Winning Ugly! The WSJ's Take On Yesterday's Election

[TeddyBallgame]

- Unlike most of you, I found last night's TV programming absolutely awful, the worst TV watching since, well, four years ago last Sunday.

- Not being as good a Chrstian as Mitt Romney, I find myself unable to pray for President Obama.

- But I do have a faint hope that Obama might stop perpetually campaigning and instead focus at least occasionally on learning to be an actual president and trying to ameliorate the serious economic, fiscal and foreign policy problems faced by the republic.

- They call second marriages the triumph of hope over experience.

- They can call giving Obama a second term, albeit by the slimmest of voting margins, the same thing.

- There has been a lot of talk in the campaign about percentages of Americans as in the one per cent cited by Occupy Wall Street participants, the rich 2% cited by Obama in his envy and class warfare campaign, the 47% cited by Romney who don't pay federal income taxes, and so on.

- But the most important percetages are 24-35-40 which is the most recent survey of Americans who self-identify as liberal (24%), conservative (35%) and moderate (40%).

- By pressuring all candidates including Romney to take more extreme positions on hot button issues like immigration reform, the Tea Party rump of the Republicans protested taxation by throwing Romney into the Boston Harbor because they made it exceedingly difficult for him to win any significant share of the largest 40% bloc which is moderate.

- Ironically, when Gingrich was courting the Tea party vote in the nomination process and sneeringly referred to Romney as a "Massachusetts moderate" he was actually telling the truth and left to his own devices Romney would have run an economically and fiscally conservative but socially moderate administration.

- It is a sad thing for the country that he won't get that chance.

- Anyhow, here's the excellent WSJ editorial:

Review & Outlook: Hope Over Experience - WSJ.com

 

[petros]

Just for you!

 

[Just the Facts]

That's all conjecture. No one will ever know what would have happened if Romney was more moderate. In fact, I thought he was actually quite moderate as it was.

 

[Mowich]

You are dead on about one thing, teddy..........the TP lost the election for Romney.

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

-- Ironically, when Gingrich was courting the Tea party vote in the nomination process and sneeringly referred to Romney as a "Massachusetts moderate" he was actually telling the truth and left to his own devices Romney would have run an economically and fiscally conservative but socially moderate administration.

That was my first thought on the man and I think had he stuck to his positions, which were moderate, he would have had a better shot at winning. He likely would have been my choice for President (even though I can't actually vote). But when he started flip-flopping or evolving to have opposite opinions, I decided at best he would say anything to get elected, at worst he had opinions I could not live with which is why I chose Obama instead. Not exactly because he did a super job, just he was more trustworthy than Romney in my mind.

My wife also had the same opinion shift for simular reasons. Difference is she was able to vote as she is American.

 

[TeddyBallgame]

That was my first thought on the man and I think had he stuck to his positions, which were moderate, he would have had a better shot at winning. He likely would have been my choice for President (even though I can't actually vote). But when he started flip-flopping or evolving to have opposite opinions, I decided at best he would say anything to get elected, at worst he had opinions I could not live with which is why I chose Obama instead. Not exactly because he did a super job, just he was more trustworthy than Romney in my mind.

My wife also had the same opinion shift for simular reasons. Difference is she was able to vote as she is American.

- IRBS ... Trouble was that Mitt would not have been able to win enough TP support to win the GOP nomination had he not adopted a more right wing position on things like immigration reform and no tax increases under any circumstances even a 9 to 1 ratio of spending cuts to tax increases. So the stands necessary to win the nomination were also the stands that made it problematic to win the presidency.

- But if you examine his record in getting elected as governor of the bluest or second bluest after California state in the union and then getting things done with an 87% Democratic legislature and had you seen the convention testimonies by the men and especially the women who served proudly in his cabinet you would know that Mitt Romney was conservative on economic and fiscal issues but definitely a moderate on social issues.

- So Obama is more trustworthy than Romney in the sense that he is far more rigidly deological in his policy preferences whereas Mitt is more pragmatic and more inclined to go for what actually works best which is probably also a function of what even Bill Clinton admitted was a sterling business career. However, if you consider trustworthiness to also involve whether or not the individual has any qualms about lying and covering up and BSing the people to save his political skin, I am prepared to argue strenuously that Romney is the more trustworthy.

That's all conjecture. No one will ever know what would have happened if Romney was more moderate. In fact, I thought he was actually quite moderate as it was.

- JTF ... Of course its conjecture but it is my opinion that enough of the 40% of Americans who self-identify as moderates rather than as liberals or conservatives are significantly disenchanted enough with Obama in relation to his lofty promises and lowly record to have voted for the alternative if only said alternative had come across as suffciently moderate. But since Romney was forced in to claiming to be "severely conservative" and to take the hard line that he would not increase taxes even a dollar for every nine dollars in spending cuts and to fail to adopt Rubio's path to citizenship on immigration, he short changed himself insofar as capturing the moderates' votes is concerned.

