Time Out
Posts: 360 
Location: The desolate but charming outback of the prairies.
Location: The desolate but charming outback of the prairies.
March 23rd, 2008, 03:09 PM
Do enjoy yer Christain Easter whatever, and I do hope ya got enough mustard for those weenies!!
Quoting McCaulley
I'm used to chatting with Canadians. They understand issues and aren't generally living in make believe worlds, or swayed by the silliness coming from south of our border. Or having their homes foreclosed en masse.
i've got to go now...to celebrate Easter which is a Christian holiday by the way, so ill chat with you later mrgrumpy
Do enjoy yer Christain Easter whatever, and I do hope ya got enough mustard for those weenies!!
Time Out
Posts: 360
Location: The desolate but charming outback of the prairies.
Location: The desolate but charming outback of the prairies.
March 23rd, 2008, 03:46 PM
Quoting mrgrumpy
Important to do follow-up - which was unsurprisingly missing to this post...?
Did someone say the Nazi's were atheists?
"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator:by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord..."
Adolph Hitler (Mein Kampf) Chapter 2
"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator:by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord..."
Adolph Hitler (Mein Kampf) Chapter 2
Genius
Posts: 821 
Location: Red Deer AB
Location: Red Deer AB
March 23rd, 2008, 04:01 PM
Actually it was answered in the very next post, how did you miss it twice?
"March 17th, 2008, 07:43 PM
No me, I believe I said they read material written by an atheist, one who was apparently abused by the Church in his younger years.....hmmm......you aren't planning on writing any political material, or running for public office, are you?"
Actually it was answered in the very next post, how did you miss it twice?
"March 17th, 2008, 07:43 PM
No me, I believe I said they read material written by an atheist, one who was apparently abused by the Church in his younger years.....hmmm......you aren't planning on writing any political material, or running for public office, are you?"
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,719 
Location: Vancouver Island
Location: Vancouver Island
March 23rd, 2008, 04:15 PM
and children actually have to obey and listen to adults tell them that, if they don't behave in a certain way they will go to hell. That, to me is child abuse. I remember
the fear I felt as a child in catholic church/school when I was taught things like that,
until I reached an age where my intelligence overtook that teaching, and my logic and
smarts assured me that my own ideas were much more normal and healthy.
Quoting mrgrumpy
Unbelievable, truly unbelievable, that is the way I feel when I read such posts,
My goodness, such puffed up certainty that you "have proven something", when at best you have given us another fairy tale regurgitation of one of the Genesis stories - even those are contradictory...I particularly like your excited statement "because it's true''... this reminds me of a child's temper tantrum insisting that a fluffy Easter Bunny REALLY DID leave those eggs under the bed.
Does all this puffed up certainty that fairy tales can be true have any significance for a poster under the US flag icon insisting that Dubya is just the best darn thing since fuel injection even though the poor dim wit invaded a country that had nothing to do with 9/11?
Does all this puffed up certainty that fairy tales can be true have any significance for a poster under the US flag icon insisting that Dubya is just the best darn thing since fuel injection even though the poor dim wit invaded a country that had nothing to do with 9/11?
and children actually have to obey and listen to adults tell them that, if they don't behave in a certain way they will go to hell. That, to me is child abuse. I remember
the fear I felt as a child in catholic church/school when I was taught things like that,
until I reached an age where my intelligence overtook that teaching, and my logic and
smarts assured me that my own ideas were much more normal and healthy.
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,905
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
March 23rd, 2008, 05:54 PM
I was raised a Catholic and believe you me, the fear of hell was a real and which many times kept me in check.
As I grew older the same fear remained but with a question mark.
I converted to a Baptist of which my major education in the bible begun.
Hell still being a major issue of contention.
Understanding hell was my quest because my inner thoughts led me to believe that there was more to hell then what I was taught.
I have since gained understanding of hell and the fear of it is no longer there.
From that point on, I never condemn anyone to going to hell because they don't believe as I do, or even if they don't believe in God.
Because of the word hell and all that it was made out to be, the many false teaching about God, I never wavered from my faith in God, but instead became stronger in faith.
