War Crimes?

[#juan]

I've run across several stories about poor water services in Bagdad, as well as with stories about how the power grid is getting worse. What some of the press are saying is that under Saddam these services were allowed to deteriorate. BULL! Both the water purification plants and the power grid were bombed to hell in the first Gulf War. Sanctions prevented the acquisition of the parts necessary to rebuild them, indirectly causing a million deaths in Iraq. If that wasn't a war crime, I don't know what is.

 

[Pangloss]

Juan;

If Kissinger will never face justice for his war crimes, these bozos will most certainly never be called to account. . .

Pangloss

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

I'm with ya totally on this one Juan.....It's a disgrace...hell Germany did not suffer this long after WWII....It's all ineptitude...or is it just allowing things to fester out of control till we are at total war with the mid east?

 

[Toro]

But the peaceniks wanted sanctions on Iraq rather than an invasion of Kuwait to begin with. This is what sanctions do.

Who you going to charge, the UN? It was UN that imposed the sanctions.

So, of course not.

 

[Zzarchov]

Germany didn't suffer this much because Germany stopped fighting.

If you think being without power and water is a warcrime, then lets haul up our own government, im to understand many of our own populace don't have it. And they DON'T throw bombs around breaking them, its peace time here.

Oh, and lets go after the majority of the world while we are after it. Lets not forget, the world isn't one big first world nation.


Gassing the elderly, women and children and bulldozing them into a ditch is a warcrime Juan, which happens all the time, even today despite our protests of "never again" and our false hand wringing. It happened before the first gulf war and we never went in to stop it. Because some people seem to equate that if you don't provide utilities immediately after the local populace bomb them you should be hung.

So we listen to them, and let actual adamant war criminals kill even more. You know what would have ended the sanctions also? Saddam stepping down.

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

Germany didn't suffer this much because Germany stopped fighting.

If you think being without power and water is a warcrime, then lets haul up our own government, im to understand many of our own populace don't have it. And they DON'T throw bombs around breaking them, its peace time here.

Pretty hard not to agree..ok you got me on this one...Ceptin who actually is doing the fighting back....surely not the average Iraqi wanting to live a normal life....Isn't still the real enemy , the fundamentalist Islamic extremeists wanting to destroy any semblance of democracy and freedom in Iraq.
I mean Bush made a huge boo boo....but thats like so yesterday now that we got this situation....

 

[Zzarchov]

Its not about WHO is fighting back, its that its unreasonable to expect them to get power and water running when as soon as they string it up SOMEONE bombs it.

 

[Colpy]

I've run across several stories about poor water services in Bagdad, as well as with stories about how the power grid is getting worse. What some of the press are saying is that under Saddam these services were allowed to deteriorate. BULL! Both the water purification plants and the power grid were bombed to hell in the first Gulf War. Sanctions prevented the acquisition of the parts necessary to rebuild them, indirectly causing a million deaths in Iraq. If that wasn't a war crime, I don't know what is.

Juan, I'm going to take you to task on this one.....

First of all, the idea that sanctions led to a million deaths in Iraq is silly. Any figures I have seen spoke of half a million children's deaths, and the figures came from the UN, as supplied by the Iraqi gov't. Laughable! As for any deaths that did occur, there was an oil for food and medicine program in place, and the west can hardly be blamed if Saddam didn't use the program to help his people.


Likewise with infrastructure. Sanctions were a joke. Saddam managed to build a couple of dozen outlandishly expensive, exquisite, modern, well serviced palaces complete with bunkers in these same years............so why didn't he fix the water system and power grid? Because they served as a constant reminder that the people's suffering was the result of actions by the Great Satan...............

Don't be fooled by propaganda from a madman..........

 

[#juan]

Juan, I'm going to take you to task on this one.....

First of all, the idea that sanctions led to a million deaths in Iraq is silly. Any figures I have seen spoke of half a million children's deaths, and the figures came from the UN, as supplied by the Iraqi gov't. Laughable! As for any deaths that did occur, there was an oil for food and medicine program in place, and the west can hardly be blamed if Saddam didn't use the program to help his people.


