Omar Khadr....

Liberalman
Free Thinker
#151
khadr did identify a fellow canadian terrorist which was found innocent in this country
that's why he should stay in gitmo
 
Colpy
Conservative
#152
Saturday January 24, 2009


Excuse me while I go throw up.:roll :
 
Liberalman
Free Thinker
#153
Colpy Iam glad to see you agree with me
 
dancing-loon
#154
You two are disgusting ...


rotting brown blobs!!!!
 
Praxius
Free Thinker
#155
Quote: Originally Posted by LiberalmanView Post

khadr did identify a fellow canadian terrorist which was found innocent in this country that's why he should stay in gitmo

Are you even reading what you post?

Someone claimed he identified a Canadian citizen in Afghanistan (after being tortured and threatened with more torture) at a terrorist camp.... in loon's above report, that has been proven false, therefore he was telling them what they wanted to hear.... not exactly the truth. (Which is to be expected from anybody being tortured)

And there is this thing called Innocent until proven guilty..... and for anybody who still believes in this process of law, Arar isn't a fellow Canadian Terrorist, since he has already been proven to have no relations with any terrorist groups..... and nothing has yet been proven about Omar's situation to "Prove" his guilt of being a terrorists as well.

And simply being in cuba, surrounded by other known terrorists, doesn't default you to being a terrorist...... Once again, innocent until proven guilty.

Oh yeah, and did anybody else catch when that little tid bit of information of Omar identifying Arar came about?

It was released right around the same time Arar filed legal action against the US government for what they did to him..... which was a poor attempt to kill two birds with one stone, but casting doubt on both Arar and Omar's innocence...... but yet again, the US has been proven to have lied yet again.

There is so much reasonable doubt in Omar's case, that it's practically impossible to proceed with any decent legal action against him to find any guilt.

If he was thrown through a normal legal proceeding and was found guilty, sure, them the breaks and I would hope he get's the proper treatment for a child soldier..... however the US royally screwed up their golden example they wanted to make and FUBAR'd it so badly with this farce of a court system, that there is no real chance of getting a solid guilty to stick.

I'm sure many would like to see real justice happen in this case and if he's guilty, be punished accordingly.... and if he was guilty, I'd like to see it too...... but as far as I can see it, it can't happen now.

And if he was guilty, whatever his punishment could be for a child soldier, has had that time spent well away through the number of years he has been held in Cuba thus far.

Keeping a 15 year old kid locked away in one of the world's worst known prisons until well into his 20s', for possibly killing one soldier in the heat of a battle should have been punishment enough.

What people want to accomplish by keeping him locked away for the rest of his life for something I believe most everybody else would do if put in the same situation where they needed to defend themselves, is beyond me.

Sure I can see it differently if it was an adult, whom is legally capable of making their own decisions, but we're talking about a kid who was dragged over there by his father..... a decision that he probably never had a chance to have a say in, and even if he did, he was still a minor and therefore the same situation applies.

His father should be charged for the crimes Omar is being charged with, because he was the responsible parent in this situation and brought him over there.......

...... but he's dead now, so it's a witch hunt to put his son in the spotlight to make an example out of him, regardless of the truth or how old he was at the time.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#156
Basically, Praxius, I agree........except for minor points such as Gitmo as "the world's worst prison" (ha!).
 
Praxius
Free Thinker
#157
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

Saturday January 24, 2009


Excuse me while I go throw up.:roll :

While I agree with your view on the above comic, it would appear to be making fun of those who support Omar without question.

The odd thing I find is that I don't remember seeing anybody that defensive of Omar to the point of thinking of him as some kind of hero.

I don't think he's any kind of hero, unless you want to call him a hero for dealing with living in Gitmo for so long.... but everybody I have talked to who want him to be brought back to Canada, do so based on logical reasons which are justified.... much of which are the reasons you listed off above as to why you feel he should be brought back.

I certainly don't plan on giving him a parade or to change the national athem.... I'd just like to see proper law and order be applied, and if it can't be applied, then say so and move on...... nobody, guilty or innocent, should have to go through what the people in Gitmo are going through..... and to subject people to that way of living (If you want to call it living) to satisfy some kind of punishment factor in the mind, isn't any better then stooping to the level of those we all hate in the first place.

When we abandon our own principles and ways of life to make others suffer due to allowing emotions getting ahold of us, we are the exact same as those we all claim to fight.

What are we really fighting for when we hit that point and abandon the sole thing we have been trying to defend?
 
Praxius
Free Thinker
#158
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

Basically, Praxius, I agree........except for minor points such as Gitmo as "the world's worst prison" (ha!).

