Christian Inclusiveness

[Spade]

An acquaintance raised a red-tailed hawk from an abandonned fledgeling. In the summer, he would take it with him in a cage in the back of his hatchback when he went fishing at a nearby trout pond. There, he would let the bird fly while he fished. When the bird became bored, the hawk would land on the car, hop down, and peck at the man's boot to get his attention. Then, like a small child, the hawk would run as the man chased him, all the while screaming with delight. Intelligent beyond description.

 

[gopher]

We've had several local news channel reports on red tail hawks and how intelligent they are. Small wonder why the U of Minn and other charitable groups are so enthused about promoting public concerns about them.

 

[Motar]

"Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. Then Jesus came to them and said, 'All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." (Matthew 28:16-20 NIV)

On invitation (Matthew 28:10), all of Jesus' core students met with him for commissioning. Although all eleven disciples showed up, some self-excluded through unbelief.

Nonetheless, Jesus instructed them to inclusively engage all nations through their witness. Some of the witnesses self-excluded through relational/missional neglect.

 

[Motar]

An acquaintance raised a red-tailed hawk from an abandonned fledgeling. In the summer, he would take it with him in a cage in the back of his hatchback when he went fishing at a nearby trout pond. There, he would let the bird fly while he fished. When the bird became bored, the hawk would land on the car, hop down, and peck at the man's boot to get his attention. Then, like a small child, the hawk would run as the man chased him, all the while screaming with delight. Intelligent beyond description.

Buteo jamaicensis - the red-tailed hawk is a native species here in the Pacific Northwest, Brother. You value intelligence in this creature.

 

[Cliffy]

Buteo jamaicensis - the red-tailed hawk is a native species here in the Pacific Northwest, Brother. You value intelligence in this creature.

Is that last sentence a question or a statement?

Red Tail is an important friend in my cosmology. It is always a barer of good news.

 

[darkbeaver]

Is that last sentence a question or a statement?

Red Tail is an important friend in my cosmology. It is always a barer of good news.

Google REDTAIL NOVA SCOTIA, A FRIEND OF MINE. COBEQUID MOUNTAINS

 

[Motar]

Is it true that Jesus was inclusive? If so, in what sense was Jesus inclusive? Were there limits to Jesus’ inclusiveness?

As I think about Christian inclusiveness, this poem continually comes to mind:

Outwitted

He drew a circle that shut me out -
Heretic, rebel, a thing to flout.
But Love and I had the wit to win:
We drew a circle took him in!

Edwin Markham (1852-1940)

 

[Motar]

As I think about Christian inclusiveness, this poem continually comes to mind:

Outwitted

He drew a circle that shut me out -
Heretic, rebel, a thing to flout.
But Love and I had the wit to win:
We drew a circle took him in!

Edwin Markham (1852-1940)

*We drew a circle that took him in!

 

[darkbeaver]

William Wordsworth wrote:

Our birth is but a sleep and a forgetting;
The soul that rises with us, our life’s Star,
Hath had elsewhere its setting
And cometh from afar:
Not in entire forgetfulness,
And not in utter nakedness,
But trailing clouds of glory do we come
From God, who is our home:
Heaven lies about us in our infancy

 

[Motar]

William Wordsworth wrote:

Our birth is but a sleep and a forgetting;
The soul that rises with us, our life’s Star,
Hath had elsewhere its setting
And cometh from afar:
Not in entire forgetfulness,
And not in utter nakedness,
But trailing clouds of glory do we come
From God, who is our home:
Heaven lies about us in our infancy

What in particular in this segment of verse speaks to you, DB?

 

[darkbeaver]

Homesickness for the garden, and the end of my schooling in the valley of the shadow of death.

 

[Motar]

Homesickness for the garden, and the end of my schooling in the valley of the shadow of death.

I share your ennui, DB.

I've been mulling over another perspective today. The main imagery has to do with aromatherapy and the faithful relationship between mechanical expression and release of essence (truth). Poetic expression for me is often associated with intense circumstances and emotion.

I am reminded of a sign I once saw in a greenhouse that read: "If you want these plants to bloom, dehydrate them."

 

[darkbeaver]

I appreciate your perspective.

 

[gopher]

Summer Rains
(An Ode to Gopher)

And when your burrows are in flood,
I'll prey for you, my Gopher bud!

We've had so much rain around here (especially in the evening) that I have not been able to go out and watch softball. I realize that rain keeps Lake Wobegone green but I wish the rain would come late at night when we are all comfy in our burrows!

 

[Motar]

Is it true that Jesus was inclusive? If so, in what sense was Jesus inclusive? Were there limits to Jesus’ inclusiveness?

"Teacher,' said John, 'we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.' 'Do not stop him,' Jesus said. 'For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us." (Mark 9:38-40 NIV)

There's that inclusive "whoever" word again.

"So the disciples had tried to stop another man, who was unknown to them, from carrying the message of Jesus to others. In His quick retort to them, Jesus effectively told the disciples that they themselves would haveno private ownership of the Gospel, nor exclusive rights to its message, but - rather - that it would be open and accessible to all.This one Scripture strongly challenges the hierarchical approach towards church government ...

