Omar Khadr....

dancing-loon
#1
Khadr's interrogators told to destroy notes, lawyer says

June 8, 2008 at 8:23 PM EDT
OTTAWA — Interrogators at Guantanamo Bay – including those assigned to Canadian Omar Khadr – were encouraged to destroy handwritten notes from interview sessions to protect them from future legal action, according to newly released documents.

A “standard Operating Procedure” manual for “Intelligence exploitation teams” operating at Guantanamo Bay – codenamed “Tiger Teams” – was shown to Mr. Khadr's U.S. military defence lawyer, Lieutenant-Commander Bill Kuebler, late last week.

“This mission has legal and political issues that may lead to interrogators being called to testify, keeping the number of documents with interrogation information to a minimum can minimize certain legal issues,” the manual states, according to an affidavit filed by LCdr. Kuebler.

The revelation is another in a long line of documents, findings and events that have cast the Guantanamo Bay legal proceedings in a less than flattering light. That interrogators were instructed to destroy their handwritten notes is of particular importance to Mr. Khadr, because much of the case against him is believed to rely on what he said during some of those interrogation sessions.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home
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Didn't the handwritten notes from their doodle pads get transfered into some file? What are they accusing him off, if they can't even prove anything? But then, we are not dealing with a proper court!!!

I wonder why they even bother?
 
gopher
No Party Affiliation
+1
#2  Top Rated Post
Yup. That's the Republican regime for you.
 
gopher
No Party Affiliation
+1
#3
Gee, no reply for the forum's right wingers yet again.

What would have been their response if it had been USA or Canadian troops tortured by Muslim troops? Inju8stice is wrong, no matter who the victim might be.
 
dancing-loon
+1
#4
Sorry gopher, to disappoint you....
It feels like the forum is dying! I'm preparing myself to leave.


Maybe the next pres will give those poor souls in Guantanamo and Iraq/Afghanistan a pardon. That would be a first step to lighten America's image.

I had to laugh today as I was looking around and saw the Name McLame!! I don't expect much good will be coming from him.
 
dancing-loon
#5
I think we have at least another thread going on Omar, but this one looks forlorn, so... I will drop my little bomb here!
Quote:

Explosive new documents suggest Canada was aware of the harsh treatment that Canadian terror suspect Omar Khadr was being subjected to in Guantanamo Bay at the hands of U.S. military interrogators.

A Canadian Citizen, a boy still... and we didn't help him!!! I bet my house and home... if it had been the son of any of our Prime Ministers, he would not be sitting in Guantanamo defending himself against a bunch of crooks and liars!
Justice... just a silly word! It all depends who you are and who you know!

Another bomb...
Quote:

But Prime Minister Stephen Harper, speaking Thursday in Tokyo, Japan following this week's G8 meetings, said Canada had little say in the situation and has no intention of interfering.

Put the blame on Paul Martin! It's all his doing!
Quote:

Harper distanced his government from the documents. He said former prime minister Paul Martin's government was aware of how Khadr was being treated, but there was little that could have been done. "The previous government took a whole range, all of the information into account when they made the decision on how to proceed with the Khadr case several years ago,'' he said.
Harper added that Canada: "frankly, has no real alternative'' to the U.S. legal process.

However, Khadr's U.S, military lawyer, Lt.-Cmdr. William Kuebler, put the blame squarely on Harper's shoulders. He said the U.S. would probably have complied with a request from Harper to have Khadr transferred into Canadian custody -- but the request hasn't been made.

http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/abc..._harper_080710
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the poodle got replaced with a new-found twin....
Last edited by dancing-loon; Jul 10th, 2008 at 11:24 AM..Reason: beautifying
 
Just the Facts
Free Thinker
#6
Help him? He was fighting against Canadian forces. That's treason. His only saving grace is his age, otherwise we should be helping him to the gallows.
 
Socrates the Greek
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by dancing-loonView Post

I think we have at least another thread going on Omar, but this one looks forlorn, so... I will drop my little bomb here!A Canadian Citizen, a boy still... and we didn't help him!!! I bet my house and home... if it had been the son of any of our Prime Ministers, he would not be sitting in Guantanamo defending himself against a bunch of crooks and liars!
Justice... just a silly word! It all depends who you are and who you know!

Another bomb...Put the blame on Paul Martin! It's all his doing! http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/abc..._harper_080710
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the poodle got replaced with a new-found twin....

