FIFA should have overruled Quebec on hijab ban

FIFA should have overruled Quebec on hijab ban

sanctus

#1Mar 4th, 2007

By Andy Blatchford
MONTREAL (CP) - The mother of an 11-year-old girl is unhappy with the way the rules division of international soccer's governing body handled the issue of Muslim girls wearing traditional headgear during organized matches.
The International Football Association Board was asked to consider the case of Asmahan Mansour, an Ottawa-area soccer player recently ejected from an indoor game in Quebec for wearing a hijab.
The referee of the game in Laval, north of Montreal, said the scarf was a safety concern.
IFAB officials concluded Saturday in Manchester, England that existing rules for on-field equipment are adequate.
"If you play football, there's a set of laws and rules, and law 4 outlines the basic equipment," said Brian Barwick, chief executive of the English Football Association, which is one of the board's members. "It's absolutely right to be sensitive to people's thoughts and philosophies, but equally there has to be a set of laws that are adhered to, and we favour law 4 being adhered to."
Law 4 states that players "must not use equipment or wear anything that is dangerous to himself or another player (including any kind of jewellery)."
IFAB is the branch of the Federation Internationale de Football Association (FIFA) - soccer's world governing body - in charge of rules.
Maria Mansour, the girl's mother, said the ejection "humiliated" her daughter.
She hoped the IFAB would be sensitive to the issue.
"As far as the decision, it is disappointing because... IFAB should clarify and be more sensitive to these cases," Maria Mansour said Saturday by telephone from Ottawa. "I truly think they should have (overridden) what Quebec's rule is. (Asmahan) is still hoping that Quebec will remove that rule someday so she will be able to play (in Quebec).
"There's nothing that has been accomplished."
The Nepean Hotspurs under-12 team pulled out of the Canadian indoor championship last Sunday when a Muslim referee ruled Asmahan could not wear a hijab during a game.
She has worn a the headscarf during games played in Ontario, where they are permitted by the provincial association.
Quebec's Soccer Federation said the traditional scarf violated a no-headgear rule set by the sport's governing body for safety reasons.
Valmie Ouellet, co-ordinator of regional technical services for the QSF, later said the referee was simply enforcing rules set by FIFA.
Ouellet declined to comment about IFAB's decision on Saturday.
Meanwhile, the director of the Canadian Arab Federation - who is also a Level 2 referee for the Ontario Soccer Association - maintains that traditional headgear such as hijabs, turbans and yarmulkes are worn by soccer players in Canada and around the world.
Mohamed El Rashidy believes this is strictly an issue in Quebec.
"To me, this ruling does not change anything because nothing needs to change," El Rashidy said by phone from his home in Mississauga, Ont.
"The hijab, when worn safely, has already been allowed in the past and will continue to be allowed in the future under FIFA rules."
El Rashidy said female Muslim soccer players make up a large percentage of athletes at the world's elite levels and they wear hijabs on the field.
Mansour said Asmahan was back on the field Saturday in the Ottawa area.
"She had a great game today and scored two awesome goals," she said. "For now, she's happy to play in Ontario."
Copyright © 2007 Canadian Press

#juan

Re: FIFA should have overruled Quebec on hijab ban

Mar 4th, 2007

This is like the guy who just had to wear a turban. They actually changed the rules so one guy could wear a turban in the RCMP. My feeling at the time was that if he wanted to be a "Mountie, he should wear the traditional Stetson.
If this lady wants to play soccer, she should follow the rules set down by the ruling body.

TenPenny

Re: FIFA should have overruled Quebec on hijab ban

Mar 4th, 2007

From what I understand, in Ontario, they allow it, but in Quebec, they were following the letter of the law, so to speak.

It's the inconsistency that causes a problem.

tamarin

Re: FIFA should have overruled Quebec on hijab ban

Mar 4th, 2007

And one wonders what exceptions are made for those entering foreign cultures. If I moved to India or China would my customs trump theirs? Would they be expected to accommodate my beliefs and practices? Or I theirs?
Interesting to see the growing controversy in Toronto where members of the growing Hindu community there are insisting on the right to put the ashes of their dead in local rivers. Along with ceremonial offerings. Should Toronto acquiesce?