It is interesting indeed that just reading that comment of Jesus, one would now expect to see many Christian organisations - and that is exactly what we now find, of course. But again, the point is made that Jesus wasinclusive in general approach. The Pharisees sought to quickly persecute and exclude any religious rivals, but this was not to be the approach of true Christianity; as long as the genuine Gospel of Jesus Christ was - and is - being preached, then rejoice!" The Gospel of Jesus Christ; An Inclusive Message

Denomination is of no consequence to the members of the body of Christ.

 

[Motar]

Red Tail is an important friend in my cosmology. It is always a barer of good news.

Unless you're on the menu, Cliffy:

Most red-tailed hawks prey on small mammals such as mice, voles, shrews, voles, squirrels, chipmunks, rats, rabbits opossums, muskrats, cats, skunks and bats. Other prey include snakes, turtles, frogs, lizards, salamanders, toads, ducks, bobwhites, crows, woodpeckers, starlings, doves, red-winged blackbirds, kingfishers, robins, owls, crawfish, centipedes, spiders, grasshoppers, crickets, beetles, earthworms and fish.

 

[Motar]

Is it true that Jesus was inclusive? If so, in what sense was Jesus inclusive? Were there limits to Jesus’ inclusiveness?

In this encounter, we witness Jesus breaking all of the local, historical exclusive religionist rules:

"Now he had to go through Samaria. So he came to a town in Samaria called Sychar, near the plot of ground Jacob had given to his son Joseph. Jacob’s well was there, and Jesus, tired as he was from the journey, sat down by the well. It was about noon. When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, 'Will you give me a drink?' (His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.) The Samaritan woman said to him. 'You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?' (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.) Jesus answered her, 'If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.' 'Sir,' the woman said, 'you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?' Jesus answered, 'Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life."

There's that inclusive "whoever" word again.

"The woman said to him, 'Sir, give me this water so that I won’t get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water.' He told her, 'Go, call your husband and come back.' 'I have no husband.' she replied. Jesus said to her, 'You are right when you say you have no husband. The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true.' 'Sir,' the woman said, 'I can see that you are a prophet. Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.' 'Woman,' Jesus replied, 'believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.' The woman said, 'I know that Messiah' (called Christ) 'is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.' Then Jesus declared, 'I, the one speaking to you—I am he.' Just then his disciples returned and were surprised to find him talking with a woman. But no one asked, 'What do you want?' or 'Why are you talking with her?" (John 4:4-27 NIV)

Jesus' disciples were experiencing culture shock. In that society, a Jewish holy man did not acknowledge an unaccompanied Samaritan woman of ill repute. Jesus not only acknowledged, but initiated a conversation with this socially marginalized woman in the most public of settings - the village well.

 

[Spade]

If Christians believed in inclusiveness of their Gawd, there'd be no need for Christianity.

 

[Motar]

If Christians believed in inclusiveness of their Gawd, there'd be no need for Christianity.

Expound, Dear Brother : )

 

[darkbeaver]

In this encounter, we witness Jesus breaking all of the local, historical exclusive religionist rules:

"Now he had to go through Samaria. So he came to a town in Samaria called Sychar, near the plot of ground Jacob had given to his son Joseph. Jacob’s well was there, and Jesus, tired as he was from the journey, sat down by the well. It was about noon. When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, 'Will you give me a drink?' (His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.) The Samaritan woman said to him. 'You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?' (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.) Jesus answered her, 'If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.' 'Sir,' the woman said, 'you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?' Jesus answered, 'Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life."

There's that inclusive "whoever" word again.

"The woman said to him, 'Sir, give me this water so that I won’t get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water.' He told her, 'Go, call your husband and come back.' 'I have no husband.' she replied. Jesus said to her, 'You are right when you say you have no husband. The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true.' 'Sir,' the woman said, 'I can see that you are a prophet. Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.' 'Woman,' Jesus replied, 'believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.' The woman said, 'I know that Messiah' (called Christ) 'is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.' Then Jesus declared, 'I, the one speaking to you—I am he.' Just then his disciples returned and were surprised to find him talking with a woman. But no one asked, 'What do you want?' or 'Why are you talking with her?" (John 4:4-27 NIV)

Jesus' disciples were experiencing culture shock. In that society, a Jewish holy man did not acknowledge an unaccompanied Samaritan woman of ill repute. Jesus not only acknowledged, but initiated a conversation with this socially marginalized woman in the most public of settings - the village well.

This guy Jesus was not a carpenter but a door to door new age activist in a time of upheaval against the Romans the phamplets he handed out were written in India and Eygpt three thousand years earlier. If Jesus did nothing else he did move a lot of commonly known good advice and ancient philosophy, mostly without charge it seems.

This guy was not Christ, he was just a representative. Thousands before him and thousands after him, Christ is a natural process of the mind, an evolutionary goal. You could get with it in Sunday School, nothing is impossible, however unlikely.

Everybody is included, that much is true, in fact you can't get out of it. Unless of course you graduate and are born anew and simple float above the teeming masses and drift on up to the celestial garden. Sunshine for evermore. Excuse me, I have to cram for finals,