Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,981 
Location: Saint John, N.B.
Location: Saint John, N.B.
April 22nd, 2008, 10:34 PM
Sports is now the opium of the people.
Quoting Scott Free
Religion is dead.
The government can be pilfering thieves, food and energy prices can be soaring, NAFTA, the North American Union, troops dying over seas, etc... and what do we have a riot over? Hockey!?!
Yep, it's Canada, the pathetic.
Anyone else turn their AC on when there is still snow on the ground? I found myself doing that the other day. It was a blistering +9c out and I couldn't stand it, my car felt too warm inside damn it!
Yep, it's Canada, the pathetic.
Anyone else turn their AC on when there is still snow on the ground? I found myself doing that the other day. It was a blistering +9c out and I couldn't stand it, my car felt too warm inside damn it!
Sports is now the opium of the people.
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,729
Location: Vancouver Island
Location: Vancouver Island
April 22nd, 2008, 10:37 PM
From the radio report I heard, they were mostly teen agers 14-16 yrs olds, doing the
damage, so we should keep it accurate, as a bunch of no mind kids, who have nothing
better to do than cause trouble, shouldn't cause everyone to paint all with the same
brush. They're not even hockey fans, just punks.
From the radio report I heard, they were mostly teen agers 14-16 yrs olds, doing the
damage, so we should keep it accurate, as a bunch of no mind kids, who have nothing
better to do than cause trouble, shouldn't cause everyone to paint all with the same
brush. They're not even hockey fans, just punks.
April 22nd, 2008, 11:28 PM
Quoting talloola
? if they have that many 14-16 year olds running loose that they can overpower their police force, they've got even worse problems than I thought. They're not just bad hockey fans, they're a city full of negligent parents! lol.
From the radio report I heard, they were mostly teen agers 14-16 yrs olds, doing the
damage, so we should keep it accurate, as a bunch of no mind kids, who have nothing
better to do than cause trouble, shouldn't cause everyone to paint all with the same
brush. They're not even hockey fans, just punks.
damage, so we should keep it accurate, as a bunch of no mind kids, who have nothing
better to do than cause trouble, shouldn't cause everyone to paint all with the same
brush. They're not even hockey fans, just punks.
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 3,428
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
April 22nd, 2008, 11:39 PM
I have no understanding of what happens in Montreal when things go very well (e.g. winning a playoff series) or very badly (e.g. the Richard riots) for the Habs. I live in Regina, and when the Riders won the Grey Cup last fall there was a lot of partying in the streets, public inebriation, and similar predictable things, but it seemed to me to be mostly good spirited fun and the local police, being no fools, generally turned a blind eye to it and let people celebrate. There was some minor damage of course, there are always at least a couple of morons in any crowd, but there was no smashing of store fronts and burning of cars.
I've visited Montreal. It seemed such a civilized and cultured and beautiful city... This is a complete mystery to me.
Quoting Colpy
Maybe so. I wish I could believe it was an improvement, but at least it's provable by any reasonable standard that heroic athletes actually exist.
Religion is dead.
Sports is now the opium of the people.
Sports is now the opium of the people.
I have no understanding of what happens in Montreal when things go very well (e.g. winning a playoff series) or very badly (e.g. the Richard riots) for the Habs. I live in Regina, and when the Riders won the Grey Cup last fall there was a lot of partying in the streets, public inebriation, and similar predictable things, but it seemed to me to be mostly good spirited fun and the local police, being no fools, generally turned a blind eye to it and let people celebrate. There was some minor damage of course, there are always at least a couple of morons in any crowd, but there was no smashing of store fronts and burning of cars.
I've visited Montreal. It seemed such a civilized and cultured and beautiful city... This is a complete mystery to me.
No party affiliation
Posts: 1,343
Location: Oshawa
Location: Oshawa
April 23rd, 2008, 09:45 AM
Shame on rioting Montreal fans TheStar.com - Hockey - Shame on rioting Montreal fans
Chris Zelkovich
April 23, 2008
Dave Perkins
What kind of whacko fan attacks a police car, much less a police officer, after his team wins something?
