regimes that would exterminate the Jews. I support Israel's right to exist. I have also held Israel accountable when warranted. You however make no attempt to separate fact from fiction in your attempt to smear Israel ad nauseum.

Quote:

Most Canadians are well informed about Palestinian militant war crimes as detailed in the above reports. But they know little to nothing about the Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity also detailed in the above reports. Since the Harper government "unshakably" supports Israel, Canadians should read the above reports and decide if they agree with the Harper government.

And go figure, there are fewer and fewer half wits supporting terrorist everyday. Unlike yourself.

Quote:

I am not intimidated by CB's smear against me. People can make up their own minds about whose ideology is more compassionate and whose ideology more closely resembles support for Nazi war crimes and crimes against humanity.

I support freedom and the truth. You however do not. And yes you are intimidated by me, hence your attempt to censor me with accusations you can not prove. I on the other hand, can and have proven that you support Nazi regimes, you overtly attack Israel without all the facts, and that you do so without balance, or equality.

Quote:

Threats or stalking in violation of forum rules will be reported to the moderators.



Speaking of smears and intimidation!!!

That statement/accusation is purely to shut me down, without warrant or fact, you are without a doubt the highest order of hypocrite. Since the Administration has not seen fit to address your cries, it would seem your opinion of me, is as erroneous as your opinions of Israel.

What does that tell you eao?

Quote: Originally Posted by Just the FactsView Post

That's interesting because I've read that growth in Arab population and housing in Jerusalem has actually outpaced the growth of Jewish population and housing in Jerusalem since 1967.

Another example of what a dismal failure the Jews are at ethnic cleansing.

If I didn't know better, I'd almost think there was no ethnic cleansing of Arabs in Jerusalem.

JTF, you're barking up the wrong tree, lol.
Last edited by CDNBear; Mar 15th, 2010 at 05:21 AM..
 
ironsides
No Party Affiliation
#22
Postwar Arab links to the ODESSA network

The Nazi-Arab connection started by the Mufti of Jerusalem, Hajj Amin al-Husseini, continued after the war according to Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke writing in Hitler's Priestess: Savitri Devi, the Hindu-Aryan myth, and Neo-Nazism (New York University Press, New York, USA, 199. The Middle East had emerged as a haven for Nazis fleeing Europe in the 1950s, which had its roots in the anti-British and pro-Nazi attitudes of Vichy Syria, Rashid Ali in Iraq, King Farouk of Egypt and the Mufti of Jerusalem.
Thus, Egypt became like Argentina, a safe-haven for Nazi's fleeing justice and retribution from the Allies in Europe. Goodrick-Clarke states that King Farouk had been "impressed" by his garage mechanics recruited from Afrika Korps POWs, and:
"Wondered what he might achieve with officers from elite units of the Gestapo and SS who had fought so hard against the hated British" (p174).
Thus, a number of "nazi experts" who had escaped the Allied dragnet were hired by the King as military, financial and technical advisers. Although King Farouk was ousted in a military coup in January 1952, the Generals of the Egyptian armed forces were themselves "great admirers" of the Nazi's and "availed themselves of further large-scale imports of ex-Nazi expertise". They were to be helped by the former Luftwaffe ace Hans-Ulrich Rudel, the ex-SS commando Otto Skorzeny (1908-1975) and Eugen Dollman in recruiting "large numbers" of former Nazi fugitives from Argentina for key posts in the new republican regime in Egypt.

Not surprisingly, the few remaining Egyptian Jews in Egypt fled. From population of 75,000 Jews in 1948, by 1974 only 350 remained. In 1956, 4000 Jews were expelled, after being forced to renounce all property rights and financial claims. In 1957, all Egyptian Jews not in "continuous residence" since 1900 were deprived of citizenship. In 1960, many synagogues were closed down, along with Jewish orphanages, schools, hospitals and old peoples homes; and in 1967, all Jews in official positions were dismissed, with many more tortured and expelled, according to Martin Gilbert, author of The Routledge Atlas of Jewish History (Routledge, London, 1995).

