Why America Should Apologize

JBeee

Time Out
Jun 1, 2007
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Connor Boyackon
February 25th, 2010

In an interview this week about his forthcoming book, No Apology: The Case for American Greatness, Mitt Romney was asked what he meant when saying that America need not apologize. He responded as follows:
While we’ve made some mistakes, we have a record of promoting freedom, peace, and prosperity throughout the world. There is a view in Washington that America will be eclipsed by other nations. I think that would have grave consequences for freedom and world peace.
True to form, he did not actually answer the question. He first made a highly superficial concession that we’ve made some mistakes. (Which? How often? How damaging?) He then goes on to blabber about a “view” that other nations might “eclipse” America, something he feels would have “grave consequences”. How this is in any way connected to the original question is anyone’s best guess.

Mitt Romney, unsurprisingly, is wrong. He’s not the only one spouting this hollow rhetoric, however. Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-UT) said just last week during his CPAC speech that we should “never, ever, ever” apologize for America. Former Governor Sarah Palin said last fall that we “should never apologize for our country”. George H.W. Bush said, as President, that “I’ll never apologize for the United States. Ever. I don’t care what the facts are.”
These shallow and ignorant statements are an affront to any sense of justice, morality, and civic virtue. If, as Romney suggests, America has “made some mistakes”, it might just follow that, depending on their severity and damage, we should apologize and/or make reparations. To see where this might apply, and in stark contrast to the superficiality of Romney and his like-minded cohorts, let’s dig a bit deeper and consider a few examples, in no particular order:
Iran Air Flight 655
President Bush’s offensive statement above was no isolated incident. After a Navy missile destroyed an Iranian civilian airplane in 1988, killing all 290 passengers (including 66 children), Bush, who was Vice President and campaigning to become President, said in response to the event: “I will never apologize for the United States — I don’t care what the facts are… I’m not an apologize-for-America kind of guy.” You can only imagine how the family, friends, and Iranian population at large felt about these remarks by the soon-to-be leader of the so-called free world.
Vietnam war
America’s role in Vietnam was not isolated only to the intense and protracted military engagement. As Martin Luther King, Jr., pointed out in a 1967 speech, our entanglements were both historical and highly damaging. Though this article’s brevity require I exclude all but a portion, the reader is very much encouraged to read it in its entirety.
They must see Americans as strange liberators. The Vietnamese people proclaimed their own independence in 1945 after a combined French and Japanese occupation, and before the Communist revolution in China. They were led by Ho Chi Minh. Even though they quoted the American Declaration of Independence in their own document of freedom, we refused to recognize them. Instead, we decided to support France in its reconquest of her former colony.
Our government felt then that the Vietnamese people were not “ready” for independence, and we again fell victim to the deadly Western arrogance that has poisoned the international atmosphere for so long. With that tragic decision we rejected a revolutionary government seeking self-determination, and a government that had been established not by China (for whom the Vietnamese have no great love) but by clearly indigenous forces that included some Communists. For the peasants this new government meant real land reform, one of the most important needs in their lives.
For nine years following 1945 we denied the people of Vietnam the right of independence. For nine years we vigorously supported the French in their abortive effort to recolonize Vietnam.
Before the end of the war we were meeting eighty percent of the French war costs. Even before the French were defeated at Dien Bien Phu, they began to despair of the reckless action, but we did not. We encouraged them with our huge financial and military supplies to continue the war even after they had lost the will. Soon we would be paying almost the full costs of this tragic attempt at recolonization.

