Clinton could have done something.

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States
Bill Clinton was warned about this collapse and did nothing.

"Born and the OTC Derivatives Market:
Brooksley E. Born is an American attorney and former public official who, from August 26, 1996, to June 1, 1999, was chairperson of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC), the federal agency which oversees the futures and commodity options markets. During her tenure on the CFTC, Born lobbied Congress and the President to give the CFTC oversight of off-exchange markets for derivatives in addition to its role with respect to exchange-traded derivatives,[3] but her warnings were opposed by other regulators.[4]

Born was appointed to the CFTC on April 15, 1994 by President Bill Clinton. Due to litigation against Bankers Trust Company by Procter and Gamble and other corporate clients, Born and her team at the CFTC sought comments on the regulation of derivatives,[3] a first step in the process of writing comprehensive regulations. Born was particularly concerned about swaps, financial instruments that are traded over the counter between banks, insurance companies or other funds or companies, and thus have no transparency except to the two counterparties and the counterparties' regulators, if any. CFTC regulation was strenuously opposed by Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan, and by Treasury Secretaries Robert Rubin and Lawrence Summers.[4] On May 7, 1998, former SEC Chairman Arthur Levitt joined Rubin and Greenspan in objecting to the issuance of the CFTC’s concept release. Their response dismissed Born's analysis and focused on the hypothetical possibility that CFTC regulation of swaps and other OTC derivative instruments could create a "legal uncertainty" regarding such financial instruments, hypothetically reducing the value of the instruments. They argued that the imposition of regulatory costs would "stifle financial innovation" and encourage financial capital to transfer its transactions offshore.[8] The disagreement between Born and the Executive Office's top economic policy advisors has been described not only as a classic Washington turf war,[6] but also a war of ideologies,[9] insofar as it is possible to argue that Born's actions were consistent with Keynesian and neoclassical economics while Greenspan, Rubin, Levitt, and Summers consistently espoused Austrian, neoliberal, and neoconservative laissez faire policies.
The market continued to grow unregulated nearly throughout both terms of George W. Bush's administration, but began to stumble in the early months of 2007. On September 15, 2008, the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers forced a broad recognition of a financial crisis in both the US and world capital markets, a crisis which has inflicted egregious long-term damage, as these characteristic costs of private financial accumulation are transferred to the detriment of social infrastructure, communities, labor's economic security, social mobility, families and individuals, democratic law, and political pluralism in the US, Europe, Africa, and East Asia. As Lehman Brothers' failure temporarily reduced financial capital's confidence, corporate newspapers began reporting on some of the failure's possible causes, including the ongoing and continual reassurances of Greenspan, Rubin, Summers, and Levitt, who had long insisted that the capital markets could be trusted to regulate themselves, and the Presidential administrations' continued rejection of Born's (and thus the CFTC's) urgent warnings for the necessity of regulation to stave off just such a collapse.[4][10]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooksley_Born
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
Clinton deserves blame for this and for free trade (or is it called exporting jobs?). Just like Reagan deserves blame for sending America on a debt spending spree and ShrubII for starting needless expensive wars. Dems and Reps deserve blame all over.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
117,210
14,249
113
Low Earth Orbit

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
Clinton deserves blame for this and for free trade (or is it called exporting jobs?). Just like Reagan deserves blame for sending America on a debt spending spree and ShrubII for starting needless expensive wars. Dems and Reps deserve blame all over.

Well, that's right and I'd venture to say that most of economic mess is the fault of the banks, mortgage companies and Wall St. In short corruption right through the financial sector thanks to the likes of Bernie Madoff, Ken Lay etc.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
117,210
14,249
113
Low Earth Orbit
It's the revolving door of Congress and Wall Street combined. The Wallys send in a man to do what they want, he doesn't bother to be re-elected after they get what they want and they fund the snot out their next shill to put in office and deregulate.

All you have to do is dig a little and the obvious scam of it all will scream at you. LOUDLY!
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
21,513
66
48
Minnesota: Gopher State
Clinton deserves blame for this and for free trade (or is it called exporting jobs?). Just like Reagan deserves blame for sending America on a debt spending spree and ShrubII for starting needless expensive wars. Dems and Reps deserve blame all over.

