The patron saint

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eanassir

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The patron saint​

"Certain Catholic saints are associated with certain life situations.
These patron saints intercede to God for us.
We can take our special needs to them and know they will listen to our prayers, and pray to God with us."
http://www.americancatholic.org/Features/Saints/patrons.asp

Such patron saint sanctification is some sort of associating this patron saint with God Almighty.

This is practiced by most of the followers of the three main heavenly religions: Judaism, Christianity and Islam (in addition to the other religious sects all over the world.)

They – in the following link – have explained it very well:​
  • Such saints are associated with certain life situations
  • These patron saints intercede to God for us.
  • We can take our special needs to them
  • and [We] know they will listen to our prayers,
  • and [they will] pray to God with us.
http://www.americancatholic.org/Features/Saints/patrons.asp

In fact these are the pillars of the idolatry and association every where and at any time: most of Jews, Christians and Muslims believe in such patrons: all of them have their particular saints (by different names).

Christians call them saints, Muslims call them imams and shaikhs, while Jews call them sages or rabbis or may be some other names.

Muslims:
http://www.fnoor.com/pics.htm

Jews:
http://www.answers.com/topic/holy-places



eanassir
http://quranandhebrewbible.t35.com​
 
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eanassir

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The patron saint​


Truly, God is the Patron; He protects man from all dangers, provides him with all kinds of provision, and answers his prayers and supplication; He is the Almighty, the All-Able, and the All-Knowing about his needs, the All-Seeing and the All-Hearing.

To take a patron other than God – be glorified – is a sort of associating such patron with God in the worship and servitude; i.e. the worship will be shared between God and this patron:

So that man will ask his need from this patron in addition to God,
remember him as does he remember God,
love such patron as does he love the Creator,
put his trust on the patron instead of God,
and expend alms for the love of this saint, not for the love of God alone.

This is in the Quran 2: 165​
وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يَتَّخِذُ مِن دُونِ اللّهِ أَندَاداً يُحِبُّونَهُمْ كَحُبِّ اللّهِ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ أَشَدُّ حُبًّا لِّلّهِ​
The explanation:
(Yet [some] of people choose [to worship], other than God, rivals [to God];
they love [these rivals] as God should be loved –
But those who believe love God more ardently.)

The prophets, saints, sages and others are the servants of God; they obeyed God and served Him, feared Him and prayed him alone, until God was pleased with them, so He bestowed on them the various bounties like the correct guidance, the health, righteous science and knowledge and He admitted them to His paradise in the afterlife;
but these righteous men cannot do anything concerning the protection of anyone, unless God Himself protects man. They too cannot profit or harm anyone, unless God Himself does benefit or harm man.
http://man-after-death.t35.com/3.htm#The_Religion_Should_Exclusively_Be_Devoted_to_God_Alone


eanassir
http://man-after-death.t35.com​
 
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Cliffy

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eanassir,

Catholics, Jews and Muslims all pray to the same god, all come from a common origin (Abraham) and all claim to be the only true way to this same god. Now you come up with this nit picky bit of drivel to say that this proves that Islam is the only true way and that even many Muslims are misguided because you, personally, know the only true way even for Muslims.

I, personally, think you are all nuts, but that is only my opinion. That aside, how can any mere human claim to know the will of god. Supposedly god created the Universe and all in it and you think that such an all powerful being gives a rat's ass what you think. Among the trillions of life forms on this planet alone, what makes you think that humans are any better or more important to than any other in god's eyes.

My goodness man, can you not see what a colossal ego trip that is. We put ourselves at the top of all of god's creation! Is that not self worship? Isn't that just as bad as worshiping false idols? Religion and the religious are delusional. What makes you think that humans are worthy of god's protection? We have been slaughtering each other over our religious beliefs for thousands of years. Do you think this pleases god?

Do you think he sits there and says to himself, "Ah! What a humble man. He prays for my help in helping slaughter another man who prays to me to help him slaughter another man who prays to me to help him slaughter another man because one of them thinks that he knows my will and that I will help him in this enterprise of killing another man because he does not believe as he does."?

Can you not see how absurd this looks and sounds to someone watching this? We put people in straight jackets for thinking god talks to them because we think, and rightly so, that they are completely off their rockers.
 
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Cliffy

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That's it? That is all you have to say to refute my statements? You have nothing but an erroneous belief in fiction.
 