And what kind of idiot goes wild in the streets after his team wins merely the fourth of 16 victories required for a championship? Surely they can't all be YouTube junkies.
Have they forgotten what a title smells like in Montreal? Are they now as easily impressed as those Maple Leafs fans who invade Yonge St. after a win in a first-round playoff game?
Or are sports fans so simply out of control that a minority believes any and all behaviour, when committed under cover of a crowd, is now acceptable? That explanation gets this vote.
All kinds of questions once again arise from the latest Montreal "hockey riot," albeit one that probably had little to do with hockey itself, in the way that soccer hooliganism hasn't much to do with soccer, other than as a proxy.
Riots in and around sports have been around for a long time and let us limit the conversation to North American sports. From the 1934 Detroit-St. Louis World Series melee through the Pistons-Pacers brawl at Auburn Hills, countless times mayhem that began on the field ended in the stands. Another kind of fan violence, like the Vancouver hockey riots in 1994, followed a crushing defeat. The Canucks fell to the New York Rangers in the Stanley Cup that year and 50,000 fans jammed Robson St., the mood soon turning ugly.
Historically, sports victories have set off the kind of joyous, city-wide parades that followed, say, the Brooklyn Dodgers' 1955 World Series win, or the way Pittsburgh danced all night in 1960 after Bill Mazeroski's home run. Even the Blue Jays' two World Series wins, lo these 16 and 15 years ago, were greeted with restrained enthusiasm across a celebrating city.
But increasingly, it's victories that have set off the fireworks – and fires. Detroit's World Series win in 1984 was remembered for torched police cars and dangerous streets. One of the Lakers' championships was followed by an almost locked-down L.A. Any number of college campuses summoned riot troops to deal with frenzied students after NCAA championships and recall the young woman accidentally shot dead by Boston police during out-of-control celebrations after the Red Sox won the 2004 pennant.
Montreal has a vivid history in these areas. The 1955 riot over the suspension of Rocket Richard was as much, or more, about Quebec resentment at English domination as about the banishment of a star who had socked a referee.
In 1986, after a Stanley Cup win, about 5,000 fans broke windows and damaged property. Subsequent lawsuits found police were criminally negligent in not preparing for the onslaught, so police were ready in 1993 for the Canadiens' most recent Stanley Cup. More than 1,000 helmeted troops were in place anticipating the worst – they thought. But 15 buses and 47 police cars were destroyed, 168 people injured and 115 arrested.
Now this latest chapter and the guess here is that very few of the troublemakers – almost always young males – were actually fans leaving the arena. The chance to be part of a group foaming with adrenaline is a powerful lure to a certain class of individual who joins a mob and, with less accountability, behaves terribly. (Few individuals would throw a rock, but get brave in the middle of a mob.)
Likewise, booze skews the equation, although alcohol is probably mostly an accelerant when the ugliness surfaces. Every great celebration included plenty of booze and not all of them turned violent.
Plus, people used to be more accountable for their behaviour than nowadays.
http://www.thestar.com/printArticle/417229
Shame on rioting Montreal fans TheStar.com - Hockey - Shame on rioting Montreal fans
Chris Zelkovich
April 23, 2008
Dave Perkins
What kind of whacko fan attacks a police car, much less a police officer, after his team wins something?
And what kind of idiot goes wild in the streets after his team wins merely the fourth of 16 victories required for a championship? Surely they can't all be YouTube junkies.
Have they forgotten what a title smells like in Montreal? Are they now as easily impressed as those Maple Leafs fans who invade Yonge St. after a win in a first-round playoff game?
Or are sports fans so simply out of control that a minority believes any and all behaviour, when committed under cover of a crowd, is now acceptable? That explanation gets this vote.
