Council Member
Posts: 2,297 
May 19th, 2008, 01:42 PM
The Canadian Forces aren't doing too badly on drugs either!!
"More than one in 20 Canadian soldiers and sailors in non-combat roles tested positive for illicit drug use in random tests conducted on more than 3,000 military personnel from coast to coast."
" Col. Noonan said the use of illicit drugs in the general Canadian population is about 12 or 14 per cent."
Considering that, the military is actually ahead!!
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home
The Canadian Forces aren't doing too badly on drugs either!!
"More than one in 20 Canadian soldiers and sailors in non-combat roles tested positive for illicit drug use in random tests conducted on more than 3,000 military personnel from coast to coast."
" Col. Noonan said the use of illicit drugs in the general Canadian population is about 12 or 14 per cent."
Considering that, the military is actually ahead!!
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home
May 21st, 2008, 12:15 AM
Mehdi Army militia led by Muqtada al-Sadr the son of a well respected and revered Shia cleric killed by the Baathist regime. Sayyid Riyadh Nouri heads the political wing.
Badr Brigade,linked to and well funded by Iran, is thought to be the "wet wing" of the enormous group the Shiite SCIRI (Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq) and led by Grand Ayotollah al-Sistani.
Tawhad and Khalid bin Al Walid Brigade (Changed name toTanzim Qa'idat al-Jihad fi Bilad al-Rafidayn -- QJBR) a.k.a. al-Zarqawi Network. Virulent anti-Shia extremists led by a Palestinian-Jordanian petty criminal who has risen to power based upon his fanatical hatred and execution of Shia Muslims. Zarqawi is linked to al-Qaeda and several major bombings and assasinations in Iraq. Like the al-Sadr followers, the group also has taken and beheaded hostages when their demands have not been met. Links between the Jordanian Abu al-Zarqawi and al-Qaeda, group claimed several bombings in Iraq and on July 18, 2004, offered the equivalent of a $280,000 reward for the killing of Prime Minister Alwai, the leader of the Interim Iraqi Government. The attacks by QJBR are too numerous to report, with almost daily activity leading to the elections of the preliminary Iraqi government and until the U.S. Troop Surge in 2007 began to have its effects. The death of al-Zarqawi diminished the organization's effectiveness and his two immediate replacements have also been killed.
Ansar al-Islam, some more nice fellas, a radical Islamist group of Iraqi Kurds and Arabs who have vowed to establish an independent Islamic state in Iraq. It was formed in December 2001 and is closely allied with al-Qaida. Some of its members trained in al-Qaida camps in Afghanistan, and the group provided safehaven to al-Qaida fighters before Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF). Since OIF, it has been one of the leading groups engaged in anti- Coalition attacks.
Al-Qaeda
Mujahedin-e-Khalq The MEK philosophy mixes Marxism and Islam. Formed in the 1960s, the organization was expelled from Iran after the Islamic Revolution in 1979, and its primary support now comes from the Iraqi regime of Saddam Hussein. Its history is studded with anti-Western attacks as well as terrorist attacks on the interests of the clerical regime in Iran and abroad. The MEK now advocates a secular Iranian regime.Most of the fighters are organized in the MEK’s National Liberation Army (NLA).
Kurdish Worker's Party (PKK) Founded in 1974 as a Marxist-Leninist insurgent group primarily composed of Turkish Kurds. The group’s goal has been to establish an independent Kurdish state in southeastern Turkey, where the population is predominantly Kurdish. In the early 1990s, the PKK moved beyond rural-based insurgent activities to include urban terrorism.
Abu Nidal Organization
Al-Istikhbarat al-Askariyya (Military Intelligence)
Hamas (Islamic Resistance Movement) While Hamas is typically an attacker of Israelis and those Muslims working with Israelis, numerous reports of Hamas members flocking to Iraq to fight the infidels have been confirmed, especially those identified with Izz al-Din al-Qassam Forces.
Let's not forget Fedayeen Saddam "Saddam's Men of Sacrifice" and Ashbal Saddam a paramilitary unit comprised wholly of children (aged 10-15). The Ashbal Saddam principly serves as a feeder program to the Fedayeen Saddam (Saddam's Men of Sacrifice).
