Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,650 
Location: Vancouver Island
Location: Vancouver Island
March 23rd, 2008, 12:38 AM
and, oh, by the way, yes, the worst president ever, by a country mile.
Quoting mrgrumpy
hallaluyah!!!!!
I say the same for every religionist who puts the myths of their 'holy books' before the rights and dignity of men and women.
and, oh, by the way, yes, the worst president ever, by a country mile.
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,544
March 23rd, 2008, 06:40 AM
Quoting Sal
These numbers seem free of hyperbole. http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
A fair point. Whose numbers would you use?
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,604
March 23rd, 2008, 08:12 AM
Ah yes....the numbers....
'Numbers' are nice safe things that are eloquent in their simplicity but they fail to provide a sufficiently clear picture. Let's imagine that we sent all the people in Washington away for oh say a month.... Then we destroy their city.
Without killing a single human being, the electricity grid, the water and sewage systems, the infrastructure that supports trade and facilitates education...gone.
Family homes that have been occupied for generations, businesses that have provided the means by which decent food and health care can be obtained....gone.
It's one of the great whines we hear from the current American administration and military that the Iraqi government isn't "stepping up to the plate" when it comes to fashioning a "government" out of the rubble that remains after Americans destroyed this country. It seems entirely appropriate that the United States of America begin paying reparations to the people of Iraq.
Had there been stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction, re-building their cities and towns would still be in the best interests of everyone, but choosing instead to unleash wholesale death and destruction on the basis of a lie and culpable misdirection on the part of the Pentagon and the Executive is the legacy of the American people.
Every day George Bush goes unpunished for this destruction sends a clear message to the world.
American's regard their lives and their cities and institutions and highways and schools and hospitals and homes as far more valuable than EVERYONE ELSE'S!
Even if we "throw out" the 'numbers', George Bush et al. have devastated a nation that is by every source available innocent of everything they were accused of having done wrong.
Americans are muderers, no better than the many and various enemies of humanity that spawned every war of conquest and prejudice. Geoge Bush represents America to the world and the cowboy mentality of the American "culture" is alive and well in the hearts and minds of these people until this gangster is brought to justice. "Terrorism" is what the people of America have committed against not only the people of Iraq but many millions around the world and George Bush is the greatest terrorist to emerge from postmodern society.
Giving George Bush a "pass" is tantamount to spitting in the faces of children orphaned by American cruise missiles and families destroyed by America's lies.
Whether it's Homeland Security or the FBI or any other alphabet-soup fascist organization trumpetting the "need" for "security", Americans won't be secure and will likely never be secure again.....and they can look at themselves in the mirror and thank George Bush for the world they and everyone else now lives in.
George Bush is a traitor and a tyrant, and it is only the American people that provide him with this power.
Ah yes....the numbers....
'Numbers' are nice safe things that are eloquent in their simplicity but they fail to provide a sufficiently clear picture. Let's imagine that we sent all the people in Washington away for oh say a month.... Then we destroy their city.
Without killing a single human being, the electricity grid, the water and sewage systems, the infrastructure that supports trade and facilitates education...gone.
Family homes that have been occupied for generations, businesses that have provided the means by which decent food and health care can be obtained....gone.
It's one of the great whines we hear from the current American administration and military that the Iraqi government isn't "stepping up to the plate" when it comes to fashioning a "government" out of the rubble that remains after Americans destroyed this country. It seems entirely appropriate that the United States of America begin paying reparations to the people of Iraq.
Had there been stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction, re-building their cities and towns would still be in the best interests of everyone, but choosing instead to unleash wholesale death and destruction on the basis of a lie and culpable misdirection on the part of the Pentagon and the Executive is the legacy of the American people.
Every day George Bush goes unpunished for this destruction sends a clear message to the world.
American's regard their lives and their cities and institutions and highways and schools and hospitals and homes as far more valuable than EVERYONE ELSE'S!
Even if we "throw out" the 'numbers', George Bush et al. have devastated a nation that is by every source available innocent of everything they were accused of having done wrong.
Americans are muderers, no better than the many and various enemies of humanity that spawned every war of conquest and prejudice. Geoge Bush represents America to the world and the cowboy mentality of the American "culture" is alive and well in the hearts and minds of these people until this gangster is brought to justice. "Terrorism" is what the people of America have committed against not only the people of Iraq but many millions around the world and George Bush is the greatest terrorist to emerge from postmodern society.
