Knows No Bounds
Posts: 3,399 
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
March 3rd, 2008, 01:42 AM
Quoting look3467
The wonderful works of god, eh? Want to talk about guinea worms, tetanus, diphtheria, pertussis, smallpox, ichneumon wasps, the plague, elephantiasis, HIV/AIDS, lupus...? Take a closer look, it's not that wonderful, it's full of avoidable pain and suffering and disease and early death that only our own science and technology shields some of us from. I don't see the hand of a benevolent deity in any of it, what I see is the undirected working out of natural forces and heroic but unevenly and haphazardly applied human knowledge that alleviates some of it for a fortunate few of us in the so-called developed world.
I can see the wonderful works of God in all of His creation.
A modern nomad
Posts: 1,118
Location: Berlin, Germany
Location: Berlin, Germany
March 3rd, 2008, 07:10 AM
A doe is killed and eaten by a wolf, the fawn survives by hiding but slowly starves to death. That is nature, indifferent and impartial. Had the wolf been a human we would call the same situation cruel, some might say evil, even.
To me, it is just unconsciously indifferent. Impartial. The very definition of fairness in a morally subjective life: there is no malicious intent nor conscious ignorance. But God is not supposed to be impartial or indifferent. In human life I see the fairness of nature and the cruelty of humans against their own kind. I never see any intervention except that of humans trying to prevent human cruelty and natural indifference. That is just human nature, not christianity.
A doe is killed and eaten by a wolf, the fawn survives by hiding but slowly starves to death. That is nature, indifferent and impartial. Had the wolf been a human we would call the same situation cruel, some might say evil, even.
To me, it is just unconsciously indifferent. Impartial. The very definition of fairness in a morally subjective life: there is no malicious intent nor conscious ignorance. But God is not supposed to be impartial or indifferent. In human life I see the fairness of nature and the cruelty of humans against their own kind. I never see any intervention except that of humans trying to prevent human cruelty and natural indifference. That is just human nature, not christianity.
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,902
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
March 3rd, 2008, 11:42 AM
Let me reply to MHz request and then to yours Dexter.
My avatar displays the arm of God and the arm of mankind. The sea is a metaphor for people, or a sea of people.
What I see in it is mankind attempting to hold on to Gods arm, but in despair, weakness looses hope in its own ability to hold on, looses its grip, then God who is full of hope, life and is our strength, holds on to us.
Without God surety, we are without hope.
As for your avatar, well, at first glance, I see death, not hope. Thought you mean well by what you believe it is, other than that, I don't have anything else to say about it.
Where as mine, there is hope because the one holding on is not man, but God.
My message is very simple and very clear, with no elaborate explanations, technical expertises, eloquent words, but simply, that God loves us and will save us from this environment.
Which leads me to my next post to give a response to Dexter's question.
Peace>>>AJ
Let me reply to MHz request and then to yours Dexter.
My avatar displays the arm of God and the arm of mankind. The sea is a metaphor for people, or a sea of people.
What I see in it is mankind attempting to hold on to Gods arm, but in despair, weakness looses hope in its own ability to hold on, looses its grip, then God who is full of hope, life and is our strength, holds on to us.
Without God surety, we are without hope.
As for your avatar, well, at first glance, I see death, not hope. Thought you mean well by what you believe it is, other than that, I don't have anything else to say about it.
Where as mine, there is hope because the one holding on is not man, but God.
My message is very simple and very clear, with no elaborate explanations, technical expertises, eloquent words, but simply, that God loves us and will save us from this environment.
Which leads me to my next post to give a response to Dexter's question.
Peace>>>AJ
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,902
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
March 3rd, 2008, 12:08 PM
Then mankind, is placed into this environment, not willingly, as I alluded to in previous other posts, but will reference that scripture here again,
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Those two underlined phrases says it all.
The test is in the existence of flesh.
Recall reading the story in Genesis that the earth is cursed? So then mankind is also cursed by having to exist in that cursed environment.
But, don't think that God is not just and fair, because in order for a soul to learn discipline, to be like as God, a must prove to it's godly attributes, which is to know good and evil.
So that in the midst of suffering, love is perfected. Unfortunately, for some, hate (or evil) is perfected, but still, God has made allowances for that too.