These guys aren't leaving Iraq anytime soon.
Quoting dancing-loon
That sounds like a great and easy idea but I don't think the US will get off that easy. They are in it for the long haul. The people who I think you wont like and our grandchildren will likely be dealing with :
Well, they will certainly make sure the government they establish will follow their guidelines. All they need is retain a military power base, like they have in most other countries around the world. Besides, Israel, as their close buddy, would keep an eye on the cooker! BUT...I believe they, USrael, has not yet finished or reached their determined goal, and that is full control over the Middle East.
Mehdi Army militia led by Muqtada al-Sadr the son of a well respected and revered Shia cleric killed by the Baathist regime. Sayyid Riyadh Nouri heads the political wing.
Badr Brigade,linked to and well funded by Iran, is thought to be the "wet wing" of the enormous group the Shiite SCIRI (Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq) and led by Grand Ayotollah al-Sistani.
Tawhad and Khalid bin Al Walid Brigade (Changed name toTanzim Qa'idat al-Jihad fi Bilad al-Rafidayn -- QJBR) a.k.a. al-Zarqawi Network. Virulent anti-Shia extremists led by a Palestinian-Jordanian petty criminal who has risen to power based upon his fanatical hatred and execution of Shia Muslims. Zarqawi is linked to al-Qaeda and several major bombings and assasinations in Iraq. Like the al-Sadr followers, the group also has taken and beheaded hostages when their demands have not been met. Links between the Jordanian Abu al-Zarqawi and al-Qaeda, group claimed several bombings in Iraq and on July 18, 2004, offered the equivalent of a $280,000 reward for the killing of Prime Minister Alwai, the leader of the Interim Iraqi Government. The attacks by QJBR are too numerous to report, with almost daily activity leading to the elections of the preliminary Iraqi government and until the U.S. Troop Surge in 2007 began to have its effects. The death of al-Zarqawi diminished the organization's effectiveness and his two immediate replacements have also been killed.
Ansar al-Islam, some more nice fellas, a radical Islamist group of Iraqi Kurds and Arabs who have vowed to establish an independent Islamic state in Iraq. It was formed in December 2001 and is closely allied with al-Qaida. Some of its members trained in al-Qaida camps in Afghanistan, and the group provided safehaven to al-Qaida fighters before Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF). Since OIF, it has been one of the leading groups engaged in anti- Coalition attacks.
Al-Qaeda
Mujahedin-e-Khalq The MEK philosophy mixes Marxism and Islam. Formed in the 1960s, the organization was expelled from Iran after the Islamic Revolution in 1979, and its primary support now comes from the Iraqi regime of Saddam Hussein. Its history is studded with anti-Western attacks as well as terrorist attacks on the interests of the clerical regime in Iran and abroad. The MEK now advocates a secular Iranian regime.Most of the fighters are organized in the MEK’s National Liberation Army (NLA).
Kurdish Worker's Party (PKK) Founded in 1974 as a Marxist-Leninist insurgent group primarily composed of Turkish Kurds. The group’s goal has been to establish an independent Kurdish state in southeastern Turkey, where the population is predominantly Kurdish. In the early 1990s, the PKK moved beyond rural-based insurgent activities to include urban terrorism.
Abu Nidal Organization
Al-Istikhbarat al-Askariyya (Military Intelligence)
Hamas (Islamic Resistance Movement) While Hamas is typically an attacker of Israelis and those Muslims working with Israelis, numerous reports of Hamas members flocking to Iraq to fight the infidels have been confirmed, especially those identified with Izz al-Din al-Qassam Forces.
Let's not forget Fedayeen Saddam "Saddam's Men of Sacrifice" and Ashbal Saddam a paramilitary unit comprised wholly of children (aged 10-15). The Ashbal Saddam principly serves as a feeder program to the Fedayeen Saddam (Saddam's Men of Sacrifice).
These guys aren't leaving Iraq anytime soon.
Council Member
Posts: 2,297
May 21st, 2008, 02:09 PM
Hi, Alex;
I like your new avatar!! I can't determine what front the Panzer is serving... is it a German one? That would be so chic!