Giving George Bush a "pass" is tantamount to spitting in the faces of children orphaned by American cruise missiles and families destroyed by America's lies.
Whether it's Homeland Security or the FBI or any other alphabet-soup fascist organization trumpetting the "need" for "security", Americans won't be secure and will likely never be secure again.....and they can look at themselves in the mirror and thank George Bush for the world they and everyone else now lives in.
George Bush is a traitor and a tyrant, and it is only the American people that provide him with this power.
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,604
March 23rd, 2008, 09:52 AM
Before we (western nations at least) became "enlightened" and recognized mass-murder for what it is...that the actions of ancient conquering nations should be put into a perspective that provides greater lattitude because after-all, primitive times yield primitive solutions...so to speak...
Are you suggesting that the slaughters that occurred under FDR and Lincoln were product of this same barbarism? What kind of numbers can you provide that can help us assess the "cut-off-point" where for example "X" numbers of deaths can be reasonably attributable to barbaric primitivism and thus excused....while an "enlightened" society eschews a similar primitivism that relishes the demonstration of military might and as many deaths as can be "acheived".... Perhaps a ratio between the ordinance expended and the "numbers" can give us an indication....
George Bush and "America" wring their hands and beat their chests when figures coming out of the massacres going on around the world like Rwanda or Darfur or ...well pick a place...but the "urgent necessity" for American military action...in these "enlightened" times isn't the same thing....
Practicing regime-change through embargo and blockades, arming factions within other nations and the results of the "numbers" of deaths occurring as result of these actions is nicely omitted isn't it?
When your nation rallies to the "cowboy" and lionizes the gangster...when your people are unwilling and unable to bring resolution to racism and hide behind "god"-beliefs as rationale for hatred and disenfranchisement....when your children are carrying guns into schools and killing classmates and your political system is rife with hypocrisy and corruption...are these the hallmarks of a people that have escaped the barbarism and primitivism of the times whenFDR's and Lincoln's massacres were witnessed?
George Bush is more guilty..... Just ask Colpy.
Quoting Walter
Interesting point Walter. Colpy has assurred us that in terms of death/genocide/pogroms etc. in so far as the massive slaughter of South and Central Americans by the Spanish and various other nations killing natives and anyone in their way while expanding their imperial authority...that the "times" provides a mitigating factor..... Yes. Lincoln and FDR come to mind.
Before we (western nations at least) became "enlightened" and recognized mass-murder for what it is...that the actions of ancient conquering nations should be put into a perspective that provides greater lattitude because after-all, primitive times yield primitive solutions...so to speak...
Are you suggesting that the slaughters that occurred under FDR and Lincoln were product of this same barbarism? What kind of numbers can you provide that can help us assess the "cut-off-point" where for example "X" numbers of deaths can be reasonably attributable to barbaric primitivism and thus excused....while an "enlightened" society eschews a similar primitivism that relishes the demonstration of military might and as many deaths as can be "acheived".... Perhaps a ratio between the ordinance expended and the "numbers" can give us an indication....
George Bush and "America" wring their hands and beat their chests when figures coming out of the massacres going on around the world like Rwanda or Darfur or ...well pick a place...but the "urgent necessity" for American military action...in these "enlightened" times isn't the same thing....
Practicing regime-change through embargo and blockades, arming factions within other nations and the results of the "numbers" of deaths occurring as result of these actions is nicely omitted isn't it?
When your nation rallies to the "cowboy" and lionizes the gangster...when your people are unwilling and unable to bring resolution to racism and hide behind "god"-beliefs as rationale for hatred and disenfranchisement....when your children are carrying guns into schools and killing classmates and your political system is rife with hypocrisy and corruption...are these the hallmarks of a people that have escaped the barbarism and primitivism of the times whenFDR's and Lincoln's massacres were witnessed?
George Bush is more guilty..... Just ask Colpy.
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,544
March 23rd, 2008, 11:21 AM
Lincoln was in power when about 1,000,000 soldiers and civilians died as a result of the Civil War. FDR sent between 300,000 and 500,00 (depends on the source) American soldiers to die on the battlefields of WWII. W has a long way to go to match these numbers.
Lincoln was in power when about 1,000,000 soldiers and civilians died as a result of the Civil War. FDR sent between 300,000 and 500,00 (depends on the source) American soldiers to die on the battlefields of WWII. W has a long way to go to match these numbers.
