Who is Jesus?

Who is Jesus?

Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God, the second person in the "Holy trinity." However, the very Bible which is used as a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for doctrine within Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge you to consult your own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are not drawn out of context:

1. God is All Knowing.....but Jesus was not
When speaking of the day of judgment, Jesus clearly gave evidence of a limitation on his knowledge when he said, "but of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the son, but the Father." Mark 13:32, and Matt 24:36. But God knows all. His knowledge is without any limitations. That Jesus, of his own admission, did not know when the day of judgment would be, is clear proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and that Jesus is therefore not God.

2. God is All Powerful.....but Jesus was not
While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the power he had was not his own but was derived from God when he said, "Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do..." St. John 5:19. Again he said, "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." St. John 5:30. But God is not only all-powerful, He is also the source of all power and authority. That Jesus, of his own admission, could do nothing on his own is clear proof that Jesus is not all-powerful, and that therefore Jesus is not God.

3. God does not have a God.....but Jesus did have a God.
God is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call upon nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was one whom he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, "l ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." St. John 20:17. He is also reported to have cried out while on the cross, "My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?" Matt 27:46. If Jesus were God, then couldn't this be read, "Myself, myself why hast thou forsaken me?" Would that not be pure nonsense? When Jesus prayed the Lord's prayer (Luke 11:2-4), was he praying to himself? When in the garden of Gethsemane he prayed, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: Nevertheless not as I will but as thou wilt." Matt 26:36-39. Was Jesus praying to himself? That Jesus, of his own admission and by his own actions, acknowledged, worshipped, and prayed to another being as God is clear proof that Jesus himself is not God.

4. God is an invisible spirit.....but Jesus was flesh and blood
While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said that this could not be done with God when he said. "No man hath seen God at any time." St. John 1:18. '"Ye have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His shape." St. John 5:37. He also said in St. John 4:24. "God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." That Jesus would say that no one had seen or heard God at any time, while his followers both saw and heard him, is clear proof that Jesus was not God.

5. No one is greater than God and no one can direct Him but Jesus acknowledged someone greater than himself whose will was distinct from his own.
Perhaps the clearest indication we have that Jesus and God are not equal, and therefore not one and the same, come again from the mouth of Jesus himself who said in St. John 14:28, "My Father is greater than I." When someone referred to him as good master in Matt 19:17, Jesus responded, "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God..." Furthermore, Jesus drew clear distinctions between himself and God when he said, "I proceeded forth and came from God, neither came I of myself but He sent me." St. John 8:42. Jesus gave clear evidence of his subordination to God, rather than his equality with God,when he said in Luke 22:42, "not my will but thine be done" and in St. John 5:30, "I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father which hath sent me." That Jesus would admit that he did not come into the world on his own initiative but was directed to do so, that he would acknowledge another being as greater than himself, and that he would negate his own will in deference to affirming the will of another, give clear proof that Jesus is not the Supreme One and therefore Jesus is not God.

Conclusion
The Church recognizes the Bible as the primary source of knowledge about God and Jesus. But since the Bible makes it clear that Jesus is not the Supreme Being and the Supreme Being is not Jesus, upon what basis have you come to believe otherwise?

My brother or sister, the belief that the Supreme Being is a Trinity is false and completely inconsistent with the words of Jesus as presented in the Bible. God is one, not three. He is a perfect unity.

If you are interested in the truth about God and your relationship to Him, we invite you to investigate the religion of Islam.


What is the word of God about Jesus:

A. Regarding Sonship of Jesus:
That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth, concerning which they are doubting. It is not for God to take a son unto Him. Glory be to Him! When He decrees a thing he but says to it "Be", and it is. (Qur'an 19:34,35).

And they say, 'The All-merciful has taken unto Himself a son.' You have indeed advanced something hideous. The heavens are well nigh rent of it and the earth split asunder, and the mountains well nigh fall down crashing for that they have attributed to the All-Merciful a son; and it behoves not the All-Merciful to take a son. None is there in the heavens and earth but comes to the All-Merciful as a servant (Qur'an 19:88-93).

Truly the likeness of Jesus, in God's sight, is as Adam's likeness; He created him of dust, then said He unto him, "Be", and he was. (Qur'an 3:59).