Clinton also created 25 million jobs and a surplus that Bush destroyed. So why is Clinton's success ignored?
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
It's the revolving door of Congress and Wall Street combined. The Wallys send in a man to do what they want, he doesn't bother to be re-elected after they get what they want and they fund the snot out their next shill to put in office and deregulate.

All you have to do is dig a little and the obvious scam of it all will scream at you. LOUDLY!
Not really a scam, but the way "democracy" is you have about 2 years to get the results that should take 10. Everyone has to implement an artificial quick fix to get relected. The result is that no long term solution is ever in place.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
539
113
Regina, SK
Clinton also created 25 million jobs and a surplus that Bush destroyed. So why is Clinton's success ignored?
I don't think it's being ignored, but the things I've seen strongly suggest that the roots of the sub-prime mortgage crisis lie with the Clinton administration. It took the view that every American should be able to own a house and instituted rules that made it almost impossible for any lending institution to turn down any mortgage application. Then all the junk mortgages that resulted got bundled up as investment vehicles in multi-layered, very complex arrangements that effectively hid what was really going on, then the bond rating agencies ranked them basically from best junk to worst junk and called the former AAA relative to all the others, then the investment bankers snapped them up, then people started defaulting, and the whole mess fell apart when the cash flow provided by people making their mortgage payments dried up.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
539
113
Regina, SK
No, that's not why people weren't able to pay their mortgages. People got mortgages who should never have qualified for one, but they got a sub-prime rate for 5 years, then when that provision ended and the rates went back up to market rates they couldn't make the payments, and defaulted.
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
21,513
66
48
Minnesota: Gopher State
Had Bush created another 25 million jobs and expanded the middle class as much as Clinton did there would not have been a problem or it would have been significantly less.

But have it your way - BLAME CLINTON!!!
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
No, that's not why people weren't able to pay their mortgages. People got mortgages who should never have qualified for one, but they got a sub-prime rate for 5 years, then when that provision ended and the rates went back up to market rates they couldn't make the payments, and defaulted.

Criminal to say the least! But when you get a mortgage a lawyer or Notary is normally involved, so those bastards obviously didn't do their homework or worse were part of the whole scam.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
I don't see how any lawyer or notary would have a clue how the securities worked. Their role is primarily legal title, rights, etc.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
117,210
14,249
113
Low Earth Orbit
Not really a scam, but the way "democracy" is you have about 2 years to get the results that should take 10. Everyone has to implement an artificial quick fix to get reelected. The result is that no long term solution is ever in place.
You missed my point. What do you think they were "getting done' by having Wall St execs elected who then in turn deregulated and went right back to Wall St to cash in on the latest scam they just created for themselves in Congress. That is NOT democracy. It is a is pure unadulterated Plutocracy.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
You missed my point. What do you think they were "getting done' by having Wall St execs elected who then in turn deregulated and went right back to Wall St to cash in on the latest scam they just created for themselves in Congress. That is NOT democracy. It is a is pure unadulterated Plutocracy.
Hell, they know how to make themselves money. Probably in any environment. There will never be a shortage of people trying to make money, but the issue is we have problems that need long term solutions. Long term solutions can't be created in a toxic political environment where short term results are the only results that matter at the polls.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
117,210
14,249
113
Low Earth Orbit
One other note. For every successful drug dealer there is a banker just as crooked laundering the money.

Hell, they know how to make themselves money. Probably in any environment. There will never be a shortage of people trying to make money, but the issue is we have problems that need long term solutions. Long term solutions can't be created in a toxic political environment where short term results are the only results that matter at the polls.
Then the solution would be to remove the revolving door and install a tall fence with a guard shack from which alll Wall Street types are shot from before they get a chance to get into power to change the rules to their benefit.

Congressional Criminals.....

U.S Lawmakers at work

* 29 members of Congress have been accused of spousal abuse.

* 7 have been arrested for fraud.


* 19 have been accused of writing bad checks.


* 117 have bankrupted at least two businesses.


* 3 have been arrested for assault.


* 71 have credit reports so bad they can't qualify for a
credit card.


* 14 have been arrested on drug-related charges.


* 8 have been arrested for shoplifting.


* 21 are current defendants in lawsuits.


* And in 1998 alone, 84 were stopped for drunk driving, but released after they claimed Congressional immunity.