Toro

Re: FIFA should have overruled Quebec on hijab ban

Mar 4th, 2007

Good for FIFA.

mapleleafgirl

Re: FIFA should have overruled Quebec on hijab ban

Mar 4th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by tamarin

And one wonders what exceptions are made for those entering foreign cultures. If I moved to India or China would my customs trump theirs? Would they be expected to accommodate my beliefs and practices? Or I theirs?
Interesting to see the growing controversy in Toronto where members of the growing Hindu community there are insisting on the right to put the ashes of their dead in local rivers. Along with ceremonial offerings. Should Toronto acquiesce?

no way. they need to learn theyre in canada now. keep their bizarre customs where they belong,back in their own countries. i dont even think the muslim women should be allowed to wear those things they wear when theyre working in canadian companies.at home or on the street fine, but not at work. its not part of the uniforms of allot of places.

tamarin

Re: FIFA should have overruled Quebec on hijab ban

Mar 4th, 2007

ML, I hear you. When multiculturalism was first pushed in Canada by the Liberal Party, the political organization offered little as to what Canadians should expect in the future if the policy was embedded. The future is here and increasingly we're under pressure to conform not to old identities but the new. I think a lot of Canadians are really pissed off.

TenPenny

Re: FIFA should have overruled Quebec on hijab ban

Mar 4th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by mapleleafgirl

no way. they need to learn theyre in canada now. keep their bizarre customs where they belong,back in their own countries.

Like soccer, too. What are they doing playing that game? After all, they're over here now.

It's hockey in winter, lacrosse in summer. They need to learn to be good upstanding white folks, just to keep mapleleafgirl happy.

And no mixing of races, either. Maybe they need a league all to themselves. Why, they probably smell funny, too.

sanctus

Re: FIFA should have overruled Quebec on hijab ban

Mar 4th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by TenPenny

Like soccer, too. What are they doing playing that game? After all, they're over here now.

It's hockey in winter, lacrosse in summer. They need to learn to be good upstanding white folks, just to keep mapleleafgirl happy.

And no mixing of races, either. Maybe they need a league all to themselves. Why, they probably smell funny, too.

That's not at all what she was suggesting and you know it. Her points were actually succinct. Would you support hindu citizens dumping the ashes of their dead in our rivers?

Sparrow

#10

Re: FIFA should have overruled Quebec on hijab ban

Mar 4th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by sanctus

That's not at all what she was suggesting and you know it. Her points were actually succinct. Would you support hindu citizens dumping the ashes of their dead in our rivers?

It there are law forbidding us from doing it?

If there is then nobody should be allowed to do it! Can you imagine if we all began dumping the ashes of our dead in our rivers! Talk about pollution!!!

TenPenny

#11

Re: FIFA should have overruled Quebec on hijab ban

Mar 4th, 2007

Mr Sanctimonious, there is a difference between pollution and clothing, and even you know that. I'm fairly certain that even the Catholic Church, the one, the only, could see that. Mapleleafgirl is on par with you for tolerance and understanding. I was referring to her comments in another thread. Perhaps you could come down off your high pulpit for a while.

#juan

#12

Re: FIFA should have overruled Quebec on hijab ban

Mar 4th, 2007

The question has likely already been asked but if a Canadian went over to India or Pakistan, is it likely they would change their rules or custom to accommodate him/her?

sanctus

#13

Re: FIFA should have overruled Quebec on hijab ban

Mar 4th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by TenPenny

Mr Sanctimonious, there is a difference between pollution and clothing, and even you know that. I'm fairly certain that even the Catholic Church, the one, the only, could see that. Mapleleafgirl is on par with you for tolerance and understanding. I was referring to her comments in another thread. Perhaps you could come down off your high pulpit for a while.