God did not subject us to something He Him self would not do, because He did subject Himself as a son of man, first, and then as the Son of God, endured not only His own sufferings, but that of the whole worlds to boot!
He has taken the sting of eternal separation (Death of the spirit) as a penalty for being born in the flesh, from us by He paying the price of the first part of that verse above.
The result? Is that we are given the freedom to live as we see fit, as like god, yet without penalty of eternal death.
You still are accountable here for your own actions.
As for all the deceases, pestilences, plagues, storms and the kind, are but a natural occurrences, triggered by the laws of nature, set in motion.
Now my belief is that God is able to delay, defer those laws based on our national spiritual condition.
Otherwise, regardless of who or what we are, time and chance happens to all.
On that, there is no discrimination.
Peace>>>AJ
Quoting Dexter Sinister
The whole foundation of earth's existence is to test mankind. The laws of nature are set into place for everything to function as designed.
The wonderful works of god, eh? Want to talk about guinea worms, tetanus, diphtheria, pertussis, smallpox, ichneumon wasps, the plague, elephantiasis, HIV/AIDS, lupus...? Take a closer look, it's not that wonderful, it's full of avoidable pain and suffering and disease and early death that only our own science and technology shields some of us from. I don't see the hand of a benevolent deity in any of it, what I see is the undirected working out of natural forces and heroic but unevenly and haphazardly applied human knowledge that alleviates some of it for a fortunate few of us in the so-called developed world.
Then mankind, is placed into this environment, not willingly, as I alluded to in previous other posts, but will reference that scripture here again,
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Those two underlined phrases says it all.
The test is in the existence of flesh.
Recall reading the story in Genesis that the earth is cursed? So then mankind is also cursed by having to exist in that cursed environment.
But, don't think that God is not just and fair, because in order for a soul to learn discipline, to be like as God, a must prove to it's godly attributes, which is to know good and evil.
So that in the midst of suffering, love is perfected. Unfortunately, for some, hate (or evil) is perfected, but still, God has made allowances for that too.
God did not subject us to something He Him self would not do, because He did subject Himself as a son of man, first, and then as the Son of God, endured not only His own sufferings, but that of the whole worlds to boot!
He has taken the sting of eternal separation (Death of the spirit) as a penalty for being born in the flesh, from us by He paying the price of the first part of that verse above.
The result? Is that we are given the freedom to live as we see fit, as like god, yet without penalty of eternal death.
You still are accountable here for your own actions.
As for all the deceases, pestilences, plagues, storms and the kind, are but a natural occurrences, triggered by the laws of nature, set in motion.
Now my belief is that God is able to delay, defer those laws based on our national spiritual condition.
Otherwise, regardless of who or what we are, time and chance happens to all.
On that, there is no discrimination.
Peace>>>AJ
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,902
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
March 3rd, 2008, 12:25 PM
Into that environment, into that order of things, mankind is introduced.
Mankind, having been given dominion over those things:
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
We are to discover through the sciences cures for the various diseases, plagues, manage our environment responsibly and learn to manage our own self government.
Now, on top of all that, God at various times, and places has given inspiration for proper living practices, (by laws) given inspiration for inventions, discoveries for certain cures, technical discoveries and spiritual advances.
The test of time, people, determine the progressive nature of the spiritual growth in conjunction with the physical world.
My opinion of course is based on my understandings of what I have learned, experienced, and given privy to by God.
Peace>>>AJ
Quoting Niflmir
You have described the laws set into motion in the order of things.
A doe is killed and eaten by a wolf, the fawn survives by hiding but slowly starves to death. That is nature, indifferent and impartial. Had the wolf been a human we would call the same situation cruel, some might say evil, even.
To me, it is just unconsciously indifferent. Impartial. The very definition of fairness in a morally subjective life: there is no malicious intent nor conscious ignorance. But God is not supposed to be impartial or indifferent. In human life I see the fairness of nature and the cruelty of humans against their own kind. I never see any intervention except that of humans trying to prevent human cruelty and natural indifference. That is just human nature, not christianity.