All kinds of questions once again arise from the latest Montreal "hockey riot," albeit one that probably had little to do with hockey itself, in the way that soccer hooliganism hasn't much to do with soccer, other than as a proxy.
Riots in and around sports have been around for a long time and let us limit the conversation to North American sports. From the 1934 Detroit-St. Louis World Series melee through the Pistons-Pacers brawl at Auburn Hills, countless times mayhem that began on the field ended in the stands. Another kind of fan violence, like the Vancouver hockey riots in 1994, followed a crushing defeat. The Canucks fell to the New York Rangers in the Stanley Cup that year and 50,000 fans jammed Robson St., the mood soon turning ugly.
Historically, sports victories have set off the kind of joyous, city-wide parades that followed, say, the Brooklyn Dodgers' 1955 World Series win, or the way Pittsburgh danced all night in 1960 after Bill Mazeroski's home run. Even the Blue Jays' two World Series wins, lo these 16 and 15 years ago, were greeted with restrained enthusiasm across a celebrating city.
But increasingly, it's victories that have set off the fireworks – and fires. Detroit's World Series win in 1984 was remembered for torched police cars and dangerous streets. One of the Lakers' championships was followed by an almost locked-down L.A. Any number of college campuses summoned riot troops to deal with frenzied students after NCAA championships and recall the young woman accidentally shot dead by Boston police during out-of-control celebrations after the Red Sox won the 2004 pennant.
Montreal has a vivid history in these areas. The 1955 riot over the suspension of Rocket Richard was as much, or more, about Quebec resentment at English domination as about the banishment of a star who had socked a referee.
In 1986, after a Stanley Cup win, about 5,000 fans broke windows and damaged property. Subsequent lawsuits found police were criminally negligent in not preparing for the onslaught, so police were ready in 1993 for the Canadiens' most recent Stanley Cup. More than 1,000 helmeted troops were in place anticipating the worst – they thought. But 15 buses and 47 police cars were destroyed, 168 people injured and 115 arrested.
Now this latest chapter and the guess here is that very few of the troublemakers – almost always young males – were actually fans leaving the arena. The chance to be part of a group foaming with adrenaline is a powerful lure to a certain class of individual who joins a mob and, with less accountability, behaves terribly. (Few individuals would throw a rock, but get brave in the middle of a mob.)
Likewise, booze skews the equation, although alcohol is probably mostly an accelerant when the ugliness surfaces. Every great celebration included plenty of booze and not all of them turned violent.
Plus, people used to be more accountable for their behaviour than nowadays.
http://www.thestar.com/printArticle/417229
Super Genius
Posts: 1,052
Location: BC
Location: BC
April 23rd, 2008, 10:44 AM
I think the reason sport can turn ugly so easily is that it is readily associated with that other great (yet never referred to as such) entertainment: war.
I have made this argument many times before: The wars and police actions of the modern day are the replacement for the colosseum games of the Roman Empire. Just as we wonder how people could stand to watch such brutality on such scale and find themselves entertained by it, so too will the future wonder at us and how we can watch war as entertainment, real or otherwise. The fact is war is sell and from news to movies, books and TV war is every bit our entertainment that once titillated the Roman - probably even in a very similar way. This is more true of the American but is increasingly becoming so about us too I'm afraid.
So I am not surprised when these sporting events turn bloody. They entertain us and keep us placid in just the way they did the Roman too. G.I. Joe, Rambo, Luke Sky Walker, etc would have been athletes in a former time. And what of our glorious soldiers? Are they not the first athlete? I would think so.
Quoting Colpy
I agree. Really any mindless entertainment is.
Religion is dead.
Sports is now the opium of the people.
Sports is now the opium of the people.
I think the reason sport can turn ugly so easily is that it is readily associated with that other great (yet never referred to as such) entertainment: war.
