Newbie
Posts: 38 
March 26th, 2008, 11:05 PM
I believe in One Almighty Triune God, The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost, Creator of Heaven and Earth. ( There is more but............ )
So, One Triune God,
Now matter what the rc church says , (they don't deserve a capitalization in my view ) that thing calling itslelf the true church is more wrong than right.
As for the Blessed Virgin Mary, I hope your hatred of all things spiritual does not includ Her as well, does it grump ?
Quoting mrgrumpy
Well since you asked,
So let me ask our practising religionist friends their opinion on the nature of the God they worship;
Some religionists claim there is only One God ("I believe in one God, creator of heaven and earth"), indivisible and sovereign; some say he has three parts -Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Does that mean three exist in one?
The RC Church has also been trying to add Mary as a "co-creationist" in the last few years - does that make four?
So, One? Three? Four?
Some religionists claim there is only One God ("I believe in one God, creator of heaven and earth"), indivisible and sovereign; some say he has three parts -Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Does that mean three exist in one?
The RC Church has also been trying to add Mary as a "co-creationist" in the last few years - does that make four?
So, One? Three? Four?
I believe in One Almighty Triune God, The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost, Creator of Heaven and Earth. ( There is more but............ )
So, One Triune God,
Now matter what the rc church says , (they don't deserve a capitalization in my view ) that thing calling itslelf the true church is more wrong than right.
As for the Blessed Virgin Mary, I hope your hatred of all things spiritual does not includ Her as well, does it grump ?
Newbie
Posts: 38
March 26th, 2008, 11:35 PM
Quoting MikeyDB
Why does the truth matter is a question to be answered in the heart of me, of you and of anyone who cares enough to want to know the truth and love it. In my belief, God and how I see Him as Truth is my all. I mean, God is All, and to me giving my little all to Him is the least I can do. So ya it matters, it matters to me. Sorry to trouble you with it.
Why does it matter?
Newbie
Posts: 38
March 27th, 2008, 12:37 AM
As for the truth " according to the Gospel of myself, yourself or anyself " I guess the debate will be endless till someone comes with absolute proof about the whole thing. Agreed ?
Quoting MikeyDB
Well I'm not blind and neither am I deaf, even if I was both the interior of self would tell me there was something more and greater than me and I would seek it. Actually the concept is interesting.
BM5
Ask a blind man to describe a sunset. Ask a deaf man to critique Handel's Messiah.
Ask yourself why you might think you mean by the "truth".
Ask a blind man to describe a sunset. Ask a deaf man to critique Handel's Messiah.
Ask yourself why you might think you mean by the "truth".
As for the truth " according to the Gospel of myself, yourself or anyself " I guess the debate will be endless till someone comes with absolute proof about the whole thing. Agreed ?
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 3,399 
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
March 27th, 2008, 12:49 AM
Your view of god is very like the views expressed by Spinoza and Einstein on the subject, so you're in pretty good company. What I think is that god is the wrong word for what you want to talk about. I don't remember Spinoza clearly enough to be sure, but I know Einstein used the word only metaphorically when he said things like "God does not play dice with the universe" (except it turns out that he apparently does, but that's another discussion). Stephen Hawking uses the word the same way, as do a number of other scientists who write for a popular audience, and I wish they wouldn't, because it's a deceptive and misleading metaphor. They do not mean anything like what most people understand by the word god, and neither do you, and we already have perfectly good words that *do* mean what you mean. Nature, reality, the cosmos, the universe...
What is a structure made of? It's made of whatever it's made of: wood, bricks, steel, ideas...
What is energy made of? It's not made of anything, in the sense that you can't break it down into a list of components that can be put together to make energy in a fashion similar to how nature makes protons and neutrons out of several kinds of quarks. Energy is the fundamental component, you can't go any deeper than that. It's like electrons; they're not made of anything the way neutrons and protons are, electrons are fundamental. In the simplest physical terms, energy is just the ability to do work, and work is done when a force is exerted and something moves. Odd as it may seem, if you struggle and heave and grunt trying to move a piano, and it doesn't move, you haven't done any work on it. You've done *some* work of course, your body's been moving in various ways, but you've imparted no energy to the piano except for the trivially minor elastic deformation you caused by pushing on it.
