Good argument for gun control

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
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The 2nd Amendment was drafted at a time when the US lacked a standing army and needed a ready militia for times of crisis. It was never intended as a means for Americans to carry out what is in effect an ongoing civil war, with thousands of deaths a year. The gun lobby hides behind the 2nd Amendment and the NRA and makes a literal killing from selling high capacity, affordable and accurate weapons who's only real purpose is to kill other Americans.

One Nation Under The Gun: Thousands Of Gun Deaths Since Newtown

Devin had become the day care’s comforter-in-chief, an expert hand-holder and sharer. When a girl with cerebral palsy had trouble playing tag, he’d run a little slower so she could tag him. When his best friend Aaron got sad about his parents' divorce, Devin was there to counsel him about the extra presents he would soon get on Christmas. He assured Aaron he’d be okay. Devin had gone through it too.

“Devin was extremely anti-bullying,” said Amy Berger, 38, whose son was close to Devin at the day care. “If he saw anyone being bullied, he would be their friend instantly -- in school, day care, it didn’t matter. No one can pick on anyone. He wouldn’t allow it.” In a card left at the church, a classmate wrote of Devin: “He played with me when I was lonely.”

Just before 8:30 a.m., Devin walked across to Oakdale Elementary with Aaron and Aaron’s little sister Emily. Emily had difficulty walking. Devin held her hand.

If you think Devin and the thousands of Americans who die every year aren't worth anything then keep supporting the fiction that the 2nd Amendment gives Americans freedom. They live in constant fear of each other and a few corporations get rich.

Also most of the guns used in the ongoing violence in Mexico come from the US.

Mexico Drug War: 70 Percent Of Guns Seized Originate In U.S.

MEXICO CITY -- About 70 percent of the guns seized in Mexico and submitted to a U.S. gun-tracing program came from the United States, according to a report released by three U.S. senators Monday.

Of the 29,284 firearms recovered by authorities in Mexico in 2009 and 2010, 20,504 came from the United States, according to figures provided to the senators by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
 

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
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Northern Ontario,

JamesBondo

House Member
Mar 3, 2012
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imo, blaming all law abiding gun owners for the murders of armed criminals is as asinine as blaming all drivers for the deaths of drunk drivers.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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The 2nd Amendment was drafted at a time when the US lacked a standing army and needed a ready militia for times of crisis. It was never intended as a means for Americans to carry out what is in effect an ongoing civil war, with thousands of deaths a year. The gun lobby hides behind the 2nd Amendment and the NRA and makes a literal killing from selling high capacity, affordable and accurate weapons who's only real purpose is to kill other Americans.

One Nation Under The Gun: Thousands Of Gun Deaths Since Newtown



If you think Devin and the thousands of Americans who die every year aren't worth anything then keep supporting the fiction that the 2nd Amendment gives Americans freedom. They live in constant fear of each other and a few corporations get rich.

Also most of the guns used in the ongoing violence in Mexico come from the US.

Mexico Drug War: 70 Percent Of Guns Seized Originate In U.S.

This is absolutely full of half truths, untruths, and misconceptions.

Where to start; oh yeah, the Second Amendment. While what you say is true, every male US citizen age 17 is in the militia. That's right, today. Google "US CODE MILITIA" The US Code is federal law. The people are the militia, and the militia is the people. As well, the original intent was not only for defense of the nation, but also defense of self, and defense AGAINST the nation.......that is why it is "....the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms", NOT the right of the state to raise militias. It is why it appears in the Bill of Rights, a guarantor of individual rights, not collective rights.

Okay, having cleared THAT up....let's jump to the defense of the NRA. The NRA is NOT a gun seller. Nor is it controlled by arms companies. LESS than 4% of the NRA's annual budget comes from direct corporate donations. The NRA is a CIVIL RIGHTS group, the tool of it's almost 5 million members. It does what its membership wants: defends, without compromise, the rights of the people of the United States as laid out in the second amendment.

Now....on to Mexican guns. There is absolutely no evidence that "most of the guns used in the ongoing violence in Mexico come from the US" The fact is the Mexican gov't ONLY sends the guns it suspects are American to BATF for tracking. There are plenty of sources for AK 47s (the cartel's weapon of choice) etc in South America and elsewhere.

Now. Check this out.

FBI — Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Notice that you are TWICE as apt to be beaten to death with no weapon involved than you are to be murdered with a rifle. Rifles of ALL types amount to 1 in 25 of all gun murders, and only a fraction of THAT small number would be rifles of military caliber. Kinda makes the focus on AR 15s (the most popular rifle in the USA, with more than 3 million in circulation) kinda suspect, doesn't it??

