Knows No Bounds
Posts: 3,311 
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
March 21st, 2008, 12:51 PM
An Easter Blessing
Originally posted anonymously April 15, 2001 on alt.atheism. Not by me unfortunately, I wish I'd written this.
Beloved, let us rejoice, for this is a time of celebration. In the true spirit of this season, let our hearts be gladdened, and let us pray and pay tribute to the deity in whose honor this holiday comes...
...Eastre, the Germanic goddess of spring.
No, no, wait, that's not right. Let's try again.
Please forgive our previous silly mistake. As we all well know, beloved, this holiday comes not because of any primitive druidic goddess, but rather in honor of a heroic figure, a true god among men, who was born of a mortal woman and a divine Father. As should be obvious by now, the name of this very special child was...
...Hercules.
No - hold on. That can't be right either.
Of course, of course. The hero of our story, the one whom we have gathered here to thank, was no figure of pagan Greek polytheism. He was a redeemer, one who came to earth to lift up sinful and ignorant humans, knowing full well he would pay the ultimate price for his actions, but willing to go ahead anyway out of love and compassion. As you all know, this blessed Savior was called...
...Prometheus.
No, no, give us just a minute. We'll get it right.
We all know full well who is being described here, of course. He is the one, the One, who defeated death itself and rose from the grave, in a miracle that no other would-be savior has ever been able to duplicate. By dramatically displaying his power over death, he proved once and for all that he was the single true god. And his name was...
...Osiris.
No, wait. That's not right either. Of course! What a ridiculous error to make. Our apologies.
Beloved, only one god fits this description. You know him well -- millions of you around the world today worship him. He was conceived miraculously and visited while still an infant by wise men who were guided to him by a star. He lived in a small province whose evil ruler sought to have him killed before he could rise to power, but his parents were warned by a heavenly messenger who instructed them to take their child to a neighboring district, where he would be safe from the slaughter. This miracle child would come to grow up and perform many great deeds, and the timeless and moving story of his life was recounted throughout history and still rings true today. I refer of course to...
...Krishna.
Is that right? That can't be right, can it?
No! Beloved, the god to whom I refer stands alone, unique, head and shoulders above the myths and fables of the false religions. No other savior ever claimed to duplicate his deeds. No other prophet was anything at all like him. He was the mediator between God and man, he helps departed souls ascend to heaven, and he will judge the human race at the end of the world. He shed the blood of an innocent to wash away the sins of the world and established a sacred meal ritual where flesh and blood were symbolically consumed by initiates. Only one person fits that description. You know this person well - his birthday falls near the end of the year, on December 25. As should be more than obvious by now, this person can only be the one who was called...
...Mithras.
That doesn't seem right either...
Of course. That, too, is incorrect. My most sincere apologies. Beloved, do not let these slight slips of the tongue distract you from the power of the message I bring. Our religion is the one true religion. The claims of all others crumble under scrutiny, but ours and ours alone is validated, again and again, by historical fact. It was the first of its kind to make such claims as these; all others are merely impostors which sought to capitalize on its fame. Our savior cannot be mistaken for any other. He performed countless miracles on earth, miracles well attested to by bystanders. He healed the sick and the crippled, restored sight to the blind, cast out demons, yea, even raised the dead! His birth was of a virgin, foretold by an angel. While still a child, he exhibited extraordinary knowledge of religious scripture. He reformed the corrupt and worldly religions of his day. He was crucified, rose from the tomb and appeared to his disciples to prove to them his power over death, after which he ascended to Heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father. He was known as "the Son of God!" No other religion can make such claims! No other savior proved his divinity again and again to so many! No one can doubt his power or the truth of the message he brought. His memory will live forever. How can he be mistaken for anyone else? Of course, by now there is not a shred of doubt in any of your minds. You know as well as I do to whom I am referring. We must worship him, pay tribute to his memory, and focus on spreading his message of love and compassion; that, after everything, is the true meaning of Easter. Come, beloved, let us pray and honor the divine prophet whom I have just described. Let us glory in the everlasting love of...
...Apollonius of Tyana.
Wait - wait - wait - eh, you know what? Screw this.
Me again: Jesus was nobody special, just one of a long line of people and assorted other beings about whom similar claims have been made by the foolish and gullible.
An Easter Blessing
Originally posted anonymously April 15, 2001 on alt.atheism. Not by me unfortunately, I wish I'd written this.
