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Stuff I didn't know

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Nuggler
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#1Jul 2nd, 2009
And it has to do with gun control and registration. From an American. Interesting read, and here's some stuff:

The system is so bad that six Canadian provinces (British Columbia joins Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, Nova Scotia, and Ontario) are refusing to prosecute firearm owners who fail to register.86
• A bill to abolish the registry has been tabled (introduced) in the Canadian Parliament, which if passed, would eliminate the registry completely.87
• A Saskatchewan MP who endorsed the long gun registry when first proposed has introduced legislation to abolish it stating that, “[the registry] has not saved one life in Canada, and it has been a financial sinkhole … absolutely useless in helping locate the 255,000 people who have been prohibited from owning firearms by the courts.”


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I knew the system was a useless money sinkhole, but not that some provinces are refusing to prosecute...........good job, provinces.

So now, when I refuse to renew my Possession Only Certificate, no ones coming knocking to take by guns..............? Ya think??

The ArceyMP is in charge of this, so I could well get tasered to death........
 
Liberalman
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#2

Re: Stuff I didn't know

Jul 2nd, 2009
gun registry works because the person that owns it can get charged more quickly for the crime
 
Liberalman
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#3

Re: Stuff I didn't know

Jul 2nd, 2009
The gunmaker should be charged with murder if their product is used for a killing of aninnocent person.
 
Dexter Sinister
No Party Affiliation
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#4

Re: Stuff I didn't know

Jul 2nd, 2009
Quote: Originally Posted by LiberalmanView Post

gun registry works because the person that owns it can get charged more quickly for the crime

Sure, assuming the crime was committed with a registered weapon, which isn't usually the case. The gun registry's been a boondoggle from start to finish.
Quote:

The gunmaker should be charged with murder if their product is used for a killing of an innocent person.

Oh right, then we can start charging car manufacturers for every road death, sporting goods and lumber companies every time someone gets bludgeoned to death with a baseball bat, knife manufacturers any time someone's stabbed to death... You might want to rethink that silly idea.
 
Liberalman
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#5

Re: Stuff I didn't know

Jul 2nd, 2009
Quote:

The gun registry's been a boondoggle from start to finish


Boondoggle a conservative phrase.
Registry does work because when it is completed then anyone who is not registered will get charged and people that don’t register their guns are the criminal.

Gun makers products kill people that is their purpose fo they have to be charged
 
petros
#6

Re: Stuff I didn't know

Jul 2nd, 2009
Quote: Originally Posted by LiberalmanView Post

The gunmaker should be charged with murder if their product is used for a killing of aninnocent person.

-- Sarah was freaked out by that thought....
 
taxslave
No Party Affiliation
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#7

Re: Stuff I didn't know

Jul 2nd, 2009
Quote: Originally Posted by LiberalmanView Post

Boondoggle a conservative phrase.
Registry does work because when it is completed then anyone who is not registered will get charged and people that don’t register their guns are the criminal.

Gun makers products kill people that is their purpose fo they have to be charged

Wrong on all counts. We are talking about long guns here which are used for hunting and recreation.Most crimes are committed with hand guns that are not registered. Just because you happen to not register a piece of private property with some government agency does not make you a criminal. So far all this boondoggle has done is create a lot of good paying government jobs in a riding that is short on employment and long on votes.
Scrap it now.
 
petros
#8

Re: Stuff I didn't know

Jul 2nd, 2009
Quote:

Most crimes are committed with hand guns that are not registered.

Knives! By a long shot (pun intended).
 
Dexter Sinister
No Party Affiliation
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#9

Re: Stuff I didn't know

Jul 3rd, 2009
Quote: Originally Posted by LiberalmanView Post

Boondoggle a conservative phrase.

Irrelevant even if true, which it's not. It's a word, not a phrase, and it's a perfectly good word, conservatives don't own it.
Quote:

Registry does work because when it is completed then anyone who is not registered will get charged and people that don’t register their guns are the criminal.

That's your evidence that it works? It's been in place for over 5 years now, can you point to a significant reduction in crimes committed with guns in this country?
Quote:

Gun makers products kill people that is their purpose fo they have to be charged

There are perfectly legitimate uses for guns, they're not just for killing people. Car maker's products kill people too, far more than guns do in fact, but that's no more their purpose than it's the purpose of guns. You can kill people with pretty much anything, if you're so inclined. You have the seed of a possibly legitimate argument here, there certainly are guns whose primary purpose is as anti-personnel weapons. Those are generally essential military hardware, and the case could probably be made that no private citizen has any legitimate use for an assault rifle, but generalizing the argument to all guns invalidates it. The anti-gun lobby needs a little more nuance before I'll take it seriously.
 
petros
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#10

Re: Stuff I didn't know

Jul 3rd, 2009
boondoggle


N. Amer. informal
• noun an unnecessary, wasteful, or fraudulent project.
• verb waste money or time on such projects. — ORIGIN of unknown origin.

If the Oxford doesn't know the origin, nobody does.
 
bobnoorduyn
Free Thinker
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#11

Re: Stuff I didn't know

Jul 3rd, 2009
Quote: Originally Posted by NugglerView Post

So now, when I refuse to renew my Possession Only Certificate, no ones coming knocking to take by guns..............? Ya think??