Well, you certainly have the ME situation in focus, and are able to see which way things might be moving. I, in contrast, have no real understanding of what is what down there. My concern is that the US and Israel (USrael for short) are the ones who ignited that powder keg, IF it even was a keg at the time. I blame, whether that is deserved or not, USrael for the crisis we are in at the present.
It is also my conviction that more force and determination by the West not to give in, not to let go, will only create more violence. If we, the West, expect the Arabs to be the wiser ones and give in, we are fooling ourselves.
Because the US is dedicated to the Israeli cause, and will do everything in its power to help Israel reach its goal, they simply cannot withdraw. Too much is at stake not just for Israel's survival, but also for America's strategic position and plans of further expansion.
Therefore, it will be war until one side is eliminated. The US must be realizing they can't go on like this much longer. Something will have to give.
I don't know for how much longer the other big forces will watch this slow bloodletting, before they will interfere. I'm thinking of Russia or China. Either one could stand behind Iran, just as the US is standing behind Israel.
Hi, Alex;
I like your new avatar!! I can't determine what front the Panzer is serving... is it a German one? That would be so chic!
Well, you certainly have the ME situation in focus, and are able to see which way things might be moving. I, in contrast, have no real understanding of what is what down there. My concern is that the US and Israel (USrael for short) are the ones who ignited that powder keg, IF it even was a keg at the time. I blame, whether that is deserved or not, USrael for the crisis we are in at the present.
It is also my conviction that more force and determination by the West not to give in, not to let go, will only create more violence. If we, the West, expect the Arabs to be the wiser ones and give in, we are fooling ourselves.
Because the US is dedicated to the Israeli cause, and will do everything in its power to help Israel reach its goal, they simply cannot withdraw. Too much is at stake not just for Israel's survival, but also for America's strategic position and plans of further expansion.
Therefore, it will be war until one side is eliminated. The US must be realizing they can't go on like this much longer. Something will have to give.
I don't know for how much longer the other big forces will watch this slow bloodletting, before they will interfere. I'm thinking of Russia or China. Either one could stand behind Iran, just as the US is standing behind Israel.
May 22nd, 2008, 02:16 PM
Hi Dancing Loon,
Thanks for the compliments on the avatar, it's a Sherman Vc aka Firefly of the Fort Garry Horse. My Grandfather was a gunner in a Firefly with the British Columbia Regiment during WW2. The Brits figured out how to fit a 17lb anti-tank gun in a Sherman, it could hole Tiger tanks, a regular Sherman couldn't. The Amis wouldn't use them because the 17lber was a British gun. The Americans waited until they designed a new tank that would fit a high velocity gun of American origin, the decicion probably cost many an Amis his life.
The situation in the ME is complex, the violence does just keep escalating. Russia has already said it would attack the US if the US nuked Iran. The lines are being drawn, I think we are in big trouble already.
Hi Dancing Loon,
Thanks for the compliments on the avatar, it's a Sherman Vc aka Firefly of the Fort Garry Horse. My Grandfather was a gunner in a Firefly with the British Columbia Regiment during WW2. The Brits figured out how to fit a 17lb anti-tank gun in a Sherman, it could hole Tiger tanks, a regular Sherman couldn't. The Amis wouldn't use them because the 17lber was a British gun. The Americans waited until they designed a new tank that would fit a high velocity gun of American origin, the decicion probably cost many an Amis his life.
The situation in the ME is complex, the violence does just keep escalating. Russia has already said it would attack the US if the US nuked Iran. The lines are being drawn, I think we are in big trouble already.
Council Member
Posts: 2,297
May 27th, 2008, 11:32 PM
thanks for explaining these pieces of weaponry to me!
Your expert-knowledge is impressive!
My interest in war is more with the human aspect of it... the soldiers, the politicians, and the victims.
As to the war, I read that Israel will carry out the bombing of Iran. In that case the Amis can wash their hands in innocence.
Read here:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO505A.html
Quoting alypipes
Hi, Alex;
Hi Dancing Loon,
Thanks for the compliments on the avatar, it's a Sherman Vc aka Firefly of the Fort Garry Horse. My Grandfather was a gunner in a Firefly with the British Columbia Regiment during WW2. The Brits figured out how to fit a 17lb anti-tank gun in a Sherman, it could hole Tiger tanks, a regular Sherman couldn't. The Amis wouldn't use them because the 17lber was a British gun. The Americans waited until they designed a new tank that would fit a high velocity gun of American origin, the decision probably cost many an Amis his life.
