Salvation or Slavery?

[Cliffy]

A friend of mine, an old Italian philosopher, wrote this. I thought it rather thought provoking.

Get out of my way Jesus! You are all wrong, all wrong! Even your sex is wrong. You have no right to interfere, to intercede. Get out of my way you... you great deceiver of the unworthy and helpless. It is my privilege to face Satan even as it is my exclusive privilege to fail. You swindler, robbing me of my sins! Wiping off my dept. My dept, my guilt!
The scoundrel!
“Here Claudio”, he says, “I have died for you! You are now saved and forever unable to save yourself... forever more in my dept!”
In effects, he pickles me and preserves me forever more in a state of failure! He steals my guilt and walks away with my soul! No thanks. It is Satan’s offer that I understand as the divine gift! It is the dual to the death. He challenges me... I have to fight for my own salvation and if not - perish and go to hell... with Virginia! As I should!
How can anyone wash away my guilt? By making me even more stupid than nature had so cleverly disposed?

 

[damngrumpy]

If you live respectfully and with honesty you don't have to become
a slave to your own insecurities. People are afraid of God so they
have to sacrifice themselves, in order to attain some measure of
salvation. Life is for the living, and you can become a slave to
your religion. I hear so many people, taking every measure so as
to not offend God because he will punish them. At the same time
most clergy tell people to rejoice in the word of the Lord. If one is
in a constant state of fear, and a slave to rituals how can one
possibly rejoice. As far as I remember, I was taught that Christ,
understood the human condition was not perfect and he was in
fact about forgiveness.
I think religion as it is today needs another reformation. The
Baptists and Lutherans and the Evangelical movement have now
become the same as the aged Rome in its thinking. Everything
is sin, and the enjoyment of the human spirit is consumed by
ritual instead of faith. Salvation is for those who rejoice in the
word of what they believe in. Slavery is for those who take their
faith as a chore and make sure all the rules are obeyed to the
letter, without the joy of the message they believed they have
received. either way what one believes is either their
salvation or invitation to slavery, and after all life is what you
make it. Personally I live each day for what its worth and I
tend not to waste days that I will never get back, because
for each of us the clock is ticking, until it stops of course.

 

[ShintoMale]

is it moral and ethical to believe that somebody can die for your sins?

 

[Dexter Sinister]

No, I don't believe it is. The logic of original sin and redemption and salvation via somebody else's awful death escapes me.

 

[Cliffy]

No, I don't believe it is. The logic of original sin and redemption and salvation via somebody else's awful death escapes me.

It is a convenient way to abdicate responsibility for one's actions.

 

[ShintoMale]

YouTube - Feel the Fear and Love Him Anyway

How can you love and fear God?

 

[El Barto]

I don't believe in niether of the two, but I can appreciate the concept (lack of a better word) behind it. Very interesting and thought provoking.

 

[taxslave]

All this only works if you believe that there is a god in the first place. I don't believe in heaven or hell and as long as one does more good than bad karma will protect ones sorry ass.

 

[damngrumpy]

The concept of religion is like a twelve step program for your soul. After all Christ died on
the cross for you the least you can do is behave according to the rules laid down by the
church he founded. Every Time you don't behave according to the state of religion or the
concept of the moral code of the State, you defile the Lord who died on the cross for you,
Even one sin can throw you into hell. One sin can lead to another sin just like drinking or
doing drugs, sins are offences like crimes against God. Therefore the only redemption is
total obedience without thinking, just obey and everything will be fine God will let you into the
gates of heaven.
Think for a minute, would a kind and loving Father, or God throw you into the furnace? If
you are a child of God you have one hell of a violent parent. People made up the rules not
God. There are all kinds of things written in the Bible that contradict the teaching and one
could list them all day however it would do no good as the clergy do the interpreting not the
individual. Things have not changed much since the middle ages, expect all the things your
phone can do.
Even in a belief system, there is nothing wrong with God, it is the people who claim to represent
him and, do his will that concern me. The belief system is designed to instil guilt and to control
the thoughts of people. Mind you that isn't all bad, if some of these hardend criminals who still
believe there is a god, suddenly were convinced there was no God things would be much worse
in our society. Again, not everyone who drinks is an alcoholic, same holds true for those in
religion not everyone is a fanatic, some people believe what they believe and don't bother anyone.
Its the ones that must convert everyone else that become those we must be concerned about.