You need to relax, and read the comments she was replying to regarding an issue in Toronto where the Hindu community wants to dump the ashes of their dead into the rivers as is their custom back where they came from.

sanctus

#14

Re: FIFA should have overruled Quebec on hijab ban

Mar 4th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by #juan

The question has likely already been asked but if a Canadian went over to India or Pakistan, is it likely they would change their rules or custom to accommodate him/her?

Exactly. What people do in their own homes and in their private lives is their own business, but expecting the entire country to accomodate those practices is a bit much.

Blackleaf

#15

Re: FIFA should have overruled Quebec on hijab ban

Mar 4th, 2007

Canada is now starting to experience the problems of Islam that many European countries have been experiencing.

Toro

#16

Re: FIFA should have overruled Quebec on hijab ban

Mar 4th, 2007

You know, they do play soccer in Muslim countries. Funny how this issue has never come up over there, eh?

Zzarchov

#17

Re: FIFA should have overruled Quebec on hijab ban

Mar 4th, 2007

I know! How can they expect us to let them dress however they feel like, just because their morality means they don't like to expose their hair!

Next they will want us not to force the female soccer players to go topless just because of their personal moralities. Women are allowed to go topless in Canada, therefore, they should have to for the same reasons that just because you can go out without a hijab, you should be forced to.

Or does dictating the morality of other people only happen when it fits your morality?

westmanguy

#18

Re: FIFA should have overruled Quebec on hijab ban

Mar 4th, 2007

Alot of Canadians, me included, get a PO'ed when people come to OUR nation, and want to keep their original public life.

What they do in their homes or property is UP TO THEM (as long as its legal), but in the public, and in organizations, you conform to the rules and expectations of that nation.

I have a problem when a person puts their hood up over their head, or a muslim girl covers her head.

In schools, we were never allowed any clothing on our head, but that is thrown out for Muslims!

What you do in your home is your choice, what you do in public or an organization is of that nation or organization's choice.

You can have your culture, but not destroy our culture.

Multiculturalism has killed Canada's culture... our culture is bowing down and conforming to other people's culture.

I personally admire the USA's melting pot, immigrants adjust to a certain way of life in public, and do their own thing in their homes and churches.

tamarin

#19

Re: FIFA should have overruled Quebec on hijab ban

Mar 4th, 2007

Welcome to the leftist nightmare afflicting western countries everywhere. When you encourage immigrants to maintain their identies and cultural practices despite the traditions of the new milieu they're entering you're inviting problems in the future. And you're also disrespecting your own heritage and traditions and institutions for allowing it. It's not cool, it's not progressive. It 's just what it appears to be- simpleminded and stupid. Ask newcomers to integrate and assimilate. It doesn't mean they have to lose everything they've been; it does mean they have to recognize they're now in a new and different country than where they've been. They have to make some important adjustments.

Tonington

#20

Re: FIFA should have overruled Quebec on hijab ban

Mar 4th, 2007

Though I don't think a scarf is really all that important. As long as their face is visible, just like a man walking around in a face mask is kinda unsettling.

westmanguy

#21

Re: FIFA should have overruled Quebec on hijab ban

Mar 4th, 2007

They stay in their own nation if they want to mantain their public culture.

Canada's public culture is different, and you maintain your religion in your home and in your church. And your culture in your home, not in a new nation.

We have lost all identity.

And Tonington, I WILL write my MP about this. OMG are you in Peter MacKay's riding, that would be so cool....

Tonington

#22

Re: FIFA should have overruled Quebec on hijab ban

Mar 4th, 2007

Nope, hes the next riding east of here. Bill Casey is the MP here.

westmanguy

#23

Re: FIFA should have overruled Quebec on hijab ban

Mar 4th, 2007

Is NS a Con. strong hold? What about Atlantic Canada in general, where do they usually lean?

Tonington

#24

Re: FIFA should have overruled Quebec on hijab ban

Mar 4th, 2007

In Federal politics it's mostly Liberal, they took more seats than any other party, 6/11 for Liberals, 3/11 for Conservatives and 2/11 for the NDP.