What do the peasants think as we ally ourselves with the landlords and as we refuse to put any action into our many words concerning land reform? What do they think as we test our latest weapons on them, just as the Germans tested out new medicine and new tortures in the concentration camps of Europe? Where are the roots of the independent Vietnam we claim to be building? Is it among these voiceless ones?
We have destroyed their two most cherished institutions: the family and the village. We have destroyed their land and their crops. We have cooperated in the crushing of the nation’s only non-Communist revolutionary political force — the unified Buddhist church. We have supported the enemies of the peasants of Saigon. We have corrupted their women and children and killed their men. What liberators?
Now there is little left to build on — save bitterness. Soon the only solid physical foundations remaining will be found at our military bases and in the concrete of the concentration camps we call fortified hamlets. The peasants may well wonder if we plan to build our new Vietnam on such grounds as these? Could we blame them for such thoughts? We must speak for them and raise the questions they cannot raise. These too are our brothers.
Fast forward to the event that began America’s commitment of soldiers to war in a distant land. The false-flag Gulf of Tonkin incident served as political fodder for Robert McNamara and others to further involve America in the “cold war” worldwide battle to “contain” communism. The alleged goal was to prevent a communist takeover of South Vietnam; after over a decade of American involvement, and the groundswell of public opposition, our government removed its military support from the unsuccessful campaign. One Vietnamese in every ten had become a casualty of war (1.5 million killed, 3 million wounded), and the Vietnamese had been embroiled in resistance to foreign intervention or occupation for 116 years. Almost 60,000 Americans were killed, over 300,000 wounded, and all for an unncessary military campaign desired by a few politicians.
1953 Iranian coup d’état
The CIA helped overthrow the democratically-elected Prime Minister Mohammed Mosaddeq, install the authoritarian monarch Mohammad Reza Pahlavi (the “Shah”) in his place (so much for “spreading democracy”, right?), and train his secret police force.
Eisenhower consider this project (“Operation Ajax”) a “successful secret war” though the event is now widely recognized as being a massive failure since the resulting “blowback” heavily contributed to the 1979 Iranian Revolution, which overthrew the Shah and replaced his pro-Western monarchy with the Islamic Republic of Iran, certainly no friend of the West.
In 2000, globalist and former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright stated “The Eisenhower administration believed its actions were justified for strategic reasons. … But the coup was clearly a setback for Iran’s political development. And it is easy to see now why many Iranians continue to resent this intervention by America in their internal affairs. (emphasis added)” While not an apology, this recognition is at least a petty needle in a voluminous haystack of long-standing imperial arrogance.
1973 Chilean coup d’état
On October 16, 1970, the CIA sent a message to its branch in Chile which read:
It is firm and continuing policy that Allende be overthrown by a coup. It would be much preferable to have this transpire prior to October 24 [1970] but efforts in this regard will continue vigorously beyond this date. We are to continue to generate maximum pressure toward this end, utilizing every appropriate resource. It is imperative that these actions be implemented clandestinely and securely so that the USG and American hand be well hidden…
Just shy of three years later, and in the alleged name of rooting out Communism, the CIA was successful in helping to overthrow the government of democratically-elected President Salvador Allende through a military coup. The military junta that consolidated control of the government was backed by the U.S. government, composed of the leaders of Chile’s various military branches, and headed by General Augusto Pinochet.
Around three months of riots and public resistance to the coup followed, leading to the arrest of tens of thousands of people who were held in the National Stadium. The Rettig Report determined that 2,279 individuals were killed by the military dictatorship for political reasons or as a result of political violence. The Valech Report stated that 31,947 individuals were tortured, and 1,312 were exiled. Two-thirds of these instances of brutal oppression occurred within one year of the U.S.-assisted coup.
Banana Wars
The military interventions into Central America and Caribbean countries in the early 1900s received this nickname because of their primary purpose, which was to preserve American commercial interests in the region (banana production chief among them). The list of countries whose governments the U.S. overthrew and occupied shows the magnitude of military force being used to clear the way for the American corporate prostitution of these countries’ natural resources.
Smedley Butler, who at the time of his death was the most decorated Marine in U.S. history, was highly involved in these wars and later stunned an audience recounting his participation in and assessment of these wars:
I spent 33 years…being a high-class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer for capitalism….
I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1916. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City [Bank] boys to collect revenue in. I helped in the rape of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street….
In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested….I had…a swell racket. I was rewarded with honors, medals, promotions….I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate a racket in three cities. The Marines operated on three continents…
Iraq
From 1990 to 2003, and initiated at the U.S. government’s behest, the U.N. imposed sanctions on Iraq after Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait. After the Iraqis were forced out, the sanctions began with the U.N. mandating that the country comply with Security Council Resolution 687 which demanded that Iraq eliminate its weapons of mass destruction and that it recognize the nation-state of Kuwait.
Rolf Ekeus, the U.N. representative responsible for identifying and destroying Iraq’s weaponry, had already certified that 817 out of Iraq’s 819 long-range missiles had been destroyed. This report was a political liability for President Bill Clinton, who had his new Secretary of State Madeleine Albright declare that sanctions would continue until Saddam was removed from office.—a much different purpose than their original one. This led to Saddam refusing to work with the weapons inspectors any longer, leaving only the hopes of Clinton’s administration that heavy suffering imposed on the Iraqi citizens would somehow bring down the despot.
Half a million children are estimated to have died as a result of the sanctions—a number which Albright once declared in an interview as being “worth it”. In 2000, Christian Aid observed that:
The immediate consequence of eight years of sanctions has been a dramatic fall in living standards, the collapse of the infrastructure, and a serious decline in the availability of public services. The longer-term damage to the fabric of society has yet to be assessed but economic disruption has already led to heightened levels of crime, corruption and violence. Competition for increasingly scarce resources has allowed the Iraqi state to use clan and sectarian rivalries to maintain its control, further fragmenting Iraqi society.
During the dozens years of sanctions, bombs were being dropped on Iraq almost daily, while the sanctions continued a long campaign of human rights violations. The U.N.’s humanitarian aid chief, Dennis Halliday, resigned in protest, as did his successor, Hans von Sponeck. Together, they wrote that:
The death of some 5–6,000 children a month is mostly due to contaminated water, lack of medicines and malnutrition. The US and UK governments’ delayed clearance of equipment and materials is responsible for this tragedy, not Baghdad.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki
One cannot think of an action committed by this country’s government that necessitates an apology without having the bombing of these two Japanese cities come to mind. President Harry S. Truman ordered the bombing of these two cities, filled with hundreds of thousands of civilians, in supposed retaliation for the attack on Pearl Harbor, a military installation. The lives of some 200,000 civilian men, women, and children were immediately snuffed out, or slowly and miserably drained through the effects of radiation poisoning, in one of the greatest war crimes this nation has ever committed.
Consider two variants on the action. Would so many Americans cheer the retaliation if instead of sending the bombs, our military had rounded up each individual in the two cities and murdered them in gas chambers? Or, if Germany had dropped atomic bombs on cities instead of our government, would those responsible not have been charged as war criminals and sentenced to death at Nuremberg?
Guantanamo
Guantanamo Bay is the military detention facility where the U.S. government imprisons alleged terrorists, beginning in 1991 when George H.W. Bush used it to round up HIV-positive Haitian immigrants who were forcefully separated from other refugees after the 1991 Haitian coup. The first captives in George Bush’s “war on terror” arrived from Kandahar, some 8,000 miles away, on January 11, 2002, and locked up in wire cages. In order to sidestep the rights guaranteed to prisoners of war by the Geneva Conventions, they were labeled “unlawful (and later ‘enemy’) combatants”.
Out of 775 total detainees sent to Guantanamo, only 245 currently remain. 420 have been released without being charged for any crime—sent packing with nary an apology or compensation for the years of their lives lost. And thus far only three (three!) individuals have been charged with a crime:

