Council Member
Posts: 2,289 
May 3rd, 2008, 02:51 PM
Children Hurt and Hospital Is Hit in Baghdad Clashes
BAGHDAD — The ugly daily fight for ground in the poor Shiite neighborhood of Sadr City unfolded Saturday at a small mosque next door to a hospital, damaging the hospital and many of its ambulances, and near a group of children who were injured by the violence as they gathered tin cans to sell for salvage.
The first hit, close to the Sadr General Hospital, was American. After a night of clashes in the neighborhood, the Americans fired at least three “precision-guided munitions” at a small building next door to the hospital that neighbors said was used as a place of prayer for hospital employees, pilgrims and neighborhood residents.
Twenty-eight people were wounded in the attack near the hospital, said Abdul Hussain Qassim, a hospital official.
The circumstances of the other strike are in dispute. The Americans said claims that they had attacked the children were “preposterous.” And the area where the hit occurred is near heavily contested ground. Shiite militias trying to hit nearby Iraqi Army and American forces have sometimes misfired, hitting areas near there in recent fighting.
But both instances underline sad truths about urban warfare. The daily horror for families and children living near the front line area of Sadr City is that who is a friend and who a foe is no longer a meaningful question. The militias use rocket propelled grenades, sniper rifles and mounted machine guns as well as AK-47 rifles while the Americans are shooting Hellfire missiles, tank rounds, and satellite-guided missiles as well as rounds from machine guns. Iraqi Army soldiers are also on the scene.
Iraqi ambulances have been used to ferry weapons, and homes are used as safe houses for militia fighters. Men in the vests of municipal road workers sometimes toil at burying improvised explosive devices while Iraqi and American forces have holed up in schools and Education Ministry buildings. Sometimes it feels as if nothing is what it seems.
In the strike near the hospital, the sign at the iron gate at the entrance to the building demolished by the American strike reads “Imam Hussein’s Resthouse.”
The Americans described the building in a statement as “a “criminal element command and control center.”
“Intelligence reports indicate the command and control center was used by criminal elements to plan and coordinate attacks against Iraqi security and coalition forces and innocent Iraqi citizens,” the statement said.
Col. Gerald O’Hara, a spokesman for the multinational forces, underscored that the Americans “take great care to prevent any collateral damage and will continue to do so.”
“We don’t target civilians and regret any casualties,” he added.
full story here: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/04/wo...hp&oref=slogin
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess there is enough blame to go around for everyone! How horrible it must be for the poor Iraqis to live in that danger zone day and night, with no other place to go to.
And here a reminder...
http://baghdadbureau.blogs.nytimes.com/
----------------------------------------------------------
Children Hurt and Hospital Is Hit in Baghdad Clashes
BAGHDAD — The ugly daily fight for ground in the poor Shiite neighborhood of Sadr City unfolded Saturday at a small mosque next door to a hospital, damaging the hospital and many of its ambulances, and near a group of children who were injured by the violence as they gathered tin cans to sell for salvage.
The first hit, close to the Sadr General Hospital, was American. After a night of clashes in the neighborhood, the Americans fired at least three “precision-guided munitions” at a small building next door to the hospital that neighbors said was used as a place of prayer for hospital employees, pilgrims and neighborhood residents.
Twenty-eight people were wounded in the attack near the hospital, said Abdul Hussain Qassim, a hospital official.
The circumstances of the other strike are in dispute. The Americans said claims that they had attacked the children were “preposterous.” And the area where the hit occurred is near heavily contested ground. Shiite militias trying to hit nearby Iraqi Army and American forces have sometimes misfired, hitting areas near there in recent fighting.
But both instances underline sad truths about urban warfare. The daily horror for families and children living near the front line area of Sadr City is that who is a friend and who a foe is no longer a meaningful question. The militias use rocket propelled grenades, sniper rifles and mounted machine guns as well as AK-47 rifles while the Americans are shooting Hellfire missiles, tank rounds, and satellite-guided missiles as well as rounds from machine guns. Iraqi Army soldiers are also on the scene.
Iraqi ambulances have been used to ferry weapons, and homes are used as safe houses for militia fighters. Men in the vests of municipal road workers sometimes toil at burying improvised explosive devices while Iraqi and American forces have holed up in schools and Education Ministry buildings. Sometimes it feels as if nothing is what it seems.
