#1Oct 16th, 2011
Is the use of the crane, wrecking ball, bulldozer and dymamite always sensible?
#2
Re: Is the use of the crane, wrecking ball, bulldozer and dymamite always sensible?
Oct 16th, 2011
Old buildings or buildings that don't meet code? I'm sure there are businesses out there that salvage material from demos, maybe even the demo companies...
#3
Re: Is the use of the crane, wrecking ball, bulldozer and dymamite always sensible?
Oct 16th, 2011
Here you go Petros.
#4
Re: Is the use of the crane, wrecking ball, bulldozer and dymamite always sensible?
Oct 16th, 2011
Ahhhhh here it is. Want to buy a barn with 12x12 knot free fir timbers?
#5
Re: Is the use of the crane, wrecking ball, bulldozer and dymamite always sensible?
Oct 16th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by JLM
I've gotten to thinking that systematic method of demolition of old buildings by the unemployed who are on welfare/ looking for work would make a lot more sense, in that it would create jobs offset by the value of old salvageable materials, would be one more link in the recycling chain and would help the economy. We hear incessant whining about "exporting jobs" but we never hear anyone mention "blowing up jobs". I'll bet there is lots of good wood perserved with paint and varnish, not to mention metal pipes, ducts, etc.etc.
That's a cool idea. I spent a year as a Plumber a year back, and much of what I
did was replace waterlines in rental houses (usually between tenants) where
someone would break in and steal as much of the copper as they could with a
pair of bolt cutters....so some would already have experience in this field.
The thing that always puzzled me though was this. The time it took to scout out
the places they would rob, and the the actually robbery, the risk involved, etc...&
then fencing the stolen copper....most likely added up to full-time hours. Wouldn't
it have been easier to just go and get a real job? They might lose their Welfare/
Self Employed status, but might feel better at the end of the day, I'd assume.
#6
Re: Is the use of the crane, wrecking ball, bulldozer and dymamite always sensible?
Oct 16th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in Regina
The copper was stolen from a house across the alley from me. My neighbour caught them, the cops actualy showed up. It turns out they scope out places to steal the copper while looking for a place to rent. I have no idea what they pay for scrap but #1 from mined sources is selling for a little over $3 an lb down from $4+ a few months ago. How much could they possibly get in poundage from a rental home?That's a cool idea. I spent a year as a Plumber a year back, and much of what I
did was replace waterlines in rental houses (usually between tenants) where
someone would break in and steal as much of the copper as they could with a
pair of bolt cutters....so some would already have experience in this field.
The thing that always puzzled me though was this. The time it took to scout out
the places they would rob, and the the actually robbery, the risk involved, etc...&
then fencing the stolen copper....most likely added up to full-time hours. Wouldn't
it have been easier to just go and get a real job? They might lose their Welfare/
Self Employed status, but might feel better at the end of the day, I'd assume.
#7
Re: Is the use of the crane, wrecking ball, bulldozer and dymamite always sensible?
Oct 16th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by petros
Ummmmmmmmmm, not today. But you are making the exact point I'm trying to get across. "Waste not, want not".Ahhhhh here it is. Want to buy a barn with 12x12 knot free fir timbers?
#8
Re: Is the use of the crane, wrecking ball, bulldozer and dymamite always sensible?
Oct 16th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by petros
The copper was stolen from a house across the alley from me. My neighbour caught them, the cops actualy showed up. It turns out they scope out places to steal the copper while looking for a place to rent. I have no idea what they pay for scrap but #1 from mined sources is selling for a little over $3 an lb down from $4+ a few months ago. How much could they possibly get in poundage from a rental home?
I think it's a "volume" thing to make any real money. Copper is ripped off out'a houses
all around your place regularly. We'd cut the ends of the pipe off that where crushed
(from the bolt cutters they'd use), solder on a Pex adapter, and run Pex (a plastic
tubing) everywhere that we could. It's the only real defence against copper theft.
By the time someone scouts enough places, and does enough thefts, and fences the
copper.....I still think it might be easier to get a real job....but they'd lose the Welfare
benifits and have to run on someone elses time-table, I guess.
#9
Re: Is the use of the crane, wrecking ball, bulldozer and dymamite always sensible?
Oct 16th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by JLM
Not today huh? How about this winter? I'd like to seed the space next spring.Ummmmmmmmmm, not today. But you are making the exact point I'm trying to get across. "Waste not, want not".
+1
#10Re: Is the use of the crane, wrecking ball, bulldozer and dymamite always sensible?