For the Atlantic Region, it was 9 Conservatives, 20 Liberals and 3 NDP.

TomG

#25

Re: FIFA should have overruled Quebec on hijab ban

Mar 5th, 2007

Lord, get a grip. The issue isn’t about multi-culturalism or personal problems, and the issue certainly isn’t about immigrants coming here and refusing to assimilate (even if such were taken as a genuine issue). Football (Soccer) is an international game governed by FIFA in conjunction with a referees’ association. The rules are international rules. The rules used in Canada don’t belong to Canada, Ontario or Quebec. The rules belong to FIFA, and any specific local variation must be consistent with FIFA rules. In fact, FIFA can be taken as the only true world government at least within its admittedly narrow sphere.

Similarly, the issue also isn’t about human rights or religious freedom. The issue is safety and the authority of game referees. The call made was about safety and was upheld on grounds of safety. The word of the referee on the field is absolute law and inevitably will be upheld by any and all discipline and appeal committees.

In absence of officially certified apparel, the referee’s discretion on that day, about that game, that player and that particular head-gear prevails. What players wear or are allowed to where elsewhere is irrelevant. Every serious play knows that you do what the referee says. Even if the referee is wrong, you still do it, or you don’t play. If you argue you will be ejected and serve a lengthy world-wide suspension, for you have challenged the referee’s authority. The only grounds for appeal is mistaken identity. Players who do not understand or accept the rules are poorly coached and poorly advised. Coaches who withdraw their teams from tournaments also are poorly coached and poorly advised. It’s about safety and the quality of the game. To play at a serious level, you submerge your ego to the requirements of the game. Failure to learn that necessity early in a player’s career has squandered many fine talents. Human rights forums are available many places--even likely within FIFA. Attempted argument and debate with a game official is not the place

tamarin

#26

Re: FIFA should have overruled Quebec on hijab ban

Mar 5th, 2007

Tom, you can split the log any way you want but this one will always be viewed for its multicultural component.

RomSpaceKnight

#27

Re: FIFA should have overruled Quebec on hijab ban

Mar 5th, 2007

Wearing a hajib is hardly performance enhancing. So what's the big deal? I love multi-culturalism. I love the ideal of inclusion and tolerance without conforming. The bigget threat to Canadian culture is those who think we should be more like the states. You don't like it here with all the foreigners and their "funny" ways, leave. Emigrate to another country.

Sparrow

#28

Re: FIFA should have overruled Quebec on hijab ban

Mar 5th, 2007

NO THIS IS MY COUNTRY.

If you don't like my country then you move. There are other countries with multi-culturism that you might like.

snfu73

#29

Re: FIFA should have overruled Quebec on hijab ban

Mar 5th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by westmanguy

Alot of Canadians, me included, get a PO'ed when people come to OUR nation, and want to keep their original public life.

What they do in their homes or property is UP TO THEM (as long as its legal), but in the public, and in organizations, you conform to the rules and expectations of that nation.

I have a problem when a person puts their hood up over their head, or a muslim girl covers her head.

In schools, we were never allowed any clothing on our head, but that is thrown out for Muslims!

What you do in your home is your choice, what you do in public or an organization is of that nation or organization's choice.

You can have your culture, but not destroy our culture.

Multiculturalism has killed Canada's culture... our culture is bowing down and conforming to other people's culture.

I personally admire the USA's melting pot, immigrants adjust to a certain way of life in public, and do their own thing in their homes and churches.

I can't believe you. You get all upset about anyone even breathing criticism about your religion...yet listen to you!!! That's utter crap!!!

snfu73

#30

Re: FIFA should have overruled Quebec on hijab ban

Mar 5th, 2007

Quote: Originally Posted by Sparrow

NO THIS IS MY COUNTRY.

If you don't like my country then you move. There are other countries with multi-culturism that you might like.

This is my country too...you can feel free to leave to a place where people who think only like you, who dress only like you, and talk only like you can hang around...it's called little village in your MIND.

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