- But sure, its all conjecture.

- But I`ll tell you one thing with confidence and sadness. Unless the GOP can end the Tea Party tail wagging the party dog by 2016, the demographics of race, age, sex, etc. will work even more against a GOP presidential candidate who is not seen or presented as being socially moderate and the margin of Democratic victory will be far bigger than it was yesterday. I, for one, don`t want that to happen.

 

[BaalsTears]

It's time for the political regime to die a complete death. The US govt. is the instrument of the left. What needs to be done is to radicalize conservatives so they reject the idea of the regime.

 

[damngrumpy]

Obama doesn't need prayers of the right he won remember? All this nonsense about
praying, when you don't have the ideas and the momentum you have to rely on prayers.
Prayers don't win elections.
The coverage was incredible last night. The media had the breakdown as to who was
voting for what and their predictions were pretty much true. The Democrats knew where
their vote was and how to squeeze more votes out of an area by getting people out to the
polls. The Republicans concentrated on Rural America the conservative heartland.
Trouble is, more folks live in urban areas and they are not so conservative.
Nope the coverage was good the Republicans didn't know where their strength was or just
how strong the Democrats were in the cities. Don't blame the media for a lack of knowledge
they should have known the tide was going out for them. As predicted the results would be
known before midnight eastern time and that is what happened.

 

[Praxius]

You thought it was awful?

There's a shocker.

Obama won by the slimmist of margins? Yup, but considering the amount of voter machines attempting to switch votes to Romney and proven to be doing this.... And being forced to replace many when it was called out, machines that the Romney family had direct financial ties to..... Plus all of the BS many voters had to go through who were profiled as people who would vote Obama, it's not surprising Romney was shocked by the loss with his corrupt actions and also why he didn't bother thinking of a concession speech until the bitter end.

If things were done properly, that margin would have been a lot greater.

Took you long enough to come back into the forums. Here I was thinking you finally left since there was nothing left for you to blab on about since you lost. Or is this your own concession speech?

Sore loser.

 

[damngrumpy]

I have never heard so much ranting against the left and the reason is the right really believed
they were going to win. What were they smoking, or was it tea leaves, or visions from some
mystical cave? Anyone who was watching the last week knew the urban centers were going
to go to Obama. Medicare for the middle class, Seniors in Florida were not going to give an
inch of ground on their coverage and the youth decided to go out and vote on social issues

What was left? The old guys who ruled from behind the veil of wealth, you know the ones who
claim Augusta Golf Course is a private club. Those simpler time folks the ones who still believe
in Kansas, the dog and Dorothy. The mountain men in Idaho and Montana, and the believers
in the Midwest who yes believed in the power of prayer.
Yes on the surface it was close, but in fact it was not the population centers didn't send the masses
to vote like LA and NY and so on. Had they all come out, Romney would have drown in a sea of
ballots. The reason they didn't feel the urge to vote? They knew Romney was going to lose because
the image they put forward is not something the majority would ever vote for.

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

- IRBS ... Trouble was that Mitt would not have been able to win enough TP support to win the GOP nomination had he not adopted a more right wing position on things like immigration reform and no tax increases under any circumstances even a 9 to 1 ratio of spending cuts to tax increases. So the stands necessary to win the nomination were also the stands that made it problematic to win the presidency.

A classic catch-22. That is something that the Republican Party needs to sole search about if they wish to hold the White House again.

- But if you examine his record in getting elected as governor of the bluest or second bluest after California state in the union and then getting things done with an 87% Democratic legislature and had you seen the convention testimonies by the men and especially the women who served proudly in his cabinet you would know that Mitt Romney was conservative on economic and fiscal issues but definitely a moderate on social issues.

As I said, his record in Mass was an impressive one (to me). Had he stuck to it, I think things would have been different. But you were correct in your assesment of his chances winning the nomination.

- So Obama is more trustworthy than Romney in the sense that he is far more rigidly deological in his policy preferences whereas Mitt is more pragmatic and more inclined to go for what actually works best which is probably also a function of what even Bill Clinton admitted was a sterling business career. However, if you consider trustworthiness to also involve whether or not the individual has any qualms about lying and covering up and BSing the people to save his political skin, I am prepared to argue strenuously that Romney is the more trustworthy.

Trustworthiness may have been the wrong word. I meant my ability to trust the canidate to do what they have campained to do and not change his mind once elected. I have more confidence in Obama than Romney on this issue not that I think any politicion is trustworthy.

 

[JLM]

- Unlike most of you, I found last night's TV programming absolutely awful, the worst TV watching since, well, four years ago last Sunday.




Review & Outlook: Hope Over Experience - WSJ.com

There you are Teddy, I've been looking for you. Actually I followed the election on line on C.N.N. and found most of it pretty good (there were a couple of scary moments when Ohio and Florida got pretty close to the line and it took awhile for Virginny to get up to speed, but all in all it was very good. I did watch the T.V. (tuned to C.N.N.) where there was a couple of excellent pieces of footage. Romney's explanation speech brought me a ton of joy and Obama's victory speech was second to none- just class as in first class all the way.

