Follow-Up on US-Canada Merger Discussion

[NorthAmerican]

Hi All,

This is my first new thread posting, just signed up today. Anyway, I'm and American and read an article by Diane Francis in the American Interest this morning. Anyway, I read the article and then did some follow-up reading, which is how I found the a thread on this site regarding her "merger" concept. Based on what I saw from your comment, it is not a popular idea. Nonetheless, I thought I'd share with you the follow-up so you can see what she's written on the topic since then.

Here's her piece in the American Interest. BTW, if you want to follow American politics/foreign relations/energy/defense policy, I would highly recommend the American Interest's blog. Multiple daily posts and a toned down, academic and honest discussions of issues:

Canada to the Rescue! - The American Interest

Also, if you want to see where the discussion thread left off:

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/hot-topics/121748-us-canada-should-merge-into.html

 

[Goober]

I for one would be willing to accept the Northern States, most of the eastern seaboard, western areas but only part of California. To far south, they get crazy like ya know.

Of course they would be enter as Territories first, then we go from there.
Does that sound reasonable?

 

[B00Mer]

NOTE: Wasn't me who started this thread SLM!!! :lol:

 

[Goober]

NOTE: Wasn't me who started this thread SLM!!! :lol:

Now have you made up your mind as to citizenship. Ya know the new bank laws are coming into effect where you are required to file a US Tax return?
Well you always were regardless of where you lived outside of the US.

 

[B00Mer]

Now have you made up your mind as to citizenship. Ya know the new bank laws are coming into effect where you are required to file a US Tax return?
Well you always were regardless of where you lived outside of the US.

That is not new Goober..

Canada taxes you on your income earned within Canada if you are a Canadian Resident, if you are living outside Canada file a T-4058 for non-Resident.

The US taxes you on your worldly income, no matter where you live..

I always do 2 income taxes filing each year.

 

[Goober]

That is not new Goober..

Canada taxes you on your income earned within Canada if you are a Canadian Resident, if you are living outside Canada file a T-4058 for non-Resident.

The US taxes you on your worldly income, no matter where you live..

I always do 2 income taxes filing each year.

Many US citizens in Canada did not. Now a number are renouncing citizenship.

 

[B00Mer]

Many US citizens in Canada did not. Now a number are renouncing citizenship.

Have they spent a full winter in Alberta yet??

 

[Goober]

Have they spent a full winter in Alberta yet??

Born in the US as kids of US/Canadian parents, lived in Canada from then on.Never filed taxes returns, never visited, never had a passport from the US.

 

[B00Mer]

Born in the US as kids of US/Canadian parents, lived in Canada from then on.Never filed taxes returns, never visited, never had a passport from the US.

http://americansabroad.org/issues/citizenship/citizenship-requirements-faqs/

.............................

Ted Cruz renounces Canadian citizenship | Fox News

He was a senator, he gets health care for life now in the USA.

 

[Goober]

...and chances are you are not a US Citizen a anymore.. you had to file at 18.

Citizenship Requirements FAQs :: American Citizens Abroad (ACA)

.............................

Ted Cruz renounces Canadian citizenship | Fox News

He was a senator, he gets health care for life now in the USA.

Nope, they are still citizens, never filed, reason they are nervous.

 

[Praxius]

It won't happen.

Americans are too ingrained to their Constitution and Canadians are too ingrained to their Charter.

Americans are ingrained with their right to bear arms while Canadians are more relaxed on recreational drug use.

Americans fear anything towards going back to any sort of Monarchy / British reference towards Government and would more rather join France.

The person who wrote this "Canada to the Rescue" the OP linked is obviously American and has an American Attitude towards the merger concept.

"This used to be a very tough argument to make, because most Americans were unwontedly proud of their political system."
^ And Canadians aren't?

"We should not, of course, underestimate the difficulties and complications. Would Canada’s provinces become states, with two Senators each and proportional inclusion in the House? How would the different health care systems be managed in a union? What about significant alternative legal approaches to various functional issues, not to speak of the U.S. Constitution itself? Obviously, a union would need to be sequenced into being over time, and a group of Wise Men (and Women) would need to be in operation for several years."
^ Why would Canadian Provinces become States? Why don't American States become Provinces? If the US system is so screwed up as this writer states, then why does the writer automatically assume Canada and its provinces would assimilate into the screwed up US system??