  • David Hicks was found guilty under retrospective legislation introduced in 2006 of providing material support to terrorists in 2001.
  • Salim Hamdan took a job as chauffeur driving Osama bin Laden.
  • Ali al-Bahlul made a video celebrating the attack on the USS Cole (DDG-67).
Thus, the fruits of this imperial institution are the successful prosecution of a man who donated some money or supplies, a car driver, and a videographer. The lives of hundreds of individuals have been forcefully altered through the decision of the U.S. government to imprison them without being charged of a crime, all in the name of allegedly providing security for Iraq/Afghanistan and our “homeland”. According to some sources, the government now plans to hold 47 of these individuals in infinite detention, neither giving them an opportunity to contest the (likely erroneous) allegations made against them, nor releasing them for lack of evidence.
Conclusion
The list, unfortunately, could continue. The examples cited above are a mere handful in an otherwise lengthy chronicle of circumstances in which the U.S. government has been directly responsible for denying other individuals the right to their life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.
Should America offer no apology for any of the aforementioned atrocities? Should our government be able to wash its hands so easily of these actions by merely declaring them necessary for “protecting America’s interests”, “spreading democracy”, or some similarly pathetic response? And should the ignorance and/or arrogance of current politicians be tolerated when they declare that “we should not apologize for America”?
History makes at least one thing absolutely clear: regardless of the stated purposes and proffered justifications, the United States of America has been the cause and source of untold death, destruction, and damage. To say that we should not apologize for these stains on our nation’s standard of liberty is not only a reflection of the individual’s inadequate level of morality, but an indication that he or she might one day participate in similar atrocities.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
32,493
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In the bush near Sudbury
For nine years following 1945 we denied the people of Vietnam the right of independence. For nine years we vigorously supported the French in their abortive effort to recolonize Vietnam.

