Dattaswami's Various Religion Threads

Real human incarnation will not say that He is God


Even the real human incarnation will not say that it is God. Krishna never said that He is God except on one specified occasion, which is preaching Gita to Arjuna. The human incarnation is a two component system in one phase. It is like the alloy of Gold and Copper existing in single phase. When God enters a liberated soul, which is a human being, the human incarnation results. The human incarnation appears as an ordinary human being only. When copper is alloyed with a trace of gold, it appears as copper only. Unless you see it through a powerful microscope, you will not be able to find out the existence of gold in it. Similarly, the human incarnation appears as human being only and unless you are capable of intensive spiritual analysis with the help of scriptures, you will not be able to find out the existence of God in the human incarnation.

Even in the human incarnation, the human being continuously exhibits its own inherent characteristics like birth, death, illness, thirst, hunger, sex, sleep etc., for all practical purposes and one in millions only will be able to recognize the God in it as said in Gita (Kashchitmam…). This type of concept is required because the human beings should be able to approach freely the human incarnation without anxiety and tension to clarify all the doubts. The human behavior in the human incarnation puts down the tension since you treat him as a co-human being only.

Veda says God alone is associated with true infinite knowledge


Unless all the doubts are clarified, the right spiritual direction is impossible. Even in worldly affairs, right direction is the clue of successful achievement of the goal. The right spiritual direction is possible only through right knowledge. The right knowledge is possible only from God because God alone is the absolute truth. All the human beings are under the powerful influence of illusion and hence cannot give the right knowledge. The absolute truth is God and the entire creation including all the souls is just illusion only. No part of the creation will be able to find out the absolute truth, since the entire creation including souls is only relative reality, which is the effect of illusion. Hence, Veda says that God alone is associated with the true and infinite knowledge (Satyam Jnanam….).

The right spiritual direction cannot be obtained by any way other than right knowledge. By doing penance, by singing songs, by fasting, by chanting any mantra, by performing any ritual or worship etc., you cannot obtain the right direction. By studying the scriptures also it is impossible to get the right direction because confusion and doubts crop up. Unless God, the absolute reality and hence the knower of the absolute reality preaches you, you can never get the right direction. The absolute truth is beyond space and hence God alone is the absolute truth and also knower of the absolute truth.

The trace of gold in the alloy is invisible but becomes visible through microscope (Huamn incarnation is a combination of Son of God (a best devotee) and God). The wave nature and particle nature are visible through microscope only and both are imaginable to scientific logic. The unimaginable God is beyond space and has no spatial dimensions. Other than God, all the items in the creation including souls are imaginable because they have spatial dimensions. After all, the soul is nervous energy, which is in the form of propagating waves and it is only a specific special work form of inert energy generated from the inert energy in the functioning nervous system. It is just like the grinding work, which is a specific and special work form of current energy generated in working grinding machine.

Why God has to come in human form?


If the spiritual knowledge is perfect and complete, the devotion and practice are the spontaneous subsequent steps for which there is no need of any effort. If the practice is perfect and complete, the fruit is spontaneous. Therefore, all the efforts should be put only to gain the perfect and complete spiritual knowledge. Hence, Shankara told that knowledge alone can achieve fruit (Jnanadevatu…). The perfect and complete spiritual knowledge is possible only from God. But God is unimaginable and therefore to give this perfect and complete knowledge, the unimaginable God comes down in human form.

For this purpose, which is most important, God will never enter inert medium. The human form means the soul or awareness associated with the human body. Whenever God enters this world the soul is always an associated medium with Him. You should not say that the soul or awareness alone is the associated medium. If you say like that, the soul exists in birds and animals also and these birds and animals cannot give the spiritual knowledge to humanity. Therefore, the soul should mean the soul existing in human body only.