Beloved, let us rejoice, for this is a time of celebration. In the true spirit of this season, let our hearts be gladdened, and let us pray and pay tribute to the deity in whose honor this holiday comes...
...Eastre, the Germanic goddess of spring.
No, no, wait, that's not right. Let's try again.
Please forgive our previous silly mistake. As we all well know, beloved, this holiday comes not because of any primitive druidic goddess, but rather in honor of a heroic figure, a true god among men, who was born of a mortal woman and a divine Father. As should be obvious by now, the name of this very special child was...
...Hercules.
No - hold on. That can't be right either.
Of course, of course. The hero of our story, the one whom we have gathered here to thank, was no figure of pagan Greek polytheism. He was a redeemer, one who came to earth to lift up sinful and ignorant humans, knowing full well he would pay the ultimate price for his actions, but willing to go ahead anyway out of love and compassion. As you all know, this blessed Savior was called...
...Prometheus.
No, no, give us just a minute. We'll get it right.
We all know full well who is being described here, of course. He is the one, the One, who defeated death itself and rose from the grave, in a miracle that no other would-be savior has ever been able to duplicate. By dramatically displaying his power over death, he proved once and for all that he was the single true god. And his name was...
...Osiris.
No, wait. That's not right either. Of course! What a ridiculous error to make. Our apologies.
Beloved, only one god fits this description. You know him well -- millions of you around the world today worship him. He was conceived miraculously and visited while still an infant by wise men who were guided to him by a star. He lived in a small province whose evil ruler sought to have him killed before he could rise to power, but his parents were warned by a heavenly messenger who instructed them to take their child to a neighboring district, where he would be safe from the slaughter. This miracle child would come to grow up and perform many great deeds, and the timeless and moving story of his life was recounted throughout history and still rings true today. I refer of course to...
...Krishna.
Is that right? That can't be right, can it?
No! Beloved, the god to whom I refer stands alone, unique, head and shoulders above the myths and fables of the false religions. No other savior ever claimed to duplicate his deeds. No other prophet was anything at all like him. He was the mediator between God and man, he helps departed souls ascend to heaven, and he will judge the human race at the end of the world. He shed the blood of an innocent to wash away the sins of the world and established a sacred meal ritual where flesh and blood were symbolically consumed by initiates. Only one person fits that description. You know this person well - his birthday falls near the end of the year, on December 25. As should be more than obvious by now, this person can only be the one who was called...
...Mithras.
That doesn't seem right either...
Of course. That, too, is incorrect. My most sincere apologies. Beloved, do not let these slight slips of the tongue distract you from the power of the message I bring. Our religion is the one true religion. The claims of all others crumble under scrutiny, but ours and ours alone is validated, again and again, by historical fact. It was the first of its kind to make such claims as these; all others are merely impostors which sought to capitalize on its fame. Our savior cannot be mistaken for any other. He performed countless miracles on earth, miracles well attested to by bystanders. He healed the sick and the crippled, restored sight to the blind, cast out demons, yea, even raised the dead! His birth was of a virgin, foretold by an angel. While still a child, he exhibited extraordinary knowledge of religious scripture. He reformed the corrupt and worldly religions of his day. He was crucified, rose from the tomb and appeared to his disciples to prove to them his power over death, after which he ascended to Heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father. He was known as "the Son of God!" No other religion can make such claims! No other savior proved his divinity again and again to so many! No one can doubt his power or the truth of the message he brought. His memory will live forever. How can he be mistaken for anyone else? Of course, by now there is not a shred of doubt in any of your minds. You know as well as I do to whom I am referring. We must worship him, pay tribute to his memory, and focus on spreading his message of love and compassion; that, after everything, is the true meaning of Easter. Come, beloved, let us pray and honor the divine prophet whom I have just described. Let us glory in the everlasting love of...
...Apollonius of Tyana.
Wait - wait - wait - eh, you know what? Screw this.
Me again: Jesus was nobody special, just one of a long line of people and assorted other beings about whom similar claims have been made by the foolish and gullible.
Bright Spark
Posts: 475
March 21st, 2008, 01:23 PM
Quoting MHz
Still in the OT we had Moses (a Prophet) pass authority of who was God's representative between God and people. Moses passed that onto his brother Aaron, the first High Priest to Israel. All other priests came from the same house.
John the Baptist was the last High Priest from the hose of Levi, he passed it onto Jesus, the last High Priest, period.