In one sense you're right that myths are as real as the laws of physics. Myths certainly exist as ideas, you can pick up a book and read about them, and some people will be moved to certain actions by them, depending on their attitude toward them. But they really have no existence outside the realm of ideas. The laws of physics do. They are accurate, predictive, testable, consistent descriptions of how nature behaves, so they must be built into the fabric of nature (whatever that means...) and I think that gives them a higher order of reality than myths can claim. And note that I am not claiming we know them; I will claim only that we know some of them to a certain degree of approximation.
And to belatedly get around to explicitly answering the OP, as if anybody who knows me was in any doubt, I believe in zero gods. I think the fundamental reality is matter and its interactions.
Quoting s_lone
Yes, I'm well aware of that, and I find such discussions with you interesting and provocative. You've noticed, I presume, that I *do* keep talking with you?
Well Dex, you know I want to discuss subjects like these seriously and in depth.
Your view of god is very like the views expressed by Spinoza and Einstein on the subject, so you're in pretty good company. What I think is that god is the wrong word for what you want to talk about. I don't remember Spinoza clearly enough to be sure, but I know Einstein used the word only metaphorically when he said things like "God does not play dice with the universe" (except it turns out that he apparently does, but that's another discussion). Stephen Hawking uses the word the same way, as do a number of other scientists who write for a popular audience, and I wish they wouldn't, because it's a deceptive and misleading metaphor. They do not mean anything like what most people understand by the word god, and neither do you, and we already have perfectly good words that *do* mean what you mean. Nature, reality, the cosmos, the universe...
What is a structure made of? It's made of whatever it's made of: wood, bricks, steel, ideas...
What is energy made of? It's not made of anything, in the sense that you can't break it down into a list of components that can be put together to make energy in a fashion similar to how nature makes protons and neutrons out of several kinds of quarks. Energy is the fundamental component, you can't go any deeper than that. It's like electrons; they're not made of anything the way neutrons and protons are, electrons are fundamental. In the simplest physical terms, energy is just the ability to do work, and work is done when a force is exerted and something moves. Odd as it may seem, if you struggle and heave and grunt trying to move a piano, and it doesn't move, you haven't done any work on it. You've done *some* work of course, your body's been moving in various ways, but you've imparted no energy to the piano except for the trivially minor elastic deformation you caused by pushing on it.
In one sense you're right that myths are as real as the laws of physics. Myths certainly exist as ideas, you can pick up a book and read about them, and some people will be moved to certain actions by them, depending on their attitude toward them. But they really have no existence outside the realm of ideas. The laws of physics do. They are accurate, predictive, testable, consistent descriptions of how nature behaves, so they must be built into the fabric of nature (whatever that means...) and I think that gives them a higher order of reality than myths can claim. And note that I am not claiming we know them; I will claim only that we know some of them to a certain degree of approximation.
And to belatedly get around to explicitly answering the OP, as if anybody who knows me was in any doubt, I believe in zero gods. I think the fundamental reality is matter and its interactions.
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,902
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
March 27th, 2008, 01:03 AM
Heres my answer to that.
God the Father by name is the creator of all that there is.
But because mankind was made in likeness of God, there could but exist one God. All other god likes are as dead in His sight.
God the Son is mankind's representative of the Father God to reconcile that which was lost in the process, into one body, that body being the one God the Father.
Life than being a resultant. (Spiritually speaking)
Now mankind can exist as a god but within the Father God spiritually.
The Holy Spirit is the Father God, representative Jesus name,and representative to mankind via the heart, or spiritually while yet alive in the flesh.
These three are consistently referenced throughout the whole of the bible.
Father God the creator, Jesus Christ the creator and the Holy Spirit the comforter in the second creation.
Apart from those three, you have absolutely nothing.
They are all one in the same, but in different applications to arrive at the end results, and that is to give us all god like abilities without the penalty of eternal death due to there being but the one God over all.
All that is clear and very understandable throughout the scriptures if..........................
one should be inclined to seek it out with dire interest and not to find loop holes.
Peace>>>AJ
Quoting mrgrumpy
So let me ask our practising religionist friends their opinion on the nature of the God they worship;
Some religionists claim there is only One God ("I believe in one God, creator of heaven and earth"), indivisible and sovereign; some say he has three parts -Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Does that mean three exist in one?
The RC Church has also been trying to add Mary as a "co-creationist" in the last few years - does that make four?
So, One? Three? Four?
Some religionists claim there is only One God ("I believe in one God, creator of heaven and earth"), indivisible and sovereign; some say he has three parts -Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Does that mean three exist in one?
The RC Church has also been trying to add Mary as a "co-creationist" in the last few years - does that make four?
So, One? Three? Four?
Heres my answer to that.