In the strike near the hospital, the sign at the iron gate at the entrance to the building demolished by the American strike reads “Imam Hussein’s Resthouse.”
The Americans described the building in a statement as “a “criminal element command and control center.”
“Intelligence reports indicate the command and control center was used by criminal elements to plan and coordinate attacks against Iraqi security and coalition forces and innocent Iraqi citizens,” the statement said.
Col. Gerald O’Hara, a spokesman for the multinational forces, underscored that the Americans “take great care to prevent any collateral damage and will continue to do so.”
“We don’t target civilians and regret any casualties,” he added.
full story here: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/04/wo...hp&oref=slogin
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess there is enough blame to go around for everyone! How horrible it must be for the poor Iraqis to live in that danger zone day and night, with no other place to go to.
And here a reminder...
http://baghdadbureau.blogs.nytimes.com/
----------------------------------------------------------
Council Member
Posts: 2,289
May 3rd, 2008, 04:02 PM
Quoting Risus
They are all on pills!!
There is no one else to blame than the low life war criminal hypocrite Bushinski who started all the mess in the first place. I don't understand how the yanks can sleep at night...
Council Member
Posts: 2,289
May 3rd, 2008, 10:51 PM
I tried to find the article I once read about the meds the soldiers are freely given to overcome tiredness and fatique. Instead I found an article on the mental health toll this war is taking on US soldiers.
Most shocking is a report that states over 6,250 American veterans took their own lives in 2005 alone — that works out to a little more than 17 suicides every day.
Just fathom that!! And many, many more live with a devastating post traumatic stress disorder. They can't relax, always still on alert.
http://thefilter.ca/articles/usa-and...orrors-of-war/
-----------------------------------------------------------
We hear little about the PTSD the Iraqis suffer! They, too are in constant fear for their lives and their children's lives. They hear and see the ravages of war right around them. And they can't do a thing about it. Where could they run to? Some refugee camp in a foreign country? They are already filled to over their capacity.
Some 60,000 per month are fleeing, according to a UN report.
4.2m Iraqis have been displaced since the 2003 invasion. Of those, two million have gone abroad.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6968538.stm
After five years still no end in sight!!!
I tried to find the article I once read about the meds the soldiers are freely given to overcome tiredness and fatique. Instead I found an article on the mental health toll this war is taking on US soldiers.
Most shocking is a report that states over 6,250 American veterans took their own lives in 2005 alone — that works out to a little more than 17 suicides every day.
Just fathom that!! And many, many more live with a devastating post traumatic stress disorder. They can't relax, always still on alert.
http://thefilter.ca/articles/usa-and...orrors-of-war/
-----------------------------------------------------------
We hear little about the PTSD the Iraqis suffer! They, too are in constant fear for their lives and their children's lives. They hear and see the ravages of war right around them. And they can't do a thing about it. Where could they run to? Some refugee camp in a foreign country? They are already filled to over their capacity.
Some 60,000 per month are fleeing, according to a UN report.
4.2m Iraqis have been displaced since the 2003 invasion. Of those, two million have gone abroad.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6968538.stm
After five years still no end in sight!!!
Electoral Member
Posts: 902
Location: Red Deer AB
Location: Red Deer AB
May 3rd, 2008, 11:18 PM
That article you were looking for was (at least the one I read was more specific to pilots) part of a series that was about Canadians being killed in an Afghan friendly-fire incident, one of the very first for Canadians as I recall.
That article you were looking for was (at least the one I read was more specific to pilots) part of a series that was about Canadians being killed in an Afghan friendly-fire incident, one of the very first for Canadians as I recall.
Council Member
Posts: 2,289
May 18th, 2008, 08:47 PM
Hi, MHz;
I found the article and have refreshed my memory.
What I find strange is, they don't know whether they dropped one or two 500 lb bombs!
It also mentions two other incidents of friendly fire. In one even Mr. Karzai was slightly wounded.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/apr/18/afghanistan
Hi, MHz;
I found the article and have refreshed my memory.
What I find strange is, they don't know whether they dropped one or two 500 lb bombs!