To me, it is just unconsciously indifferent. Impartial. The very definition of fairness in a morally subjective life: there is no malicious intent nor conscious ignorance. But God is not supposed to be impartial or indifferent. In human life I see the fairness of nature and the cruelty of humans against their own kind. I never see any intervention except that of humans trying to prevent human cruelty and natural indifference. That is just human nature, not christianity.
Into that environment, into that order of things, mankind is introduced.
Mankind, having been given dominion over those things:
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
We are to discover through the sciences cures for the various diseases, plagues, manage our environment responsibly and learn to manage our own self government.
Now, on top of all that, God at various times, and places has given inspiration for proper living practices, (by laws) given inspiration for inventions, discoveries for certain cures, technical discoveries and spiritual advances.
The test of time, people, determine the progressive nature of the spiritual growth in conjunction with the physical world.
My opinion of course is based on my understandings of what I have learned, experienced, and given privy to by God.
Peace>>>AJ
Bright Spark
Posts: 300
Location: Edmonton
Location: Edmonton
March 3rd, 2008, 09:24 PM
A good friend of mine, who is a devout christian, has sent me a website showing what appears to be old chariot wheels, horse bones, human bones and other artifacts at the bottom of the Red Sea in a location presumed to be where Moses parted the sea. Has anyone else heard of this discovery? If so, what do you make of it? Is it real or not?
http://users.netconnect.com.au/~leedas/redsea.html
A good friend of mine, who is a devout christian, has sent me a website showing what appears to be old chariot wheels, horse bones, human bones and other artifacts at the bottom of the Red Sea in a location presumed to be where Moses parted the sea. Has anyone else heard of this discovery? If so, what do you make of it? Is it real or not?
http://users.netconnect.com.au/~leedas/redsea.html
Bright Spark
Posts: 300
Location: Edmonton
Location: Edmonton
March 3rd, 2008, 11:55 PM
Hmmm....I would have thought the christian folk would have jumped all over this if it were true. Or at least the scientific minds would have done their best to discredit the story if it were false.
I have since discovered that the hero of our story, Ron Wyatt, has been debunked in a number of other claims, like the discovery of the Ark of the Covenant, Noah's Ark, Sodom and Gomorrah and a host of other biblical sites. He's been exposed as an archaelogical fraud.
Hmmm....I would have thought the christian folk would have jumped all over this if it were true. Or at least the scientific minds would have done their best to discredit the story if it were false.
I have since discovered that the hero of our story, Ron Wyatt, has been debunked in a number of other claims, like the discovery of the Ark of the Covenant, Noah's Ark, Sodom and Gomorrah and a host of other biblical sites. He's been exposed as an archaelogical fraud.
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,902
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
March 4th, 2008, 01:28 AM
At least that was my thoughts on it.
But since you fessed up, I will give you my opinion on it.
I believe that there will be found some stories in the bible to have been true, whether they are or not, matters only to what God wants us to understand about them.
It is similar to my telling a story to illustrate a point. That story may or may not be a true story, but my point was what I wanted to convey.
The story of Jonah is one to where the illustration is about Jesus, buried in the mouth of the sepulcher, and on the 3rd day is spewed out, or resurrected.
The bible is full of such stories, which the point is to point at Jesus, by either using a real story or not.
For faith is not dependent on the reality of the story, but on the point of the story.
In order for Jesus to consume the worlds sins and render the world save from its lost condition, Jesus had to become all that the world is.
To consume something is to drink or eat it in it's entirety.
Peace>>>AJ
Quoting mt_pockets1000
I think your motive for that question was in question, rather than to give an answer to it.
Hmmm....I would have thought the christian folk would have jumped all over this if it were true. Or at least the scientific minds would have done their best to discredit the story if it were false.
I have since discovered that the hero of our story, Ron Wyatt, has been debunked in a number of other claims, like the discovery of the Ark of the Covenant, Noah's Ark, Sodom and Gomorrah and a host of other biblical sites. He's been exposed as an archaelogical fraud.
I have since discovered that the hero of our story, Ron Wyatt, has been debunked in a number of other claims, like the discovery of the Ark of the Covenant, Noah's Ark, Sodom and Gomorrah and a host of other biblical sites. He's been exposed as an archaelogical fraud.
At least that was my thoughts on it.
But since you fessed up, I will give you my opinion on it.