The situation in the ME is complex, the violence does just keep escalating. Russia has already said it would attack the US if the US nuked Iran. The lines are being drawn, I think we are in big trouble already.
Thanks for the compliments on the avatar, it's a Sherman Vc aka Firefly of the Fort Garry Horse. My Grandfather was a gunner in a Firefly with the British Columbia Regiment during WW2. The Brits figured out how to fit a 17lb anti-tank gun in a Sherman, it could hole Tiger tanks, a regular Sherman couldn't. The Amis wouldn't use them because the 17lber was a British gun. The Americans waited until they designed a new tank that would fit a high velocity gun of American origin, the decision probably cost many an Amis his life.
The situation in the ME is complex, the violence does just keep escalating. Russia has already said it would attack the US if the US nuked Iran. The lines are being drawn, I think we are in big trouble already.
thanks for explaining these pieces of weaponry to me!
Your expert-knowledge is impressive! My interest in war is more with the human aspect of it... the soldiers, the politicians, and the victims.
As to the war, I read that Israel will carry out the bombing of Iran. In that case the Amis can wash their hands in innocence.
Read here:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO505A.html
Electoral Member
Posts: 359
Location: California
Location: California
May 28th, 2008, 10:52 AM
The former Presidential Press Secretary Scott McClelland has a new book out telling his version of what is going on in the Bush administration. If his recorded observations are correct Bush chooses to believe anything that may support his hidden inclinations. The writer states that the US presence in Iraq was one of those inclinations privately stated during the first presidential campaign Bush participated in. Maybe the rest of us were either blind or hearing impaired? I wish all of the disaffected White House staffers would get together and then make of list of their feelings about this whole failed presidency. Ths great nation is in trouble right now and digging out the hole it is in will take a strong, disciplined leader. In my view Obama is definitely not that person.
The former Presidential Press Secretary Scott McClelland has a new book out telling his version of what is going on in the Bush administration. If his recorded observations are correct Bush chooses to believe anything that may support his hidden inclinations. The writer states that the US presence in Iraq was one of those inclinations privately stated during the first presidential campaign Bush participated in. Maybe the rest of us were either blind or hearing impaired? I wish all of the disaffected White House staffers would get together and then make of list of their feelings about this whole failed presidency. Ths great nation is in trouble right now and digging out the hole it is in will take a strong, disciplined leader. In my view Obama is definitely not that person.
Hall of Fame Member
Posts: 10,505
Location: The Evil Empire
Location: The Evil Empire
May 28th, 2008, 11:14 AM
Quoting normbc9
What a well thought out articulated post norm, may I ask who you think would be most "qualified" in your view?
The former Presidential Press Secretary Scott McClelland has a new book out telling his version of what is going on in the Bush administration. If his recorded observations are correct Bush chooses to believe anything that may support his hidden inclinations. The writer states that the US presence in Iraq was one of those inclinations privately stated during the first presidential campaign Bush participated in. Maybe the rest of us were either blind or hearing impaired? I wish all of the disaffected White House staffers would get together and then make of list of their feelings about this whole failed presidency. Ths great nation is in trouble right now and digging out the hole it is in will take a strong, disciplined leader. In my view Obama is definitely not that person.
House Member
Posts: 4,558
Location: Minnesota: Gopher State
Location: Minnesota: Gopher State
May 30th, 2008, 09:59 PM
ugliness of Bush's war:
http://icasualties.org/oif/
but let's talk about global warming, instead ...
ugliness of Bush's war:
http://icasualties.org/oif/
but let's talk about global warming, instead ...
House Member
Posts: 4,558
Location: Minnesota: Gopher State
Location: Minnesota: Gopher State
June 23rd, 2008, 09:13 PM
Sunday: 46 Iraqis Killed, 79 Wounded
http://www.antiwar.com/updates/?articleid=13028
It sure doesn't look good for Bush's war.