And finally:
In 2011, guns were involved in 31,672 deaths in the USA, of which 19,392 were suicides, leaving 12,280 involuntary deaths. That includes accidents, homicide, police shootings, and self-defence. 8,533 were homicides.

Tobacco killed approximately 443,000 people in the USA in 2011. 49,000 of those were involuntary deaths from second hand smoke.

Tobacco is involved in FOUR times as many involuntary deaths than are firearms. That's right, you are four times more likely to die from second hand smoke than you are to be shot to death by accident or design by someone else.

And you are almost 6 times more apt to die from second hand smoke than to be murdered with a firearm.......

So...in the USA:

You are 14 times more apt to die from tobacco than from firearms.


Kinda puts it in perspective, doesn't it??

Even more so when you realize 40% of Americans have access to firearms (no. of households with guns) but only 20% smoke.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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so, in other words, the argument that "guns" are needed for protection is specious at best.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
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gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
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There was far more deaths by violence in Burundi and Rwanda where the deaths were done by machetes. It's not the guns - it's the anger and predisposition to violence due to lack of preventive and continuous health care as well as other issues.
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
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Toronto
Adding amendments is America’s way of wiggling out of a negotiated contract look at the American Constitution and the Free Trade Agreement.
 

JamesBondo

House Member
Mar 3, 2012
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so, in other words, the argument that "guns" are needed for protection is specious at best.

Response:

Where does it say 'Constitutional Needs'? I thought it said Constitutional Rights.

Alternate Response:

are you calling the recent supreme court rulings about the 2nd amendment and how it relates to self defense and protection...are you call them specious?

The 2nd Amendment was drafted at a time when the US lacked a standing army and needed a ready militia for times of crisis.

The military history of the twentieth century shows rather clearly that if resistance are willing to wage a prolonged war, they can be quite successful. Far from proving invincible, in the vast majority of cases in this century in which they have confronted popular insurgencies, modern armies have been unable to suppress the insurgents. This is why the British no longer rule in Israel and Ireland, the French in Indo-China, Algeria, and Madagascar, the Portuguese in Angola, the whites in Rhodesia, or General Somoza, General Battista, or the Shah in Nicaragua, Cuba, and Iran respectively--not to mention the examples of the United States in Vietnam and the Soviet Union in Afghanistan
 

Nuggler

kind and gentle
Feb 27, 2006
11,596
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Backwater, Ontario.
"Hawkins County Sheriff Ronnie Lawson said the woman did the right thing defending herself with her firearm."

The seas will run dry before a Canadian lawman makes a statement like that.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
109,389
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"Hawkins County Sheriff Ronnie Lawson said the woman did the right thing defending herself with her firearm."

The seas will run dry before a Canadian lawman makes a statement like that.
Canadian lawmen have run dry to the point of being bollocks free.
 

The Old Medic

Council Member
May 16, 2010
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Cobalt Kid, you either know NOTHING about the United States, or you certainly do not know the Constitution.

The Supreme Court of the United States of America does NOT agree with the idea that the 2nd Amendment requires a Militia to keep and possess firearms. It very recently held that the 2nd Amendments "Right to Keep and Bear Arms" provision applies to INDIVIDUALS.

AS FAR AS AN AMENDMENT GOES, FORGET ABOUT IT!

It is VERY difficult to get an Amendment to the Constitution passed. The vast majority of proposed Amendments have never made it out of Congress. Of those that have, the majority were never approved by the required number of states.

There is virtually NO chance that such an Amendment would pass EITHER the House of Representatives or the Senate. And, if by some miracle it did, it would not get the approval of 3/4 of the States.
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
21,513
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Minnesota: Gopher State
The gun lobby hides behind the 2nd Amendment and the NRA and makes a literal killing from selling high capacity, affordable and accurate weapons who's only real purpose is to kill other Americans.


The city of Chicago had over 500 murders last year. Almost none with high capacity weapons. Therefore, your argument fails to hold water.
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
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Quite correct. Anyone who is serious about reducing the number of gun homicides in the U.S. will go after handguns, which account for 90% or more of all gun homicides (and which are less likely to receive Second Amendment protection).

Not that I approve of this, mind. Just that the focus on semi-autos and high-cap magazines is much ado about a very small number of murders.
 

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
33,676
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Northern Ontario,
But why go after the real criminals when it is so much easier to make criminals out of law abiding citizens with the stroke of a pen and they are so much more passive?
And for politicians, it looks as if you're doing something and the lemmings believe it............