US Congress will put price on carbon this session

[Tonington]

Here's why.

1) EPA has announced it's intention to regulate carbon emissions, with it's final ruling.
2) Bipartisan support in the Senate is there, the House bill passed already.
3) Business leaders are calling for it. Even for those against a price on carbon, regulation by the EPA is much worse. Industry can lobby for more concessions in the Senate than they can with the EPA.

 

[FiveParadox]

Re: Congress to Impose Carbon Tax

Good news, indeed!

Perhaps, once the United States of America wakes up and makes a concerted effort to curb greenhouse gas emissions, then Her Majesty’s Government for Canada might smell the coffee and get on-board. The future of our world (whether for us, our children, or our grandchildren) depends upon a focused effort by all concerned parties to conserve and protect the environment. The preferred method may well be up to debate, but the fact that there is a need to move forward with this is irrefutable.

 

[Ron in Regina]

The USA is Canada's largest trading partner. Whatever they do....we have to follow.
Canada signed onto Kyoto but the USA didn't, so Canada was left out to dry on the
world stage 'cuz it had to follow the USA. That's just the was it is.

Canada is the tail to the American dog in matters of trade. If the USA adopts
something like what Tonington describes in the opening post....Canada will
follow not because it wants to, but because it has to.

America has 10x the population that Canada does....and is the only country that
Canada shares a border (& in this case...borders) with.

About 80% of Canada's trade is with the U.S. but only about 20% of U.S. trade is
with Canada. Oh well....I hope our neighbours have our best in mind also as we'll
be on board with the program whether we like it or not.

 

[lone wolf]

It's been that way ever since John A tried selling Uncle Sam the Canadian Pacific Railway

 

[Tonington]

It's this wait and see approach that is the problem though Ron. We're doing nothing, and if we're always playing catch up, we miss out on the opportunities in developing the technology, we miss opportunities to create employment and increase our productivity, we suffer a weaker negotiating platform, and we're more at the whims of outside influence.

We relinquish some of our sovereign control of our own destiny by waiting for everyone else to jump in the pool.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Canada will do whatever the USA does. We signed Kyoto, and Mr. Clinton wasn't
interested. Look what happened. I'll bet you a nickel that we do whatever America
decides we'll need to do in this matter. We're both relatively young. We can wait
for the outcome...& then there's PayPal for a $0.05Cnd funds bet. :lol::lol::lol:

If you're interested? 8O

 

[Tonington]

Canada should work in concert with America. We shouldn't simply do whatever they do. Their cap and trade will not be considering Canada's conditions at all. If we simply replicate, we're missing our own opportunities which given the different climates will present very different opportunities and challenges. We need to consider our own strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Ron in Regina]

I can appreciate what you're saying, & I'm all for national pride, but I'm calling it as
I see it.....and I could be wrong and you could be five cents wealthier? 8O

I just think the reality is a bit different. That's all. :canada:

 

[DurkaDurka]

I'm saving up all my carbons for a sunny day

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Canada will do whatever the USA does. We signed Kyoto, and Mr. Clinton wasn't
interested. Look what happened. I'll bet you a nickel that we do whatever America
decides we'll need to do in this matter. We're both relatively young. We can wait
for the outcome...& then there's PayPal for a $0.05Cnd funds bet. :lol::lol::lol:

If you're interested? 8O

Well, there is one difference now compared to when Clinton was the president. Both Clinton and Chrétien shared the same, left of centre philosophy. Now, while Obama belongs to left of center, Harper belongs to the right (though he is governing from the centre right, I think only because he doesn’t have the majority).

So I don’t think Harper will automatically follow Obama. Especially if Obama does something to try to improve the environment (like cap and trade), I don’t see Harper following suit, the anti-environment lobby in Conservative Party is just too strong.

So far Harper has shown himself to be an ardent, uncompromising foe of environment and he is not about to change just because Obama sings on to cap and trade, or whatever comes out of Copenhagen.

 

[Ron in Regina]

I don't think this has anything to do with left or right....or what party is in power in
either country....as that doesn't change the numbers, or that relationship with
respect to our populations or our positions on the globe or any real difference
in the percentages of trade conducted with each other....