It also mentions two other incidents of friendly fire. In one even Mr. Karzai was slightly wounded.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/apr/18/afghanistan
Quote:
One of the most painful memories of the Gulf War is the fact that 35 of the 148 U.S. combat deaths were caused by friendly fire.
Council Member
Posts: 2,289
May 18th, 2008, 10:09 PM
Quoting MHz
likely not, because pills were shoved at them freely. But read this disturbing report...
They probably don't remember how many 'uppers' they had taken either.
Quote:
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/40481/
...desperate for fresh recruits, the Army started increasing, by nearly half, the rate at which it grants what it terms "moral waivers" to potential recruits. According to the Pentagon, waivers in 2001 totaled 7,640, increasing to 11,018 in 2005. "Moral waivers" permit recruits with criminal records, emotional problems, and weak educational backgrounds to be taught how to use submachine guns and rocket launchers. Afterward, if they survive, they'll be called heroes -- and released back into society. (One ex-soldier praising the military for having "properly trained and hardened me" was Timothy McVeigh).
The U.S. military is now a mercenary force. In addition to hired militias and "independent contractors," we do have a draft: a poverty draft. That's why the Army is so disproportionately comprised of people of color, seeking education, health care, housing. But the military inflicts other perks: teenage males, hormones surging, are taught to confuse their bodies with weapons, and relish that.
The U.S. military is now a mercenary force. In addition to hired militias and "independent contractors," we do have a draft: a poverty draft. That's why the Army is so disproportionately comprised of people of color, seeking education, health care, housing. But the military inflicts other perks: teenage males, hormones surging, are taught to confuse their bodies with weapons, and relish that.
Council Member
Posts: 2,289
May 18th, 2008, 10:26 PM
One notorious training song (with lewd gestures) goes: "This is my rifle, this is my gun; one is for killing, one is for fun."
The U.S. Air Force admits showing films of violent pornography to pilots before they fly bombing raids.
Military manuals are replete with such blatant phrases as "erector launchers," "thrust ratios," "rigid deep earth-penetration," "potent nuclear hardness."
"Soft targets"? Civilians. Her name means "fragrance of flowers."
Feminist scholars have been exposing these phallocentric military connections for decades. When I wrote The Demon Lover: The Roots of Terrorism (updated edition 2001, Washington Square Press), I presented far more evidence than space here permits on how the terrorist mystique and the hero legend both spring from the same root: the patriarchal pursuit of manhood. How can rape not be central to the propaganda that violence is erotic -- a pervasive message affecting everything from U.S. foreign policy (afflicted with premature ejaculation) to "camouflage chic," and glamorized gangtsa styles?
This definition of manhood is toxic to men and lethal to women.
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/40481/?page=2
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And then there was the time when
'They raped every German female from eight to 80'
"Red Army soldiers don't believe in 'individual liaisons' with German women," wrote the playwright Zakhar Agranenko in his diary when serving as an officer of marine infantry in East Prussia. "Nine, ten, twelve men at a time - they rape them on a collective basis."
http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/art...707928,00.html
One notorious training song (with lewd gestures) goes: "This is my rifle, this is my gun; one is for killing, one is for fun."
The U.S. Air Force admits showing films of violent pornography to pilots before they fly bombing raids.
Military manuals are replete with such blatant phrases as "erector launchers," "thrust ratios," "rigid deep earth-penetration," "potent nuclear hardness."
"Soft targets"? Civilians. Her name means "fragrance of flowers."
Feminist scholars have been exposing these phallocentric military connections for decades. When I wrote The Demon Lover: The Roots of Terrorism (updated edition 2001, Washington Square Press), I presented far more evidence than space here permits on how the terrorist mystique and the hero legend both spring from the same root: the patriarchal pursuit of manhood. How can rape not be central to the propaganda that violence is erotic -- a pervasive message affecting everything from U.S. foreign policy (afflicted with premature ejaculation) to "camouflage chic," and glamorized gangtsa styles?
This definition of manhood is toxic to men and lethal to women.