God the Father by name is the creator of all that there is.
But because mankind was made in likeness of God, there could but exist one God. All other god likes are as dead in His sight.
God the Son is mankind's representative of the Father God to reconcile that which was lost in the process, into one body, that body being the one God the Father.
Life than being a resultant. (Spiritually speaking)
Now mankind can exist as a god but within the Father God spiritually.
The Holy Spirit is the Father God, representative Jesus name,and representative to mankind via the heart, or spiritually while yet alive in the flesh.
These three are consistently referenced throughout the whole of the bible.
Father God the creator, Jesus Christ the creator and the Holy Spirit the comforter in the second creation.
Apart from those three, you have absolutely nothing.
They are all one in the same, but in different applications to arrive at the end results, and that is to give us all god like abilities without the penalty of eternal death due to there being but the one God over all.
All that is clear and very understandable throughout the scriptures if..........................
one should be inclined to seek it out with dire interest and not to find loop holes.
Peace>>>AJ
Super Genius
Posts: 1,413
Location: Tula
Location: Tula
March 27th, 2008, 02:36 AM
[quote=china;938605]
- but if there is no God, who then controls people’s lives and everything on earth?
- The people themselves do, - Berliose hastened to reply to this, to tell the truth, rather vague question.
- Pardon me, - the stranger responded gently, - in order to control, you need to have a precise plan for a more or less lengthy period. And let me ask you, how can people control anything, if they are not only devoid of the ability to make up a plan for some ridiculous period of time, - say, a thousand years, but can’t even be sure of their lives in the day to come? And really, - and the stranger turned to Berliose, - imagine, for example, that you start giving orders, controlling yourself and the others, start enjoying it, so to say, when suddenly you get… umm… lung sarcoma… - and the foreigner smiled sweetly, as if the thought of sarcoma pleased him, - oh yes, sarcoma, - he screwed up his eyes like a cat and repeated the sonorous word, - and you are done with controlling! No one’s fate, but your own, interests you anymore. Your relatives start lying to you. Feeling that something is wrong, you first rush to learned doctors, then to quacks, and sometimes even to fortune-tellers. And everything is quite useless – you understand it yourself. The end is tragic: the one, who but a short time ago thought himself to be controlling something, finds himself lying in a wooden box. And his people, realizing that they won’t benefit from him anymore, burn him in a furnace. And sometimes things are even worse: a man would decide to go to Kislovodsk, - the foreigner screwed his eyes and looked at Berliose, - an easiest thing to do, as it seems. But he can’t even do that, because for no apparent reason he would slip and fall under the wheels of a tram! Would you say that he has controlled it himself? Wouldn’t it be more correct to suppose, that somebody else has controlled him? – and the stranger gave a queer laugh.
[quote=china;938605]
Quote:
If you get hit by a truck, and die is that the Reality you created for yourself? Or was that reality created for you by some other power? Quoting a famous Russian novel, "The Master and Margarita":
Laws of the Universe .
- you Create 100% Of Your Reality And No One Can Create In Your Reality But You.
- but if there is no God, who then controls people’s lives and everything on earth?
- The people themselves do, - Berliose hastened to reply to this, to tell the truth, rather vague question.
- Pardon me, - the stranger responded gently, - in order to control, you need to have a precise plan for a more or less lengthy period. And let me ask you, how can people control anything, if they are not only devoid of the ability to make up a plan for some ridiculous period of time, - say, a thousand years, but can’t even be sure of their lives in the day to come? And really, - and the stranger turned to Berliose, - imagine, for example, that you start giving orders, controlling yourself and the others, start enjoying it, so to say, when suddenly you get… umm… lung sarcoma… - and the foreigner smiled sweetly, as if the thought of sarcoma pleased him, - oh yes, sarcoma, - he screwed up his eyes like a cat and repeated the sonorous word, - and you are done with controlling! No one’s fate, but your own, interests you anymore. Your relatives start lying to you. Feeling that something is wrong, you first rush to learned doctors, then to quacks, and sometimes even to fortune-tellers. And everything is quite useless – you understand it yourself. The end is tragic: the one, who but a short time ago thought himself to be controlling something, finds himself lying in a wooden box. And his people, realizing that they won’t benefit from him anymore, burn him in a furnace. And sometimes things are even worse: a man would decide to go to Kislovodsk, - the foreigner screwed his eyes and looked at Berliose, - an easiest thing to do, as it seems. But he can’t even do that, because for no apparent reason he would slip and fall under the wheels of a tram! Would you say that he has controlled it himself? Wouldn’t it be more correct to suppose, that somebody else has controlled him? – and the stranger gave a queer laugh.