Member
Posts: 102
Location: Pennsylvania
Location: Pennsylvania
March 23rd, 2008, 01:13 PM
i just want to say that after 9-11 every American wanted to attack the terrorists, George Bush did what he as a Christian and as an American thought was right and attacked terrorism at its source and the people gave up, they changed their minds, they wanted to quit before it was over, George Bush didnt change, the people did
i just want to say that after 9-11 every American wanted to attack the terrorists, George Bush did what he as a Christian and as an American thought was right and attacked terrorism at its source and the people gave up, they changed their minds, they wanted to quit before it was over, George Bush didnt change, the people did
Time Out
Posts: 360 
Location: The desolate but charming outback of the prairies.
Location: The desolate but charming outback of the prairies.
March 23rd, 2008, 02:23 PM
Funny how all the terrorists who where responsible for 9/11 came from Saudi Arabia..but Dubya was never that good on geography.
Quoting McCaulley
i just want to say that after 9-11 every American wanted to attack the terrorists, George Bush did what he as a Christian and as an American thought was right and attacked terrorism at its source and the people gave up, they changed their minds, they wanted to quit before it was over, George Bush didnt change, the people did
Funny how all the terrorists who where responsible for 9/11 came from Saudi Arabia..but Dubya was never that good on geography.
Member
Posts: 102
Location: Pennsylvania
Location: Pennsylvania
March 23rd, 2008, 02:33 PM
Yes, but Sadam Hussein was harboring terrorists and he had the capacity to create weapons of mass destruction. So we went in and got rid of him and are now in the process of rebuilding the country, yet everyone wants to pull out our troops. Why? if we pull out now everything we did and all the people who died will have died in vain. Iraq will erupt into a full-blown civil war and many more people will be killed, and eventually a new dictator will take over and we will have to take him out again
Yes, but Sadam Hussein was harboring terrorists and he had the capacity to create weapons of mass destruction. So we went in and got rid of him and are now in the process of rebuilding the country, yet everyone wants to pull out our troops. Why? if we pull out now everything we did and all the people who died will have died in vain. Iraq will erupt into a full-blown civil war and many more people will be killed, and eventually a new dictator will take over and we will have to take him out again
Time Out
Posts: 360
Location: The desolate but charming outback of the prairies.
Location: The desolate but charming outback of the prairies.
March 23rd, 2008, 02:48 PM
And speaking of all those "who died in vain"...they died because America needs oil and a few million lives are worth nothing to keep up their standard of gluttony.
Quoting McCaulley
My , my, now Saddam only had the "CAPACITY" to produce WMD? (so does my ex-wife, har har) A few years ago the YANKS said he had them and that was justification enough for invasion...how the stories change..
Yes, but Sadam Hussein was harboring terrorists and he had the capacity to create weapons of mass destruction. So we went in and got rid of him and are now in the process of rebuilding the country, yet everyone wants to pull out our troops. Why? if we pull out now everything we did and all the people who died will have died in vain. Iraq will erupt into a full-blown civil war and many more people will be killed, and eventually a new dictator will take over and we will have to take him out again
And speaking of all those "who died in vain"...they died because America needs oil and a few million lives are worth nothing to keep up their standard of gluttony.
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,650
Location: Vancouver Island
Location: Vancouver Island
March 23rd, 2008, 04:33 PM
they are not rebuilding the country they are destroying it, just ask the people who live
there who haven't had basic utilities in years. A new dictator took over 5 yrs ago, he is
the u.s. president.
all the people who died in iraq, died in vain, and will continue to do so till the u.s.
leave, then whatever happens, happens, and the u.s. government will still be to blame.
saddam hussein was a tyrant, and george bush is a tyrant, they both caused much harm
in different ways to the people of iraq. It's a dirty rottin shame.
Quoting McCaulley
george bush is responsible for all who have died in Iraq. saddam husein was not harbouring terrorists, there were no bin laden followers in iraq till after the u.s. arrived.
Yes, but Sadam Hussein was harboring terrorists and he had the capacity to create weapons of mass destruction. So we went in and got rid of him and are now in the process of rebuilding the country, yet everyone wants to pull out our troops. Why? if we pull out now everything we did and all the people who died will have died in vain. Iraq will erupt into a full-blown civil war and many more people will be killed, and eventually a new dictator will take over and we will have to take him out again
they are not rebuilding the country they are destroying it, just ask the people who live
there who haven't had basic utilities in years. A new dictator took over 5 yrs ago, he is
the u.s. president.
all the people who died in iraq, died in vain, and will continue to do so till the u.s.
leave, then whatever happens, happens, and the u.s. government will still be to blame.
saddam hussein was a tyrant, and george bush is a tyrant, they both caused much harm
in different ways to the people of iraq. It's a dirty rottin shame.
