Newbie
Posts: 26 
Location: calgary
Location: calgary
July 26th, 2006, 03:09 AM
both Democrats and Republicans are now on record that, in the name of “fighting terrorism,” U.S. allies—and, by extension, the United States as well—can essentially ignore international law and inflict unlimited damage on the civilian infrastructure of a small and largely defenseless country, even a pro-Western democracy like Lebanon."
link
both Democrats and Republicans are now on record that, in the name of “fighting terrorism,” U.S. allies—and, by extension, the United States as well—can essentially ignore international law and inflict unlimited damage on the civilian infrastructure of a small and largely defenseless country, even a pro-Western democracy like Lebanon."
link
Super Genius
Posts: 1,323
July 27th, 2006, 10:43 AM
Quite funny to see people who apperently defend freedom and democracy, support such claim.
Quoting
both Democrats and Republicans are now on record that, in the name of “fighting terrorism,” U.S. allies—and, by extension, the United States as well—can essentially ignore international law and inflict unlimited damage on the civilian infrastructure of a small and largely defenseless country, even a pro-Western democracy like Lebanon."
link
link
Quite funny to see people who apperently defend freedom and democracy, support such claim.
House Member
Posts: 4,563 
Location: Minnesota: Gopher State
Location: Minnesota: Gopher State
July 27th, 2006, 03:24 PM
The right wing warmongers claim they have done Iraq a great big favor by invading their land. The facts show otherwise:
http://<a rel="nofollow" href="http:...uri_1.html</a>
July 21, 2006
National Security Index
Posted by Michael Signer
Number of Iraqis who had access to potable water before invasion: 13 million
Number of Iraqis who have access to potable water, according to the April 2006 SIGIR report: 8 million
Number of the planned 142 health care clinics that actually will be completed under the Army Corps of Engineers $243 million program: 20
Number of the planned 136 sanitation and water projects that will be completed: 49
Number of Iraqi physicians registered prior to the invasion: 34,000
Number of Iraqi physicians who have been murdered or fled the country since the invasion: 14,000
Infant mortality rate in Iraq: (Middle East average is 37, sub-Saharan Africa average is 105): 102
Is there anyone out there who is still naive enough to believe that Bush's
criminal war was a good thing?
The right wing warmongers claim they have done Iraq a great big favor by invading their land. The facts show otherwise:
http://<a rel="nofollow" href="http:...uri_1.html</a>
July 21, 2006
National Security Index
Posted by Michael Signer
Number of Iraqis who had access to potable water before invasion: 13 million
Number of Iraqis who have access to potable water, according to the April 2006 SIGIR report: 8 million
Number of the planned 142 health care clinics that actually will be completed under the Army Corps of Engineers $243 million program: 20
Number of the planned 136 sanitation and water projects that will be completed: 49
Number of Iraqi physicians registered prior to the invasion: 34,000
Number of Iraqi physicians who have been murdered or fled the country since the invasion: 14,000
Infant mortality rate in Iraq: (Middle East average is 37, sub-Saharan Africa average is 105): 102
Is there anyone out there who is still naive enough to believe that Bush's
criminal war was a good thing? Super Genius
Posts: 1,202
July 27th, 2006, 03:57 PM
It was good for the US whose real intent is to lay waste to any culture that dares oppose them. Its an example of hobbling the rebellious slaves. Impeaching Bush will do nothing in the long run. the US WILL on average go to war every five years-
Its in their nature regardless of who is in power. It is the genetic imperative of anglosaxonism.
It will, eventually kill every living thing on the planet.
Afterwards --if there is an american survivor--he will blame the whole thing on France.
It was good for the US whose real intent is to lay waste to any culture that dares oppose them. Its an example of hobbling the rebellious slaves. Impeaching Bush will do nothing in the long run. the US WILL on average go to war every five years-
Its in their nature regardless of who is in power. It is the genetic imperative of anglosaxonism.
It will, eventually kill every living thing on the planet.
Afterwards --if there is an american survivor--he will blame the whole thing on France.
Metal King
Posts: 1,028
Location: Golden Horseshoe, Ontario
Location: Golden Horseshoe, Ontario
July 28th, 2006, 07:01 AM
Just to get the question out of the way before it's meaninglessly posed by some smug warmonger...
"answer me one question- do you agree that it's a good thing that Saddam is out of power??" which is usually followed up with some kind of explanation about how even if that's the ONE thing good to come out of this, it was all worth it.
I feel more and more every day that Saddam was leagues better than what that country has now. Sure he was brutal in a lot of ways, but how often did carbombs explode during his reign???
It is a sad but perfect irony that the US has killed SO MANY PEOPLE in actions that are multiples more barbaric than the stuff Saddam is accused of doing...