Quote:
If you are God, would you care to give me immortality and eternal youth? I'd sure be very grateful to you, China!
everything Is God, For God Is All There Is. Therefore, I And You Must Be God, Too.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,413
Location: Tula
Location: Tula
March 27th, 2008, 02:49 AM
I believe in very many Gods. Every Pagan religion has an extensive pantheon. Our Gods are personifications of the forces of Nature, of the Universe and of different manifestations of human beings.
And I can't help believing in my Gods, because I have actually seen them, spoken to them, heard them reply to me. After an experience like that, you don't believe. You actually know.
I believe in very many Gods. Every Pagan religion has an extensive pantheon. Our Gods are personifications of the forces of Nature, of the Universe and of different manifestations of human beings.
And I can't help believing in my Gods, because I have actually seen them, spoken to them, heard them reply to me. After an experience like that, you don't believe. You actually know.
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,902
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
March 27th, 2008, 02:57 AM
Peace>>>AJ
Quoting BM5
Be it as you will, my friend, God will honor your hearts desire even if it is through Mary.
I would like to go on record, ( for what it's worth on a forum ) about the Blessed Virgin Mary. In my heart God is All, as God the Son, His presence in this world was through Her, so also my presence with Him will be through Her.
Peace>>>AJ
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,902
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
March 27th, 2008, 02:59 AM
Peace>>>AJ
Quoting Vereya
If your gods give you the peace and love for mankind as your brother and sisters, then God will honor that.
I believe in very many Gods. Every Pagan religion has an extensive pantheon. Our Gods are personifications of the forces of Nature, of the Universe and of different manifestations of human beings.
And I can't help believing in my Gods, because I have actually seen them, spoken to them, heard them reply to me. After an experience like that, you don't believe. You actually know.
And I can't help believing in my Gods, because I have actually seen them, spoken to them, heard them reply to me. After an experience like that, you don't believe. You actually know.
Peace>>>AJ
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,902
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
March 27th, 2008, 03:02 AM
If you are God, would you care to give me immortality and eternal youth? I'd sure be very grateful to you, China! >>>China
We, you and I can be instrumental in sharing God with some by which if they receive it, will inherit eternal life as promised by Jesus.
Peace>>>AJ
If you are God, would you care to give me immortality and eternal youth? I'd sure be very grateful to you, China! >>>China
We, you and I can be instrumental in sharing God with some by which if they receive it, will inherit eternal life as promised by Jesus.
Peace>>>AJ
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,902
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
March 27th, 2008, 03:04 AM
Peace>>>AJ
Quoting BM5
Your heart is after God's own heart my friend.
Why does the truth matter is a question to be answered in the heart of me, of you and of anyone who cares enough to want to know the truth and love it. In my belief, God and how I see Him as Truth is my all. I mean, God is All, and to me giving my little all to Him is the least I can do. So ya it matters, it matters to me. Sorry to trouble you with it.
Peace>>>AJ
Super Genius
Posts: 1,413
Location: Tula
Location: Tula
March 27th, 2008, 03:15 AM
Quoting look3467
Thanks! But I don't really care for the kind of eternal life Jesus promised
We, you and I can be instrumental in sharing God with some by which if they receive it, will inherit eternal life as promised by Jesus.
Peace>>>AJ
Peace>>>AJ
Time Out
Posts: 360 
Location: The desolate but charming outback of the prairies.
Location: The desolate but charming outback of the prairies.
March 27th, 2008, 03:37 AM
http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...causation.html
Quoting look3467
Maybe have a look at this;
Heres my answer to that.
God the Father by name is the creator of all that there is.
But because mankind was made in likeness of God, there could but exist one God. All other god likes are as dead in His sight.
God the Son is mankind's representative of the Father God to reconcile that which was lost in the process, into one body, that body being the one God the Father.
Life than being a resultant. (Spiritually speaking)
Now mankind can exist as a god but within the Father God spiritually.
The Holy Spirit is the Father God, representative Jesus name,and representative to mankind via the heart, or spiritually while yet alive in the flesh.
These three are consistently referenced throughout the whole of the bible.
Father God the creator, Jesus Christ the creator and the Holy Spirit the comforter in the second creation.
Apart from those three, you have absolutely nothing.
They are all one in the same, but in different applications to arrive at the end results, and that is to give us all god like abilities without the penalty of eternal death due to there being but the one God over all.