The absolute God is unimaginable and if you introduce Him in the pure original status, no body can understand anything about Him and even His existence may be doubted. To avoid this danger mediated God can be only introduced and the best medium is cosmic energy. Cosmic energy is not God because it is inert. The soul is not God because it is limited and not omniscient. You have to eliminate every medium by the defects and finally conclude that the absolute God is unimaginable to any soul except Himself as said in Veda(Brahamavit Brahamaiva..). This means that knower of God is God is alone. Gita says that no body other than God knows God (Mamtuveda nakaschana…).

Veda says that one blessed soul sees God directly


Human incarnation is a homogeneous mixture of God (Narayana) and human being (Nara) existing as a single-phase alloy of two metals. The alloy of gold as major component and copper as minor component is taken as gold only. Similarly, human incarnation is taken as God. The live wire is treated as current. God is unimaginable even to intelligence and certainly none can see God with eyes (Na chakshusha….Veda). But Veda says that one blessed soul sees God directly (Kaschitdhirah….). God as the pure component is not seen directly. Same God can be seen through a medium of human being (Manusheemtanum….Gita). Everybody takes Him as a human being only as seen by eyes. But only one blessed soul sees Him as God. Vyasa saw Krishna as God while preaching Gita to Arjuna and so he called Krishna as God (Bhagavan). After hearing Gita through Sanjaya, Dhrutarashtra called Krishna as a cheat, who made Arjuna to fight against his sons. Same Krishna was taken as God by Vyasa and as a cheat by Dhrutarashtra. The aspect as God is Nivrutti and as a co-human being in the society is Pravrutti.

You are completely mistaken. I request you to remove your prejudice and read my reply with impariality. The Divine preaching of Holy Jesus is the top most Gospel in the world and touches the climax of the truth. For example Holy Krishna says in Gita that one should withdraw himself from the family bonds slowly like a tortoise withdrawing its limbs (Kurmo ngaaneeva). The tradition of Datta is to cut the family bonds by the Sword of Knowledge as per Gita (Jnanaasi natmanah). But Holy Jesus says that one should hate these family bonds to become His disciple. Cutting the bond is Zero. Existing in the bond is Plus and hating the bond is Minus. Zero is near to Plus and Minus is very far. So if you cut the bond it may form again. But if you hate the bond the bond will never be formed so that the bond with the Lord alone is eternal.

See the preaching of Lord Jesus with impartial attitude and without conservatism. After all a diamond is diamond whether it is foreign diamond or Indian diamond. Thus Holy Jesus is the king of all the divine preachers. He is like the Sun from whom these divine sentences radiate like rays. Holy Bible speaks about the everlasting fire and that the souls have no rebirth. Hindu scriptures say that the soul has rebirth. Both these can be convinced and co-related. The condemned souls enter the everlasting fire, which means that these souls take the births as animals, birds, worms etc, which are like the fire due to the continuous agony. The word “everlasting” means that once the soul enters into the cycle of these births the soul will never come back to the human birth. The rebirth as a human being as told in the Hindu scriptures can be again co-related with the Holy Bible.

Holy Jesus says that the Kingdom of God is extended into this world. The meaning of this is that whenever God comes in human form to stay with us (Immanuel), the disciples of the Lord will be staying in this divine Kingdom on the throwns equally with the Lord. This means the servants of the Lord will take rebirth as human beings and will be preaching here and they will be respected like God. For Ex: The Holy Pope is given the status of God. The Holy Pope and other such top most Bishops and pious Fathers who are indulged in the propagation of the knowledge will get the status of God here itself in this world. Thus, the inner sense is the same in all the scriptures, which is spoken in different ways. The ways are different but the real essence is the same.

The aim of human life is to achieve the grace that is the love of God. Even if you earn more money you are not carrying it after death. Very little money is sufficient to eat and drink which the animals and the birds are also doing even without money. If the aim of the money is only eating, drinking and enjoying, you will be born as animal or bird or worm in the next birth. If your file is opened in the upper world you will not get definitely the human birth. When you serve the Lord in this world when He comes in the human form then only you can get human birth without any enquiry in order to serve the Lord when the Lord reincarnates. You must recognize the Lord by His knowledge, because Veda says that knowledge is Brahman.