1945 to 1949 - before the Soviet Union and Red China recognized Ho's government - the US supported Ho in his fight against French colonialism.

What else didn't the author get right?
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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Mitt Romney is perfectly correct on one thing.........if the USA is eclipsed by "other nations (read China)........ that would have grave consequences for freedom......"

These idiots think the USA is bad!!!!!

Look around....pick any looney state on earth that is busily murdering its own people by the thousand.......

North Korea? China's best buddy.

Iran? Heck, the Chinese and Iran are like teenage lovers.

The Sudan........China loves them for their oil.

Zimbabwe? The Chinese think Robbie Mugabe is just so cute....

And all that is going on RIGHT NOW!!! Want to did back into China's history 60 years? Hopefully, you'll be a little troubled by the bodies of AT LEAST 50 million Chinese murdered by the Communist Party.

Compared to the alternatives, the United States is a shining beacon of all that is good and correct in the world.

(troll! :))
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
8,252
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Mitt Romney is perfectly correct on one thing.........if the USA is eclipsed by "other nations (read China)........ that would have grave consequences for freedom......"

These idiots think the USA is bad!!!!!

Look around....pick any looney state on earth that is busily murdering its own people by the thousand.......

North Korea? China's best buddy.

Iran? Heck, the Chinese and Iran are like teenage lovers.

The Sudan........China loves them for their oil.

Zimbabwe? The Chinese think Robbie Mugabe is just so cute....

And all that is going on RIGHT NOW!!! Want to did back into China's history 60 years? Hopefully, you'll be a little troubled by the bodies of AT LEAST 50 million Chinese murdered by the Communist Party.

Compared to the alternatives, the United States is a shining beacon of all that is good and correct in the world.

(troll! :))

You do realize that a similar, but much longer list could be made for the USA? This is a clear case of a very dirty kettle calling a slightly tarnished pot black.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
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Romney is an arrogant pr**k, and needs his little polished
butt kicked, and messed up a little.

Yes, the u.s. is a beacon of freedom, just like canada,
and democracy is good and is an example to the world that
citizens have to be treated with respect, have freedom of
speech, etc etc etc.,

BUT, no country is perfect, and the u.s. made a huge blunder
in Iraq, and those arrogant words by romney or anyone else
in the u.s. who would never apologize, is a sign of weakness and the inability to deal with imperfections that
all countries have. I see all across the world, all of the
leaders of all countries will never apologize for anything,
and it is those leaders who are bull headed, pig headed,
and arrogant, and we, the masses have to sit back and be
led by all of them, and can do nothing to change their
stance, even though we all know of the mistakes, it's
adult men, with false pride who will stare each other down,
and never admit fault, only they are responsible for millions of people, and still don't care to be flexible,
and see any fault within themselves, they are only interested in power and the are vain, and need admiration
from others, not different from actresses and actors.