^ Why would Canadians adopt the US Constitution and not the other way around?

^ Why should Canadians break away from the Monarchy and the Commonwealth just to please Americans?

^ Or how do you properly manage a completely new system that is some Frankenstein combination of both types of government to make both sides happy?? (Is that even possible?)

Indeed, what about the laws and punishments in each legal system?

Canadians use the same English and Spelling as the UK, Australia and other nations while the US uses their own spelling/English.... who adopts what?

What about the distribution of each country's natural resources, lands and even jobs and careers?

How are Canadians to believe that they won't become second class citizens in what once was their own country and land?

What are the actual benefits for Canada in a merger?

Cheaper Books at the Bookstore??

Besides somewhat similar accents, driving on the same side of the road and WalMart, Canadians have more in common with Australians than they do with Americans, which I know first hand after spending a few years living here in Australia.

How about the US first merges with Mexico and see how that works out before talk of merging with Canada?

The reality is that it's never going to happen.... at least not for another few hundred years.

Americans will in no way give up their way of life, their Constitution and their "Freedom" and Canadians are more proud of their way of life than most Americans seem to realize.

There are simply more benefits and less headaches in keeping both countries separate while helping each other out from time to time, than trying to sort out a nightmare of trying to merge both countries together and avoiding both societies going after each other's throats for having their way of life taken away from them.

To think merging both nations together is a good idea is beyond short sighted.

 

[petros]

Why should Canadians break away from the Monarchy and the Commonwealth just to please Americans

They already have Queen Latifah.

 

[SLM]

Hi All,

This is my first new thread posting, just signed up today. Anyway, I'm and American and read an article by Diane Francis in the American Interest this morning. Anyway, I read the article and then did some follow-up reading, which is how I found the a thread on this site regarding her "merger" concept. Based on what I saw from your comment, it is not a popular idea. Nonetheless, I thought I'd share with you the follow-up so you can see what she's written on the topic since then.

Here's her piece in the American Interest. BTW, if you want to follow American politics/foreign relations/energy/defense policy, I would highly recommend the American Interest's blog. Multiple daily posts and a toned down, academic and honest discussions of issues:

Canada to the Rescue! - The American Interest

Also, if you want to see where the discussion thread left off:

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/hot-topics/121748-us-canada-should-merge-into.html

Yeah, ain't gonna happen.

NOTE: Wasn't me who started this thread SLM!!! :lol:

Okie dokie then.


Still ain't gonna happen.

 

[gopher]

Never gonna happen because as Blackie says, Canada is owned by the Queen and she would never relinquish her colonies. But if it ever happened that would be OK with me as it would mean a large increase in the Democratic party and a brand of politics which would stifle the Republicans imperial foreign policy.

 

[B00Mer]

Canada and the USA are one in the same Canada and the US are practically the same country. Sure, Canada may be more liberal, but the US is on that route too. The US and Canadian militarizes use the same equipment and our economies are linked together. We are also culturally linked, sharing an almost identical culture, excluding Quebec. (Give that back to France)

Canada and USA both has similar culture, language, Food, Costume, European Ethnicity or White race and Christianity.

We are already mutually dependent on one another. We share power grids, have a free trade agreement, speak the same form of English (except the French), have much overlapping with large businesses. I think we see each other as step children of the same family.

 

[Praxius]

Oh and what about Quebec? Some in there want to become their own Nation and break away from Canada. Many would use this merger as an excuse to push this agenda even further. Would they also join this merger or decide to become their own nation as Canada falls apart into this new concept?

What about the many different Native Communities in Canada?
The Canadian Crown and Aboriginal peoples
The Canadian Crown and Aboriginal peoples - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They have treaties with the Monarch.... not with the US.

If they decide they don't want to be a part of this merger, will they break off and be their own communities, remain their own separate "Canadian Breakoff" in order to retain their Monarch Treaties, or will they be forced into the merger by any means necessary?