All that is clear and very understandable throughout the scriptures if..........................
one should be inclined to seek it out with dire interest and not to find loop holes.
Peace>>>AJ
God the Father by name is the creator of all that there is.
But because mankind was made in likeness of God, there could but exist one God. All other god likes are as dead in His sight.
God the Son is mankind's representative of the Father God to reconcile that which was lost in the process, into one body, that body being the one God the Father.
Life than being a resultant. (Spiritually speaking)
Now mankind can exist as a god but within the Father God spiritually.
The Holy Spirit is the Father God, representative Jesus name,and representative to mankind via the heart, or spiritually while yet alive in the flesh.
These three are consistently referenced throughout the whole of the bible.
Father God the creator, Jesus Christ the creator and the Holy Spirit the comforter in the second creation.
Apart from those three, you have absolutely nothing.
They are all one in the same, but in different applications to arrive at the end results, and that is to give us all god like abilities without the penalty of eternal death due to there being but the one God over all.
All that is clear and very understandable throughout the scriptures if..........................
one should be inclined to seek it out with dire interest and not to find loop holes.
Peace>>>AJ
http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...causation.html
Time Out
Posts: 360
Location: The desolate but charming outback of the prairies.
Location: The desolate but charming outback of the prairies.
March 27th, 2008, 04:09 AM
In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife: but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince men that they need salvation; that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy man living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this , historically has been it's precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity man is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.
In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife: but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince men that they need salvation; that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy man living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this , historically has been it's precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity man is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,902
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
March 27th, 2008, 10:48 AM
But let me explain a few things first so that perhaps you might understand where obedience comes in to the picture.
Mankind was created with the ability to reason, to know what is good form what is evil.
That was not learned but through time and experience as mankind evolved from the simple stone age mentality to modern day knowledge.
What was at stake here in this whole process was the state of mankind's soul, whether then or today that needed to be addressed by the creator.
Going along with my last post you will see that there can be but only one God, over all and not one more.
God in Jesus was that remedy, He is the one to whom obedience was a necessity for the salvation of mankind.
Our obedience or our righteousness as the bible puts it, is as filthy rags, and Gods righteousness alone is the only salvation mankind has.
The process of finding God throughout all of humanity was winked at by God as mere ignorance, but at a predetermined time in mankind's history Jesus made the scene as Gods righteousness gift to mankind.
That righteousness was a gift to mankind but had to meet the requirements of obedience that mankind without God could not meet, it had to be God's doing, therefore, God offered Jesus as that vessel of obedience for all mankind.
Hence, all mankind is gifted with righteousness solely for the purpose of salvation of the soul,(who and what you are, your character) but not for the salvation of the body because it still dies.
Like I said, God winked at all mankind's attempts to find God in the many gods ever created by mankind's minds to making of monuments of them and worshiped as gods.
Is it hard to understand that the vessel created has no power of its own to sustain life in the body much less in the spirit unless the creator of the vessel does it?
God has revealed Himself to us by way of prophets foretelling the coming of the Savior, and at the last, Jesus does appear to fulfill all that was told of His coming and the purpose of His coming.
We now have full revelation of who and what God is in Jesus, what He came to accomplish and what God did in favor of mankind by gifting mankind with His own righteousness.
Hence Jesus is the only name by which mankind can be saved, for He alone endured to the end to win that salvation for us.
Now, to address the churches, religions views of obedience with the threat of hell, is a process by which this great a salvation (gift) has to be worked out.
To have understanding of what salvation is, is to rely only on the righteousness of God in Christ and not our own.
The churches are having to learn through trial and error what that means and to the weaknesses of mankind, greed, power and subjection, the churches have somewhat failed to relay the truth.
Time, knowledge revealed and experience has a way of metamorphosing mankind into a new man as seen from our first parents (Stone age) to todays modern man.
We owe it to all their sacrifices of their leaning experiences, their sufferings, their efforts to find God, that today we have evolved into a very knowable human beings.
One would think that because of all that, we'd learn to get along with each other better.
Unfortunately, it will take allot more time, but lets not give the struggle up, for in the struggle is where mankind is going to find that state of perfection, to where all things earthly will mean but nothing compared to what awaits us in the after life.
So, all borderline believers and unbelievers, please understand that your struggle to understand God is nothing new.
The great news is that in your struggles, God winks at, but yet allows us to reap what we sow in the flesh only as long as we are in the flesh, because after the flesh, your soul belongs to Him.