No, I said "One of the world's worst known prisons"

I'm sure there are a few around the world that are a hell of a lot worse..... but it doesn't justify what's going on in Gitmo.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#159
My big problem has not been conditions at Gitmo, although I know water-boarding is torture.......and sleep deprivation and other milder forms of interogation techniques are definitely border-line, and torture is never acceptable.

My problem has been the unconstitutional nature of his trial, the obvious attempt to railroad him in a kangaroo court, the silliness of trying a giuy for throwing a grenade at you after you drop a 1,000 Kg bomb on him...........

You express it well in the last couple of lines, if we are fighting to defend all that is good about the principles of western civilization, we have to apply those principles.

I am disgusted by the fact that indeed there are a large number of Canadians that will treat Khadr as a hero.......I'm sure that if he landed in Toronto with sufficient forewarning, a ticker-tape parade would not be out of the realm of possibility.
 
Zzarchov
#160
I also don't think America has anything to try him for. HE was an enemy soldier. He threw a grenade at you. Thats how war works, there are rules on prisoners.

Now if he sets foot in Canada, we might have some treason charges for him.
 
Praxius
Free Thinker
#161
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

My big problem has not been conditions at Gitmo, although I know water-boarding is torture.......and sleep deprivation and other milder forms of interogation techniques are definitely border-line, and torture is never acceptable.

My problem has been the unconstitutional nature of his trial, the obvious attempt to railroad him in a kangaroo court, the silliness of trying a giuy for throwing a grenade at you after you drop a 1,000 Kg bomb on him...........

You express it well in the last couple of lines, if we are fighting to defend all that is good about the principles of western civilization, we have to apply those principles.

I am disgusted by the fact that indeed there are a large number of Canadians that will treat Khadr as a hero.......I'm sure that if he landed in Toronto with sufficient forewarning, a ticker-tape parade would not be out of the realm of possibility.

I agree with all of that, and I'm sure there'd be a few people who would just see Omar as a hero against the evil American Empire..... Back when all of this occured, I was pissed enough to perhaps feel the same way, but he hasn't done anything to justify being called a hero, nor has he enough information/evidence supporting his absolute innocence...... nor do I feel there is enough information/evidence to prove his guilt...... I don't believe he should be left in US hands, for the simple fact that he is a Canadian Citizen and should have all the same protections as any other Canadian citizen..... but I don't believe he should be set free to roam around Canada like nothing ever happened.

So then what? What do we do with him and what he has gone through?

Do we have a trial here in Canada?

If so, then would the US give us all their evidence and information?

Probably not due to "national security reasons" ~ Therefore a trial here in Canada probably would never function properly and he'd be found not guilty regardless if he was really guilty or not.

So if he can't be found guilty because half of the information and evidence against him won't be released..... then he won't get labeled a child soldier, therefore may not get the real help he needs if he truly is guilty, and then be set free to do whatever within out nation.

So I guess it boils down to allowing his trial in Gitmo to continue to find him guilty and send him away with all the other terrorists forever, which can no longer happen since Obama is shutting it all down......... which then leads to him being sent back to Canada for a trial, which won't have all the information given from the US I am betting, therefore, he is found not guilty.

Or..... he is sent to the US to face a trial under US laws..... which is a lot better then remaining in Gitmo, but would it be any better then a trial in Canada? Would that evidence and information against him be given out in this style of trial or would it still compromise national security once again, thus disqualifying any chances of him being found guilty?

Added:

Like I said before, I believe the US royally screwed up any chances they had as finding the truth in this situation, and perhaps none of us will ever know what truly happened......
 
Colpy
Conservative
#162
The way I see it now, and this has been a 180 degree flip-flop for me, is bring him home quietly, provide him with counselling, watch him, but he has served his time.

The only restriction I would, if possible, give him is if he ever leaves Canada again he will not be allowed to re-enter.

And I'm sure that is legally impossible.

So there it is.

If, of course, he makes contact with other terror suspects, then he exposes himself to futher prosecution.
 
Praxius
Free Thinker
#163
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

The way I see it now, and this has been a 180 degree flip-flop for me, is bring him home quietly, provide him with counselling, watch him, but he has served his time.

The only restriction I would, if possible, give him is if he ever leaves Canada again he will not be allowed to re-enter.

And I'm sure that is legally impossible.

So there it is.

If, of course, he makes contact with other terror suspects, then he exposes himself to futher prosecution.

Makes sense, but cutting all ties from "Terror Suspects" might be difficult, considering his father's background and how many ties his family has built up over the years..... not that it's impossible, but I think it would be difficult, even if he tried his best.... who's to say some of these extremists might try and suck him in due to the crap he's just been put through?