 

[B00Mer]

What about the many different Native Communities in Canada?
The Canadian Crown and Aboriginal peoples
The Canadian Crown and Aboriginal peoples - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They will just have to take one look at the First Nations in the USA, and open a Casino.

 

[Praxius]

Canada and the USA are one in the same Canada and the US are practically the same country. Sure, Canada may be more liberal, but the US is on that route too. The US and Canadian militarizes use the same equipment

Some of the same equipment, but many weapons and equipment the Canadian Forces use are either exclusive to Canada (Made in Canada) or from other nations.

Canada uses the Leopard 2A6/2A6M tank, not the M1 Abrams
List of modern Canadian Army equipment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You can also see in the above link the various equipment the Canadian Forces use.

and our economies are linked together.

Moreso by proximity than anything else, but Canada's economy is linked with many other nations as well.

We are also culturally linked, sharing an almost identical culture, excluding Quebec. (Give that back to France)

Again, besides accents being somewhat similar in certain areas of both nations, the cultures have more differences than in common and Canada has more in common with Australians than with Americans.

Canada and USA both has similar culture, language, Food, Costume, European Ethnicity or White race and Christianity.

Canada has similar language with the UK, Australia, New Zealand, etc.

Food is just as similar with the US as it is with the above mentioned nations.

European Ethnicity or White Race and Christianity isn't a Canadian/US Exclusive trait.

We are already mutually dependent on one another. We share power grids, have a free trade agreement, speak the same form of English (except the French), have much overlapping with large businesses. I think we see each other as step children of the same family.

We don't speak the same form of English.

Color / Colour as an example.

We're more like children from the same parents where the US is the sibling who rebelled from mommy and daddy in order to be different.... and then became more different from the rest of its brothers and sisters......

.... Now the US is knocking on the door and saying, "Hey, can I crash here? Nice place, thanks, but I'm gonna start redecorating the place and tell you how to live in your own home now. You're still talking to mom and dad? Pssh.... Why don't you grow up and be more independent like me? You going to eat that pizza in the fridge? I'm taking a beer too."

 

[NorthAmerican]

Yeah, ain't gonna happen.



Okie dokie then.


Still ain't gonna happen.

@SLM, I never meant to offent, I just thought I'd post a piece relevant to a previous discussion from this forum. I know it's extremely unlikely in the foreseeable future, actually if you look at the American responses to the link I posted, they are fairly reflective of the ones you see here - which I suppose could be seen as support for both sides of the debate. I would note that the author of the article makes some arguments that are actually difficult to deny, whatever you view might be - whether that means merger or simple economic engagement is a separate issue.

@Praxius, I won't go through line by line on your list of questions - the author of the piece I listed actually does bring up most of these issues - for example she suggests a parliamentary system for the US and a commonwealth-ship for Quebec. I'm just the messenger, so read the article for yourself, I'm not going to recapture the entire article for you here. She also attended the Woodrow Wilson Center, hosted by the Canada Institute. I'd suggest you watch it yourself if you want to argue against her ideas - the concept of Mexico being a part of any union is also brought up. For the record, she is American by birth and has duel citizenship with Canadian children.

"Merger of the Century: Why Canada and America Should Become One Country," A Conversation with Diane Francis | Wilson Center

As for my views... I personally don't see it happening anytime in my lifetime (early thirties now). However, my view of Canadian's who I continually find to be great people - is that they are similar to the British - where I've lived off and on for a number of years. That view is that they too often find way to differentiate themselves from Americans, not because those differences are substantial, but because they recognize that on a global scale we are extremely alike, not different. Also, I have to admit that I find it difficult to argue against some of her points. The world is changing and who knows what tomorrow will bring. Russia and China are two big geopolitical risks and the consolidating of states' trade and power seems to be on the rise - so I also wonder what how much of this whole debate will be within our control and how much of it will be pushed upon all of us...

 

[darkbeaver]

Have they spent a full winter in Alberta yet??

Be quite fool we must repopulate the western deserts. Emphsize the wonderful subtropical climate.