Only miracles are not the signs since demons also performed miracles. Gita says that the Lord comes down in human form (Maanusheem tanu masritam). Gita also says that it is very difficult to worship formless (Avyaktahi). Gita also says that if one worships the inert statue, he will be born as a stone (Bhutejya yanti Bhutani). So you must serve the Lord by doing practical service which consists of 1) Sacrifice of work 2) Sacrifice of fruit of work (money), which is also a form of work. The Sacrifice must be to the full extent. When a beggar gives one rupee that is greater than one lakh given by a multi lakhier because the beggar has sacrificed whatever he possessed. Holy Jesus appreciated one old lady who donated whatever she possessed, as the highest divine soul.

We only imagine that God cares for mankind better than the rest. I have asked many sparrows and they agree. Being a worm is not agony, cats are happy, dogs serve the one, righteously, by the observance of the way. We may identify the work of man by the details wherein the devil resides. Details and complexities are smoke and mirrors, base manufactures to propagate the priestly classes, parasites who feed on the fears and wants of the innocent. It is never possible to exist external to god within which we are suspended for eternity. The only evil that exists is to not believe that.

God has no beginning and no end because God is unimaginable. The beginning and the end must be also unimaginable for an unimaginable item. The beginning and the end of the cosmic energy or space or the creation are also unimaginable. Therefore, the beginning and the end are unimaginable for the unimaginable item like God and also for the imaginable item like space. Therefore, the two points, which are the beginning-less and end-less characteristics cannot help you in understanding the real nature of God. If you start recognizing the God by simply these two points (beginning-less and end-less), you may think that God is an imaginable item like the space or energy or the creation.



In fact based on these two characteristics people have imagined God as an imaginable item like space or energy or creation. This concept has misled people to such a low level that people think that God is the very infinite space or infinite energy or infinite creation. Therefore, one should filter the concept of God at this juncture itself. One should think that God has no beginning and no end because the beginning and the end of an unimaginable item are also unimaginable.

Such God desired to create this Universe for entertainment. The very desire itself is the Creation. In view of God this present materialized universe in only an idea or imagination or the very desire itself. Therefore, the desire to create the world is itself the desire and also the created world itself is a desire. Thus the creation, maintenance and dissolution of the imaginary world are also imaginations or desires. A part of this infinite creation is the individual soul. The soul is like a drop of the infinite ocean of imagination or desire of God. Thus, quantitatively the entire ocean of imagination of God is very huge compared to the tiny soul. Remember that both the Universe and the tiny soul are made of the same substance called as imagination or desire.



Thus the force of the Universe is far greater than the force of the soul. Due to such huge quantitative difference of the same phase, the Universe, which is far stronger than the soul appears as a materialized entity for the soul. But this infinite ocean of desire, which is the infinite Universe is a tiny drop compared to the infinite force of God. Therefore, again due to the same quantitative difference of force the entire universe is just the very weak imagination from the view of God. Thus imagination and materialization exist simultaneously true from the point of God and soul.

Credit your sources....

Who created God - BrainMeta.com Forum

and a few other places online

the devil in those details eh

WANTED: suit and tie religion deliveryperson, MUST HAVE OWN VEHICLE

And since all this god and infinity stuff is unimaginable, then can you explain how such a finite mind as a human can say with any certainty, what this god is and what it expects of us? All religious and spiritual belief can be nothing more than speculation since all of it is beyond our comprehension. As such, what use is all this speculation to us in our daily lives, other than to frighten us into behaving in ways that some feel we should behave?

God is unimaginable and invisible to us. At the same time He comes in HUMAN FORM to us. By this He answers all our spiritual doubts and gives the direction to us eye-to eye directly here itself. God enters a medium the best medium is a human being. He enters a devoted servant of Him and comes to us in human form so that we can mingle freely with Him and clarify all our doubts from Him directly here itself. Thus the human incarnation is a combination of God and Son of God in the same human body. The son of god has fully surrendered to the God, so that it is God who only speaks through the mouth of son of GOd- the divine knowledge.