Oct 16th, 2011
When all your thinking about is your next crack fix, you don't think like a normal intellegent human being.
+1
#11Re: Is the use of the crane, wrecking ball, bulldozer and dymamite always sensible?
Oct 16th, 2011
What does a normal intelligent human being think like?
#12
Re: Is the use of the crane, wrecking ball, bulldozer and dymamite always sensible?
Oct 16th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by petros
From what I can see chances are not a hell of a lot better then either! Not today huh? How about this winter? I'd like to seed the space next spring.
+1
#13Re: Is the use of the crane, wrecking ball, bulldozer and dymamite always sensible?
Oct 16th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolf
Not like a crack addict.What does a normal intelligent human being think like?
Why.....................more like YOU............or ME.............
____________
Roosevelt did similar stuff during the last great depression; New Deal. We could call it the REAL DEAL. Or the UNREAL DEAL.
The light just came on!! We could start on Parliament Hill in Ottawa. Lots of old, useless CRAP to demolish there. And some new useless CRAP.
Grab crowbars, and to the barricades..................
Last edited by Nuggler; Oct 16th, 2011 at 06:01 PM..
#14
Re: Is the use of the crane, wrecking ball, bulldozer and dymamite always sensible?
Oct 16th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by JLM
I pay well and all the wheat you can eat.From what I can see chances are not a hell of a lot better then either!
#15
Re: Is the use of the crane, wrecking ball, bulldozer and dymamite always sensible?
Oct 16th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by petros
Don't you have to move your wheat via the CWB?I pay well and all the wheat you can eat.
#16
Re: Is the use of the crane, wrecking ball, bulldozer and dymamite always sensible?
Oct 16th, 2011
I hear things like this a lot. As an orchardist I hear people saying those on welfare should
be made to pick apples as well. Ah, No Thanks. All I need is people who are on welfare
bruising my apples because they don't want to be there. I have enough problems with some
who pick who are not on welfare bruising fruit. I pay more I provide more opportunity and
still some just don't listen. I don't believe forced labour will make any difference either.
In concept its a good idea in practical terms maybe not. If someone gets hurt on a job site
who pays that becomes the biggest question. And yes regardless, if someone gets hurt
they have a right to compensation of some kind. The only exception would be slave
laborers and I don't think anyone wants to go there (yes I jest) no I am not advocating
we should have slave labourers, we leave that to our most reputable companies who do
business with China, where they don't have to observe the highest in labour standards.
be made to pick apples as well. Ah, No Thanks. All I need is people who are on welfare
bruising my apples because they don't want to be there. I have enough problems with some
who pick who are not on welfare bruising fruit. I pay more I provide more opportunity and
still some just don't listen. I don't believe forced labour will make any difference either.
In concept its a good idea in practical terms maybe not. If someone gets hurt on a job site
who pays that becomes the biggest question. And yes regardless, if someone gets hurt
they have a right to compensation of some kind. The only exception would be slave
laborers and I don't think anyone wants to go there (yes I jest) no I am not advocating
we should have slave labourers, we leave that to our most reputable companies who do
business with China, where they don't have to observe the highest in labour standards.
#17
Re: Is the use of the crane, wrecking ball, bulldozer and dymamite always sensible?
Oct 16th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpy
Who knows you might actually find people who are looking for work and want to work and yes the owner of the building may have to pay W.C.B. premiums- probably lots of students looking for work who would love the job. We're not going to get anywhere if we don't try!I hear things like this a lot. As an orchardist I hear people saying those on welfare should
be made to pick apples as well. Ah, No Thanks. All I need is people who are on welfare
bruising my apples because they don't want to be there. I have enough problems with some
who pick who are not on welfare bruising fruit. I pay more I provide more opportunity and
still some just don't listen. I don't believe forced labour will make any difference either.
In concept its a good idea in practical terms maybe not. If someone gets hurt on a job site
who pays that becomes the biggest question. And yes regardless, if someone gets hurt
they have a right to compensation of some kind. The only exception would be slave
laborers and I don't think anyone wants to go there (yes I jest) no I am not advocating
we should have slave labourers, we leave that to our most reputable companies who do
business with China, where they don't have to observe the highest in labour standards.
+1
#18Re: Is the use of the crane, wrecking ball, bulldozer and dymamite always sensible?
Oct 16th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by Nuggler
For now but because there are foreign companies setting up corporate farms Mr Ritz figures we don't need it.Don't you have to move your wheat via the CWB?