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/40481/?page=2
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And then there was the time when
'They raped every German female from eight to 80'
"Red Army soldiers don't believe in 'individual liaisons' with German women," wrote the playwright Zakhar Agranenko in his diary when serving as an officer of marine infantry in East Prussia. "Nine, ten, twelve men at a time - they rape them on a collective basis."
http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/art...707928,00.html
Electoral Member
Posts: 902
Location: Red Deer AB
Location: Red Deer AB
May 18th, 2008, 10:34 PM
So that is why McVeigh parked that Ryder truck in a military compound?
I used to spend some time in the States just after 'Nam ended, a lot of the vets I spent time with had some real issues, I assume that is pretty much standard for anybody who has actually been in a war.
So that is why McVeigh parked that Ryder truck in a military compound?
I used to spend some time in the States just after 'Nam ended, a lot of the vets I spent time with had some real issues, I assume that is pretty much standard for anybody who has actually been in a war.
Council Member
Posts: 2,289
May 18th, 2008, 11:38 PM
Timothy served in the Gulf War.
McVeigh also used methamphetamines.
Common nicknames for methamphetamine include "meth", "ice", "crystal", "tina", "p", and "glass". Methamphetamine is sometimes referred to as "speed", but this term is usually used for other amphetamines.
Timothy served in the Gulf War.
McVeigh also used methamphetamines.
Common nicknames for methamphetamine include "meth", "ice", "crystal", "tina", "p", and "glass". Methamphetamine is sometimes referred to as "speed", but this term is usually used for other amphetamines.
May 19th, 2008, 12:47 AM
During World War II amphetamine was extensively used to combat fatigue and increase alertness in soldiers. It was fist synthesized in Berlin in 1887 by Lazăr Edeleanu and has been used by many armies, not just the US.
Right or wrong (wrong I think) the US invaded Iraq and took out badguy Saddam Hussein. The US can't leave now or there will be a vacuum of power. If you thought Saddam was bad then you probably won't like the people who will take his place.
I hope Iran behaves and the US won't spread the war into that country too. Iraq is going to be a problem that our grandkids have to look forward to, only by then it will be far worse.
Quoting dancing-loon
Timothy served in the Gulf War.
McVeigh also used methamphetamines.
Common nicknames for methamphetamine include "meth", "ice", "crystal", "tina", "p", and "glass". Methamphetamine is sometimes referred to as "speed", but this term is usually used for other amphetamines.
McVeigh also used methamphetamines.
Common nicknames for methamphetamine include "meth", "ice", "crystal", "tina", "p", and "glass". Methamphetamine is sometimes referred to as "speed", but this term is usually used for other amphetamines.
During World War II amphetamine was extensively used to combat fatigue and increase alertness in soldiers. It was fist synthesized in Berlin in 1887 by Lazăr Edeleanu and has been used by many armies, not just the US.
Right or wrong (wrong I think) the US invaded Iraq and took out badguy Saddam Hussein. The US can't leave now or there will be a vacuum of power. If you thought Saddam was bad then you probably won't like the people who will take his place.
I hope Iran behaves and the US won't spread the war into that country too. Iraq is going to be a problem that our grandkids have to look forward to, only by then it will be far worse.
Council Member
Posts: 2,289
May 19th, 2008, 11:58 AM
Quoting alypipes
Well, they will certainly make sure the government they establish will follow their guidelines. All they need is retain a military power base, like they have in most other countries around the world. Besides, Israel, as their close buddy, would keep an eye on the cooker! BUT...I believe they, USrael, has not yet finished or reached their determined goal, and that is full control over the Middle East.
Right or wrong (wrong I think) the US invaded Iraq and took out badguy Saddam Hussein. The US can't leave now or there will be a vacuum of power.
Quote:
I wonder whom you are thinking of??
If you thought Saddam was bad then you probably won't like the people who will take his place.
Quote:
Behaves?? Hm.. what exactly do you envision under that expectation? So far Iran is hanging in, but it all depends what the US is considering good behavior. Anything they wish will serve them as a reason to reprimand or attack Iran. It seems to me the Amis are just waiting for some sort of slip-up, and they'll pounce!
I hope Iran behaves and the US won't spread the war into that country too.
Quote:
Would you mind elaborating a bit, so I have an idea what direction you are thinking? Perhaps you envision other forces taking over?
Iraq is going to be a problem that our grandkids have to look forward to, only by then it will be far worse.