Pathetic losers.
 
dancing-loon
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by Just the FactsView Post

Help him? He was fighting against Canadian forces. That's treason. His only saving grace is his age, otherwise we should be helping him to the gallows.

He didn't kill a Canadian! Whether he killed an American is very unclear, most likely not. But we have been over this story before... and there is no sense in arguing with someone who is deadset against him!

It is my opinion, if Canada wants to have peace in the country and reconcile itself with the Muslim community, then a kind gesture would go miles towards understanding, tolerance and generally getting along with each other. This way, sitting on a high and mighty horse, and pretend nothing could and can't be done, we shoot ourselves in the foot!!!
 
dancing-loon
#9
Thanks, Socrates, at least you got clear eyesight! I fully agree with you.... super pathetic loosers!
 
Just the Facts
Free Thinker
#10
It doesn't matter if he killed anybody. It doesn't matter if he even fired a shot. He took up arms against us. That's enough.
 
EagleSmack
#11
Oh the bleeding hearts.

Like I said before. We should let him go and Canada should have a ticker tape parade for the sweet little al-queda fighter.

"He was just touring the world, the poor little baby. Bless his little heart."
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by Just the FactsView Post

It doesn't matter if he killed anybody. It doesn't matter if he even fired a shot. He took up arms against us. That's enough.

He took up arms allegedly against the empire JTF, look arround and try to understand where you actually live. He took up arms for us, allegdedly. He should be released immeadiately and harper offered up to take his place, the yankee pig dogs can do what they want with that deviant godwhack.
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

Oh the bleeding hearts.

Like I said before. We should let him go and Canada should have a ticker tape parade for the sweet little al-queda fighter.

"He was just touring the world, the poor little baby. Bless his little heart."

We'll examine your empathy soon enough when your countrymen are rounded up en masse and put to trial which the planet sorely requires if justice is to mean anything at all in the age of crap you call the American century.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by Just the FactsView Post

Help him? He was fighting against Canadian forces. That's treason. His only saving grace is his age, otherwise we should be helping him to the gallows.

Absolutely correct...........except that other saving grace......the unconstitutional nature of his trial, clearly forbidden by the fifth amendment to the US Constitution. And that is ignoring the fact that his judge, who ruled in his favour, was forced out on his retirement birthday, even though he wanted to carry on to the end of the trial.

This becomes, as I said, Kafkaesque.

I'd have loved it if the US had shot him dead on the spot (in combat) or if they had turned him over as a foreign fighter to the Afghans, who could have shot him......but that didn't happen.

Now the thing has become such a farce that Canada should step in and request his release.

Quote:

Quoting EagleSmack (external - login to view) Oh the bleeding hearts.

Like I said before. We should let him go and Canada should have a ticker tape parade for the sweet little al-queda fighter.

"He was just touring the world, the poor little baby. Bless his little heart."

And that is EXACTLY what would happen, and it makes me sick.

It is just that the alternative is worse.
 
EagleSmack
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

We'll examine your empathy soon enough when your countrymen are rounded up en masse and put to trial which the planet sorely requires if justice is to mean anything at all in the age of crap you call the American century.

Now will this round up take place after the up and coming Second US Civil War to be occuring in the 3rd Quarter of this year that you predicted or after Bush declares Martial Law and Ruler for Life. Oh wait you predicted we would be under martial law and him President for life for the spring of 2008.

Any more silly predictions?
 
MikeyDB
#16
People pick sides....!

Canada through its government chose to engage the Taliban in Afghanistan as though it were the duty of Canada and Canadians to rise to the defense of American pipeline interests.... When Bush declared anyone who harbors terrorists as an enemy of America, our government wasn't clever enough to see through the scam being perpetrated that would permit American energy interests to secure a "right of way" through Afghanistan... We as Canadians chose to throw our support behind a liar and a fraud. Omar Khadar (a young impressionable fellow...) decided to throw his support behind something he believed in....(perhaps).....

So we have Stephen Harper aligning Canada with a political regime in America that's demonstrated that they're prepared to lie to the world, re-write the Geneva Conventions and rape and pillage a land in the name of oil and American "interests"....

We as Canadians through our governmen are on the "side" of an American regime that has demostrated its preparedness to implement torture as a methodology in obtaining "intelligence"...after of course the myth of WMDs......

We picked sides.....
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

Now will this round up take place after the up and coming Second US Civil War to be occuring in the 3rd Quarter of this year that you predicted or after Bush declares Martial Law and Ruler for Life. Oh wait you predicted we would be under martial law and him President for life for the spring of 2008.