Yes, I had serious problems with the stories of Israel killing off cities of people as they went into the promised land as commanded by God, so it reads.
What I failed to see is how those stories related to the spiritual message it gives.
In order to enter the promised land (Promised land is the land of rest, a place where God is found and peace of heart) there must be killing away (peeling away, a better choice of words) of the existing worldliness that kept us bondage to the world and neglect of God.
The message is very graphic in word, but the meaning is very precise in the spiritual to mean the same thing.
Traveling through the wilderness (Way of escape through through trials and tribulations as knowledge is gained of the true God) is the journey out of the land of bondage (Egypt which was slavery to).
The number 40 is a probationary number as Moses also had 3 sets of 40's in His journey.
Because we go through hell (Wilderness) we either learn who the true God is, or we learn to reject Him all together.
The ones who reject Him don't make it to the promised land. (Again, the promised land is a place where the soul rests, rests in the comfort of the almighty, where peace in times of trouble is taken in stride with the hopes of a better life after this one.)
So, if one bad experiences in life due to religious people, graphic bible stories, and or no answers to any or all of your supposed prayers, then one is still considered to be in the wilderness journey of life.
That is what all those stories depict, and though some of them may have happened for real, the message is still all the same spiritually.
If one can not see spiritually, then the message in those stories can not mean nothing more than what it says.
Understanding has to be forthcoming while we are on the wilderness journey, for the very difficulties of life, the hardships, the disasters of human relationships and of nature, are all part of the learning.
God knows full well the sufferings, for He Him self made the playing field along with all the rules.
That is why His compassion is so great that nothing we do can stain it.
Think for a moment.................................of the vastness of emptiness as something, but what, (Thinking scientifically) if it were not for God, vastness,(Spiritual message) is all there would be!
In other words, this world apart from God is nothing but a vastness of emptiness, for without God, this life would be as if we had never existed.
Peace>>>AJ
I was raised a Catholic and believe you me, the fear of hell was a real and which many times kept me in check.
As I grew older the same fear remained but with a question mark.
I converted to a Baptist of which my major education in the bible begun.
Hell still being a major issue of contention.
Understanding hell was my quest because my inner thoughts led me to believe that there was more to hell then what I was taught.
I have since gained understanding of hell and the fear of it is no longer there.
From that point on, I never condemn anyone to going to hell because they don't believe as I do, or even if they don't believe in God.
Because of the word hell and all that it was made out to be, the many false teaching about God, I never wavered from my faith in God, but instead became stronger in faith.
Yes, I had serious problems with the stories of Israel killing off cities of people as they went into the promised land as commanded by God, so it reads.
What I failed to see is how those stories related to the spiritual message it gives.
In order to enter the promised land (Promised land is the land of rest, a place where God is found and peace of heart) there must be killing away (peeling away, a better choice of words) of the existing worldliness that kept us bondage to the world and neglect of God.
The message is very graphic in word, but the meaning is very precise in the spiritual to mean the same thing.
Traveling through the wilderness (Way of escape through through trials and tribulations as knowledge is gained of the true God) is the journey out of the land of bondage (Egypt which was slavery to).
The number 40 is a probationary number as Moses also had 3 sets of 40's in His journey.
Because we go through hell (Wilderness) we either learn who the true God is, or we learn to reject Him all together.
The ones who reject Him don't make it to the promised land. (Again, the promised land is a place where the soul rests, rests in the comfort of the almighty, where peace in times of trouble is taken in stride with the hopes of a better life after this one.)
So, if one bad experiences in life due to religious people, graphic bible stories, and or no answers to any or all of your supposed prayers, then one is still considered to be in the wilderness journey of life.
That is what all those stories depict, and though some of them may have happened for real, the message is still all the same spiritually.
If one can not see spiritually, then the message in those stories can not mean nothing more than what it says.
Understanding has to be forthcoming while we are on the wilderness journey, for the very difficulties of life, the hardships, the disasters of human relationships and of nature, are all part of the learning.
God knows full well the sufferings, for He Him self made the playing field along with all the rules.
That is why His compassion is so great that nothing we do can stain it.
Think for a moment.................................of the vastness of emptiness as something, but what, (Thinking scientifically) if it were not for God, vastness,(Spiritual message) is all there would be!