But let's talk about global warming, instead.
Sunday: 46 Iraqis Killed, 79 Wounded
http://www.antiwar.com/updates/?articleid=13028
It sure doesn't look good for Bush's war.
But let's talk about global warming, instead.
Council Member
Posts: 2,297
June 23rd, 2008, 10:27 PM
Hi, Gopher;
thanks for bringing this topic back up from the cellar! I had completely forgotten about it.
I wonder, do you know anything about Bush' plan for Iraq? An article in the Boston Globe from January 08 talks about Bush' planned long-term agreement with the Iraqi government to provide permanent military security for the country. He was going to by-pass congress' approval, a first in American history.
----------------------------------------------------------------
What a strange behavior from Mr. Bush!
This was in January. In the meantime things could have changed.
Hi, Gopher;
thanks for bringing this topic back up from the cellar! I had completely forgotten about it.
I wonder, do you know anything about Bush' plan for Iraq? An article in the Boston Globe from January 08 talks about Bush' planned long-term agreement with the Iraqi government to provide permanent military security for the country. He was going to by-pass congress' approval, a first in American history.
Quote:
A little strange, don't you think? Why wouldn't he run it through the congress, I wonder? What is he worried about?
By contrast, Bush and Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Al-Maliki have already agreed that a coming compact will include the United States providing "security assurances and commitments" to Iraq to deter any foreign invasion or internal terrorism by "outlaw groups." But a top White House official has also said that Bush does not intend to submit the deal to Congress.
Quote:
This "pact" is intended to be completed by July 31st, a mere 5 weeks away.
But there is now also growing alarm about the constitutional issues raised by Bush's plan. Legal specialists and lawmakers of both parties are raising questions about whether it would be unconstitutional for Bush to complete such a sweeping deal on behalf of the United States without the consent of the legislative branch.
Quote:
I see... the US is in Iraq under some sort of mandate. Naturally, they want to continue staying there!! Gone is the hope of a troop withdrawal!
The two countries need to reach some kind of an agreement this year in order to create a legal framework for the continued presence of US troops in Iraq after Dec. 31, when a United Nations Security Counsel mandate is due to expire.
Quote:
Mrs. Clinton:
But the "long-term relationship of cooperation and friendship" outlined in November goes far beyond an ordinary status-of-forces agreement. It would include promises of debt forgiveness, economic and technical aid, facilitating "especially American investments" in Iraq - and the security commitments, according to Bush and Maliki's joint declaration last November.
Quote:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar...ld_be_a_first/
"We've got to rein in President Bush," Clinton said Monday in a South Carolina debate. "We need legislation in a hurry."
----------------------------------------------------------------
What a strange behavior from Mr. Bush!
This was in January. In the meantime things could have changed.
House Member
Posts: 4,558
Location: Minnesota: Gopher State
Location: Minnesota: Gopher State
June 24th, 2008, 09:39 PM
Bush is still trying to get that long term deal in Iraq which is obviously intended to secure the oil wells for the warmongers who profit from his war. Unfortunately, the do nothing Congress sits by idly and allows him to continue his reign of terror.
Bush is still trying to get that long term deal in Iraq which is obviously intended to secure the oil wells for the warmongers who profit from his war. Unfortunately, the do nothing Congress sits by idly and allows him to continue his reign of terror.
House Member
Posts: 4,558
Location: Minnesota: Gopher State
Location: Minnesota: Gopher State
June 28th, 2008, 10:59 PM
Saturday: 1 Azeri Soldier, 41 Iraqis Killed; 2 Iraqis Wounded
http://www.antiwar.com/updates/?articleid=13063
The ugliness of Evil Bush's imperialistic war continues unabated.
Saturday: 1 Azeri Soldier, 41 Iraqis Killed; 2 Iraqis Wounded
http://www.antiwar.com/updates/?articleid=13063
The ugliness of Evil Bush's imperialistic war continues unabated.
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,612
June 29th, 2008, 09:13 AM
ITN
Sorry for jumping in here...on a question you asked Norm...but I couldn't resist..