Though with the proper help and support, this might be able to be prevented..... but if it was me who was thrown into what he's been put through, I'd probably have some hate for the people who put me through all that, and some hate for the government that never lifted a hand for one of their own citizens.

It'd be hard to build faith back up after all that.

I hope he does get the help he needs...... maybe Arar with his own campaign could help him out sometime...... I dunno. *shrugs*

It's certainly not a simple situation to solve.
 
dancing-loon
#164
Thank you, Praxius, for your support.

Here is an article from the Vancouver sun

The least we can do in the case of Omar Khadr

Irwin Cotler, Special to the Sun
Published: Tuesday, January 27, 2009

On just the second full day on the job, President Barack Obama issued an executive order to ban torture and close Guantanamo Bay within a year.

This decision -- rightly demonstrating a commitment to the rule of law as an overriding priority for the incoming administration -- has important implications for Canada-U.S. relations in addition to its high substantive and symbolic value.

Indeed, it should alter the entire Canadian calculus with respect to the case of Omar Khadr -- the Canadian citizen and lone western national remaining imprisoned in Guantanamo Bay.

View Larger Image

The announcement that the Guantanamo Bay detention centre will close within a year has important implications for Canada-U.S. relations.


Unfortunately, our government still does not seem to appreciate this fact. Defence Minister Peter MacKay showed some promise of recognizing the fundamentally altered diplomatic landscape when he proclaimed on Wednesday that "Canada and Mr. Khadr's counsel and everyone involved in these cases will be reassessing their positions."

But then the PMO quickly retreated and stated there has been no change in its position.

Said Kory Teneycke, Prime Minister Stephen Harper's spokesman, "we will wait for the outcome of a judicial process before looking at what the other options are."

To be sure, as Obama -- a former law professor -- ends the Guantanamo process, at least we can gain confidence that the serious crimes of which Khadr is accused will be decided through a just process.

Yet what is most deeply troubling here is that Ottawa has yet to learn from the illegality of Khadr's ordeal.

As I have written previously, when our government stands back while one Canadian's rights are abused abroad, we all become at risk.

For our prime minister to leave the decision on Khadr's repatriation entirely at the whim of the U.S. government is a sorrowing abdication of responsibility -- a responsibility that is owed to everyone with a Canadian passport.

In the past, the Conservative government was wrong to cling to the incomprehensible incantation that pressing for Khadr's repatriation was "premature" --
even after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that detainees like Khadr were denied their due process rights,
even after the Canadian Supreme Court held that the Guantanamo process violated international law,
even after evidence of coercive interrogation and brutality in detention, and
even after it became clear that the incoming American administration would shut down the facility.

Now, the Conservative government still continues to "wait" while Obama prefers to act.

Fortunately for Harper, Thursday's executive order gives the government an opportunity to escape that question. Our government should have taken the lead, but now it can reach the same result by simply following Obama's plan.

The military commissions of Guantanamo Bay appear to be effectively over, such that a resolution will need to be found for remaining detainees.

By bringing Khadr home, Canada would be co-operating with the new American administration -- before Obama's prospective visit -- by offering a practical solution to its legal quagmire.

The choice now is starker than ever.

The Conservative government can reach out to the Obama administration, take the Khadr case off American hands, and finally protect the rights of a Canadian citizen;
or it could remain despairingly passive, blindly putting its faith in a system that is internationally decried and standing on its last limbs.

Canada has already failed in its responsibility to lead on this issue. The least it can do now is follow Obama, admit that justice cannot be done in Guantanamo, and bring Khadr home.


Irwin Cotler is the member of Parliament for Mount Royal. He is a former minister of justice and attorney-general of Canada and is a professor of law (on leave) at McGill University.

The least we can do in the case of Omar Khadr
----------------------------------------------------------------

Our present government with its inaction and obstructionism in this case is a shameful institution! It is about time Canadians wake up and smell the roses!!

(P.S. All the highlighting was done by me.)
 
EagleSmack
#165
I personally believe that Omar should be delivered PERSONALLY to the Canadian Border by Obama and into the loving arms of Dancing Loon. That way she can give her little angel a BIG KISS on the LIPS.
 
dancing-loon
#166
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

I personally believe that Omar should be delivered PERSONALLY to the Canadian Border by Obama and into the loving arms of Dancing Loon. That way she can give her little angel a BIG KISS on the LIPS.