I believe that there will be found some stories in the bible to have been true, whether they are or not, matters only to what God wants us to understand about them.
It is similar to my telling a story to illustrate a point. That story may or may not be a true story, but my point was what I wanted to convey.
The story of Jonah is one to where the illustration is about Jesus, buried in the mouth of the sepulcher, and on the 3rd day is spewed out, or resurrected.
The bible is full of such stories, which the point is to point at Jesus, by either using a real story or not.
For faith is not dependent on the reality of the story, but on the point of the story.
In order for Jesus to consume the worlds sins and render the world save from its lost condition, Jesus had to become all that the world is.
To consume something is to drink or eat it in it's entirety.
Peace>>>AJ
Time Out
Posts: 360 
Location: The desolate but charming outback of the prairies.
Location: The desolate but charming outback of the prairies.
March 7th, 2008, 04:52 PM
For faith is not dependent on the reality of the story, but on the point of the story.
Peace>>>AJ[/quote]
Just as reality is not dependent on faith; Reality can never be clouded by superstition.
For faith is not dependent on the reality of the story, but on the point of the story.
Peace>>>AJ[/quote]
Just as reality is not dependent on faith; Reality can never be clouded by superstition.
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,902
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
March 7th, 2008, 07:04 PM
Just as reality is not dependent on faith; Reality can never be clouded by superstition.[/quote]
I will agree to your statement. But faith, which is spiritual, which can only be acted upon by the real, is the driving force of the real.
In the case of some of the stories in the bible, having faith in the point of the story, (though the story may not be real) is faith exercised.
The story of Jonah and the wale is one such story that could or could not be real, but the point of the story is that Jesus was swallowed up in hell for 3 days, and then spewed out the third day.
Now, for unbelievers, that is one story that does not cut the mustard, but to a believer, the point of that story is that because Jesus went to hell and back, acquired salvation for all mankind.
Now, on that note, I place my faith in, and thus the story becomes real to me.
Peace>>>AJ
Quoting mrgrumpy
For faith is not dependent on the reality of the story, but on the point of the story.
Peace>>>AJ
Peace>>>AJ
Just as reality is not dependent on faith; Reality can never be clouded by superstition.[/quote]
I will agree to your statement. But faith, which is spiritual, which can only be acted upon by the real, is the driving force of the real.
In the case of some of the stories in the bible, having faith in the point of the story, (though the story may not be real) is faith exercised.
The story of Jonah and the wale is one such story that could or could not be real, but the point of the story is that Jesus was swallowed up in hell for 3 days, and then spewed out the third day.
Now, for unbelievers, that is one story that does not cut the mustard, but to a believer, the point of that story is that because Jesus went to hell and back, acquired salvation for all mankind.
Now, on that note, I place my faith in, and thus the story becomes real to me.
Peace>>>AJ
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 3,399
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
March 7th, 2008, 07:06 PM
Testing to what end? The only reason to run a test is because your knowledge is limited. No omniscient being would need to run a test, he already knows the results. The idea is senseless.
Quoting look3467
That goes right by me. I heard a whooshing noise as it passed by my right ear...
The whole foundation of earth's existence is to test mankind.
Testing to what end? The only reason to run a test is because your knowledge is limited. No omniscient being would need to run a test, he already knows the results. The idea is senseless.
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,902
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
March 7th, 2008, 07:54 PM
Testing to what end, is a fair question in that without two opposing points, there is no definition.
So, which point are we going to chose, is a test.
Yes, God already knows the results as I, for He made it to be that way as a designed plan.
The results is that all souls are taken care of by God's own hand.
The other side of that is our own occupation with life here on earth that must be dealt with as a matter of testing.
"Let's see, what will I do today, maybe I'll mow the neighbor lawn for them since they are an elderly couple and can hardly walk, or maybe, I will park my car passed the point where the neighbors driveway starts just to irritate him.
Good neighbor/bad neighbor, an everyday test.
If then there is nothing to demonstrate a decision, then I can say, there is no test.
Peace>>>AJ
Quoting Dexter Sinister
That whooshing noise past your ear to me is understandable considering your views.
That goes right by me. I heard a whooshing noise as it passed by my right ear...