People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say not as to God but the Truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers. and say not, 'Three', Refrain, better is it for you. God is only One God. Glory be on Him - that He should have a son! To Him belongs that which is in the heavens and on the earth, God suffices for a guardian. (Qur'an 4:171)

B. Regarding Jesus being God:
And when God said. 'O Jesus son of Mary,did you say unto men, "Take me and my mother as gods, apart from God?" He Said, 'To You be Glory! It is not mine to say what I have no right to. If I indeed said it, You knew it, knowing what is within my soul, and I do not know what is within Your soul; You know the things unseen. I only said to them what You did command me: "Serve God, my Lord and your Lord." And I was a witness over them, while I remained among them; but when You did take me to Yourself the Watcher over them; You are the witness of everything. (Quran 5:116,117)

C. Regarding Crucifiction of Jesus:
And for their unbelief, and their uttering against Mary a mighty calumny, and for their saying, 'We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, the Messenger of God'...yet they did not slay him, neither crucified him, only a likeness of that was shown to them. Those who are at variance concerning him surely are in doubt regarding him, they have no knowledge of him, except the following of surmise; and they did not slay him of certainty... no indeed, God raised him up to Him; God is Almighty, All-Wise. There is not one of the people of the Book but will assuredly believe in him before his death, and on the Resurrection Day he will be a witness against them. (Qur'an 4:156-159)

The Bible doesn't teach the 'trinity', God is one, Christ is one and the Holy Spirit is one. Most certainly many Christians have swallowed the trinity as being true. The RCC even held that view for many 100's of years. They have backtracked somewhat by saying 'it is a complicated matter' (which it isn't)
1) True Jesus didn't know the 'date' of His return when He spoke about it. He did however have much knowledge about what would happen on that day and in the times leading upto that day.
2)Again that is true and when He came the first time He was 'limited' in what He was appointed to do. Those restriction will be lifted at His 2nd coming (for the most part), He will have all authority over Man. Anything God did in the OT will be 'available' to Christ on that day. Power over who lives and who dies is one, power to destroy cities (in the same manner as Sodom) is another. The one portion of wrath withheld is sending Satan to the Lake, God himself does that a bit later.
3)Proverbs:8:22-36 speaks a great deal about the relationship between God and Christ. That is how Jesus could properly say "Before Abraham was I am".
4)Invisible is not quite true, we are unable to see Him at this time (for our own sake as we would certainly die at that moment because we are still 'in sin'). After Judgment Day we will be able to stand before God and see His form and His face so for now those things only remain 'hidden' from us.
5)While being less than God, being the only begotten Son of God puts Christ far and above anything that was ever created.
One point you didn't mention is that blasphemy against Christ will be forgiven, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. There cannot be two different treatments if Christ and the Holy Spirit were one and the same (as the 'trinity' tries to teach)

Conclusion
There is a clear separation between God and Christ, the separation between God and the Holy Spirit is not as clear as the Spirit is more akin to being the right hand of God (that which makes spoken words reality)

a)Jesus came as a messenger, that does not mean that is all that He is, a Messenger does not accomplish 'things' like cleansing the earth of the wicked ones (treading the winepress), or resurrecting some of the dead back to life, or building what will be called a House of Prayer, all those things, and much more, are accomplished by Christ acting with Power and Glory, bestowed on Him bt Lord God Almighty. That part is needed so the people whom are with Him do not turn to vapor when they actually meet God.
b)Christ has witnessed everything including who the Heavens and Earth were formed.
Lu:24:27:
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets,
he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

That would include appearing as an Angel of the Lord in the OT as well as being the 'person described as performing some events' in any end-time prophecies that are extensively covered in the OT.

c)Resurrection day for some will be the first day of His return, for others it will be their time of being put in the graves or into hell (which ends 1,000 years later) until Judgment Day. Christ will be witness against these people (after all He put them in these places) but God Himself still has the power to show mercy to these.
Hebrews 12 and Isaiah 65 both show that it is a day of chastisement rather than a day of being sentenced to the Lake where Satan is sent. Revelation 21 also covers this.

So while the Qur'an may lead a person to some conclusions about God and Christ the Holy Bible also teaches the very same thing. The Bible might be even more specific in that it contains several references to how long some things take once they actually start.
There is no way of determining that date but prayer would certainly seem to be a key part on making it through that time.

De:4:29:
But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God,
thou shalt find him,
if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
De:4:30:
When thou art in tribulation,
and all these things are come upon thee,
even in the latter days,
if thou turn to the LORD thy God,
and shalt be obedient unto his voice;
De:4:31:
(For the LORD thy God is a merciful God
he will not forsake thee,
neither destroy thee,
nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

Have faith in God

No thanks. I can't see the point in having faith in a "person" that has never been shown to have existed. So, I will have faith in me and other people.

Hell, I'm not even religious but I know Jesus is said to be the Son of God....