 

[Tonington]

I can appreciate what you're saying, & I'm all for national pride, but I'm calling it as
I see it.....and I could be wrong and you could be five cents wealthier? 8O

I just think the reality is a bit different. That's all. :canada:

Well, put it this way. Imagine that the American program has specific plans to get emissions reductions in equal amounts from transportation, buildings, electrical generation, and agriculture.

American transportation is different. Larger cities, better regional rapid transit, less rural. What works for them won't be what's best in Canada which is spread out, has few large cities, and very little regional rapid transit.

American buildings are in areas with a warmer climate. Their plan will have more emphasis on cooling the buildings, while Canadian building codes will likely have to make gains in heating efficiency.

ELectrical generation, Here's Canada:

For America, conventional thermal would make up the blue part, and hydro about half of the yellow. In short, very different.

The long and short is, the low hanging fruit in America is not the same as the low hanging fruit in Canada. We cannot replicate their plan and have the same outcomes. We need to tailor our plan, to our own circumstances. We can have the same targets, but we can't have the same plan.

 

[Ron in Regina]

I could be wrong. I've been wrong before, & I'll be wrong again. Lets wait and
see what happens. Whatever it is, it'll be a great photo op with smiles and
hand shakes....even if we're grabbing our ankles while this is happening.

 

[Tonington]

Let me be clear, I think it's very likely that we would agree to similar targets, and perhaps even a similar system, (cap and trade as opposed to a carbon tax). All I'm saying is that we can't duplicate the system the Americans come up with and expect similar results. Whatever plan we come up with must be tailored to our circumstances. To do otherwise is to plan to fail. It's still a plan, just not a very good one.

 

[ironsides]

Here's why.

1) EPA has announced it's intention to regulate carbon emissions, with it's final ruling.
2) Bipartisan support in the Senate is there, the House bill passed already.
3) Business leaders are calling for it. Even for those against a price on carbon, regulation by the EPA is much worse. Industry can lobby for more concessions in the Senate than they can with the EPA.

And with that we will have increased unemployment and this so called recover will carry on well into the next century. This will raise the cost of moving/trucking everything. It is a no win for the people.

"Recession is when your neighbor loses his job.
Depression is when you lose yours.
And recovery is when Obama loses his."

If the U.S. adapts this co2 tax, it won't matter what Canada does, they will be paying the same higher prices we do, maybe even more.

 

[Tonington]

They said the same thing about removing lead from gasoline, and sulphur from industrial emissions. They said the same thing about CFC/HFC, but DuPont came up with a method of refrigeration that is actually cheaper.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

And with that we will have increased unemployment and this so called recover will carry on well into the next century. This will raise the cost of moving/trucking everything. It is a no win for the people.

"Recession is when your neighbor loses his job.
Depression is when you lose yours.
And recovery is when Obama loses his."

If the U.S. adapts this co2 tax, it won't matter what Canada does, they will be paying the same higher prices we do, maybe even more.

That is an old chestnut ironsides, the one Reagan used against Carter. Surely Republicans can come up with something new. I would have thought Republicans would have more imagination than that.

 

[ironsides]

And food prices went up, society can never adjust to a so called CO2 tax, it has no limits. As was mentioned earlier in another forum average Canadians seem to be richer than average Americans and for some reason allowed their goverment to get away with higher taxes. (Not trying to start a controversy, but prices for just about everything are higher in Canada.) The impact will effect Americans more than any industrialized nation, with this drop in economy there are already longer food lines and less food to hand out. The old chestnuts are ripening.

 

[Tonington]

The impact will effect Americans more than any industrialized nation, with this drop in economy there are already longer food lines and less food to hand out.

Not according to your Congressional Budget Office. If you can point to an economic analysis less objective than the CBO's, by all means lets see it posted here.

 

[ironsides]

Here are a couple of examples of what is happening now and has been happening past couple of years. It is only getting worse.. Goverment is just covering it up.

City Harvest reveals grim numbers about longer lines at New York's food pantries and soup kitchens

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/bronx/2009/11/25/2009-11-25_many_more_mouths_longer_lines_at_pantries__soup_kitchens.html

Don't Call It a Recession: Soup Lines Getting Longer

Don't Call It a Recession: Soup Lines Getting Longer | 92510 | East Bay Express