John the Baptist was the last High Priest from the hose of Levi, he passed it onto Jesus, the last High Priest, period.
God is True; God is the Absolute Truth; God is Truthful.
Jesus is truthful; he is straightforward; he said to follow God's commandments rather than people's traditions.
Prophet Mohammed is truthful; he did not lie all the days of his life.
God – be glorified – said in the Quran 3: 71
Jesus is truthful; he is straightforward; he said to follow God's commandments rather than people's traditions.
Prophet Mohammed is truthful; he did not lie all the days of his life.
God – be glorified – said in the Quran 3: 71
يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ لِمَ تَكْفُرُونَ بِآيَاتِ اللّهِ وَأَنتُمْ تَشْهَدُونَ
يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ لِمَ تَلْبِسُونَ الْحَقَّ بِالْبَاطِلِ وَتَكْتُمُونَ الْحَقَّ وَأَنتُمْ تَعْلَمُونَ
The explanation: (O people of the Bible [Jews and Christians], why do you disbelieve in God's revelations [included in the Quran], in spite of that you attend [Mohammed's recitation of the Quran to know that it is in conformity with the Torah or the Old Testament.]
O people of the Bible [Jews and Christians], why do you confound the truth [about Mohammed] with [your] falsehood, and conceal the truth [about his description in your Books], the while you well know [that he is truthful?] )
eanassir
http://quranandhebrewbible.t35.com
O people of the Bible [Jews and Christians], why do you confound the truth [about Mohammed] with [your] falsehood, and conceal the truth [about his description in your Books], the while you well know [that he is truthful?] )
eanassir
http://quranandhebrewbible.t35.com
Genius
Posts: 785
Location: Red Deer AB
Location: Red Deer AB
March 21st, 2008, 01:59 PM
י הֲלוֹא אָב אֶחָד לְכֻלָּנוּ, הֲלוֹא אֵל אֶחָד בְּרָאָנוּ; מַדּוּעַ, נִבְגַּד אִישׁ בְּאָחִיו--לְחַלֵּל, בְּרִית אֲבֹתֵינוּ.
10 Have we not all one father? Hath not one God created us? Why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, profaning the covenant of our fathers?
When God and Christ are said to be seated on the Throne that would seem to mean the Holy Spirit is the Throne.
י הֲלוֹא אָב אֶחָד לְכֻלָּנוּ, הֲלוֹא אֵל אֶחָד בְּרָאָנוּ; מַדּוּעַ, נִבְגַּד אִישׁ בְּאָחִיו--לְחַלֵּל, בְּרִית אֲבֹתֵינוּ.
10 Have we not all one father? Hath not one God created us? Why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, profaning the covenant of our fathers?
When God and Christ are said to be seated on the Throne that would seem to mean the Holy Spirit is the Throne.
Bright Spark
Posts: 475
March 21st, 2008, 02:41 PM
Quoting Dexter Sinister
An Easter Blessing
...Eastre, the Germanic goddess of spring.
...Hercules.
...Prometheus.
...Osiris.
...Krishna.
...Mithras.
...Apollonius of Tyana.
...Eastre, the Germanic goddess of spring.
...Hercules.
...Prometheus.
...Osiris.
...Krishna.
...Mithras.
...Apollonius of Tyana.
People are the people; their traditions are the same in every generation; their way of thinking is similar at all times.
I have read a study about something similar in the eastern communities, even among Muslims, in addition to Christians and Jews.
The same idolatrous ways have been inherited and appeared in some modified ways, even their celebrations and days of memorial.
There are days to which people, e.g. in Egypt (and they are Muslims) celebrate, when it was some Roman or Greek or Pharaonian origin, but they give it names that suit the Islamic or Christian or Jewish ways.
E.g. A day, celebrated in Egypt by the present generation, called the "sheikh" Paussi day or festival, when in fact it was the day of the goddess Paussi Cat worshipped in the Pharaonic Egypt.
E.g. The day of Nawrooz: (21 of March every year), which is originally a Magian (old Persian) day of worshipping their god of fire, and in spite of being Muslims, supposed to worship God alone. They celebrate and kindle candles and make fire, by many sects among the common people.
Of course nothing of that is originally in the Quran, and it is obviously some return of the old paganism, in some way or another.
