#1May 25th, 2009
If so / if not so where does it go ?
Just wondering .
The Soul
#4
Re: The Soul
May 25th, 2009
Life and death is a continual process much like the ever expending universe, everything has a continual pulse, action causes reaction, no one will ever know of the exact outcome our souls gets introduced too. One thing is worth remembering is that everything has a pulse, everything is born or manufactured and everything faces the same fate, replacement by the new.
The soul is immortal
The soul is immortal
Last edited by Socrates the Greek; May 25th, 2009 at 07:30 PM..
#5
Re: The Soul
May 25th, 2009
In my thought process, what everyone calls the 'soul' is just what part of you that you leave in other's lives, their memories of you, that never dies.
If it can't be seen by medical scientists, then it is in one's brain, in their thoughts,
part of their intellect, their passion, their love, nothing to do with religion, the
poor soul, that sweet thoughtful person, that person we liked so much, he/she
was loving and kind, all of that is the heart and soul of the person.
If there was a 'real' part of us called a soul, it would be shown on a medical chart,
just like the heart, liver, etc.
If it can't be seen by medical scientists, then it is in one's brain, in their thoughts,
part of their intellect, their passion, their love, nothing to do with religion, the
poor soul, that sweet thoughtful person, that person we liked so much, he/she
was loving and kind, all of that is the heart and soul of the person.
If there was a 'real' part of us called a soul, it would be shown on a medical chart,
just like the heart, liver, etc.
#6
Re: The Soul
May 25th, 2009
Good post, Tal.
Now if I can start thinking of jerks like aPAULing Martin, Lyin Brian Bullroney, etc. as being sweet, thoughtful, loving, and kind, they might actually acquire a soul. lol
Now if I can start thinking of jerks like aPAULing Martin, Lyin Brian Bullroney, etc. as being sweet, thoughtful, loving, and kind, they might actually acquire a soul. lol
#7
Re: The Soul
May 25th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert
not a chanceGood post, Tal.
Now if I can start thinking of jerks like aPAULing Martin, Lyin Brian Bullroney, etc. as being sweet, thoughtful, loving, and kind, they might actually acquire a soul. lol
#10
Re: The Soul
May 26th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by china
No. No part of your personality will survive the death of your body. Does the soul survive after death ?
Quote:
Nowhere. There's no such thing as a soul in the usual meaning of the word, it has no reality outside the realm of ideas, there's no good evidence it's anything more than a fiction. And there's no good evidence there's a place for it to go anyway.If so / if not so where does it go ?
#12
Re: The Soul
May 26th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by El Barto
Na! but he might have misplaced it.Dexter never had a soul
#13
Re: The Soul
May 26th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by El Barto
Right. Nobody else has ever had one either, it's an invention of human wishful thinking, a non-entity. Think about it: a non-physical part of your personality, capable of perception without sense organs, capable of self-awareness and volition without a brain, and thus without a mind... Mystic nonsense.Dexter never had a soul
#15
Re: The Soul
May 26th, 2009
Everything you think, feel, etc. is purely as a result of physiological action.
#16
Re: The Soul
May 27th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister
Without going into some religious context here. Believing in only what you see is rediculous narrow minded. To me that too doesn't make sense. The only thing that remains true in the end is we are sure of nothing but everything can be possible.Right. Nobody else has ever had one either, it's an invention of human wishful thinking, a non-entity. Think about it: a non-physical part of your personality, capable of perception without sense organs, capable of self-awareness and volition without a brain, and thus without a mind... Mystic nonsense.
Reality in the past was that the earth was flat, just look how far we travelled with that perception?
Whats the point of living this if it has no meaning?
#17
Re: The Soul
May 27th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by El Barto
On the contrary, one should accept a claim as true only when there's sufficient evidence to justify the claim. The default rational position is to doubt all claims until the evidence is in. Believing in only what you see is rediculous narrow minded.
Quote:
No, that wasn't reality, that was a delusion based on an incorrect understanding of insufficient evidence, which is pretty much my point here. Better to concede you don't know than to make it up. Reality in the past was that the earth was flat, just look how far we travelled with that perception
Quote:
What's the point of living this if the meaning is assigned by some deity and nobody can claim to understand it because of the presumed mysterious and incomprehensible nature of the deity? We make our own meanings.Whats the point of living this if it has no meaning?
#18
Re: The Soul
May 27th, 2009
Your personal experiences are what form your perception of reality. Every person has had different experiences so their perception is different. Therefore reality is subjective, not objective: it is whatever you believe it is. Religion and science both try to objectify reality in to one homogeneous whole so that everybody thinks the same, believes the same and therefore live in the same reality but it can't be done.
Our perception of reality is a belief system that has been taught to us, so most of in western society see reality in a similar way with personal variations. But many other cultures have different ways of seeing. I have, through association, been able to view reality from their perspectives and it can be vary different. That is why I came to the conclusion that reality is in the eye of the beholder. There are no hard and fast rules.
To me science can be as much of a religion for some as paulianity and Judaism. Many treat them as dogmatic, but there are those who understand that we have barely scratched the surface of understanding ourselves and our reality to know that to be dogmatic is to stunt our growth.