Saddest part of all is that it would appear that George Bush is nothing more than a perfect scapegoat- HE will be the Nixon character to take the fall, and everyone who profitted from the misadventures and the War Crimes being committed will point their fingers at him and say that he was "mad with power" and "there was nothing we could do to stop him" and so the idiot will hang while the villains go free
Just wait til the US' pal Israel whacks the beehive hard enough to make the REAL crap hit the fan over there, and the US finds out once more that they don't have nearly the capabilities their own propaganda has fooled them into taking comfort from. They can ignore international law all they want, but nuclear war (or whatever is coming- I don't forsee armageddon or anything like that, but it would astound me if nukes didn't come into play in some capacity or other in the very near future) is damn difficult to not notice
Any nation that won't join the International Criminal Court is both a coward and has something to hide
Just to get the question out of the way before it's meaninglessly posed by some smug warmonger...
"answer me one question- do you agree that it's a good thing that Saddam is out of power??" which is usually followed up with some kind of explanation about how even if that's the ONE thing good to come out of this, it was all worth it.
I feel more and more every day that Saddam was leagues better than what that country has now. Sure he was brutal in a lot of ways, but how often did carbombs explode during his reign???
It is a sad but perfect irony that the US has killed SO MANY PEOPLE in actions that are multiples more barbaric than the stuff Saddam is accused of doing...
Saddest part of all is that it would appear that George Bush is nothing more than a perfect scapegoat- HE will be the Nixon character to take the fall, and everyone who profitted from the misadventures and the War Crimes being committed will point their fingers at him and say that he was "mad with power" and "there was nothing we could do to stop him" and so the idiot will hang while the villains go free
Just wait til the US' pal Israel whacks the beehive hard enough to make the REAL crap hit the fan over there, and the US finds out once more that they don't have nearly the capabilities their own propaganda has fooled them into taking comfort from. They can ignore international law all they want, but nuclear war (or whatever is coming- I don't forsee armageddon or anything like that, but it would astound me if nukes didn't come into play in some capacity or other in the very near future) is damn difficult to not notice
Any nation that won't join the International Criminal Court is both a coward and has something to hide
Senate Member
Posts: 5,588
Location: Saint John, N.B.
Location: Saint John, N.B.
July 28th, 2006, 12:16 PM
International courts are a joke.
Law is useless if it can not be brought to bear on a significant number of those that defy it. Think of the nations led by mass murderers (China, Zimbabwe, Iran, North Korea, Syria, Saudi Arabia, IMHO, and just off the top of my head) How many of these leaders or their colleagues have come to the Court? NONE. It is a joke.
And it is seen as such throughout the world.
Law is WORSE than useless if it is used for political reasons............and that is why the US will not sign on. Among all the butchery in the world, there are many in the west who would see Bush tried, while ignoring China, North Korea......
The entire concept is flawed from the start. It is an attempt to begin building a framework for world governance........and that would be a disaster beyond all comprehension.
Life, ideas, creativeness, and evolution all depend on VARIETY.......a multitude of systems, laws, cultures, many of which fall by the wayside, some of which actually work.....survival of the fittest.
Chaos? Yes. Cruel? Yes, at times, but so is nature.
To try to force conformity on the chaos simply crushes any adaptability, it creates stagnation, and kills development and evolution...........
That is if any such thing is possible.
International courts are a joke.
Law is useless if it can not be brought to bear on a significant number of those that defy it. Think of the nations led by mass murderers (China, Zimbabwe, Iran, North Korea, Syria, Saudi Arabia, IMHO, and just off the top of my head) How many of these leaders or their colleagues have come to the Court? NONE. It is a joke.
And it is seen as such throughout the world.
Law is WORSE than useless if it is used for political reasons............and that is why the US will not sign on. Among all the butchery in the world, there are many in the west who would see Bush tried, while ignoring China, North Korea......
The entire concept is flawed from the start. It is an attempt to begin building a framework for world governance........and that would be a disaster beyond all comprehension.
Life, ideas, creativeness, and evolution all depend on VARIETY.......a multitude of systems, laws, cultures, many of which fall by the wayside, some of which actually work.....survival of the fittest.
Chaos? Yes. Cruel? Yes, at times, but so is nature.
To try to force conformity on the chaos simply crushes any adaptability, it creates stagnation, and kills development and evolution...........
That is if any such thing is possible.
Senate Member
Posts: 5,588
Location: Saint John, N.B.
Location: Saint John, N.B.
July 28th, 2006, 12:22 PM
This may be why I am such a hawk when it comes to the defense of western civilization. I see this as a clash of civilizations, as a struggle for supremacy of two systems, one of which believes in the worth of the individual and his ability to choose for himself, and one that would create a society so structured that the individual becomes invisible.