Any more silly predictions?

Yes, you will actually find out which way is up.
 
dancing-loon
#18
Liberal senator and ex-general Romeo Dallaire says the government is undermining efforts to eradicate the use of child soldiers, by refusing to bring Omar Khadr into the Canadian justice system.

Dallaire said Khadr is a child soldier and should be given the same rehabilitation and treatment that Canada has devoted to other child soldiers around the world.

"We're getting stabbed in the back," Dallaire told CTV Newsnet on Wednesday. "We have worked for years to assist other nations in eradicating the use of children in conflict. But our own country doesn't even want to recognize that our own citizen (is a child soldier). No matter what his politics are, it's totally irrelevant. He's a child soldier that was abused and he's a child soldier that needs to be brought back into a formal process we signed up for."

Dallaire said the interrogation video released Tuesday shows a "traumatized 16-year-old" who is being held in an "illegal jail," and is an argument why Canada should use its own justice system to try Khadr.

"It is all the reason why we have fought for establishing the optional protocol on child rights, so that children are not used in combat operations," said Dallaire.
He added there was a "disconnect between what we believe are human rights, the rights of children and our judicial system, and this position taken by the prime minister in regards to a process that is considered by the American supreme court as inappropriate."

http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/abc...soldier_080716
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I hope Dallaire puts enough pressure on hardhearted Stephen Harper to shame him into action!!
 
YoungJoonKim
#19
I would see to it that Khadr's family to be re-indoctrinated. They need serious help.
 
Praxius
Free Thinker
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by Just the FactsView Post

It doesn't matter if he killed anybody.

Which any evidence in that situation is currently questionable and there is a lot of reasonable doubt.

Quote:

It doesn't matter if he even fired a shot.

Which apparently never happened, as he is suspected of tossing a grenade. And about that.... if he was actually fighting the US troops, why didn't he have a weapon? Do you seriously think they would only give the kid One Grenade to use in a fight?

Apparently by the US's information, that's what they did..... if he did kill the medic, he used one grenade.... a grenade..... when most children brought into the Taliban or just in general culture, children are usually given an AK as soon as they can pick one up... so why did he only have one grenade to fight US troops with?

Which leads more to the side that the second guy they killed that they omitted from their reports was the one who threw it..... once again, reasonable doubt.

Quote:

He took up arms against us. That's enough.

Wrong... that is what is in question, and so long as you keep on that mentality of "Guilty until proven innocent" like the US is doing, then you'll never know what truly happened.... you'll just know what the US wants you to hear that suits their own agenda.

So basically your entire post I quoted is false and unfounded at this stage in the game, and is little more the emotional dribble based on no evidence.
 
Praxius
Free Thinker
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

Oh the bleeding hearts.

Like I said before. We should let him go and Canada should have a ticker tape parade for the sweet little al-queda fighter.

"He was just touring the world, the poor little baby. Bless his little heart."

Geez, for someone who claims to have been in the Marines, I would have expected you would have a little shred of education on what Child Soldiers are and what should be done with them under the UN's charter of human rights.

First you have to prove he actually tossed the grenade... secondly if found guilty of that, he is classified as a child soldier.... thirdly, a child soldier should be re-introduced back into society and try and make them not a total loss.

But your and every other ignorant's view on this situation, has not only ignored human rights, the classification of a child soldier, and just want to jump ahead to him being an adult, a terrorist, and guilty without a legal trial..... because it's easier, and it helps the US propaganda machine to show the public just how evil they are for having kids in their forces fighting as terrorists......

..... Oh yeah, that's right.... Innocent until proven guilty.

You know something.... I'd probably throw him the damn parade just to piss you and every other US citizen and official off, just for creating this BS mess in the first place.... and if that's what you guys expect us to do.... why the hell not?

It's funny how many here would defend and sob over Brenda Martin's detainment in Mexico for her shady involvment with ripping that country off.... then you all fought to get her sent here to Canada, just to be let back out on the streets like nothing ever happened...... and then you're all willing and able to toss this kid to the lions because of what the US tells us he did, based on their screwed up and edited information.

An old sobbing media playing bag who had more evidence proving her guilt then anything get's the whole country backing her up.... and soon enough we'll get a movie from her stupid story.