A big fault of an individual, and a huge fault of a countries leaders.
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
7,046
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So what should we apologize for?
I guess it depends on how you see things. You see this is how I look at some things in Canada. I am part native indian. Mostly Irish but still part native indian. I haven't spent time studying the native indians other than to seek out my gg grandfather who was a Cowichan Chief. If you look back in old census records, you will often see where the Indians moved back and forth from the USA to Canada. So --- I'm still trying to figure out why any of the native indians and any of the "white" population feels that most of the prime pieces of land belong to the natives. They were not settlers and did not lay claim to land. They lived on a piece of land until the weather was going to get bad and they moved to warmer ground. More like gypies I guess. I'm not intending to insult anyone. Just saying it like I truly believe it to be. All that aside, we are still owing money and land to people who NEVER lived waaaay back then, nor did we. I cannot understand for the life of me, why I owe anything to someone who did not earn or even lay claim to a single piece of land. If I travel to the middle of the prairie or just way out into the woods of BC, and I stay there for the summer months and then move onto California for the winter months, does this give me the right to own the land? You bet it doesn't. I would be using it in the same way as they did but it would not belong to me. Shouldn't they apologize then for trying to claim so much of the land as their's??? What makes it their's?
Then we have the Oriental people who insisted WE apologize for taking prisoners of war in this country. The war happened before I was born and I had no say in it, no part in it. My Dad did't even go to war. Why should I apologized. It was war for goodness sakes. Those people are not here now. I do not owe their relatives an apology. I did nothing to them or their relatives.
I think your answer should be much the same. Did you personally do anything to any of the references above (the OP I mean). Even if some want to blame the USA for many wars that occur (and they would not be wrong), you personally would not be the one to apologize. These things (war) are on the shoulders of a few powerful people. Folks like are are just folks.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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You do realize that a similar, but much longer list could be made for the USA? This is a clear case of a very dirty kettle calling a slightly tarnished pot black.

Baloney.

Fifty MILLION dead???

The Americans are not responsible for even a small fraction of that.............nor do they support the murderous regimes the Chinese so love, I hadn't even mentioned Chinese support of Burma, and the Tibetan thing......
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
8,252
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38
Edmonton
Baloney.

Fifty MILLION dead???

The Americans are not responsible for even a small fraction of that.............nor do they support the murderous regimes the Chinese so love, I hadn't even mentioned Chinese support of Burma, and the Tibetan thing......

You are right about the government of Mao, however, if you wish to go back the the beginning of US history I suppose we could draw parallels between the murder of millions of Chinese and the genocide perpetrated against aboriginal Americas. So far as the government of modern China is concerned it is not even close to the actions of the US government during the Cold War. All great powers tend to surround themselves with nations over which they can exert control and the US is no exception. Remember the idea of the thread is whether or not the US has ever done anything wrong; it has nothing to do with China. What you are essentially saying is that the Chinese were bad and are bad, therefore, what the US did was acceptable. It isn't. A wrong is a wrong whether it is done by someone you like or someone you dislike. Mr. Romney is exhibiting a very selective memory of historical events. I very much doubt that we will see the sort of political, economic, and military manipulation by the Chinese that the US was so famous for during much of the 20th century.
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
8,252
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Edmonton
Connor Boyackon
February 25th, 2010

Hiroshima and Nagasaki
One cannot think of an action committed by this country’s government that necessitates an apology without having the bombing of these two Japanese cities come to mind. President Harry S. Truman ordered the bombing of these two cities, filled with hundreds of thousands of civilians, in supposed retaliation for the attack on Pearl Harbor, a military installation. The lives of some 200,000 civilian men, women, and children were immediately snuffed out, or slowly and miserably drained through the effects of radiation poisoning, in one of the greatest war crimes this nation has ever committed.
Consider two variants on the action. Would so many Americans cheer the retaliation if instead of sending the bombs, our military had rounded up each individual in the two cities and murdered them in gas chambers? Or, if Germany had dropped atomic bombs on cities instead of our government, would those responsible not have been charged as war criminals and sentenced to death at Nuremberg?