I have made this argument many times before: The wars and police actions of the modern day are the replacement for the colosseum games of the Roman Empire. Just as we wonder how people could stand to watch such brutality on such scale and find themselves entertained by it, so too will the future wonder at us and how we can watch war as entertainment, real or otherwise. The fact is war is sell and from news to movies, books and TV war is every bit our entertainment that once titillated the Roman - probably even in a very similar way. This is more true of the American but is increasingly becoming so about us too I'm afraid.
So I am not surprised when these sporting events turn bloody. They entertain us and keep us placid in just the way they did the Roman too. G.I. Joe, Rambo, Luke Sky Walker, etc would have been athletes in a former time. And what of our glorious soldiers? Are they not the first athlete? I would think so.
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,729
Location: Vancouver Island
Location: Vancouver Island
April 23rd, 2008, 12:38 PM
the streets at all hours, and my husband sees them at 5:30-6:00 a.m. when he goes out,
and they are still wandering around, so I guess we can multiply that by hundreds for
a large city. I imagine those police cars were parked somewhere, when set on fire, pretty easy to do that, they wouldn't be setting them on fire, while policemen were
sitting in them, the punks wouldn't be that brave, the kind of kids who
behave like that are usually not too bright, or violent, just, as you say, kids who have
not had enough guidance in the 'parent' department, every community has them, and
of course, when alchohol is added, it's a recipe for disaster.
I am a hockey fan, have been for about 55 years, and I don't want to see all hockey fans
trashed because of a few low life trouble makers, who don't give a damn for the game
of hockey at all, or the players, or the spirit of the city of montreal, who love their
hockey team.
What I do remember though, is very long ago when Maurice Richard was suspended for
'something' he did on the ice, and Montreal rioted, and in those days, it was the hockey
crazed fans, who treated maurice richard like a 'god', and would not stand by while he
was treated that way, (at least in their opinion), but i'm sure he deserved it.
That was a 'real' riot.
Quoting karrie
Even in this small city I see the usual small groups of trouble maker teenagers roaming
? if they have that many 14-16 year olds running loose that they can overpower their police force, they've got even worse problems than I thought. They're not just bad hockey fans, they're a city full of negligent parents! lol.
the streets at all hours, and my husband sees them at 5:30-6:00 a.m. when he goes out,
and they are still wandering around, so I guess we can multiply that by hundreds for
a large city. I imagine those police cars were parked somewhere, when set on fire, pretty easy to do that, they wouldn't be setting them on fire, while policemen were
sitting in them, the punks wouldn't be that brave, the kind of kids who
behave like that are usually not too bright, or violent, just, as you say, kids who have
not had enough guidance in the 'parent' department, every community has them, and
of course, when alchohol is added, it's a recipe for disaster.
I am a hockey fan, have been for about 55 years, and I don't want to see all hockey fans
trashed because of a few low life trouble makers, who don't give a damn for the game
of hockey at all, or the players, or the spirit of the city of montreal, who love their
hockey team.
What I do remember though, is very long ago when Maurice Richard was suspended for
'something' he did on the ice, and Montreal rioted, and in those days, it was the hockey
crazed fans, who treated maurice richard like a 'god', and would not stand by while he
was treated that way, (at least in their opinion), but i'm sure he deserved it.
That was a 'real' riot.
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,729
Location: Vancouver Island
Location: Vancouver Island
April 23rd, 2008, 06:36 PM
Quoting Scott Free
There must be some way to blame this on global warming?
No party affiliation
Posts: 1,343
Location: Oshawa
Location: Oshawa
April 24th, 2008, 09:45 AM
Quoting Scott Free
There must be some way to blame this on enviromentalists.
There must be some way to blame this on global warming?
Super Genius
Posts: 1,135
Location: Montreal
Location: Montreal
April 24th, 2008, 11:57 AM
Quoting Dexter Sinister
I've visited Montreal. It seemed such a civilized and cultured and beautiful city... This is a complete mystery to me.
I live in Montreal! It's even more of a mystery to me!
I've visited Montreal. It seemed such a civilized and cultured and beautiful city... This is a complete mystery to me.