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eanassir

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On December 06, 2008​

The patron is God – be glorified – as in the Quran, the Gospel and the Torah.​

The First Commandment in the Torah, the Gospel and the Quran:
http://universeandquran.t35.com/index.htm#First_Commandment​

A – It is mentioned in the Book of Deuteronomy, chapter 5: 7-9
“7-You shall not have strange gods in my sight.
8-You shall not make to yourself a graven thing, nor the likeness of anythings, that are in heaven above, or that are in the earth beneath, or that abide in the waters under the earth."​

B –It is mentioned in the Gospel according to Mark, chapter 12: 29-30
“29-And Jesus answered him: The first commandment of all is: Hear, O Israel;
the Lord your God is one God.
30-And you shall love the Lord your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind and with your whole strength. This is the first commandment.”​

And the following is in the Gospel according to Mark 12:32
“There is One God and there is no other besides Him.”​

C –God-be exalted- said in the Quran 2: 163 ​

وَإِلَهُكُمْ إِلَهٌ وَاحِدٌ لاَّ إِلَهَ إِلاَّ هُوَ الرَّحْمَنُ الرَّحِيمُ​

ُThe explanation: (Your God is One God; there is no god save Him, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.)​

And He -be exalted- said in the Quran 17: 23 ​

وقضى ربُّكَ ألاّ تَعبُدُوا إلاّ إيّاهُ​

The explanation: ([O Mohammed] your Lord decreed, that you [people] must worship none save Him.) ​


 
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eanassir

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Cliffy said:
That's it? That is all you have to say to refute my statements? You have nothing but an erroneous belief in fiction.
Click to expand...

Only the first sentence of your reply was true; most of the rest is mixing things and confusion.
The confused association with God cannot be like the pure monotheism and exclusive devotion to God alone.



 
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Cliffy

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Just as I thought... your belief is the only one worthy of consideration. This is precisely what my point is - that such a belief system, one that says their view is the only valid view, is the reason for ALL the bloodshed in this world. Do you think that Allah approves of all the killing, even among Muslims, of those who do not believe as you do? That is not confusing. That is a pointed question and your refusal to discuss these questions is an evasion of the truth. What are you hiding or hiding from?

Are you afraid that the truth will come out that your god approves of murder of infidels or even rival factions of the Muslim faith?
 
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eanassir

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Cliffy said:
... one that says their view is the only valid view, is the reason for ALL the bloodshed in this world. Do you think that Allah approves of all the killing, even among Muslims, of those who do not believe as you do? That is not confusing.

That is a pointed question and your refusal to discuss these questions is an evasion of the truth. What are you hiding or hiding from?

Are you afraid that the truth will come out that your god approves of murder of infidels or even rival factions of the Muslim faith?
Click to expand...



  • As I told you: it is your confusing the subject: you mix the truth with falsehood.
What has brought the blood shedding to the First Commandment and that God is One god alone without associate or patron?

God – be glorified – said in the Quran 3: 71​

يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ لِمَ تَلْبِسُونَ الْحَقَّ بِالْبَاطِلِ وَتَكْتُمُونَ الْحَقَّ وَأَنتُمْ تَعْلَمُونَ​

The explanation:
(O people of the Bible [lit. Scripture],
why do you confound the truth [about Mohammed] with [your] falsehood, and conceal the truth [about his description in your Books],
the while you well know [that he is truthful?] )​

  • Moreover, you try to suggest to others that what I have criticized concerning the association of the patron saint with God is false, and that I am afraid lest the truth should be clear before people.

  • In addition, you try to shift or detract the discussion to another sidesubject: the "blood shedding": is this some cunning or not?​
So you chose to shift the subject from the principal subject of the monotheism and glorifying God alone to this subject of "the blood shedding" because you know it is some point that the murderers themselves go this way of claims.​



So this is your falsehood and confounding (on one hand) the truth of the exclusive devotion to God, with (on the other hand) the falsehood of the enthusiasm about Jesus and the saints; just like the enthusiastic among Muslims, Jews, Christians and others. ​

That is because the enthusiasm will lead to associating these righteous men with God;
so that people will start to make their servitude and worship shared between God and these patron saints, but not exclusive to God alone.​


 
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Cliffy

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eanassir,

OK, I see that you are only interested in discussing, or more correctly, telling everybody that the only truth, that we should all worship the one god, as long as it is your interpretation of the Muslim way of worship, and that this worshiping is the only topic that you are willing to discuss. You are not willing to discuss any dissension concerning the fact that adherents to all three Abrahamic religions have been killing each other for two thousand years because it would force you to face reality and you can't handle reality. You prefer to bury your head in fantasy. I can understand that. Reality is scary.

But what I don't understand is, why do you post your religious views on a forum, but refuse to discuss those views when you are challenged on them? Isn't that what a public forum for? Isn't that the purpose of a forum? To discuss? Not just post your beliefs and then hide behind them as if they are a shield from opposition.
 
ahmadabdalrhman

ahmadabdalrhman

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Cliffy said:
eanassir,

. You are not willing to discuss any dissension concerning the fact that adherents to all three Abrahamic religions have been killing each other for two thousand years because it would force you to face reality and you can't handle reality. You prefer to bury your head in fantasy. I can understand that. Reality is scary.