Likewise with infrastructure. Sanctions were a joke. Saddam managed to build a couple of dozen outlandishly expensive, exquisite, modern, well serviced palaces complete with bunkers in these same years............so why didn't he fix the water system and power grid? Because they served as a constant reminder that the people's suffering was the result of actions by the Great Satan...............

Don't be fooled by propaganda from a madman..........

First, I am not fooled by any propaganda.
The fact remains that in the first gulf war, the ostensible object was to get the Iraqis out of Kuwait. The bombing was going on long after the Iraqis left that country, indeed, the bombing continued sporadically for the next twelve years. What was done was to punish the people for the actions of their leader. The bombing was not limited to power plants and water purification plants. They also bombed government buildings and sewage treatment plants, and any other infrastructure they could find. The number of deaths due to the sanctions depends on where you get your numbers. I'll stick with mine which are not the highest. I will be the first to admit that Saddam was no saint but remember Saddam was sucked into that stupid war in the first place. Also remember the reason for the war was the Kuwaite "slant-drilling" into Iraqi oil fields that Saddam brought up to the American embassador at the time. Remember as well that the Americans had a big hand in installing Saddam Hussein before all of this started.

http://tinyurl.com/32u9k6

 

[Toro]

You are sounding like an apologist for one of the worst dictators on the planet, Juan. No kidding he was "not a saint" considering Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch estimated that up to 300,000 people died under his reign.

Saddam was not "sucked" into a war. Saddam invaded a country for its oil fields. There is absolutely no one responsible for the invasion of Kuwait other than Saddam and his cohort of advisers.

 

[#juan]

Pick a number

SADDAM HUSSEINcountrykill tallybackgroundmini biographycommentmore informationreflections on killers
Saddam Hussein

Full name Saddam Hussein al-Majid al-Tikriti. AKA 'Great Uncle', AKA 'Lion of Babylon', AKA 'Lion of Iraq', AKA 'Beast of Baghdad'. Saddam translates to 'One Who Confronts'.
Country: Iraq.
Kill tally: Approaching two million, including between 150,000 and 340,000 Iraqi and between 450,000 and 730,000 Iranian combatants killed during the Iran-Iraq War. An estimated 1,000 Kuwaiti nationals killed following the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. No conclusive figures for the number of Iraqis killed during the Gulf War, with estimates varying from as few as 1,500 to as many as 200,000. Over 100,000 Kurds killed or "disappeared". No reliable figures for the number of Iraqi dissidents and Shia Muslims killed during Hussein's reign, though estimates put the figure between 60,000 and 150,000. (Mass graves discovered following the US occupation of Iraq in 2003 suggest that the total combined figure for Kurds, Shias and dissidents killed could be as high as 300,000). Approximately 500,000 Iraqi children dead because of international trade sanctions introduced following the Gulf War.

 

[gopher]

Don't be fooled by propaganda from a madman..........


Yeah, especially when he says there are WMD all throughout Iraq along with 45 minute attack capability and is an imminent threat of danger.

 

[Logic 7]

I've run across several stories about poor water services in Bagdad, as well as with stories about how the power grid is getting worse. What some of the press are saying is that under Saddam these services were allowed to deteriorate. BULL! Both the water purification plants and the power grid were bombed to hell in the first Gulf War. Sanctions prevented the acquisition of the parts necessary to rebuild them, indirectly causing a million deaths in Iraq. If that wasn't a war crime, I don't know what is.

Pentagon officials declined two written requests for a review of the 28 electrical targets and explanations of their specific military relevance.

"People say, 'You didn't recognize that it was going to have an effect on water or sewage,'" said the planning officer. "Well, what were we trying to do with [United Nations-approved economic] sanctions --- help out the Iraqi people? No. What we were doing with the attacks on infrastructure was to accelerate the effect of sanctions."