Probably not, you will likely get a series of nastygrams from Miramachi. The Globe ran this story last week, and of course the association of police chiefs, (along with Wendy Cukier's group, who were paid close to $400,000 by the Liberals) supported the program. I have a problem with police writing and supporting laws that give them that much power over the citizenry. Firearms are the only things private citizens need a license to own. Needing a license means a freedom can be revoked summarily and without due process.
 
DurkaDurka
No Party Affiliation
#12

Re: Stuff I didn't know

Jul 3rd, 2009
Quote: Originally Posted by LiberalmanView Post

gun registry works because the person that owns it can get charged more quickly for the crime

right, and how often do registered gun holders commit crimes with their weapons?
 
JLM
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#13

Re: Stuff I didn't know

Jul 3rd, 2009
Quote: Originally Posted by DurkaDurkaView Post

right, and how often do registered gun holders commit crimes with their weapons?

Probably about 0.0000001% more often than never.
 
jjaycee98
Conservative
#14

Re: Stuff I didn't know

Jul 3rd, 2009
Criminals will not Register hence your statement is flawed. Correct though in cases of domestic violence or problems between aquaintances. These are rare though and do not warrant the millions of cost. Old fashioned police work would track these down.
 
Dexter Sinister
No Party Affiliation
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#15

Re: Stuff I didn't know

Jul 3rd, 2009
Quote: Originally Posted by bobnoorduynView Post

Needing a license means a freedom can be revoked summarily and without due process.

No, it just means it's a privilege you have to qualify for, not a right you're granted automatically. You want to drive a car, practice medicine or law, call yourself a professional engineer, or a variety of other things, you have to prove you can do it to certain standards. Due process certainly applies to revocations once you've earned the license.
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
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#16

Stuff I didn't know

Jul 3rd, 2009
In 2008, Police across Canada, pulled information from the Canadian Firearms
Registry On-line over 9,400 times per day. That adds up to a staggering 3,438,729
queries from police officers last year.
( Source: -- )

Has anyone here been able to find numbers that show how many crimes have been
solved in Canada due to the gun registry (either handgun or long gun) ???
 
petros
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#17

Re: Stuff I didn't know

Jul 3rd, 2009
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter SinisterView Post

No, it just means it's a privilege you have to qualify for, not a right you're granted automatically. You want to drive a car, practice medicine or law, call yourself a professional engineer, or a variety of other things, you have to prove you can do it to certain standards. Due process certainly applies to revocations once you've earned the license.

"Submitting an application for license" is identical to saying "I'm giving in to be regulated and begging for permission for this regualtion " thus side stepping any natural right.

Check out Black's Law and Oxford English Dictionaries and see for yourself.

Using those two books will give you a whole new outlook on the english used in law.
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
#18

Stuff I didn't know

Jul 3rd, 2009
There's a lot of Regina Boys on this Thread.
 
petros
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#19

Re: Stuff I didn't know

Jul 3rd, 2009
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter SinisterView Post

You want to drive a car, ....or a variety of other things, you have to prove you can do it to certain standards. Due process certainly applies to revocations once you've earned the license.

What does it mnean to drive? What is a car, is it a motor vehicle? Trains have cars but can you "drive" one? Do you need a license to drive cattle? How about a nail? Are nails motor vehicles? What about a finger nail?
 
Dexter Sinister
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#20

Re: Stuff I didn't know

Jul 3rd, 2009
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

"Submitting an application for license" is identical to ... side stepping any natural right.

You're conflating rights and privileges. They're not the same thing, the argument's meaningless.
 
ironsides
No Party Affiliation
#21

Re: Stuff I didn't know

Jul 3rd, 2009
Quote: Originally Posted by LiberalmanView Post

The gunmaker should be charged with murder if their product is used for a killing of aninnocent person.


No, then you may as well charge makers of baseball bats, automakers etc.
 
ironsides
No Party Affiliation
#22

Re: Stuff I didn't know

Jul 3rd, 2009
Quote: Originally Posted by LiberalmanView Post

gun registry works because the person that owns it can get charged more quickly for the crime


Should you register the gun or the person?
 
bobnoorduyn
Free Thinker
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#23

Re: Stuff I didn't know

Jul 3rd, 2009
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter SinisterView Post

No, it just means it's a privilege you have to qualify for, not a right you're granted automatically. You want to drive a car, practice medicine or law, call yourself a professional engineer, or a variety of other things, you have to prove you can do it to certain standards. Due process certainly applies to revocations once you've earned the license.

Rights aren't granted, privileges are. First, the right to carry a pistol was taken away and it was made a privilege. Then in the late '70's the right to "buy or aquire" any firearm was taken away, but we still had the right to own them. In the 90's even the right to own firearms was taken away.

You don't need a license to drive a car on your own property, or to own one. The practises of medicine or law have their own governing bodies, not the government. A license granted by the government can be suspended without due process, your driver's license can be suspended immediately in some provinces for blowing over .05, there is no due process, no evidentiary hearings, nothing, you can be left stranded on the road. The CFO can revoke, suspend, or refuse to renew a firearm license and you have to fight to get it back.