I thought this was Jesus:



But in relation to the topic, The Bible was written via a few stories written by some guys hunreds of years after Jesus lived and died. Stories passed down from word of mouth, which isn't very reliable..... a few stories taken from a long pile of other stories by other writers of the time....

None of what is written in the Bible are from the Word of God, but from the Word of Other Humans, therefore I believe what I see, hear and feel, not what someone tells me is the truth...... truth is subjective.

This is not like the one I saw in my night dream or vision about Jesus: see it here in this Canadian Content Forum:
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The Christ as did I see him had the fine Israeli features of the face (although his face was also oblong like this man); this one is like an English man and his facial features are coarse; I don't remember I saw Jesus having such long hair.

God revealed to the disciples of the Christ to write the Gospel, following the death of Jesus (after he was saved from their killing, he went to Syria, and died near Damascus.)
But later on, the original Gospel was lost; these are only some translations of a Greek edition.

God wrote the Ten Commandments on the tablets of stone, and Moses brought them down from the Mount Hor; then God - be glorified - revealed the four books of the Pentateugue to Moses; the Book of Genesis was inherited from the time of Abraham and his sons before Moses.
Then many prophets of the Children of Israel, each had a book included in the Bible or Torah collection, which is an extensive book.

This is in the Quran 6: 91

I thought Jesus was a baseball player; I know that Satan plays in the NHL.

Could have been.
One on the Dodgers team.
Now for hire to the highest bidder.

Jesus is just a retelling of the --; made convincing because of the literary tradition. We have a written account so we tend to think that adds validity; which it certainly doesn't (fallacy). In reality Christianity had originated in an oral tradition and wasn't written down until much later. The account of Jesus was plainly "borrowed" from the pagan traditions and was likely created in the same way they were. Odds are very good that Jesus, as depicted in the bible, never existed. It is likely that no one like Jesus ever existed. The odds are about the same that if Jesus existed then Horus also existed.

Who is Jesus?
My saviour.

Jesus was the leader of the worlds biggest cult who have over the years propped up the biggest fairytale of all time.

I stopped believing in God about the same time I stopped believing in Santa....when I was 8.

You should actually be aware of what in in the Bible before you dismiss it. Here is the only description that is given of Jesus' physical appearance.

Isa:53:2:
For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant,
and as a root out of a dry ground:
he hath no form nor comeliness;
and when we shall see him,
there is no beauty that we should desire him.
Isa:53:3:
He is despised and rejected of men;
a man of sorrows,
and acquainted with grief:
and we hid as it were our faces from him;
he was despised,
and we esteemed him not.
Isa:53:4:
Surely he hath borne our griefs,
and carried our sorrows:
yet we did esteem him stricken,
smitten of God,
and afflicted.

Now go paint another picture.

Jesus was a plant?

That's a new one.

From the description, being despised and such, he sounds like maybe a weed or something.

jesus had anal sex with Muhammad in the presence of pigs and un-covered women.

I don't believe the part about the pigs, I know my pigs would never do that.

I couldn't ever come up with an equal to that. Good piggies LOL

Wrong. the new testament writers were actually witnesses to seeing Jesus, or they had interviewed the eyewitnesses. Most of it was actually recorded within the generation of Jesus' death. Which is pretty good by historian standards. Lots of the great works by greek philosophers exist today only because we have copies of copies that were 500 to 1000 years after the original. We don't question their validity.

As for him never existing. Wrong again. There are many non-christian sources
that cite a living Jesus.

Wrong

Wrong

Wrong

Perhaps, if it were true...

Oh?

Seems like there is some dispute here. Most of the Neo-hellenic Sophists had contemporary students that transcribed their ideas, which is why they are considered more authentic than the Bible that was written by people 80-150 years after the alleged Christ was to have lived.

Wrong

Hearsay; there is no other proof of existence other than word of mouth. Witnesses are unreliable. After the purported eye-witness told so-and-so who told whatsisname who told whosit who told .... who started writing things down, we might as well worship Dr. Seuss's "Cat in the Hat". Evidence? Again no evidence?

Links?

None of that is true.

The oldest written accounts of Jesus are letters from Paul who never met the man. Paul was going on hearsay and instructing people on how and what to think of Jesus. He travelled setting up churches and telling stories. The books of the bible we have today, the oldest ones, are copies of copies of copies of copies of copies, to use Ehrman's description, and not one original manuscript of any description survives. So the authors, the validity, the origin etc.. of the books is completely unknown. It is entirely possible the stories were told to people and written down - that IMO is extremely likely actually, given there were (as we see in Paul) people wandering around telling marvellous stories of a man they hadn't met! I can think of no better or simpler explanation for any myth than this dynamic. How else do we have the story of Mosses, Isis, Zeus, Apalo, Thor, Enlil, Horus and the rest? It must have been an acceptable practise to wander around telling made up stories or stories based on hearsay and claim they were real. How else is it possible people believed in all the pagan gods? What other simple mechanism could have brought that about? And now today we have the exact same circumstance in Jesus! You claim the story is right out of abject ignorance! It is obvious you have never investigated this story yet your ready to bare false witness. Your children and other peoples children will walk away with your delusions. That is the mechanism that allows myth to perpetuate itself - stupid dumb ignorance and a refusal to look at fact.