Postwar Arab links to the ODESSA network (external - login to view)
 
MHz
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by Just the FactsView Post

Israeli apartheid at work. The world outraged by the building of new homes because some might be inhabited by Jews. No, that's not racist.

If any part of Jerusalem is occupied territory, it's occupied by Arabs. Jerusalem is, always has been, and always will be Jewish.

Technically the one that gave them the land also took it back and gave it to the Gentiles. God is the landlord of that land, Jews are ancestors of renters. You leave a place (more correctly evicted by the landlord) you do not have the right to demand that place be given to you as a possession after some 2,000 years of absence. It would seem that Canada and the US will be giving up their possessions and returning it to the 'original people'.
Israel also claims possession of some areas by way of conquest of the gun starting in '47.
They could produce God who could verify that previous claims are still valid and that would mean anything called the 'time of the Gentiles' was a figment of the Churches imagination. Whoops that also means there is no Church.

Did you know the dead have to be living again before the Bible says Jews can return to that place? He kicked them out once for killing people they weren't supposed to, that will be forgiven, that does not mean strike two will be a lesser punishment. God left Jerusalem under the control of Gentiles, Jews are killing Gentiles and trying to claim the 'now vacant land', He can multiply their sorrows because they are in effect killing God's chosen people, again.
 
CDNBear
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by ironsidesView Post

Postwar Arab links to the ODESSA network

Facts, facts, facts, why post them, they will be summarily ignored, dismissed as pro Israeli propaganda, or have you labeled a troll, a stalker and a supporter of war crimes.
 
MHz
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by ironsidesView Post

Postwar Arab links to the ODESSA network
The Nazi-Arab connection started by the Mufti of Jerusalem, Hajj Amin al-Husseini, continued after the war according to Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke writing in Hitler's Priestess: Savitri Devi, the Hindu-Aryan myth, and Neo-Nazism (New York University Press, New York, USA, 199. The Middle East had emerged as a haven for Nazis fleeing Europe in the 1950s, which had its roots in the anti-British and pro-Nazi attitudes of Vichy Syria, Rashid Ali in Iraq, King Farouk of Egypt and the Mufti of Jerusalem.
Thus, Egypt became like Argentina, a safe-haven for Nazi's fleeing justice and retribution from the Allies in Europe. Goodrick-Clarke states that King Farouk had been "impressed" by his garage mechanics recruited from Afrika Korps POWs, and:
"Wondered what he might achieve with officers from elite units of the Gestapo and SS who had fought so hard against the hated British" (p174).

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
From your link

"Gamal Abdal Nasser (1918-1970): The author Goodrick-Clarke says Nasser was "well disposed" towards the Nazis"

If that was actually true then it was from watching how the Americans welcomed the SS into their military machine.

(in part)
How Was The CIA Formed?
By absorbing the Nazi war criminal infrastructure
by Jared Israel
[Posted 23 December 2003]
================================================== =========
On Oct 8, 1998, the Nazi War Crimes Disclosure Act became US law. This legislation:
“...calls for the establishment of the Nazi War Criminal Records Interagency Working Group [IWG] to locate, identify, and make available to the public Nazi war criminal records.” [1]
The IWG’s task was to organize previously classified documents from the OSS, predecessor of the CIA, as well as from the CIA and other intelligence sources, and to make these documents available to the public. These were to include documents relating to possible collusion between US government organizations and Nazi war criminals.
Millions of pages have been released but very little information has trickled down to the broad public. And this trickle has been presented in a way calculated to minimize public awareness of the extent to which the Nazi apparatus was recruited in order - literally - to *become* the US covert operations and intelligence apparatus (the CIA etc.)
This story centers around the figure of Reinhard Gehlen.

www.emperors-clothes.com/analysis/gehlen.htm (external - login to view)
 
CDNBear
#26
Ah yes, the two wrongs make a right defence...