Again, privileges are granted, rights and freedoms have to be fought for.
 
bobnoorduyn
Free Thinker
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#24

Re: Stuff I didn't know

Jul 3rd, 2009
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Probably about 0.0000001% more often than never.

I would quote the stat on that but don't have it handy, but it was substantially higher, if I remember correctly it was about .03%. But these are for "firearm offenses", that could mean anything from improper storage to the RCMP member who had a hissy fit and emptied her Glock into her bedroom wall, (yes that did happen), to the guys jacking deer while drunk and accidently shot one of their buddies. They didn't elaborate.

But still, .03% is a miniscule number.
 
bobnoorduyn
Free Thinker
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#25

Re: Stuff I didn't know

Jul 3rd, 2009
Another thing that people miss, the registry and license are different. Though there is a push to end the registry it is not the most sinister part of what the Liberals put into place, the licensing is. The law is full of "gotcha's", no one understands it, it was enacted to control Kim Campbell, not guns. No one ever believed it would reduce crime or get illicit firearms off the streets, it was meant to flabbergast ordinary citizens into disarming themselves. If there were any validity to it the Liberals would not have had to pay a lobby group, the Coalition for Gun Control, to doctor the stats to make a case for their cause, a cause Trudeau tried to push 20 years earlier. So wrong were the stats espoused by the CGC and Liberals that the then RCMP commissioner, (whose name escapes me) wrote a letter of protest. It is a bad and unjust law now being disrespected by many who see it for what it is and just aren't renewing their licenses. A law that makes criminals out of people who do nothing and cause no harm can only be supported by those with totalitarian leanings.
 
YukonJack
Conservative
#26

Re: Stuff I didn't know

Jul 3rd, 2009
"The gunmaker should be charged with murder if their product is used for a killing of aninnocent person."

And let us not forget the mining company who produced the iron ore for the manufacture of the gun. The steel company who produced the steel. The company who produced the cars that the workers of these companies used to go to work.

And let us not forget to charge the companies that produced clothes these people wore. How about charging everyone except, of course, the one who actually pulled the trigger. In most cases it would be RACIST.

LIBERALMAN, recently you tried to fool us that you are a conservative. But your quote above clearly indicates that you are a totally unrepentant LIBERAL.
 
Colpy
Conservative
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#27

Re: Stuff I didn't know

Jul 3rd, 2009
Quote: Originally Posted by LiberalmanView Post

gun registry works because the person that owns it can get charged more quickly for the crime

Yep. That's right.

IF he uses a registered gun, which hardly ever happens.

And IF that gun can be matched to one in the registry......quite unlikely, surprizingly enough.

And IF, on the rare occassion that the gun used is actually registered, it is registered to the person that actually used it! An occurance practically unheard of!

And IF the registry is accurate enough to hold up as evidence in court, which is EXTREMELY doubtful.

The registry is simply NOT USED to solve crime mysteries.

Full stop.
 
Colpy
Conservative
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#28

Re: Stuff I didn't know

Jul 3rd, 2009
Quote: Originally Posted by LiberalmanView Post

The gunmaker should be charged with murder if their product is used for a killing of aninnocent person.

Yeah right.

What stupidity!!!

If I stab somebody with a butcher knife, should the knife manufacturer be charged?

How about if I get drunk, get in my car, and run down an innocent.......should all involved be charged? The booze maker, the Liquor Control Board, the car manufacturer, the gas station..........

Idiotic in the extreme.

we are responsible for our own actions.
 
ironsides
No Party Affiliation
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#29

Re: Stuff I didn't know

Jul 3rd, 2009
The most important thing about gun registry is that it may stop some psycho from getting a gun. If they are smart they will get one anyway or steal it from a registered user. Registration only gives law enforcement a place to start looking. Colpy is right very doubtful that a registered user would use a gun during the commission of a crime.
 
bobnoorduyn
Free Thinker
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#30

Re: Stuff I didn't know

Jul 3rd, 2009
Quote: Originally Posted by ironsidesView Post

The most important thing about gun registry is that it may stop some psycho from getting a gun.


No it won't, it only records the firearms registered by legitimate owners, it matters not if they are psycho, or if they are even in posession at the time. Vehicle registration only tells who owns the thing, not where it is, who is driving it, or what their intentions are.


Quote: Originally Posted by ironsidesView Post

If they are smart they will get one anyway or steal it from a registered user.

They don't even need to be smart for that.


Quote: Originally Posted by ironsidesView Post

Registration only gives law enforcement a place to start looking.

Yup, and the first thing they do is blame the owner, if they started doing that with the owners of stolen vehicles there would be rioting in the streets. This law is about disarming citizens, period. We are being threatened with criminal prosecution unless we disarm or keep our firearms rendered unuseable in our own homes while punks run amok on our streets, and in our homes. The government wants us defensless, dependent upon it which cannot defend us, but will control us none the less. We are a sorry lot.
 

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