Therefore the answer for your question is that Human incarnation is here to direct you in the spiritual path through His true divine knowledge.

It is impossible Impossible!! ,Present Human incarnation can be treated as God


The human being is unable to perceive even the energetic form of God hidden in the human form. The energetic form of God is in no way different from human form and thus Narayana is not all different from Krishna. In both God is one and the same. The external cover (Upadhi) only differs since the cover in Narayana is energetic form and the cover in Krishna is materialized human form.

If this is the state, how the human being is imagining to perceive the unimaginable original God? It is impossible. It is impossible. It is impossible. Even the intelligence limited by the dimensions of space and time cannot grasp God (Yo Buddheh …) who is beyond space and time. Only the most subtle item of the creation i.e., self (soul) can be grasped by the sharp intelligence (Drushyatetvagraya….).

In the human incarnation also, the soul exists but the unimaginable God charges it. You can grasp the soul present in the human incarnation but you cannot grasp God who is beyond the soul and charged it. Current is quite different from the wire but charges wire. Hence, you can treat such soul as God like treating the live wire as current. It is this charged divine soul existing in the body of Krishna that was referred by Him in Gita (Ahamatma…). Even the energetic body of God is intolerable and what to speak of the original God? Krishna referred to such original God as unknowable item to any one (Mamtuveda Na Kaschana…Gita). When Hanuman tore His chest and showed God in His heart, such God was only the energetic form of Rama. Rama was fully recognized by Hanuman and was constantly maintained in the heart because there was no point of repulsion between common media. Hanuman is a monkey where as Rama is a human being in the higher level. Hanuman exhibited several miracles but the monkeys could not recognize Him as God due to same repulsion of common media.

The monkeys accepted Rama because Rama is higher human being. Similarly, Arjuna could not fully accept Krishna due to same repulsion. But Arjuna could accept the higher energetic form of Lord Shiva since Krishna also worshipped Shiva. Similarly, the monkeys could not accept Hanuman as God because Hanuman also worshipped higher human form of Rama. Daksha, an angel with energetic form could not recognize Shiva as God for the same reason of repulsion. This repulsion of common media is existing even in the angels (Paroksha Priyah ...Veda). When God appeared before the angels in energetic form of light (Yaksha), they could not recognize God for the same reason.

http://www.esnips.com/doc/0db8a6ba-1...vine-knowledge

Dude, the Vedas are 6 thousand years old. The Bible is 2 thousand years old. Those guys, if they were reps from god, had very little influence beyond their geographical areas. If what you say has any validity, where is god's rep today? Why is he not among us today so that we can ask him? Or are you claiming to be today's representative? If you are, show us a miracle. If you are not, then you are just blowing smoke up our butts.

Yoga means fortunate achievement of God in human form

The norms for achievement of God


The word yoga denotes the lucky achievement of God in human form. There can be no better yoga than this. Yoga means fortunate achievement. Putra yoga means fortunate achievement of children. Dhana yoga means fortunate achievement of wealth. Yoga means the real achievement, which is the fortunate achievement of God in alive human form. Geeta is called as Yoga Shastra because it is the real achievement of God in alive human form called as Krishna (any contemporary human incarnation).

Therefore, the norms for achievement of God are:
1) The development of practical sacrifice without aspiring anything in return and
2) the victory over ego and jealousy to recognize the contemporary human incarnation.