Col. John Warden III, deputy director of strategy, doctrine and plans for the Air Force, agreed that one purpose of destroying Iraq's electrical grid was that "you have imposed a long-term problem on the leadership that it has to deal with sometime."

"Saddam Hussein cannot restore his own electricity," he said. "He needs help. If there are political objectives that the U.N. coalition has, it can say, 'Saddam, when you agree to do these things, we will allow people to come in and fix your electricity.' It gives us long-term leverage."

http://www.scn.org/ccpi/infrastructure.html



When someone tells me that the war in iraq is justified or anything like that, i just become very upset.

Finally the west( usa-canada etcc) are just a bunch of ingnorant hypocryte idiots, when i read this kind of quote and look what people like colpy writes in here, that is the only thing that comes to my mind.

 

[Curiosity]

Oh dear Logic 7 - would you consider changing your name to "sunshine"?

 

[Logic 7]

Oh dear Logic 7 - would you consider changing your name to "sunshine"?

The name i choose is perfect, however if i was you , i would change my name to "no curiosity"

 

[Zzarchov]

Hey, the Iraqi people aren't blameless, leaders to run the nation from their force of will. They still need the support of the populace.

Support that includes helping to make sure their "inferior" non-arab kurdish neighbours disappear into the night, and no one asks were the free home with the all the pictures of a Kurdish family in it they were given as a reward came from.

You know what would have ended the Sanctions? Not keeping your madman dictator who keeps invading his neighbours and exterminating his "impure' citizens in power.

 

[Logic 7]

Hey, the Iraqi people aren't blameless, leaders to run the nation from their force of will. They still need the support of the populace.

Support that includes helping to make sure their "inferior" non-arab kurdish neighbours disappear into the night, and no one asks were the free home with the all the pictures of a Kurdish family in it they were given as a reward came from.

You know what would have ended the Sanctions? Not keeping your madman dictator who keeps invading his neighbours and exterminating his "impure' citizens in power.

Saddam was a dictator who gased the kurd in 1988, when he was sttrongly supported by BUsh 1 administration, no US media talked about that tragedy, and if i look how many nation US has threaten to attack or just attack in the last couples years, then saddam hussein regime wasnt that bad at all to compare with those retards at the white house.

According to van sponek and denis halliday( they worked for the sanctions in iraq) USA and UK are to blame for the United sanctions, this is called doing your homework.

 

[Zzarchov]

Woah there. Saddam didn't Gas the kurds, way to falsely place blame.

He ORDERED the gassing of the kurds, and a whole large line of Iraqi people, lined up to murder people all the way down to little kurdish babies.

Then all those Iraqi people hauled the corpses out, threw them in a ditch, and bulldozed them over.


This wasn't one mad serial killer, this was one mad serial killer mentality with a whole legion of people supporting him in murdering innocent people.

 

[Minority Observer84]

I've run across several stories about poor water services in Bagdad, as well as with stories about how the power grid is getting worse. What some of the press are saying is that under Saddam these services were allowed to deteriorate. BULL! Both the water purification plants and the power grid were bombed to hell in the first Gulf War. Sanctions prevented the acquisition of the parts necessary to rebuild them, indirectly causing a million deaths in Iraq. If that wasn't a war crime, I don't know what is.

You can write a book about the coalition war crimes in Iraq and many have been written . The fact is that the international laws relating to war crimes are not applicable to everyone just the people that the united states does not endorse .

 

[Logic 7]

I've run across several stories about poor water services in Bagdad, as well as with stories about how the power grid is getting worse. What some of the press are saying is that under Saddam these services were allowed to deteriorate. BULL! Both the water purification plants and the power grid were bombed to hell in the first Gulf War. Sanctions prevented the acquisition of the parts necessary to rebuild them, indirectly causing a million deaths in Iraq. If that wasn't a war crime, I don't know what is.

And By the way juan, giving people economic sanctions isnt a new strategy from white people remember those?

Yep, they used to kill these to weakened the Native indians, nothing has change since then.