Whomever the next president of the United States may be, the dynamics at play in the very heart, in the fabric of America will determine what happens. I don't subscribe to the myth that America is a democracy, it is a republic and as a republic, it has repeated many times that the purpose of America is to shape the world as those premier republicans that run the United States wish it to be..... America has voluntarily surrendered to an infatuation with wealth and power. There may be some republicans who mirror the xenophobia of an Adolph Hitler but they're hopefully a dying minority among the PTB. I have less trepidation regarding racism and fear of anything/anyone "foreign" to America as being a driving impulse to wage war and destruction on others. It would be anti-evolution for a people to crawl willingly back into a cave and live like no other human being shares this planet... Whether Americans "like-it-or-not", this is a finite limited world with resources that are being used faster than ever before as more people subscribe to the idea that it's their turn to experience the quality of life that American (and Canadians) have enjoyed for a very long time. Either the people of America (and Canada) come to terms with the reality that "foreign" folk aren't going to abandon their efforts to attain and obtain the best quality of life for themselves and their children that its potentially (whether misguided or not) possible to have. Resources like water and energy will be in far greater demand. Republicans will decide if Americans are weaned off their "Everything in the world is mine.." (as my "right" and my "destiny") for my exclusive use and enjoyment and any threat to this paradigm will be met with violence and war.....to a place that realistically accepts that if we are to survive as a species we have some serious re-thinking to do regarding how we view ourselves others and the very planet upon which we live.....EVERYONE!
A staunch republican will have considerable difficulty with this idea. Republicans are conditioned/raised to believe that hard work and prudent investment assure future prosperity. And it would if there weren's just as many good republicans convinced that the use of any and all "means" to secure the wealth success and prosperity they regard as their just entitlement...is equally the manifest destiny and "right" of every "good" American.
We've seen it before....in America.
America as a political and economic entity is shaped by a very small but very powerful elite who may or may not have the wisdom to conceptualize the reality this world faces. Whether they have the wisdom to acknowledge reality or not they have demonstrated that they're willing to ignore reshape and redefine that understanding as another "means" to attaining the "end" of wealth power and authority.
The American people are facing yet another test. Albeit somewhat peculiar (having watched as slavery was abandoned by many other societies) the early test of American society resulted in the bloodiest war (in terms of numbers of Americans killed in war) fought over the dispositon of decision/law-making authority between state and federal government...with slavery and racism as the overarching "principle"....
America failed that test, and a fermenting unrest and growing interracial disparity ensures that this unresolved issue will remain for a significant period. In addition the business and economic sectors of "good" republicans don't mind allowing illegal immigration as another "means" to achieving their goals.....
America has to grow up. Leadership is important and as we've witnessed from the George W. Bush cabal...critical to the stability and security of the United States, but unless and until Americans begin to get more comfortable with the reality that they share this planet with millions upon millions of other people who don't subscribe to American "values"...who have ancient cultures vulnerable to manipulation by religious freaks and fanatics....that water and aerable land and opportunity to work and raise a family is just as important to those millions as they are to Americans. America will make the choice....join the world...or not.
ITN
Sorry for jumping in here...on a question you asked Norm...but I couldn't resist..
Whomever the next president of the United States may be, the dynamics at play in the very heart, in the fabric of America will determine what happens. I don't subscribe to the myth that America is a democracy, it is a republic and as a republic, it has repeated many times that the purpose of America is to shape the world as those premier republicans that run the United States wish it to be..... America has voluntarily surrendered to an infatuation with wealth and power. There may be some republicans who mirror the xenophobia of an Adolph Hitler but they're hopefully a dying minority among the PTB. I have less trepidation regarding racism and fear of anything/anyone "foreign" to America as being a driving impulse to wage war and destruction on others. It would be anti-evolution for a people to crawl willingly back into a cave and live like no other human being shares this planet... Whether Americans "like-it-or-not", this is a finite limited world with resources that are being used faster than ever before as more people subscribe to the idea that it's their turn to experience the quality of life that American (and Canadians) have enjoyed for a very long time. Either the people of America (and Canada) come to terms with the reality that "foreign" folk aren't going to abandon their efforts to attain and obtain the best quality of life for themselves and their children that its potentially (whether misguided or not) possible to have. Resources like water and energy will be in far greater demand. Republicans will decide if Americans are weaned off their "Everything in the world is mine.." (as my "right" and my "destiny") for my exclusive use and enjoyment and any threat to this paradigm will be met with violence and war.....to a place that realistically accepts that if we are to survive as a species we have some serious re-thinking to do regarding how we view ourselves others and the very planet upon which we live.....EVERYONE!