Perhaps the philosophy of western civilization can not triumph. Perhaps man can not be free, perhaps freedom diminishes the ability to act so much that our culture will collapse in the face of unified barbarism simply because we do not have the collective will to stand together.
But I hope not.
WOW!
That was a mouthful.
This may be why I am such a hawk when it comes to the defense of western civilization. I see this as a clash of civilizations, as a struggle for supremacy of two systems, one of which believes in the worth of the individual and his ability to choose for himself, and one that would create a society so structured that the individual becomes invisible.
Perhaps the philosophy of western civilization can not triumph. Perhaps man can not be free, perhaps freedom diminishes the ability to act so much that our culture will collapse in the face of unified barbarism simply because we do not have the collective will to stand together.
But I hope not.
WOW!
That was a mouthful.
Senate Member
Posts: 5,588
Location: Saint John, N.B.
Location: Saint John, N.B.
July 28th, 2006, 12:28 PM
Not even close.
Quote:
Saddam Hussein, by one calculation, was responsible for 136 deaths a DAY for his 20 year rule.
feel more and more every day that Saddam was leagues better than what that country has now. Sure he was brutal in a lot of ways, but how often did carbombs explode during his reign???
Not even close.
Executive Member
Posts: 9,534
July 28th, 2006, 12:52 PM
Colpy
I can't find reliable proof that Saddam killed even twenty people per day. It is beginning to look very much like there were some days when the bastard didn't kill anyone.
Meanwhile, if we add up the million deaths(mainly children) caused by the destruction of infrastructure and the brutal sanctions, the bombing during the latest invasion, plus the deaths in the ongoing civil war, I think we've probably got old Saddam beat.
Colpy
I can't find reliable proof that Saddam killed even twenty people per day. It is beginning to look very much like there were some days when the bastard didn't kill anyone.
Meanwhile, if we add up the million deaths(mainly children) caused by the destruction of infrastructure and the brutal sanctions, the bombing during the latest invasion, plus the deaths in the ongoing civil war, I think we've probably got old Saddam beat.
Clever Clogs
Posts: 526
Location: Pointy Rocks
Location: Pointy Rocks
July 28th, 2006, 02:16 PM
I laughed and danced when saddam was found in that hole with a bag of money and a gun. I would have gladly seen him assasinated, but it is just plain bad planning to bet that an occupied nation will be glad of the occupation. America took a gamble and is losing. Should have let Hans Blix do his thing.
I laughed and danced when saddam was found in that hole with a bag of money and a gun. I would have gladly seen him assasinated, but it is just plain bad planning to bet that an occupied nation will be glad of the occupation. America took a gamble and is losing. Should have let Hans Blix do his thing.
Council Member
Posts: 1,473
Location: Great Satan
Location: Great Satan
July 28th, 2006, 02:39 PM
I wish I could figure out why the appeasement crowd thinks that talking and negotiating with Isalmic Facism will ever work.
Just yesterday their leaders were basically calling for Islamic rule from Spain to Iraq. Do you really think they will stop there if they ever did indeed achieve that lofty and quite out of reach goal? You people who say negotiate, concede land , swap prisoners, ad nauseum will be right there against the wall with us "hawks" if Islam ever dominates the globe. And thats only if they just line us up and shoot us, and dont torture us to death, defile our corpses and email it to Al Jazeera and the NYT instead.
Osama bin Laden once said that his enemy was every American, whether he be military or a civilian paying taxes. You can in all safety, apply that phrase to any westerner. They will never be happy until the Crescent moon and the Scimitar wave over every capital in the world.
I wish I could figure out why the appeasement crowd thinks that talking and negotiating with Isalmic Facism will ever work.
Just yesterday their leaders were basically calling for Islamic rule from Spain to Iraq. Do you really think they will stop there if they ever did indeed achieve that lofty and quite out of reach goal? You people who say negotiate, concede land , swap prisoners, ad nauseum will be right there against the wall with us "hawks" if Islam ever dominates the globe. And thats only if they just line us up and shoot us, and dont torture us to death, defile our corpses and email it to Al Jazeera and the NYT instead.
Osama bin Laden once said that his enemy was every American, whether he be military or a civilian paying taxes. You can in all safety, apply that phrase to any westerner. They will never be happy until the Crescent moon and the Scimitar wave over every capital in the world.
Executive Member
Posts: 9,534
July 28th, 2006, 03:24 PM
thomaska
It seems to me that the U.S. has been making enemies of Muslims for some time now. Do we remember who overthrew a democratically elected government in Iran and installed the Shah? Didn't the U.S, also help to install Saddam Hussein in the first place? It will be a long time before Iranians forget the Shah. The U.S. has supported far too many despots around the world since WW2 to blame it all on the Muslims. I get the feeling that most Americans suspect Chavez of being a "closet" Muslim as well. :P
thomaska
It seems to me that the U.S. has been making enemies of Muslims for some time now. Do we remember who overthrew a democratically elected government in Iran and installed the Shah? Didn't the U.S, also help to install Saddam Hussein in the first place? It will be a long time before Iranians forget the Shah. The U.S. has supported far too many despots around the world since WW2 to blame it all on the Muslims. I get the feeling that most Americans suspect Chavez of being a "closet" Muslim as well. :P
Senate Member
Posts: 5,588
Location: Saint John, N.B.