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpy
There are 27 million people in slavery on the planet today. We don't need anymore.I hear things like this a lot. As an orchardist I hear people saying those on welfare should
be made to pick apples as well. Ah, No Thanks. All I need is people who are on welfare
bruising my apples because they don't want to be there. I have enough problems with some
who pick who are not on welfare bruising fruit. I pay more I provide more opportunity and
still some just don't listen. I don't believe forced labour will make any difference either.
In concept its a good idea in practical terms maybe not. If someone gets hurt on a job site
who pays that becomes the biggest question. And yes regardless, if someone gets hurt
they have a right to compensation of some kind. The only exception would be slave
laborers and I don't think anyone wants to go there (yes I jest) no I am not advocating
we should have slave labourers, we leave that to our most reputable companies who do
business with China, where they don't have to observe the highest in labour standards.
#19
Re: Is the use of the crane, wrecking ball, bulldozer and dymamite always sensible?
Oct 16th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by petros
Got a link?There are 27 million people in slavery on the planet today.
+1 / -1
#20Re: Is the use of the crane, wrecking ball, bulldozer and dymamite always sensible?
Oct 16th, 2011
--
#21
Re: Is the use of the crane, wrecking ball, bulldozer and dymamite always sensible?
Oct 16th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolf
Like Ron in Regina.What does a normal intelligent human being think like?
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in Regina
The thing that always puzzled me though was this. The time it took to scout out
the places they would rob, and the the actually robbery, the risk involved, etc...&
then fencing the stolen copper....most likely added up to full-time hours. Wouldn't
it have been easier to just go and get a real job? They might lose their Welfare/
Self Employed status, but might feel better at the end of the day, I'd assume.
+3
#22 Top Rated PostRe: Is the use of the crane, wrecking ball, bulldozer and dymamite always sensible?
Oct 16th, 2011
a crane, bulldozer, wrecking ball and/or explosives would be a hell of alot safer to bring a building down than a bunch of inexperienced yahoo's in a make work project.
#23
Re: Is the use of the crane, wrecking ball, bulldozer and dymamite always sensible?
Oct 16th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by petros
I think that number is quite conservative.For now but because there are foreign companies setting up corporate farms Mr Ritz figures we don't need it.
There are 27 million people in slavery on the planet today. We don't need anymore.
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh
Probably but I wasn't thinking of "inexperienced yahoos"- most people can be trained and follow directions and of course I wasn't thinking of just sending a bunch of yahoos out to an old building with wrecking bar and nail puller without qualified supervision. I can do just as well as you Gerry in thinking up ways that will fail.a crane, bulldozer, wrecking ball and/or explosives would be a hell of alot safer to bring a building down than a bunch of inexperienced yahoo's in a make work project.
#24
Re: Is the use of the crane, wrecking ball, bulldozer and dymamite always sensible?
Oct 16th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by JLM
Yeah it unfortunately probably is a low ball number but is still dissapointing that there are that many.I think that number is quite conservative.
+1
#25Re: Is the use of the crane, wrecking ball, bulldozer and dymamite always sensible?
Oct 16th, 2011
jerry you and I agree on this one. The idea is not to have people working it is punishing them
for being on welfare. The best way to get people off welfare is to make sure they get an
education. If we ensured there was training and educational opportunities within the financial
reach of people it would help. If we made it a requirement that all people who enter the prison
system, had to pass at least grade twelve, we would be taking the first right step.
There are also people out there that could be turned around with the right counselling and in
addition to that, we could put some on welfare and leave them there.
The reason I say that is, there are some people who would be nothing more than a financial
burden on educational resources by even attempting to retrain them it would be cheaper to
just pay them and leave it at that.
The trouble is we use one approach to attempt to solve problems resulting from multiple causes.
Like the prison system, we should determine who is capable of adjusting to society and just
warehousing the rest for a lifetime. Some should get a second chance and others should not
same applies to welfare. Either we put up with some on the dole forever while we retrain the
rest or determine that some should just no longer get a cheque. If you adopt that policy though
watch the crime rate soar.
One answer is not going to work and forcing people to do jobs they are not trained to do is a
policy loaded with unforeseen problems and costs associated with it. If we want people to do these
jobs train them to do them, ensure the safety and value is there. If you do that, you will soon find
you would need people who have knowledge and skills and traditionally that is not the domain of
those on welfare.
for being on welfare. The best way to get people off welfare is to make sure they get an
education. If we ensured there was training and educational opportunities within the financial
reach of people it would help. If we made it a requirement that all people who enter the prison
system, had to pass at least grade twelve, we would be taking the first right step.