Why not look into this God of love, lover of your soul directly? Seek His face through study, prayer and meditation and not listen to what mankind says He is.
Why listen to me? If I show something other than what God is, than don't listen, but if I demonstrate to you a drawing, a leading a challenge, with kindness and understanding to wards you as if God were bidding you look at Him, then definitely, give it a try.
I know there is allot of bragging of how wonderful life is without God, but trust me, each one of them knows in their hearts, though they would admit it not, that there is a God.
But because of mankind's sorry excuse for demonstration of Gods goodness, mankind is set back.................but not lost.
I hope this helps somewhat, for there is not much space to tell all of the goodness and love God has given in our favor.
Peace>>>AJ
Quoting mrgrumpy
Mrgrumpy, I give you all good reason to make that statement! You have it right to a T.
In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife: but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince men that they need salvation; that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy man living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this , historically has been it's precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity man is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.
But let me explain a few things first so that perhaps you might understand where obedience comes in to the picture.
Mankind was created with the ability to reason, to know what is good form what is evil.
That was not learned but through time and experience as mankind evolved from the simple stone age mentality to modern day knowledge.
What was at stake here in this whole process was the state of mankind's soul, whether then or today that needed to be addressed by the creator.
Going along with my last post you will see that there can be but only one God, over all and not one more.
God in Jesus was that remedy, He is the one to whom obedience was a necessity for the salvation of mankind.
Our obedience or our righteousness as the bible puts it, is as filthy rags, and Gods righteousness alone is the only salvation mankind has.
The process of finding God throughout all of humanity was winked at by God as mere ignorance, but at a predetermined time in mankind's history Jesus made the scene as Gods righteousness gift to mankind.
That righteousness was a gift to mankind but had to meet the requirements of obedience that mankind without God could not meet, it had to be God's doing, therefore, God offered Jesus as that vessel of obedience for all mankind.
Hence, all mankind is gifted with righteousness solely for the purpose of salvation of the soul,(who and what you are, your character) but not for the salvation of the body because it still dies.
Like I said, God winked at all mankind's attempts to find God in the many gods ever created by mankind's minds to making of monuments of them and worshiped as gods.
Is it hard to understand that the vessel created has no power of its own to sustain life in the body much less in the spirit unless the creator of the vessel does it?
God has revealed Himself to us by way of prophets foretelling the coming of the Savior, and at the last, Jesus does appear to fulfill all that was told of His coming and the purpose of His coming.
We now have full revelation of who and what God is in Jesus, what He came to accomplish and what God did in favor of mankind by gifting mankind with His own righteousness.
Hence Jesus is the only name by which mankind can be saved, for He alone endured to the end to win that salvation for us.
Now, to address the churches, religions views of obedience with the threat of hell, is a process by which this great a salvation (gift) has to be worked out.
To have understanding of what salvation is, is to rely only on the righteousness of God in Christ and not our own.
The churches are having to learn through trial and error what that means and to the weaknesses of mankind, greed, power and subjection, the churches have somewhat failed to relay the truth.
Time, knowledge revealed and experience has a way of metamorphosing mankind into a new man as seen from our first parents (Stone age) to todays modern man.
We owe it to all their sacrifices of their leaning experiences, their sufferings, their efforts to find God, that today we have evolved into a very knowable human beings.
One would think that because of all that, we'd learn to get along with each other better.
Unfortunately, it will take allot more time, but lets not give the struggle up, for in the struggle is where mankind is going to find that state of perfection, to where all things earthly will mean but nothing compared to what awaits us in the after life.
So, all borderline believers and unbelievers, please understand that your struggle to understand God is nothing new.
The great news is that in your struggles, God winks at, but yet allows us to reap what we sow in the flesh only as long as we are in the flesh, because after the flesh, your soul belongs to Him.
Why not look into this God of love, lover of your soul directly? Seek His face through study, prayer and meditation and not listen to what mankind says He is.
Why listen to me? If I show something other than what God is, than don't listen, but if I demonstrate to you a drawing, a leading a challenge, with kindness and understanding to wards you as if God were bidding you look at Him, then definitely, give it a try.
I know there is allot of bragging of how wonderful life is without God, but trust me, each one of them knows in their hearts, though they would admit it not, that there is a God.
But because of mankind's sorry excuse for demonstration of Gods goodness, mankind is set back.................but not lost.
I hope this helps somewhat, for there is not much space to tell all of the goodness and love God has given in our favor.
Peace>>>AJ