In other words, this world apart from God is nothing but a vastness of emptiness, for without God, this life would be as if we had never existed.
Peace>>>AJ
Member
Posts: 102
Location: Pennsylvania
Location: Pennsylvania
March 23rd, 2008, 07:56 PM
Okay, ive calmed down and i just want you to present me with some facts that will disprove what i have spent some time trying to prove. You have still not said anything to disprove that God exists so if i haven't proven anything and you haven't proven anything then neither of us have proven we are right although i,ve tried. I would now like to see some proof from your side
Okay, ive calmed down and i just want you to present me with some facts that will disprove what i have spent some time trying to prove. You have still not said anything to disprove that God exists so if i haven't proven anything and you haven't proven anything then neither of us have proven we are right although i,ve tried. I would now like to see some proof from your side
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,719
Location: Vancouver Island
Location: Vancouver Island
March 23rd, 2008, 07:57 PM
have chosen seems to be the right path for you.
Not for me, and without a belief in god, I don't see a waste land, or a wasted life, or
a waste of time or a waste of anything. I see freedom of thought for myself, and true happiness
on this earth, and I am not bound to a god at all.
BUT, there are some on this forum that would look down on me, as not moral, or not
deserving of anything, and, I will go to hell, because I am not a believer, and to them I say, if you truly
do believe in a god, who is suppose to love ALL, then when you judge me, for who I am
you are betraying your own god, who you believe in.
Quoting look3467
A.J., you are obviously very happy in your journey through life, and the path you
I was raised a Catholic and believe you me, the fear of hell was a real and which many times kept me in check.
As I grew older the same fear remained but with a question mark.
SoGod knows full well the sufferings, for He Him self made the playing field along with all the rules.
In other words, this world apart from God is nothing but a vastness of emptiness, for without God, this life would be as if we had never existed.
Peace>>>AJ
As I grew older the same fear remained but with a question mark.
SoGod knows full well the sufferings, for He Him self made the playing field along with all the rules.
In other words, this world apart from God is nothing but a vastness of emptiness, for without God, this life would be as if we had never existed.
Peace>>>AJ
have chosen seems to be the right path for you.
Not for me, and without a belief in god, I don't see a waste land, or a wasted life, or
a waste of time or a waste of anything. I see freedom of thought for myself, and true happiness
on this earth, and I am not bound to a god at all.
BUT, there are some on this forum that would look down on me, as not moral, or not
deserving of anything, and, I will go to hell, because I am not a believer, and to them I say, if you truly
do believe in a god, who is suppose to love ALL, then when you judge me, for who I am
you are betraying your own god, who you believe in.
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,719
Location: Vancouver Island
Location: Vancouver Island
March 23rd, 2008, 08:01 PM
own views, which might not be like yours, will do the same, that is life.
Quoting McCaulley
Good for you, I commend you for doing so, but at the same time, those who have their
By the way i am a fifteen year-old raised in a Christian family and i will continue to defend my christian values and beliefs
own views, which might not be like yours, will do the same, that is life.
Member
Posts: 102
Location: Pennsylvania
Location: Pennsylvania
March 23rd, 2008, 08:02 PM
You get to heaven by belief or faith in a God that you cannot physically see. Lutherans believe that faith in the Lord alone will get you to heaven while Catholics believe you also need to complete deeds or works, in other words Christian actions to help your fellow man and try to help them become Christians and believe in our Lord and Savior
You get to heaven by belief or faith in a God that you cannot physically see. Lutherans believe that faith in the Lord alone will get you to heaven while Catholics believe you also need to complete deeds or works, in other words Christian actions to help your fellow man and try to help them become Christians and believe in our Lord and Savior
Member
Posts: 102
Location: Pennsylvania
Location: Pennsylvania
March 23rd, 2008, 08:09 PM
And i respect your decisions but it is my duty as a Christian to defend my faith and to try and bring other people into the faith because the bible states that "God rejioceth more for the lost sheep found again than for the 99 whom were never lost"
And i respect your decisions but it is my duty as a Christian to defend my faith and to try and bring other people into the faith because the bible states that "God rejioceth more for the lost sheep found again than for the 99 whom were never lost"
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,612
March 23rd, 2008, 08:13 PM
Look3467
Never mind the fear of Hell! You should be more fearful of dropping the soap if you're using the church's showers.