 

[Highball]

I pointedly avoided last nights Liberal-Socialist gabfest and downloaded two movies to view. Both has more redeeming quality than the Red Pravda edition on TV.I'll bet this morning's festivity at all the major media offices included not only a pledge of allegiance to the Hammer and Sickle but a reciting of some of Lenin's finest works. All led by Andrea Mitchell and a few White House staffers.

 

[JLM]

"- They can call giving Obama a second term, albeit by the slimmest of voting margins,"

??????????????????? Yeah right, by about 126 electoral votes and probably 5 or so million popular vote.................Obama cleaned his clock. Well, Teddy you got 4 years to practice picking winners.

 

[wulfie68]

OK, as an Albertan, I can empathize with American Republicans, in losing a federal election: for most of my life in Canada, all we could do was vote and hope the Liberal Party of Canada wouldn't screw up the country and screw us (Western Canadians and Albertans in particular) over too much. It sucks to lose and be reduced to hopes and prayers for those of you that bother.

That being said, the world isn't over.

Canada survived all the years of Trudeau (arguably the worst leader in the nation's history). It survived the screw ups by Mulroney, Chretien and Martin after him. One could argue it survived in spite of them.

The United States survived 8 years of George W. Chimp and Darth Cheney. It will survive 4 more years of Obama. If you really believe that the government your peers have elected is that away from your values, you need to re-examine those values. At the core, both Republicans and Democrats are in favour of a democratically elected government and a capitalist economy to exist in the country to achieve the goals of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". There are significant differences in how they see the roles of various arms of the government but at the end, those values are the same. If you still feel the same way after re-examining those values, then maybe you need to think about moving to another country or work towards legally separating your region.

 

[TeddyBallgame]

"- They can call giving Obama a second term, albeit by the slimmest of voting margins,"

??????????????????? Yeah right, by about 126 electoral votes and probably 5 or so million popular vote.................Obama cleaned his clock. Well, Teddy you got 4 years to practice picking winners.

- JLM ... As always you are clueless about the US political system and just trying to BS your way through which is not a problem when you chat with your usual circle jerk of Obama can do no wrong lefties but is a problem with informed individuals like myself.

- Obama didn't win by 5 million or so votes but by 2 million or so votes, 50% to 48%, which is just 1/3 of his 6% margin last time out and a close call as these things go. Only an idiot would say that a 2% margin of victory is cleaning the opponent's clock.

- BTW ... The US stock market celebrated the victory of your hero today with the Dow dropping 312 points, the largest one day decline of the entire year. Its a good thing you don't have any US stocks and presumably have a guaranteed, fully indexed, defined benefits public service pension plan subsidized by me and others or you'd be more concerned with what happens to the markets when an amateur lefty gets re-elected.

 

[tay]

 

[JLM]

- JLM ... As always you are clueless about the US political system and just trying to BS your way through which is not a problem when you chat with your usual circle jerk of Obama can do no wrong lefties but is a problem with informed individuals like myself.

- Obama didn't win by 5 million or so votes but by 2 million or so votes, 50% to 48%, which is just 1/3 of his 6% margin last time out and a close call as these things go. Only an idiot would say that a 2% margin of victory is cleaning the opponent's clock.

- BTW ... The US stock market celebrated the victory of your hero today with the Dow dropping 312 points, the largest one day decline of the entire year. Its a good thing you don't have any US stocks and presumably have a guaranteed, fully indexed, defined benefits public service pension plan subsidized by me and others or you'd be more concerned with what happens to the markets when an amateur lefty gets re-elected.

What am I clueless about Teddy? The gap is presently closer to 3 million and growing as only about 85% of the votes have been counted but regardless it's electoral votes that count, so the real margin of victory is closer to 62%, which is about as close to clock cleaning as one can get. Your knowledge of stock markets isn't much better than your political expertise. What we experienced today is a correction (if you've been following at all) they've been climbing for 3 months. Actually the Hang seng took a leap. Watch tomorrows markets. You are right I don't have stocks but a few mutual funds which are directly connected to the market. Smart peoplle buy on days like today. Comparing yesterday's election with the one of four years ago is nothing short of folly, as Republicans four years ago were suffering from a slump in popularity and it was more of a protest vote. When you want to learn more about politics Teddy just give me shout. Score so far Me 1, Teddy 0. :lol:

 

[Locutus]

Michael Moore “Thanks” Mother Nature For Sending Hurricane Sandy To Help Obama And Kill 110 People…





Not pretty.

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

Michael Moore “Thanks” Mother Nature For Sending Hurricane Sandy To Help Obama And Kill 110 People…





Not pretty.

Michael Moore has always and will always be an a-s-s-h-o-l-e. His party affiliation is more an embarrassment to the party he backs than anything else.