You find also a large number of patron imams and sheikhs, to whom they resort to protect them and cure them … etc. This in almost every town and city, in spite of that the first word in the Islam is: No god but God, to Whom they should resort in all their needs.
This of course is similar to the way of Christians and Jews.
Jews sanctify the shrines of the graves of many prophets: like Prophet Ezekiel.
Christians are well-known in their enthusiasm about Jesus and the other saints, whom they call: Patron Saints. To every career there is a patron saint; to every town there is its particular saint to protect them … etc.
http://saints.sqpn.com/indexsnt.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patron_saint
Therefore, the old paganism, polytheism and idolatry appeared in the present time but in some other names.
This is in spite of the fact that the teachings of Moses, Jesus and Mohammed were strict that people should serve God alone and depend on Him alone, and in spite of that Jesus said plainly and very frequently that he is the son of man and that Mohammed is the servant of God and His apostle.
This is in the Quran 11: 109
I have read a study about something similar in the eastern communities, even among Muslims, in addition to Christians and Jews.
The same idolatrous ways have been inherited and appeared in some modified ways, even their celebrations and days of memorial.
There are days to which people, e.g. in Egypt (and they are Muslims) celebrate, when it was some Roman or Greek or Pharaonian origin, but they give it names that suit the Islamic or Christian or Jewish ways.
E.g. A day, celebrated in Egypt by the present generation, called the "sheikh" Paussi day or festival, when in fact it was the day of the goddess Paussi Cat worshipped in the Pharaonic Egypt.
E.g. The day of Nawrooz: (21 of March every year), which is originally a Magian (old Persian) day of worshipping their god of fire, and in spite of being Muslims, supposed to worship God alone. They celebrate and kindle candles and make fire, by many sects among the common people.
Of course nothing of that is originally in the Quran, and it is obviously some return of the old paganism, in some way or another.
You find also a large number of patron imams and sheikhs, to whom they resort to protect them and cure them … etc. This in almost every town and city, in spite of that the first word in the Islam is: No god but God, to Whom they should resort in all their needs.
This of course is similar to the way of Christians and Jews.
Jews sanctify the shrines of the graves of many prophets: like Prophet Ezekiel.
Christians are well-known in their enthusiasm about Jesus and the other saints, whom they call: Patron Saints. To every career there is a patron saint; to every town there is its particular saint to protect them … etc.
http://saints.sqpn.com/indexsnt.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patron_saint
Therefore, the old paganism, polytheism and idolatry appeared in the present time but in some other names.
This is in spite of the fact that the teachings of Moses, Jesus and Mohammed were strict that people should serve God alone and depend on Him alone, and in spite of that Jesus said plainly and very frequently that he is the son of man and that Mohammed is the servant of God and His apostle.
This is in the Quran 11: 109
فَلاَ تَكُ فِي مِرْيَةٍ مِّمَّا يَعْبُدُ هَؤُلاء مَا يَعْبُدُونَ إِلاَّ كَمَا يَعْبُدُ آبَاؤُهُم مِّن قَبْلُ وَإِنَّا لَمُوَفُّوهُمْ نَصِيبَهُمْ غَيْرَ مَنقُوصٍ
The explanation:
(Be not then in doubt as to what these [associaters] worship.
They worship only [the idols] that their fathers worshipped aforetime.
And We will give them their full [Worldly] portion without [the least] reduction. [but they will have no portion in the next world].)
eanassir
http://quranandhebrewbible.t35.com
(Be not then in doubt as to what these [associaters] worship.
They worship only [the idols] that their fathers worshipped aforetime.
And We will give them their full [Worldly] portion without [the least] reduction. [but they will have no portion in the next world].)
eanassir
http://quranandhebrewbible.t35.com
Bright Spark
Posts: 475
March 21st, 2008, 03:19 PM
The explanation: (It is [God] Who created the heavens and the earth in six days [: six thousand years], and His throne had been upon the water [vapor] …)
But the righteous people and the prophets will be in the neighbourhood of God in Paradise, under the Throne, and their Lord is above them over His throne of Glory.
The Throne
eanassir
http://quranandhebrewbible.t35.com
http://universeandquran.741.com
Quoting MHz
י הֲלוֹא אָב אֶחָד לְכֻלָּנוּ, הֲלוֹא אֵל אֶחָד בְּרָאָנוּ; מַדּוּעַ, נִבְגַּד אִישׁ בְּאָחִיו--לְחַלֵּל, בְּרִית אֲבֹתֵינוּ.