Our perception of reality is a belief system that has been taught to us, so most of in western society see reality in a similar way with personal variations. But many other cultures have different ways of seeing. I have, through association, been able to view reality from their perspectives and it can be vary different. That is why I came to the conclusion that reality is in the eye of the beholder. There are no hard and fast rules.
To me science can be as much of a religion for some as paulianity and Judaism. Many treat them as dogmatic, but there are those who understand that we have barely scratched the surface of understanding ourselves and our reality to know that to be dogmatic is to stunt our growth.
#19
Re: The Soul
May 27th, 2009
IF people can't grasp the reality around them which is hand fed to the masses while alive, how oh how could people possibly grasp the ethereal when dead?
#20
Re: The Soul
May 27th, 2009
no one will ever have to worry about grasping anything, when dead.
life is life, and dead is dead, live your life well, build good memories for your
old age, enjoy your old age, and leave a good taste in the mouths of all of your
special people, so they will think well of you, after you are gone, and what you have done, will affect their lives too, so do it 'well', what you leave your family
and friends, re: who you were, is the only thing that will remain after you are gone.
What you leave to others, about you, after you are gone, is your heart and soul.
life is life, and dead is dead, live your life well, build good memories for your
old age, enjoy your old age, and leave a good taste in the mouths of all of your
special people, so they will think well of you, after you are gone, and what you have done, will affect their lives too, so do it 'well', what you leave your family
and friends, re: who you were, is the only thing that will remain after you are gone.
What you leave to others, about you, after you are gone, is your heart and soul.
#21
Re: The Soul
May 27th, 2009WHERE DID THE IDEA OF AN "IMMORTAL SOUL" COME FROM?
From the booklet "What is Man?" by Keith W. Stump
A human person is both body and soul. The body is the physical flesh-and-blood "shell" temporarily housing the soul. The soul is the nonmaterial aspect, made of spirit. At death the soul leaves the body, and lives on consciously forever in heaven or hell. (Some hold that liberated souls are reborn in new bodies in a series of "reincarnations" or "transmigrations.")
Some form of this concept is found among virtually all peoples and religions in the world today. The average religious person generally takes the idea for granted.
Science, which deals with the material universe and physical data, cannot verify or deny the existence of any such soul.
How, then, can one know whether or not man really has an "immortal soul"?
Few have stopped to ask where the concept came from in the first place. Many simply assume it has its origin in the Bible.
So prepare yourself for what could be one of the big surprises of your life!
--
#22
Re: The Soul
May 27th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy
I think you're conflating reality with people's perceptions, values, and judgments about it. There is an objective reality out there that exists regardless of what people think of it, it was here long before we came along to observe it (13.7 billion years before, according to the best current estimates) and it'll be here long after we're gone.Your personal experiences are what form your perception of reality. Every person has had different experiences so their perception is different. Therefore reality is subjective, not objective
#23
Re: The Soul
May 27th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Socrates the Greek
The complete absence of any good evidence for such a thing, plus the fact that the concept flies in the face of everything we know about how matter and energy are organized and interact, make denial a reasonable and defensible position. Moreover, the soul, if it exists, clearly exists in the material universe and interacts with it during its time in a human body, so its existence is an empirical claim about the nature of reality, and thus ought to be testable by the usual methods of science.Science, which deals with the material universe and physical data, cannot verify or deny the existence of any such soul.
#24
Re: The Soul
May 27th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Socrates the Greek
If it cannot interact with the physical world, than how can it be said to exist except in the mind? If you define the soul as unphysical and unmeasureable, then you define it as nonexistent.Science, which deals with the material universe and physical data, cannot verify or deny the existence of any such soul.
#25
Re: The Soul
May 27th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by petros
lmao Good point.IF people can't grasp the reality around them which is hand fed to the masses while alive, how oh how could people possibly grasp the ethereal when dead?
#26
Re: The Soul
May 27th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Socrates the Greek
If I 'ever' see or have someone prove to me that there is such a thing as a soul,Quote has been trimmed, See full post:
WHERE DID THE IDEA OF AN "IMMORTAL SOUL" COME FROM?
From the booklet "What is Man?" by Keith W. StumpFEW BELIEFS are more widely held than that of the "immortal soul." Virtually everyone is familiar with the concept. The average religious person, if asked, would state it something like this:
A human person is both body and soul. The body is the physical flesh-and-blood "shell" temporarily housing the soul. The soul is the nonmaterial aspect, made of spirit. At death the soul leaves the body, and lives on consciously forever in heaven or hell. (Some hold that liberated souls are reborn in new bodies in a series of "reincarnations" or "transmigrations.")
Some form of this concept is found among virtually all peoples and religions in the world today. The average religious person generally takes the idea for granted.
Science, which deals with the material universe and physical data, cannot verify or deny the existence of any such soul.
How, then, can one know whether or not man really has an "immortal soul"?
then I will study the find. In the meantime, I know what I have seen in this
life of mine, I have seen and realized the outcome of many scientific finds.