.
Click to expand...

become the Islam light to world before now about 1420 years

how can Abrahamic religions have been killing each other for two thousand years ?

 
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Cliffy

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become the Islam light to world before now about 1420 years

how can Abrahamic religions have been killing each other for two thousand years ?

eanassir,

Yes, Muslims are late comers to the party but in the old testament of the bible, the Jews slaughtered entire tribes into extinction because god told them to. Christians have slaughtered untold millions in the name of their god and Muslims have done their fair share since coming on the stage and "spreading the word". There is no way to know the exact number of millions of people slaughtered in the name of this god of Abraham but you have to wonder why people still revere this psychopath.

I am saying to you the same thing I say to christians. I'm not picking on you, I am truly dumb founded as to why you guys think so highly of a god that I don't thnk deserves it. I would really like to know why.
 
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eanassir

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On December 6, 2008

The danger of the enthusiasm about the patron saint:

The patron saint sanctification is the contemporary association and idolatry; it is prevalent everywhere.
Instead of that man prays to God alone, he prays to this patron saint in order that such patron saint will intercede for him: in order that God will answer his prayers.

¨ To every occupation there is a patron saint – he is supposed to protect the members of this occupation, guard them against dangers and bring to them every good thing. [While it is God That does all this to man].
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patron_saints_of_occupations_and_activities

Of course, it is not the members of this occupation who choose this saint or that, but almost there are some men (who have personal advantages that arrange all such patronism.)

¨ To every country and city, they assigned some patron saint.
http://saints.sqpn.com/
[While God truly is the protecting patron of all people everywhere.]

¨ To every day of the year there is one or more of such patron saints:
http://saints.sqpn.com/calendar-of-saints/
[While God truly is the protecting patron of all people everyday and every hour.]

Therefore, people will start to sanctify and glorify such saints instead of glorifying God – be exalted – and this concerns the followers of all the heavenly religions.
People will fear this patron [saint or imam or rabbi] lest he should punish them; they will swear by this imam instead of swearing by God; will trust in this saint rather than God, will pray and ask their needs from this righteous sage or matriarch like Rachel the wife of Prophet Jacob.

In this way people will fall in the idolatry and polytheism, even if they belong by their identity to one of the heavenly religions.


eanassir
http://quranandhebrewbible.t35.com​
 
ahmadabdalrhman

ahmadabdalrhman

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Sep 14, 2008
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Cliffy said:
become the Islam light to world before now about 1420 years

how can Abrahamic religions have been killing each other for two thousand years ?

eanassir,

Yes, Muslims are late comers to the party but in the old testament of the bible, the Jews slaughtered entire tribes into extinction because god told them to. Christians have slaughtered untold millions in the name of their god and Muslims have done their fair share since coming on the stage and "spreading the word". There is no way to know the exact number of millions of people slaughtered in the name of this god of Abraham but you have to wonder why people still revere this psychopath.

I am saying to you the same thing I say to christians. I'm not picking on you, I am truly dumb founded as to why you guys think so highly of a god that I don't thnk deserves it. I would really like to know why.
Click to expand...

to leave the slaves from slaves worship

to worship the the creator

and to

to leave the people from iniquity religions to the islam fairness

that time was human worship to the humans


and very very much from iniquity in Earth
 
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Cliffy

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to leave the people from iniquity religions to the islam fairness

eanassir,

You have got to be kidding. Fairness includes beating your wife, stoning a woman who has been raped, killing people who do not want to convert to you religion... You find this fair and just?
 
ahmadabdalrhman

ahmadabdalrhman

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Cliffy said:
to leave the people from iniquity religions to the islam fairness


You have got to be kidding.
Click to expand...

Islam is different from other religions because it not only tells you not to steal, be kind to your neighbour, not harm others, give to the poor, be clean physically and mentally and show respect for others regardless their race, colour or religion etc. it tells you how to implement these things into your life
e.g. a man should not eat to his full while his neighbour has nothing to eat.

The Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said:
"There is no superiority for an Arab over a non-Arab and for a non-Arab over an Arab; or for white over the black or for the black over the white except in piety. Verily the noblest among you is he who is the most pious."

Fairness includes beating your wife,

YouTube - The Truth about Wife Beating and Islam

stoning a woman who has been raped,
Click to expand...


who he was fatling

islam not say to stoning him

and look here

http://www.islamtomorrow.com/articles/marriage_is_for_youth.html

killing people who do not want to convert to you religion
Click to expand...
the god say : -

Sahih International:There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.




 
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eanassir

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Cliffy said:
But what I don't understand is, why do you post your religious views on a forum, but refuse to discuss those views when you are challenged on them? Isn't that what a public forum for? Isn't that the purpose of a forum? To discuss? Not just post your beliefs and then hide behind them as if they are a shield from opposition.
Click to expand...


Discussion is very good, but let it be related to this topic of the patron saint.
 
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