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,604
March 23rd, 2008, 06:48 PM
Eric Margolis on Spitzer
"First, the White House refused to release an exhaustive Pentagon review of 600,000 Iraqi documents that found no evidence that Saddam Hussein had any links with al-Qaida.
This al-Qaida connection was the second big lie propagated by the Bush White House to justify invading Iraq. So successfully was it spread by the administration and tame media, that on the eve of the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq, 80% of Americans blamed Saddam for 9/11."
Thanks for your perspective McCaulley. Please let us know who you'll be voting for....
Quoting McCaulley
i just want to say that after 9-11 every American wanted to attack the terrorists, George Bush did what he as a Christian and as an American thought was right and attacked terrorism at its source and the people gave up, they changed their minds, they wanted to quit before it was over, George Bush didnt change, the people did
Eric Margolis on Spitzer
"First, the White House refused to release an exhaustive Pentagon review of 600,000 Iraqi documents that found no evidence that Saddam Hussein had any links with al-Qaida.
This al-Qaida connection was the second big lie propagated by the Bush White House to justify invading Iraq. So successfully was it spread by the administration and tame media, that on the eve of the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq, 80% of Americans blamed Saddam for 9/11."
Thanks for your perspective McCaulley. Please let us know who you'll be voting for....
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,534
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
March 23rd, 2008, 07:01 PM
Woof!
Quoting McCaulley
Do you poop red white and blue? If George finished his job, Dubya wouldn't have got so confused on his way to find Ali Babba.
Yes, but Sadam Hussein was harboring terrorists and he had the capacity to create weapons of mass destruction. So we went in and got rid of him and are now in the process of rebuilding the country, yet everyone wants to pull out our troops. Why? if we pull out now everything we did and all the people who died will have died in vain. Iraq will erupt into a full-blown civil war and many more people will be killed, and eventually a new dictator will take over and we will have to take him out again
Woof!
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,650
Location: Vancouver Island
Location: Vancouver Island
March 23rd, 2008, 07:32 PM
story, they have nothing to do with each other Bush quit in afghanistan, before it was over, went into iraq, a criminal act, failed and destroyed that country, and somewhere along the way realized that afghanistan is becoming
worse than it was before, now they are building up in that country again, 'a buffoon trying to make serious decisions,
when he wasn't capable'.
Quoting McCaulley
If you are referring to Afghanistan, that is true, (doesn't have anything to do with christian though, it's just human), BUT when referring to Iraq it is a completely different
i just want to say that after 9-11 every American wanted to attack the terrorists, George Bush did what he as a Christian and as an American thought was right and attacked terrorism at its source and the people gave up, they changed their minds, they wanted to quit before it was over, George Bush didnt change, the people did
story, they have nothing to do with each other Bush quit in afghanistan, before it was over, went into iraq, a criminal act, failed and destroyed that country, and somewhere along the way realized that afghanistan is becoming
worse than it was before, now they are building up in that country again, 'a buffoon trying to make serious decisions,
when he wasn't capable'.
Member
Posts: 102
Location: Pennsylvania
Location: Pennsylvania
March 23rd, 2008, 07:53 PM
Okay, well thank you for your opinions, by the way if i was old enough to vote i would vote for John McCain but im only fifteen so i wont be voting in the upcoming election but thanks for asking. I do belive that even if we cannot win in Iraq we should still stay there and not pull out beccuse our presence in the country is preventing a full-blown civil war that would result in many more deaths and so i believe we should stay in Iraq until their security forces are strong enough to control the country on their own. Also, how can Bush be the worst president in history when other presidents have sent more men to their deaths and the sole argument you are making is that Bush is the worst because of all the deaths under his presidency?
Okay, well thank you for your opinions, by the way if i was old enough to vote i would vote for John McCain but im only fifteen so i wont be voting in the upcoming election but thanks for asking. I do belive that even if we cannot win in Iraq we should still stay there and not pull out beccuse our presence in the country is preventing a full-blown civil war that would result in many more deaths and so i believe we should stay in Iraq until their security forces are strong enough to control the country on their own. Also, how can Bush be the worst president in history when other presidents have sent more men to their deaths and the sole argument you are making is that Bush is the worst because of all the deaths under his presidency?