Location: Saint John, N.B.
July 28th, 2006, 03:47 PM
We should not forget what an absolute monster this guy was.
Quoting
The article, which I read a LONG time ago, added up the casualties of his wars, the 100,000 or so Shia killed in the Basra region after an uprising there, the chemical attacks on Kurdish villages of which one killed 880, and there were at least 30 attacks, and various others murdered for political or personal reasons. By far the largest number were war casualties, and it could be argued Saddam was not completely at fault for that......but. Colpy
I can't find reliable proof that Saddam killed even twenty people per day. It is beginning to look very much like there were some days when the bastard didn't kill anyone.
Meanwhile, if we add up the million deaths(mainly children) caused by the destruction of infrastructure and the brutal sanctions, the bombing during the latest invasion, plus the deaths in the ongoing civil war, I think we've probably got old Saddam beat.
I can't find reliable proof that Saddam killed even twenty people per day. It is beginning to look very much like there were some days when the bastard didn't kill anyone.
Meanwhile, if we add up the million deaths(mainly children) caused by the destruction of infrastructure and the brutal sanctions, the bombing during the latest invasion, plus the deaths in the ongoing civil war, I think we've probably got old Saddam beat.
We should not forget what an absolute monster this guy was.
Electoral Member
Posts: 344
July 28th, 2006, 04:05 PM
Funny I don't remember voting in anyway for the International Criminal Court Judges.
I don't remember agreeing to any constitution put forth by the governing body of this orginization.
I don't remember directly voting for anyone in the U.N. either.
No nation has any real obligation to follow the GUIDE LINES put fourth by the U.N. The U.N. is simply a forum for nations to discuss and find possible common ground on various issues.
If the U.N. was to have any real power than I had better get to vote.
MUCH like the U.S. gives a vote to each citizen on who will occupie and lead the Federal Gov.
Gotta love socialists, always willing to give there rights away blindly.
When a right leaning person gives his rights away, it is with FULL awareness and good reason.
Quoting
And those are? China, USa and Israel.
What exactly gives the International Criminal Court the right to decide what should and shouldn't be law. Quoting
Any nation that won't join the International Criminal Court is both a coward and has something to hide
Any nation that won't join the International Criminal Court is both a coward and has something to hide
And those are? China, USa and Israel.
Funny I don't remember voting in anyway for the International Criminal Court Judges.
I don't remember agreeing to any constitution put forth by the governing body of this orginization.
I don't remember directly voting for anyone in the U.N. either.
No nation has any real obligation to follow the GUIDE LINES put fourth by the U.N. The U.N. is simply a forum for nations to discuss and find possible common ground on various issues.
If the U.N. was to have any real power than I had better get to vote.
MUCH like the U.S. gives a vote to each citizen on who will occupie and lead the Federal Gov.
Gotta love socialists, always willing to give there rights away blindly.
When a right leaning person gives his rights away, it is with FULL awareness and good reason.
Council Member
Posts: 1,473
Location: Great Satan
Location: Great Satan
July 28th, 2006, 04:06 PM
As Far as Chavez goes I think this is what most americans think of him, well at least those that think of him at all...
Quoting
Well I was speaking only of the extremists who use Islam as there cover for their megolomaniac fantasies of Muslim planet. Personally, if I thought the Islamic community would police their own and clean up the extreme fundamentalists then I would be all for pulling all ofthe U.S.'s troops back home where they belong. thomaska
It seems to me that the U.S. has been making enemies of Muslims for some time now. Do we remember who overthrew a democratically elected government in Iran and installed the Shah? Didn't the U.S, also help to install Saddam Hussein in the first place? It will be a long time before Iranians forget the Shah. The U.S. has supported far too many despots around the world since WW2 to blame it all on the Muslims. I get the feeling that most Americans suspect Chavez of being a "closet" Muslim as well. :P
It seems to me that the U.S. has been making enemies of Muslims for some time now. Do we remember who overthrew a democratically elected government in Iran and installed the Shah? Didn't the U.S, also help to install Saddam Hussein in the first place? It will be a long time before Iranians forget the Shah. The U.S. has supported far too many despots around the world since WW2 to blame it all on the Muslims. I get the feeling that most Americans suspect Chavez of being a "closet" Muslim as well. :P
As Far as Chavez goes I think this is what most americans think of him, well at least those that think of him at all...