The use of nuclear devices against Japan is one area where there are a number of arguments excusing the Americans. The Japanese have been very good at making the world feel sorry for them due to the dropping of the two atomic bombs, while glossing over even greater atrocities committed by Japan during the war.

In any case, there were a sound military and humanitarian reasons for the use of atomic bombs against the Japanese. First of all, there was the fact that an invasion of Japan would probably have cost as many American dead and wounded as the US had already suffered in the entire war. No Commander in Chief could reasonably be expected to order his military to accept such casualties if there was any other way of ending the war. The A bomb promised a way out without the loss of a single American life.
Second, an invasion of Japan would not haver killed just Americans. Almost certainly Japanese casualties would have been in the millions, especially given the fact that the Japanese high command planned to use poorly trained civilians in mass suicide attacks against the Americans.
Third, an option being considered by the US was not an invasion but the use of mass fleets of conventional bombers to flatten every city in Japan. The plan was developed by Air Force general Curtis Lemay who planned to used the US fleet of 8,000 strategic bombers to take out every city in Japan through the use of fire bombings. Such a plan if put into action would have killed many times more than were killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
And finally, Japanese Emperor Hirohito was looking for a way to end the war without losing face. In order to do that he needed an event so disastrous that surrender would be regarded as an act intended to save the Japanese people. The two A bombs provided him with that event. He could then play the part of the benevolent emperor sacrificing his pride in order to preserve his people.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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nor do they support the murderous regimes

Selective memory there Colpy?Central and South America and South East Asia: Us support of brutal regimes, political assassinations of democratically elect leaders who didn't support US exploitations of their countries, training death squads on US soil. Do the names Pinochet, Poppa Doc, Vietnam, Philippines and De Marcos, ring any bells.

Bringing China into the discussion is just a diversionary tactic. We aren't discussing what anybody else did. The US has caused millions to be suffer and die, directly and indirectly, with their political interference in dozens of countries all over the globe. I think we have been down this path before. I can't figure out why you are such a staunch US apologist.
 

Walter

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 28, 2007
34,844
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Bringing China into the discussion is just a diversionary tactic. We aren't discussing what anybody else did. The US has caused millions to be suffer and die, directly and indirectly, with their political interference in dozens of countries all over the globe. I think we have been down this path before. I can't figure out why you are such a staunch US apologist.
Maybe he can't figure out why you like to bite the hand that feeds you.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Mitt Romney is perfectly correct on one thing.........if the USA is eclipsed by "other nations (read China)........ that would have grave consequences for freedom......"

These idiots think the USA is bad!!!!!

Look around....pick any looney state on earth that is busily murdering its own people by the thousand.......

North Korea? China's best buddy.

Iran? Heck, the Chinese and Iran are like teenage lovers.

The Sudan........China loves them for their oil.

Zimbabwe? The Chinese think Robbie Mugabe is just so cute....

And all that is going on RIGHT NOW!!! Want to did back into China's history 60 years? Hopefully, you'll be a little troubled by the bodies of AT LEAST 50 million Chinese murdered by the Communist Party.

Compared to the alternatives, the United States is a shining beacon of all that is good and correct in the world.

(troll! :))

Nobody murders it's own citizens quieter than the Americans.
 

YukonJack

Time Out
Dec 26, 2008
7,026
73
48
Winnipeg
America should apologize right after:

The Huns apologized for conquering the Visigoths.

The Romans apologized for conquering Carthage.

The Spartans apologized for the Trojan incident.

The Spanish apologized for the cruelties imposed upon South America, including the typically Spanish, barbaric Bull Fighting.

The Soviet Union apologized for enslaving Half of Europe after WWII.

FDR aplogized for same.

Right after the United States apologized for treating the ones they defeated (NOTE: NOT CONQUERED!!) Japan and Germany and helped them to be industrial leaders.