A staunch republican will have considerable difficulty with this idea. Republicans are conditioned/raised to believe that hard work and prudent investment assure future prosperity. And it would if there weren's just as many good republicans convinced that the use of any and all "means" to secure the wealth success and prosperity they regard as their just entitlement...is equally the manifest destiny and "right" of every "good" American.
We've seen it before....in America.
America as a political and economic entity is shaped by a very small but very powerful elite who may or may not have the wisdom to conceptualize the reality this world faces. Whether they have the wisdom to acknowledge reality or not they have demonstrated that they're willing to ignore reshape and redefine that understanding as another "means" to attaining the "end" of wealth power and authority.
The American people are facing yet another test. Albeit somewhat peculiar (having watched as slavery was abandoned by many other societies) the early test of American society resulted in the bloodiest war (in terms of numbers of Americans killed in war) fought over the dispositon of decision/law-making authority between state and federal government...with slavery and racism as the overarching "principle"....
America failed that test, and a fermenting unrest and growing interracial disparity ensures that this unresolved issue will remain for a significant period. In addition the business and economic sectors of "good" republicans don't mind allowing illegal immigration as another "means" to achieving their goals.....
America has to grow up. Leadership is important and as we've witnessed from the George W. Bush cabal...critical to the stability and security of the United States, but unless and until Americans begin to get more comfortable with the reality that they share this planet with millions upon millions of other people who don't subscribe to American "values"...who have ancient cultures vulnerable to manipulation by religious freaks and fanatics....that water and aerable land and opportunity to work and raise a family is just as important to those millions as they are to Americans. America will make the choice....join the world...or not.
Hall of Fame Member
Posts: 10,505
Location: The Evil Empire
Location: The Evil Empire
June 29th, 2008, 12:40 PM
Quoting I think not
This bears repeating.
A war being senseless is a matter of perspective, ask 15 million Kurds what they think.
Council Member
Posts: 1,678
June 29th, 2008, 12:42 PM
Most Kurds want independance. I bet they would also support the US invading and occupying the Kurdish part of Turkey too. Do you think that's a good idea too? I mean if that a good enough reason to murder hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis, that must also be a good enough reason to murder hundreds of thousands of innocent Turks.
Face it ITN, justification for the US led invasion of Iraq was a bunch of lies. Bad intelligence would have been misjudging the size of Iraq's WMD stockpiles. But claiming they existed when they didn't and then forcing Iraq to prove their non-existance was deliberate misinformation and manipulation.
Some people were smart enough to figure out that absence of proof isn't proof of existance. Other people can't tell $hit from Shinola.
Most Kurds want independance. I bet they would also support the US invading and occupying the Kurdish part of Turkey too. Do you think that's a good idea too? I mean if that a good enough reason to murder hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis, that must also be a good enough reason to murder hundreds of thousands of innocent Turks.
Face it ITN, justification for the US led invasion of Iraq was a bunch of lies. Bad intelligence would have been misjudging the size of Iraq's WMD stockpiles. But claiming they existed when they didn't and then forcing Iraq to prove their non-existance was deliberate misinformation and manipulation.
Some people were smart enough to figure out that absence of proof isn't proof of existance. Other people can't tell $hit from Shinola.
Hall of Fame Member
Posts: 10,505
Location: The Evil Empire
Location: The Evil Empire
June 29th, 2008, 12:45 PM
Got a tad bent out of shape there EAO? Kurds are partying and laughing at your perspective, quite a few Shiites and Sunnis also.
Forgive me, I would rather listen to the people on the ground than someone behind a computer thousands of miles away.
Carry on.
Got a tad bent out of shape there EAO? Kurds are partying and laughing at your perspective, quite a few Shiites and Sunnis also.
Forgive me, I would rather listen to the people on the ground than someone behind a computer thousands of miles away.
Carry on.