The response to this will have to dazzle me.

Jesus is a crutch for the weak minded to lean on.

I don't often get to agree with you so I'll post my agreement.

It seems people are more prone to religion if they are bothered by the notion of being responsible for themselves, are scared of being left alone (don't trust themselves), or are bothered by the idea that mankind is a transitory epic in the planets history and as a species is mortal. That does strike me as weak.

We agree on most things Scott you just don't believe man is destroying th planet and I do.

That as far as I know is our only difference.

I'll go with solar deities for 200 Alex!

Yet another solar diety with its roots in Egyptian astrology and called "Christianity".

What is Jesus?

The myth has mutated into something dark and stinky IMHO and it does seem highly unlikely Jesus ever existed being just a metaphor for the sun after all. Ummm, there is no denying this world would be a better place if everyone actually followed the advice in the bible.

"Then Jesus went into the temple, threw out everyone who was selling and buying in the temple, and overturned the moneychangers' tables and the chairs of those who sold doves"

Welcome to the new world order economy where you are bought and sold, something that would make our virtual Jesus puke and rain down hell fire I am sure!

I agree we are ruining the eco system of the planet and thereby seriously threatening our own species. I have no problem with that.

What I have a problem with is making changes to our behaviour that aren't scientifically proved to be of use. If we just assume, for example, that carbon is causing GW, we run the risk of not discovering the actual cause. If, for example, we insist recycling is a benefit to the planet we may fail to see that it actually has a tremendous cost which is far greater than if we didn't recycle (most things).

My point has always been we should not react without careful consideration, to whatever "threat" is currently in the spotlight. That knee jerk reactions can cause more harm than good. This is why I do think that "not doing anything" can be much better than "doing something" before all the information has been properly analyzed.

Any attempt to reduce carbon whether you believe it is the cause of GW or not still has a massive benefit.

Not sure why you want to fight that.

Who Was Jesus - peace be upon him
called "Essa" in Arabic

Islam honors all the prophets who were sent to mankind. Muslims respect all prophets in general, but Jesus in particular, because he was one of the prophets who foretold the coming of Muhammad. Muslims, too, await the second coming of Jesus. They consider him one of the greatest of Allah's prophets to mankind. A Muslim does not refer to him simply as "Jesus," but normally adds the phrase "peace be upon him" as a sign of respect.
No other religion in the world respects and dignifies Jesus as Islam does. The Quran confirms his virgin birth (a chapter of the Quran is entitled "Mary"), and Mary is considered to have been one of the purest women in all creation. The Quran describes Jesus' birth as follows:
"Behold!' the Angel said, God has chosen you, and purified you, and chosen you above the women of all nations. Mary, God gives you good news of a word from Him, whose name shall be the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, honored in this world and in the Hereafter, and one of those brought near to God. He shall speak to the people from his cradle and in maturity, and he shall be of the righteous. She said: "My Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me?' He said: "Even so; God creates what He will. When He decrees a thing, He says to it, 'Be!' and it is." [3:42-47]
Muslims believe that Jesus was born immaculately, and through the same power which had brought Eve to life and Adam into being without a father or a mother.
"Truly, the likeness of Jesus with God is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, and then said to him, 'Be!' and he was." [3:59]
During his prophetic mission, Jesus performed many miracles. The Quran tells us that he said:
"I have come to you with a sign from your Lord: I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it and it becomes a bird by God's leave. And I heal the blind, and the lepers, and I raise the dead by God's leave." [3:49]
Muhammad and Jesus, as well as the other prophets, were sent to confirm the belief in one God. This is referred to in the Quran where Jesus is reported as saying that he came:
"To attest the law which was before me, and to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden you; I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, so fear God and obey me." [3:50]
Prophet Muhammad emphasized the importance of Jesus by saying: "Whoever believes there is no god but Allah, alone without partner, that Muhammad is His messenger, that Jesus is a servant and messenger of God, His word breathed into Mary and a spirit emanating from Him, and that Paradise and Hell are true, shall be received by God into Heaven. [Bukhari]

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