Then we have a 15 year old boy brought over by his radical father to the border of Afghanistan and Pakistan to be brainwashed into what he does, got in the wrong place at the wrong time, US soldiers shoot him twice in the back as he coward into the corner, and they put the blame on him for something the evidence is proving as false.... sent him to Cuba to be tortured and threatened with rape, attacks from guard dogs, moving him every 3 hours to deprive him of proper sleep, falsified documents..... and half the country wants to hang him...... regardless that if he actually did it, he would be classified as a child soldier, and Canada itself has signed onto that agreement to reconize children soldiers and to rehabilitate them..... oh.... but since he's a citizen of our nation, he doesn't diserve the same treatment?

Seriously how fokked is that?

The thing I love the most, is that I couldn't care less if he was innocent or guilty of what he is charged with..... all I care about is a fair and open trial to find out if he did or not...... as many others want to happen.

Oh but I guess since there are people who believe in due process and a fair trial, we all must want him to be freed and we'll make him into a hero or something. If a fair trial will set him free, then apparently that's expressing the truth to what happened based on the evidence, and he was truly innocent..... but you guys all think and want him to be guilty, therefore if he goes through a fair trial, he'll be set free and you guys won't get your vengance.

Who's the real terrorists?
 
earth_as_one
#22
Do you know what the difference is between watching an interrogation video and a torture tape? It’s the difference between watching a video of someone being interviewed after they have been raped, and watching the actual video of the rape.

What Khadr did or didn't do is beside the point. He is a Canadian citizen held in a foreign prison where he has been tortured. Case closed as far as I'm concerned. I expect the Canadian government to help Canadians in situations like Khadr. The Canadian government should not be able to pick and choose which Canadians they allow to be tortured. We should be able to rely on our government to fight to ensure Canadians are treated fairly and humanely by foreign governments including the US. What is happening to Khadr affects every single Canadian, living in Canada and abroad.

If Khadr is guilty of any crime, then he should be held accountable. Since he was fighting against a Canadian allie when he was captured, he is probably guilty of treason. I disagree that a soldier during a battle in a war should be tried for murder when they kill their adversary. I disagree with torturing POWs.

If we allow these things, then our adversaries can justify torturing captured Canadian soldiers and executing them for murder. What are we to say in response? We can do these things legally but you can't???? What goes around, comes around.

The way the US treats its adversaries violates nearly every treaty and convention related to war.

Any future punishment of Khadr should take into account his age, time served and his cruel and unusual treatment while in US custody. He should not be released from custody until he is no longer consdier a threat. Because of his cruel and unusual treatment, Khadr may remain a risk to society indefinitely.

It's really sad that Canada's closest allie has joined the ranks of Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria, Iran and Israel as countries which practice torture.

Quote:

May 23, 2008 by Associated Press (external - login to view)
Rice Defends Post 9/11 Torture

by Matthew Lee

MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif. - Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Thursday defended tough interrogation techniques for terrorism suspects approved by the Bush administration in the wake of 9/11, saying they were necessary to protect America from new attacks....

I agree with General Romeo Dallaire:

Quote:

Canada sinking to level of al Qaeda: Dallaire
Updated Tue. May. 13 2008

...Dallaire, whose troubling experiences during the 1994 Rwanda genocide helped make him an outspoken advocate of human rights, said the Khadr case points out a moral equivalence among Canada, the United States and al Qaeda.


The United States is ignoring its own laws in prosecuting Khadr and Canada is betraying itself by not fighting for Khadr's return home, he said.

He said the Americans were acting out of panic after 9/11 and Canada was playing politics and that left them no better than the terrorists.

"The minute you start playing with human rights, with conventions, with civil liberties, in order to say that you're doing it to protect yourself and you are going against those rights and conventions, you are no better than the guy who doesn't believe in them at all,'' he said.

"We are slipping down the slope of going down that same route.''

Tory MP Jason Kenney asked if Dallaire really believes that. He pointed to a number of al Qaeda outrages, including an incident in which the terror group reportedly outfitted mentally challenged young girls with explosive belts and sent them to their deaths in a Baghdad animal market.

"Is it your testimony that al Qaeda strapping up a 14-year-old girl with Down syndrome and sending her into a pet market to be remotely detonated is the moral equivalent to Canada's not making extraordinary political efforts for a transfer of Omar Khadr to this country?'' he asked.

Dallaire was adamant.

"If you want a black and white, and I'm only too prepared to give it to you, absolutely,'' he replied. "You're either with the law or not with the law. You're either guilty or you're not.'' ...