There are also people out there that could be turned around with the right counselling and in
addition to that, we could put some on welfare and leave them there.
The reason I say that is, there are some people who would be nothing more than a financial
burden on educational resources by even attempting to retrain them it would be cheaper to
just pay them and leave it at that.
The trouble is we use one approach to attempt to solve problems resulting from multiple causes.
Like the prison system, we should determine who is capable of adjusting to society and just
warehousing the rest for a lifetime. Some should get a second chance and others should not
same applies to welfare. Either we put up with some on the dole forever while we retrain the
rest or determine that some should just no longer get a cheque. If you adopt that policy though
watch the crime rate soar.
One answer is not going to work and forcing people to do jobs they are not trained to do is a
policy loaded with unforeseen problems and costs associated with it. If we want people to do these
jobs train them to do them, ensure the safety and value is there. If you do that, you will soon find
you would need people who have knowledge and skills and traditionally that is not the domain of
those on welfare.
#26
Re: Is the use of the crane, wrecking ball, bulldozer and dymamite always sensible?
Oct 16th, 2011
I hear Montreal had a problem with people stealing manhole covers a year or so ago. You can't just walk into a scrap yard with a bunch of manhole covers so it must have been pretty organized. That means there must be a fair bit of cash to be made.
#27
Re: Is the use of the crane, wrecking ball, bulldozer and dymamite always sensible?
Oct 16th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by Cannuck
You can if they've been processed through a kiln first.I hear Montreal had a problem with people stealing manhole covers a year or so ago. You can't just walk into a scrap yard with a bunch of manhole covers so it must have been pretty organized. That means there must be a fair bit of cash to be made.
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpy
I guess I have to shoulder the blame for the misunderstanding here, as I didn't specify in the O.P. that the jobs would be for willing capable workers who were already trained or would go through a training program.jerry you and I agree on this one. The idea is not to have people working it is punishing them
for being on welfare. The best way to get people off welfare is to make sure they get an
education. If we ensured there was training and educational opportunities within the financial
reach of people it would help. If we made it a requirement that all people who enter the prison
system, had to pass at least grade twelve, we would be taking the first right step.
There are also people out there that could be turned around with the right counselling and in
addition to that, we could put some on welfare and leave them there.
The reason I say that is, there are some people who would be nothing more than a financial
burden on educational resources by even attempting to retrain them it would be cheaper to
just pay them and leave it at that.
The trouble is we use one approach to attempt to solve problems resulting from multiple causes.
Like the prison system, we should determine who is capable of adjusting to society and just
warehousing the rest for a lifetime. Some should get a second chance and others should not
same applies to welfare. Either we put up with some on the dole forever while we retrain the
rest or determine that some should just no longer get a cheque. If you adopt that policy though
watch the crime rate soar.
One answer is not going to work and forcing people to do jobs they are not trained to do is a
policy loaded with unforeseen problems and costs associated with it. If we want people to do these
jobs train them to do them, ensure the safety and value is there. If you do that, you will soon find
you would need people who have knowledge and skills and traditionally that is not the domain of
those on welfare.
#28
Re: Is the use of the crane, wrecking ball, bulldozer and dymamite always sensible?
Oct 16th, 2011
OP is good for a laugh but little else-there are a myriad of regulations municipal, provincial and federal to be followed and let's not even think about *asb*st*s.
+1
#29Re: Is the use of the crane, wrecking ball, bulldozer and dymamite always sensible?
Oct 16th, 2011
JLM if t were a case of trained workers looking for work and they were trained to do that
work I could see a salvage operation of such a sort. In that case recycling would apply
and perhaps there would be a benefit as opposed to destruction without any end result
value. I first saw this as OK we have welfare people so we will simply give them work
like it or not. Perhaps we all jumped to a few conclusions first.
I wouldn't want to see a forced situation or untrained people on such a site. Trained,
people with a purpose different situation.
work I could see a salvage operation of such a sort. In that case recycling would apply
and perhaps there would be a benefit as opposed to destruction without any end result
value. I first saw this as OK we have welfare people so we will simply give them work
like it or not. Perhaps we all jumped to a few conclusions first.
I wouldn't want to see a forced situation or untrained people on such a site. Trained,
people with a purpose different situation.
#30
Re: Is the use of the crane, wrecking ball, bulldozer and dymamite always sensible?
Oct 16th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by bill barilko
Yep, red tape generally goes without saying.OP is good for a laugh but little else-there are a myriad of regulations municipal, provincial and federal to be followed and let's not even think about *asb*st*s.
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