10 Have we not all one father? Hath not one God created us? Why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, profaning the covenant of our fathers?
When God and Christ are said to be seated on the Throne that would seem to mean the Holy Spirit is the Throne.
10 Have we not all one father? Hath not one God created us? Why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, profaning the covenant of our fathers?
When God and Christ are said to be seated on the Throne that would seem to mean the Holy Spirit is the Throne.
The created being, whosoever be, cannot be like the Creator; and there is no way of comparison.
The "Throne" of the Lord, is called in the Psalms of David: "The heaven of heavens".
[“Sing to God, O kingdoms of the earth: sing praise to the Lord. Sing to God Who mounted above the heaven of heavens.” [Psalm 67: 33-34: a psalm of canticle for David himself]
In the Quran 11: 7The "Throne" of the Lord, is called in the Psalms of David: "The heaven of heavens".
[“Sing to God, O kingdoms of the earth: sing praise to the Lord. Sing to God Who mounted above the heaven of heavens.” [Psalm 67: 33-34: a psalm of canticle for David himself]
(و هوَ الذي خَلقَ السماواتِ و الأرضَ في ستّةِ أيّامٍ و كانَ عرشُهُ على الماءِ ...)
But the righteous people and the prophets will be in the neighbourhood of God in Paradise, under the Throne, and their Lord is above them over His throne of Glory.
The Throne
eanassir
http://quranandhebrewbible.t35.com
http://universeandquran.741.com
Bright Spark
Posts: 475
March 21st, 2008, 03:33 PM
Quoting Dexter Sinister
Exactly. And what makes you think you've got it right?
[/left]
[/left]
This is in the Quran 6: 161
قُلْ إِنَّنِي هَدَانِي رَبِّي إِلَى صِرَاطٍ مُّسْتَقِيمٍ دِينًا قِيَمًا مِّلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ
The explanation: (Say [to them]: "As for me, my Lord has guided me to a 'straight and standard' path: the religion of [messengers who were] guardians [on their followers]; the religious way of Abraham [the monotheist, who was] exclusively devoted [to God]; and was not one of the associaters.")
eanassir
http://quranandhebrewbible.t35.com
eanassir
http://quranandhebrewbible.t35.com
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 3,311
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
March 21st, 2008, 04:33 PM
So, you're right because it says so in the Quran, and the Quran is right because it says so in the Quran? That's not valid logic.
So, you're right because it says so in the Quran, and the Quran is right because it says so in the Quran? That's not valid logic.
Bright Spark
Posts: 475
March 22nd, 2008, 02:16 AM
Quoting Dexter Sinister
So, you're right because it says so in the Quran, and the Quran is right because it says so in the Quran? That's not valid logic.
God – be glorified – said in the Quran 6: 149
The explanation: (Say: "To God belongs the conclusive evidence; for had He willed He could have guided you all.")
The explanation: (Say: "To God belongs the conclusive evidence; for had He willed He could have guided you all.")
The interpretation by the late Mohammed-Ali Hassan:
>> (Say: "To God belongs the conclusive evidence) against you: about the correctness of my words and the falsehood of your words: it is the heavenly books present nowadays like the Torah (or the Law), in which God forbade the worship of the angels who are in heavens, and the humans and the demons who are on the earth, and all creatures: [animate or] inanimate and the plant, the animal and man, even the animals that are under the water; then the Quran came to confirm all that.
>> (Say: "To God belongs the conclusive evidence) against you: about the correctness of my words and the falsehood of your words: it is the heavenly books present nowadays like the Torah (or the Law), in which God forbade the worship of the angels who are in heavens, and the humans and the demons who are on the earth, and all creatures: [animate or] inanimate and the plant, the animal and man, even the animals that are under the water; then the Quran came to confirm all that.
The cattle [like the camel] which you forbade eating its meat: God did not forbid that neither in the Torah nor in the Quran; but this was only according to your desires, and as an imitation to your forefathers.
Moreover, it has been evident, in the Torah and the Quran, the fallacy of your claims that the angels will intercede for your behalf.
>> (for had He [: God] willed, He could have guided you all.") but you do not deserve the guidance; because you are wrong-doers: you wrong the needy, and trespass the rights of the weak.
eanassir
http://quranandhebrewbible.t35.com
http://quranandhebrewbible.t35.com