This thread was started by a bitter, unsatisfied and totally unqualified person on international affairs, who probably lives alone in his mother's basement.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
=Cliffy;1235724]nor do they support the murderous regimes

I can't figure out why you are such a staunch US apologist.
[/quote]

It's always hard for friends and associates to accept a diagnosis of severe brain damage, but as such is painfully obvious with our poor demented friend Colpy, we have to learn to cope. I can't help thinking what with the advances in medical science that something couldn't be done, perhaps they could substitute a brick instead of the malfunctioning grey matter and maybe there would be some noticeable improvement.:lol:
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
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I guess it depends on how you see things. You see this is how I look at some things in Canada. I am part native indian. Mostly Irish but still part native indian. I haven't spent time studying the native indians other than to seek out my gg grandfather who was a Cowichan Chief. If you look back in old census records, you will often see where the Indians moved back and forth from the USA to Canada. So --- I'm still trying to figure out why any of the native indians and any of the "white" population feels that most of the prime pieces of land belong to the natives. They were not settlers and did not lay claim to land. They lived on a piece of land until the weather was going to get bad and they moved to warmer ground. More like gypies I guess. I'm not intending to insult anyone. Just saying it like I truly believe it to be. All that aside, we are still owing money and land to people who NEVER lived waaaay back then, nor did we. I cannot understand for the life of me, why I owe anything to someone who did not earn or even lay claim to a single piece of land. If I travel to the middle of the prairie or just way out into the woods of BC, and I stay there for the summer months and then move onto California for the winter months, does this give me the right to own the land? You bet it doesn't. I would be using it in the same way as they did but it would not belong to me. Shouldn't they apologize then for trying to claim so much of the land as their's??? What makes it their's?
Then we have the Oriental people who insisted WE apologize for taking prisoners of war in this country. The war happened before I was born and I had no say in it, no part in it. My Dad did't even go to war. Why should I apologized. It was war for goodness sakes. Those people are not here now. I do not owe their relatives an apology. I did nothing to them or their relatives.
I think your answer should be much the same. Did you personally do anything to any of the references above (the OP I mean). Even if some want to blame the USA for many wars that occur (and they would not be wrong), you personally would not be the one to apologize. These things (war) are on the shoulders of a few powerful people. Folks like are are just folks.

I never quit figured out the land claims thing either. All I see is a bunch of greedy, mostly white lawyers getting rich playing on the guilt of rich liberals. I feel zero responsibility for what happened before I was born and if all this traditional lands BS was applied to Europe the lawyers would be rich for centuries arguing over who stole what land from who.
 

wulfie68

Council Member
Mar 29, 2009
2,014
24
38
Calgary, AB
I look at this in a similar fashion to people like Colpy and Yukon Jack: why are people singling out the USA as needing to apologize over so many others?

The Spaniards were responsible for aboriginal genocides than anyone else in the Americas. Many European nations (including the UK, France, Belgium, the Netherlands, the various Austrian and German states and Portugal) engaged in colonialism with varying degrees of resulting bloodshed. When the Cold War is brought up, people always forget that is was instigated by the Soviets (who occupied half of Europe for 60 years as well as getting involved in numerous proxy wars with the West.

I'm not saying the USA's hands are squeaky clean but whose are?
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
192
63
Nakusp, BC
I look at this in a similar fashion to people like Colpy and Yukon Jack: why are people singling out the USA as needing to apologize over so many others?

The Spaniards were responsible for aboriginal genocides than anyone else in the Americas. Many European nations (including the UK, France, Belgium, the Netherlands, the various Austrian and German states and Portugal) engaged in colonialism with varying degrees of resulting bloodshed. When the Cold War is brought up, people always forget that is was instigated by the Soviets (who occupied half of Europe for 60 years as well as getting involved in numerous proxy wars with the West.

I'm not saying the USA's hands are squeaky clean but whose are?
It could be that currently, the US is the one up front and center wreaking havoc in the world and people are trying to white wash their bloody deeds with BS about democracy and freedom when quite the opposite is true.