Not a bad idea, Eagle!
Some old-fashioned young passion could do wonders to my old heart!!!
 
dancing-loon
#167
How sad... Omar has been forgotten. Well, not anymore! I will bring him to the top of the line again... that is the least I can do.
Quote:

Prime Minister Stephen Harper has an obligation to immediately demand the repatriation of Omar Khadr from Guantanamo Bay because his failure to do so offends fundamental justice, a Federal Court judge ruled Thursday. In a strong judgment, Judge Walter O'Reilly said Harper's refusal to get involved violated Canada's Charter of Rights.
"The ongoing refusal of Canada to request Mr. Khadr's repatriation to Canada offends a principle of fundamental justice and violates Mr. Khadr's rights," O'Reilly said in his 43-page decision.
"To mitigate the effect of that violation, Canada must present a request to the United States for Mr. Khadr's repatriation as soon as practicable."
The Toronto-born Khadr has languished in Guantanamo Bay for more than six years, accused of killing an American soldier in July 2002 when he was 15 years old.
Harper has washed his hands of the issue, saying Khadr faces serious accusations and the legal process in the U.S. has to play itself out.
But O'Reilly accepted arguments from Khadr's lawyers that Harper should have sought his repatriation on the grounds that Canada was complicit in the detainee's torture.

Now, I hope that will do it!

Harper is one ugly and heartless guy! He has had this chance to do good, to help one young victim of torture, but no, he deliberately delays and delays any positive action to free Omar... what a creep he is! An ugly blemish on our Nation! NEVER will he get my vote!

Harper mulls appeal as court rules against refusal to call for Khadr repatriation - Yahoo! Canada News (external - login to view)
 
gerryh
#168
Quote: Originally Posted by dancing-loonView Post

Harper is one ugly and heartless guy! He has had this chance to do good, to help one young victim of torture, but no, he deliberately delays and delays any positive action to free Omar... what a creep he is! An ugly blemish on our Nation! NEVER will he get my vote!


I bet he's gonna lose sleep over that.
 
DurkaDurka
No Party Affiliation
#169
Quote: Originally Posted by dancing-loonView Post

How sad... Omar has been forgotten. Well, not anymore! I will bring him to the top of the line again... that is the least I can do.Now, I hope that will do it!

Harper is one ugly and heartless guy! He has had this chance to do good, to help one young victim of torture, but no, he deliberately delays and delays any positive action to free Omar... what a creep he is! An ugly blemish on our Nation! NEVER will he get my vote!

Harper mulls appeal as court rules against refusal to call for Khadr repatriation - Yahoo! Canada News (external - login to view)

Would you still feel like this if khadr was a Jew? We know how you love Jews...
 
gerryh
#170
Quote: Originally Posted by DurkaDurkaView Post

Would you still feel like this if khadr was a Jew? We know how you love Jews...


Now...that would be completely different.... she'd be calling for the death penalty for him then.
 
DurkaDurka
No Party Affiliation
#171
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

Now...that would be completely different.... she'd be calling for the death penalty for him then.

Without a doubt.
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
#172
Quote: Originally Posted by dancing-loonView Post

The least we can do in the case of Omar Khadr



I think that the very least we can do is return the poor wee little lamb back to the nation that he was fighting to defend. I'm certain that they will welcome him with open arms... Maybe a parade and keys to the city.

.... Or we could give him the option to stay in Gitmo....
 
Colpy
Conservative
#173
Quote:

Prime Minister Stephen Harper has an obligation to immediately demand the repatriation of Omar Khadr from Guantanamo Bay because his failure to do so offends fundamental justice, a Federal Court judge ruled Thursday. In a strong judgment, Judge Walter O'Reilly said Harper's refusal to get involved violated Canada's Charter of Rights.
"The ongoing refusal of Canada to request Mr. Khadr's repatriation to Canada offends a principle of fundamental justice and violates Mr. Khadr's rights," O'Reilly said in his 43-page decision.
"To mitigate the effect of that violation, Canada must present a request to the United States for Mr. Khadr's repatriation as soon as practicable."
The Toronto-born Khadr has languished in Guantanamo Bay for more than six years, accused of killing an American soldier in July 2002 when he was 15 years old.
Harper has washed his hands of the issue, saying Khadr faces serious accusations and the legal process in the U.S. has to play itself out.
But O'Reilly accepted arguments from Khadr's lawyers that Harper should have sought his repatriation on the grounds that Canada was complicit in the detainee's torture.

I agree at this point that Khadr (shudder) needs to be repatriated to Canada.....only because the USA failed to shoot him on the spot or turn him over to the aforementioned "loving arms" of Afghan justice. Either would have been preferable, but the Yanks saved him, and then tried to force him through a Kangaroo Court.......so we need to get him out.

BUT this decision has to be appealed: the Federal Court has far exceeded its jurisdiction by becoming involved in the field of foreign policy.

That can not be allowed to stand.

IMHO
 

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