Would it make a difference if I pointed out the US didn't make it national policy to exterminate Jews once they absorbed Nazi henchmen and technology?
 
MHz
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Facts, facts, facts, why post them, they will be summarily ignored, dismissed as pro Israeli propaganda, or have you labeled a troll, a stalker and a supporter of war crimes.

Why did you not post some facts with your post. How do you account for 'both side' recruiting the former SS boys, I doubt the US would allow Egypt to get anything more than the scum at the bottom of the SS barrel. How much rocket technology did Egypt get as part of their 'scoop'?
 
CDNBear
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

Why did you not post some facts with your post.

Because I quoted Iron. Who posted facts about the Nazi influence in the Arab world. Something I have posted time and time again, including three threads and countless rebuttals to the fouls who support the neo Nazi regimes that stand to exterminate the Jews.

Quote:

How do you account for 'both side' recruiting the former SS boys, I doubt the US would allow Egypt to get anything more than the scum at the bottom of the SS barrel.

I don't account for it, it';s not my job. I do however find it reprehensible, no matter who does it.

Quote:

How much rocket technology did Egypt get as part of their 'scoop'?

Not that it matters, but Egypt isn't exactly, and wasn't, a hot bed of science in the 40's and 50's. Not to mention, scientists, employed in rocketry, weren't exactly selling what the Arabs wanted back then. The US wanted to out pace the Russians and the Arabs wanted to exterminate Jews.

So you can see why one would court the other.
 
earth_as_one
#29
The rift continues to grow. AIPAC is in full damage control:

Quote:

Israel envoy says crisis with US 'worst since 1975'
By Marius Schattner (AFP) – 4 hours ago
JERUSALEM — Relations between Israel and the United States have hit a 35-year low, Israel's ambassador in Washington said amid simmering tensions between the two key allies.
"Israel's relations with the US are facing the most severe crisis since 1975," the Yediot Aharonot newspaper Monday quoted ambassador Michael Oren, a prominent Middle East historian, as telling consuls in the United States during a telephone briefing over the weekend.
That year US calls for a partial Israeli withdrawal from Egypt's Sinai peninsula, then under Israeli occupation, ignited a major crisis between the two allies.
The latest diplomatic upheaval started when Israel gave its green light for construction of 1,600 new homes for Jewish settlers in east Jerusalem during a visit by US Vice President Joe Biden last week aimed at promoting indirect peace talks with the Palestinians.
US administration officials including Biden, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and senior presidential advisor David Axelrod have slammed both the new construction and the timing of the announcement as insulting and destructive to peace efforts.
On Sunday, a major pro-Israel US lobby group warned the stern US remarks were "of serious concern."

Quote has been trimmed
 
ironsides
No Party Affiliation
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

From your link

"Gamal Abdal Nasser (1918-1970): The author Goodrick-Clarke says Nasser was "well disposed" towards the Nazis"



www.emperors-clothes.com/analysis/gehlen.htm (external - login to view)

So what all covert organizations learned from each other. We also intergrated them into our space program. That is not the point.
History of the CIA

The United States has carried out intelligence activities since the days of George Washington, but only since World War II have they been coordinated on a government-wide basis. President Franklin D. Roosevelt appointed New York lawyer and war hero, William J. Donovan, to become first the Coordinator of Information, and then, after the US entered World War II, head of the Office of Strategic Services (OSS) in 1942. The OSS – the forerunner to the CIA – had a mandate to collect and analyze strategic information. After World War II, however, the OSS was abolished along with many other war agencies and its functions were transferred to the State and War Departments.
It did not take long before President Truman recognized the need for a postwar, centralized intelligence organization. To make a fully functional intelligence office, Truman signed the National Security Act of 1947 establishing the CIA. The National Security Act charged the CIA with coordinating the nation’s intelligence activities and correlating, evaluating and disseminating intelligence affecting national security.

https://www.cia.gov/about-cia/histor...cia/index.html
 
no new posts