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...80513/20080513

Finally someone with the balls to call it like it is. I am a proud Canadian, but I am ashamed of Canada's behavior regarding Khadr. I fully agree with Dallaire's assessment. We are sliding down a slippery path to a police state if we follow the US.
Last edited by earth_as_one; Jul 18th, 2008 at 09:36 AM..
 
no color
#23
Putting in my two cents ... I personally think this guy needs to do hard time at the very least. He was fighting alongside the very same Taliban terrorists that our Canadian troops are currently battling in Afghanistan. Let me rephrase that ... he was fighting alongside the very same terrorists that are killing our troops. Lock him up and throw away the key ... show no mercy.
 
earth_as_one
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

Absolutely correct...........except that other saving grace......the unconstitutional nature of his trial, clearly forbidden by the fifth amendment to the US Constitution. And that is ignoring the fact that his judge, who ruled in his favour, was forced out on his retirement birthday, even though he wanted to carry on to the end of the trial.

This becomes, as I said, Kafkaesque.

I'd have loved it if the US had shot him dead on the spot (in combat) or if they had turned him over as a foreign fighter to the Afghans, who could have shot him......but that didn't happen.

Now the thing has become such a farce that Canada should step in and request his release.

Quote:

Quoting EagleSmack (external - login to view) Oh the bleeding hearts.

Like I said before. We should let him go and Canada should have a ticker tape parade for the sweet little al-queda fighter.

"He was just touring the world, the poor little baby. Bless his little heart."

And that is EXACTLY what would happen, and it makes me sick.


It is just that the alternative is worse.

I doubt Khadr will get a parade. But his case has finally gotten the publicity it deserves and it exposes the morality and ethics of our government. The Liberals should have done something and they didn't. The neoconservatives had a chance to show they were more moral and ethical than the Liberals. Instead they've indicated that they fully support Khadr's treatment.

The new Liberals finally have taken up Khadr's case and that redeems them somewhat. But its shameful that what's happening now, wasn't happening as soon as Canadian government officials realized that a Canadian citizen was being tortured or was at risk of being tortured.
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#25
Omar Khadr deserves several million euros in compensation. He also deserves the order of Canada for being brave and smart enough to fight the imperial pricks. He's a fine young man, Canada will need many like him in the next few years.
 
DurkaDurka
No Party Affiliation
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

Omar Khadr deserves several million euros in compensation. He also deserves the order of Canada for being brave and smart enough to fight the imperial pricks. He's a fine young man, Canada will need many like him in the next few years.

What the hell is wrong with you?
 
earth_as_one
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by no colorView Post

Putting in my two cents ... I personally think this guy needs to do hard time at the very least. He was fighting alongside the very same Taliban terrorists that our Canadian troops are currently battling in Afghanistan. Let me rephrase that ... he was fighting alongside the very same terrorists that are killing our troops. Lock him up and throw away the key ... show no mercy.

By no mercy, does that mean you believe in torture? Specifically do you believe 15 year olds like Khadr should be tortured?

Most of the Taliban had nothing to do with the events of 9/11. They were the Afghan government and they allied themselves with the people allegedly behind the 9/11 terrorist attack. When Canada declared war on the Taliban, they became our enemies, not terrorists. The Taliban were defending themselves and their country from a foreign invasion force. That is a UN Charter right. People who fight to defend their country from foreign invasion forces are soldiers and therefore protected by international treaties and conventions in my opinion.

I believe in treating captured enemies in accordance with international treaties and conventions.

Khadr was a 15 year old child at the time. That makes him a child soldier. His treatment should have taken his age and status into account. He allied himself with Canada's enemies. That makes him a traitor. I believe in treating traitors in accordance with Canadian law.
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by DurkaDurkaView Post

What the hell is wrong with you?

Gooday DurkaDurka. Wrong! Me WRONG? Post your certificate of rightness and I will assend into the pit of hell and bake for all eternity like like like a potatoe.
 
DurkaDurka
No Party Affiliation
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

Gooday DurkaDurka. Wrong! Me WRONG? Post your certificate of rightness and I will assend into the pit of hell and bake for all eternity like like like a potatoe.

We need more people like Omar Khadr do we Beaver?

You need people like him to fight your proxy war against the evil imperialists? I guess you are too old and feeble to do any fighting of your own.
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by DurkaDurkaView Post

We need more people like Omar Khadr do we Beaver?

You need people like him to fight your proxy war against the evil imperialists? I guess you are too old and feeble to do any fighting of your own.

And what do you need him for Durka? Old and feeble I am, but I can still hone a blade.
We have a fundemental difference of opinion. Stay out of my way. Yes, we need more of him and less of you.
 

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