Your beliefs teach you to love each other and explain to me how the abuse and generations of mistreatement to women and children actualize this idea?
Love one another is a wonderful sentiment, it's too bad that the RC church (and others) use this sentiment as device for their self-interest. And by the way, you don't need anyone to tell you to love one another if you understand what your life means and what all life means.
Think E=MC2
Look3467
Never mind the fear of Hell! You should be more fearful of dropping the soap if you're using the church's showers.
Your beliefs teach you to love each other and explain to me how the abuse and generations of mistreatement to women and children actualize this idea?
Love one another is a wonderful sentiment, it's too bad that the RC church (and others) use this sentiment as device for their self-interest. And by the way, you don't need anyone to tell you to love one another if you understand what your life means and what all life means.
Think E=MC2
Genius
Posts: 821
Location: Red Deer AB
Location: Red Deer AB
March 23rd, 2008, 08:51 PM
The fire in hell is eternal. Time spent there is not eternal. During that time all people are in 1 of 3 places, alive ( going back to Adam, certain qualifications needed), in death ( those who did not qualify for the 1st group, they are sound asleep and they are released from death at the GWT), the worst of man ( going back to Adam). Different from death in that these are aware of where they are, and of who put them there. These are basically ones who thought they were stronger than God, even Satan is there in plain sight.
God sent Jonah to that place for a few days. After that Jonah did what God asked of him. He didn't like doing it but it was better than the alternative. In Jonah's case it worked out fine because the people listened, so Jonah's message didn't have the results Jonah expected.
Though fear doesn't have to be your #1 reason for being a believer you shouldn't lose sight that our death is not a barrier to him, it is to Satan, after he kills your body he can do nothing more to you. That is not so with God.
Quoting look3467
Children don't have a chance to ever find themselves in hell, parents certainly can, the ones who taught the parents can certainly end up in hell. Under Christian rules a child should be able to comment on a parent's behavior, or a Church's behavior as being capable of getting that person a trip to hell.
I was raised a Catholic and believe you me, the fear of hell was a real and which many times kept me in check.
Quoting look3467
Hopefully that included reading all the relevant verses in the NT and the verses about prison in the OT, some are about death and others are about hell.
As I grew older the same fear remained but with a question mark.
Quoting look3467
Is hell absent? It is a little harder to get into hell than most of what I have heard from some 'so called experts'. Nor is it as long as some pretend it is.
I converted to a Baptist of which my major education in the bible begun.
Quoting look3467
It is a temporary prison for those will be there for the 1,000 years.
Hell still being a major issue of contention.
The fire in hell is eternal. Time spent there is not eternal. During that time all people are in 1 of 3 places, alive ( going back to Adam, certain qualifications needed), in death ( those who did not qualify for the 1st group, they are sound asleep and they are released from death at the GWT), the worst of man ( going back to Adam). Different from death in that these are aware of where they are, and of who put them there. These are basically ones who thought they were stronger than God, even Satan is there in plain sight.
God sent Jonah to that place for a few days. After that Jonah did what God asked of him. He didn't like doing it but it was better than the alternative. In Jonah's case it worked out fine because the people listened, so Jonah's message didn't have the results Jonah expected.
Quoting look3467
Or in your particular case 'less'. It wouldn't surprise me that a lot that claim to be Christians will end up there. His return means those that say they are first to be separated, then unbelievers. If death seals up past sins, so does being in hell. When the ones are made alive at Judgment Day they are standing there in clean clothes.
Understanding hell was my quest because my inner thoughts led me to believe that there was more to hell then what I was taught.
Quoting look3467
The Jews also don't fear hell, they think they are exempt from it, to some extent that is true, all Israel is alive for the 1,000 years. Jesus is said to have the keys before the 144,000 are sealed. I don't see anything to indicate they wouldn't be able to spend some time there should they deserve that place, like the ones from the temple especially. In that place a few days would be as bad as the full 1,000.