I have a good imagination, but I keep it where it belongs, and enjoy that part
of me from time to time, but it doesn't mix with my reality, and what I know
to be fact. I will not be dragged along with others imaginative thoughts that
they mix with their reality, which puts them in some grey area in life.
The idea that there is some kind of invisible soul inside of our bodies is so
far fetched 'to me' that I would feel silly thinking that it could be true.
I can't do that to myself, I must be true to myself. I am a very realistic person.
Just because someone says that I can't prove there is 'no' soul, means nothing
to me. Until someone proves there is a soul, there is not, and there is nothing
happening on this earth that makes that reality doubtful, with the exception
of the religious, and I don't enter into that world at all.
#27
Re: The Soul
May 27th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by talloola
Imagine that. If I 'ever' see or have someone prove to me that there is such a thing as a soul,
then I will study the find. In the meantime, I know what I have seen in this
life of mine, I have seen and realized the outcome of many scientific finds.
I have a good imagination, but I keep it where it belongs, and enjoy that part
of me from time to time, but it doesn't mix with my reality, and what I know
to be fact. I will not be dragged along with others imaginative thoughts that
they mix with their reality, which puts them in some grey area in life.
The idea that there is some kind of invisible soul inside of our bodies is so
far fetched 'to me' that I would feel silly thinking that it could be true.
I can't do that to myself, I must be true to myself. I am a very realistic person.
Just because someone says that I can't prove there is 'no' soul, means nothing
to me. Until someone proves there is a soul, there is not, and there is nothing
happening on this earth that makes that reality doubtful, with the exception
of the religious, and I don't enter into that world at all.
#28
Re: The Soul
May 28th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister
What i was trying to convey here was that we may not have all the means now to see things we don't understand . Nor the means to prove it as with time we know or aquire knowledge that we didn't have before. With the flat earth comment was that of perception. They didn't see beyond the horizon , it didn't mean it didn't exist as we later discovered. But then they assumed that the earth 'was' flat .On the contrary, one should accept a claim as true only when there's sufficient evidence to justify the claim. The default rational position is to doubt all claims until the evidence is in. No, that wasn't reality, that was a delusion based on an incorrect understanding of insufficient evidence, which is pretty much my point here. Better to concede you don't know than to make it up. What's the point of living this if the meaning is assigned by some deity and nobody can claim to understand it because of the presumed mysterious and incomprehensible nature of the deity? We make our own meanings.
Reality that is , beyond our scope of perception isn't at all what we see, yet.
the perception of reality is just that , perception. So what is really real?
#29
Re: The Soul
May 28th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by El Barto
This is what I was trying to say. We have limited perception but those limits, to some degree, are socially imposed by our belief system that physical reality can only be perceived/viewed in a certain way. Thus we see a tree as a trunk with bark, branches and leaves, a separate object from ourselves. A person can be trained to see, or who has not been indoctrinated into our societies dogmatic way of perceiving reality, can see a tree as a flowing form of energy that is interconnected to himself and all things around it. Is their view of reality any more or less valid than the person who only sees the object separate from themselves?What i was trying to convey here was that we may not have all the means now to see things we don't understand . Nor the means to prove it as with time we know or aquire knowledge that we didn't have before. With the flat earth comment was that of perception. They didn't see beyond the horizon , it didn't mean it didn't exist as we later discovered. But then they assumed that the earth 'was' flat .
Reality that is , beyond our scope of perception isn't at all what we see, yet.
the perception of reality is just that , perception. So what is really real?
Just because we can't see something, doesn't mean it is not there. Our physical sensors can only pick up physical data but they are crude and limited in capability. We do have other, much more refined sensory capabilities. There are many stories of people who suddenly become aware that they are in danger. They cannot see the cougar stocking them but they sense it's presence and intent. Or the car that is about to collide with theirs, or even sense that a loved one has just died hundreds of miles away.
Those sensory capabilities do not originate from any physical sensory organ. So where do they originate from? I don't have the answer but I have experienced similar incidents many times. I have seen the tree and all around it as flowing forms of energy. How could that be, if I was indoctrinated into our society's point of view? Unless you have experienced it, there is no way to explain how it happens because it is outside your realm of possibilities, your belief system about reality.
Unless a person is willing to step outside the box that they have been placed in, there is no way that they can perceive what lies beyond the box. There is no way to even perceive the box they are in. The box is the flat earth perspective, outside is the universe.
#30
Re: The Soul
Jun 11th, 2009
Sometimes we "cannot stomach something", we want to "get something off our chest", our "heart bleeds" or someone "talks our head off". Behind such phrases is our experience of the interrelation of body and soul, our physical and mental condition.
The FORUM on hand deals with this topic and - deduced from it - with sex education, which plays an important role in the field of working with children and adolescents. This issue is mainly about the body - however not considered as isolated from the soul but rather in its relationship to it.
_________________________
The FORUM on hand deals with this topic and - deduced from it - with sex education, which plays an important role in the field of working with children and adolescents. This issue is mainly about the body - however not considered as isolated from the soul but rather in its relationship to it.
_________________________
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