The first is achieved during the path of karma and the second is achieved during the path of knowledge just before the diversion from south to north.
Universal-Spirituality
Universal Spirituality for World Peace

How to avoid Tsunami
The sea with its wave-hands is always warning the people not to kill the poor harmless acquatic creatures like fish etc., for the sake of food.
God created lot of vegetable food, which is the best even according to present science of health. The sea represents the Lord and finally kills
the sinners with his own wave-hands. Goddess earth kills the sinners through quakes since these sinners kill the innocent creatures on the earth.
Tsunami is the result of combined anger of father-sea and mother-earth. These innocent creatures have no advocate and even cannot file a criminal case in our courts. Such formalities are not necessary for His
all-pervading court. One sees the punishment only and not the sin, which is the cause. One sympathizes the human beings affected in other
countries also since all human beings are one. But one should broaden his mind and should feel that all the living beings are one and sympathize
every living being. The natural calamities will then disappear. www.Moderator's Edit: Link removed

.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace

Last edited by Ron in Regina; Mar 19th, 2011 at 11:53 AM..Reason: Moderator's Edit: Link removed

Reasons for tsunami

The tsunami is always due to anger of God since you are killing the living beings present in water for food. The earthquakes are due to killing of living beings that exist on the earth. God in the form of Buddha and Mahavir preached the non-violence and severely opposed the killing of living beings.

God in some other human forms might have followed the practice of non-vegetarian food in order to join with non-vegetarian people so that, certain other higher aspects to be preached might have been taken into consideration. That does not mean that God has encouraged the killing of living beings through non-vegetarian food. He might have kept silent on this issue in order to give importance to other serious issues. God follows the ignorance of the students in order to become friendly with them. To control a running bull, you have to run along with it for some distance before controlling it.

All these are the basic concepts of nivrutti, which are the core of pravrutti. By following the ethics of pravrutti, you will avoid God becoming furious with you. Then, through nivrutti, you can please God. On one hand, you are making God furious by not following the ethics of pravrutti and how can you please God through nivrutti simultaneously?
Moderator's Edit: Link removed


Universal Spirituality for World Peace

What bad taste you have. If you could pull your head out of your *** for just a moment you would realize that this isn't the time for you to act like a spoiled brat, even if it is just the Internet. Grow a pair, keep your religious stupidity in check and instead of standing around finger wagging at others, see if you can make yourself useful for a change. Go help someone recover. It will get you further than act like a judgmental ******* on the Internet.

See The solution of Japanese disasters
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/sp...s-tsunami.html
A merge is in order...non?

one more idiot too,looking like condors,scavengers when they try to make something out of such a sad event in the name of religion...

Not a failing exclusive to any one religion.

Unfortunately.

I'd like to see a member of the The Westboro Baptist Church in the forum....just for balance and giggles...
Naaah on second thought... I wouldn't....we already have enough extremists of all flavours

And all of them, figuratively taste, as repugnant as their views.

How do you avoid a tsunami? Don't live on an island or near the coast. Pretty straight forward and something you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out.,

A$$HOLES, like politics come in all religions.

Some would prefer:

Huh....interesting statement. You too have checked out the link?

So you're claiming that natural events like tsunamis, earthquakes, floods, volcanoes, tornadoes, hurricanes, and so forth, that destroy the lives of thousands of people every year, are signs from some deity that he's unhappy with some behaviour you don't approve of. You do realize, don't you, that such natural events were going on long before humans showed up on the planet? What was that, practice for the day he could smack his favourite creatures with them? You'd really do better to try to avoid making such inane, absurd, arrogantly smug and self-serving remarks if you want to have a serious conversation with anybody intelligent.

The Bible says that humans are outside of God's Kingdom ever since Adam. Humans are not inside God's Kingdom. That's why the disasters. If on the other hand, there's no disasters outside God's Kingdom. Then you don't need to return to God's Kingdom in heaven.

Alternatively speaking, the only way to avoid any disasters is to try to make you way back to God's Kingdom in Heaven. There will always be such a difference between the inside and the outside of His Kingdom. If you refuse to return, you'll be left outside to face whatever should happen.

God trusts that His sheep will hear His call to make a right decision to return. So in the end, only the wolves will be left outside in the wilderness facing the disasters or whatever to that effect.

You're worse than a snake oil salesman- any God that would be fit to worship doesn't cause disasters- THAT is just plain evil- that would be Satan doing that.

I think there should have been an eleventh commandment..............................."Keep your f'n nose out of other people's business"!