I have since gained understanding of hell and the fear of it is no longer there.
Quoting look3467
Do you think the last ones in Matthew 25 are exempt from hell?
From that point on, I never condemn anyone to going to hell because they don't believe as I do, or even if they don't believe in God.
Quoting look3467
Hell is like a dustpan, when God sweeps the earth only the wicked end up in the dust-pan. That dust is no discarded, it is put in a place for a little bit of time.
Because of the word hell and all that it was made out to be, the many false teaching about God, I never wavered from my faith in God, but instead became stronger in faith.
Though fear doesn't have to be your #1 reason for being a believer you shouldn't lose sight that our death is not a barrier to him, it is to Satan, after he kills your body he can do nothing more to you. That is not so with God.
Quoting look3467
Did you ever do a 'family-tree' type of thing for those people, most can be traced back to one of Noah's sons. Since most were related and some were called giants it is more than possible that the ones being killed were not pacifists when it came to inflicting violence on others. At least when God took land it was from the strongest, not the weakest.
Yes, I had serious problems with the stories of Israel killing off cities of people as they went into the promised land as commanded by God, so it reads.
Quoting look3467
It doesn't have one, the lesson is, if God has to kick some ass He will, wiping out the giants was one such time. Taking female captive and taking them for wives helps increase numbers.
What I failed to see is how those stories related to the spiritual message it gives.
Quoting look3467
He already set the boundaries for the first piece of land He will claim, moving the ones He doesn't want there is part of claiming the land.
In order to enter the promised land (Promised land is the land of rest, a place where God is found and peace of heart) there must be killing away (peeling away, a better choice of words) of the existing worldliness that kept us bondage to the world and neglect of God.
Quoting look3467
His words are very graphic for a lot of different subjects, not just hell. It is also probably one of the least covered subjects.
The message is very graphic in word, but the meaning is very precise in the spiritual to mean the same thing.
Quoting look3467
It's one thing to not get caught up in things that are false promises of finding enjoyment, it is quite another to be able to look around and not see anybody caught up in those things.
Traveling through the wilderness (Way of escape through through trials and tribulations as knowledge is gained of the true God) is the journey out of the land of bondage (Egypt which was slavery to).
Quoting look3467
The 5th trump is a fairly good opening description of hell, nobody is at that point of torment yet>
Because we go through hell (Wilderness) we either learn who the true God is, or we learn to reject Him all together.
Quoting look3467
Some are there because a certain number has already been determined to be there. That doesn't mean they are exempt from being alive for the new earth.
The ones who reject Him don't make it to the promised land. (Again, the promised land is a place where the soul rests, rests in the comfort of the almighty, where peace in times of trouble is taken in stride with the hopes of a better life after this one.)
Quoting look3467
Even a believer can still hit their finger with a hammer, and it hurts just as much.
So, if one bad experiences in life due to religious people, graphic bible stories, and or no answers to any or all of your supposed prayers, then one is still considered to be in the wilderness journey of life.
Quoting look3467
A parable is a spiritual message, doing some landscaping is just that, moving physical things around.
That is what all those stories depict, and though some of them may have happened for real, the message is still all the same spiritually.
Quoting look3467
A spiritual resurrection leaves a lot of dead people still in the ground, as one example.
If one can not see spiritually, then the message in those stories can not mean nothing more than what it says.
Quoting look3467
Such is life.
Understanding has to be forthcoming while we are on the wilderness journey, for the very difficulties of life, the hardships, the disasters of human relationships and of nature, are all part of the learning.
Quoting look3467
I don't think it is God when as soon as the gas price goes up I also start hitting more red lights.
God knows full well the sufferings, for He Him self made the playing field along with all the rules.
Quoting look3467
Somebody sure stained His name.
That is why His compassion is so great that nothing we do can stain it.
Genius
Posts: 821
Location: Red Deer AB
Location: Red Deer AB
March 23rd, 2008, 08:56 PM
Quoting McCaulley
Follow the body count as "Christianity' traveled around the world, seems like the priests traveled with some very nasty people
Could you please explain to me where centuries of abuse towards women and children occured? i have no memory of this ever existing