Testing to what end? The only reason to run a test is because your knowledge is limited. No omniscient being would need to run a test, he already knows the results. The idea is senseless.
Testing to what end? The only reason to run a test is because your knowledge is limited. No omniscient being would need to run a test, he already knows the results. The idea is senseless.
Testing to what end, is a fair question in that without two opposing points, there is no definition.
So, which point are we going to chose, is a test.
Yes, God already knows the results as I, for He made it to be that way as a designed plan.
The results is that all souls are taken care of by God's own hand.
The other side of that is our own occupation with life here on earth that must be dealt with as a matter of testing.
"Let's see, what will I do today, maybe I'll mow the neighbor lawn for them since they are an elderly couple and can hardly walk, or maybe, I will park my car passed the point where the neighbors driveway starts just to irritate him.
Good neighbor/bad neighbor, an everyday test.
If then there is nothing to demonstrate a decision, then I can say, there is no test.
Peace>>>AJ
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 3,399
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
March 7th, 2008, 09:49 PM
I don't think I understand you. In fact, I'm sure I don't understand you, and I never will until I've got you sitting across my kitchen table from me with a drink of your choice in your hand--beer, wine, scotch, tea, coffee, milk, water, whatever you like--so we can hammer a few things out. I think that'd be fun. I still probably won't understand you, but the fun is the trip, not the destination.
On the north side of me lives an ancient couple, well into their 80s, both veterans of the Second World War--he was a Lancaster pilot, she was a nurse--and I couldn't ask for better neighbours. He's got a heart condition, she's got some obscure slow-moving cancer. I don't mow their lawn, they've got some veteran's service that takes care of that for them, but I do clear the snow off their driveway and sidewalks. Their service will do that for them too, but it often takes a couple of days to get around to it, and in the meantime they're trapped in their house, and I worry about medical emergencies, so when I've got my snowblower out to clear off my driveway and sidewalks, I do theirs too. And every spring the old guy shows up at my door with a bottle of fine old scotch as a measure of thanks, because he knows that's what I like.
Does god have anything to do with that? You'd probably say yes, this is some kind of test I'm passing. So far... But it seems like just elementary ethics to me: if someone needs help you can give, then you give it, and I don't see any role for a deity in that, that's just human nature. We're social animals, we help our friends and neighbours, that's how we've survived.
I don't think I understand you. In fact, I'm sure I don't understand you, and I never will until I've got you sitting across my kitchen table from me with a drink of your choice in your hand--beer, wine, scotch, tea, coffee, milk, water, whatever you like--so we can hammer a few things out. I think that'd be fun. I still probably won't understand you, but the fun is the trip, not the destination.
On the north side of me lives an ancient couple, well into their 80s, both veterans of the Second World War--he was a Lancaster pilot, she was a nurse--and I couldn't ask for better neighbours. He's got a heart condition, she's got some obscure slow-moving cancer. I don't mow their lawn, they've got some veteran's service that takes care of that for them, but I do clear the snow off their driveway and sidewalks. Their service will do that for them too, but it often takes a couple of days to get around to it, and in the meantime they're trapped in their house, and I worry about medical emergencies, so when I've got my snowblower out to clear off my driveway and sidewalks, I do theirs too. And every spring the old guy shows up at my door with a bottle of fine old scotch as a measure of thanks, because he knows that's what I like.
Does god have anything to do with that? You'd probably say yes, this is some kind of test I'm passing. So far...
But it seems like just elementary ethics to me: if someone needs help you can give, then you give it, and I don't see any role for a deity in that, that's just human nature. We're social animals, we help our friends and neighbours, that's how we've survived.
Bright Spark
Posts: 300
Location: Edmonton
Location: Edmonton
March 7th, 2008, 11:27 PM
Anyhoo, this website stumped me for awhile and my thoughts on god and the bible were put into doubt for a short time, until I found out the truth of the matter. What baffles me is how an intelligent, seemingly well adjusted individual like my friend can be swayed by such outright trickery and how some people like Wyatt have gone to great lengths to prove the bible stories true by presenting false evidence. What gives?
Quoting look3467
I can assure you it was no test or trick question. It was legit. I don't go in for this trolling thing I see on these forums. Straight up and to the point. I did receive an email from my friend with that website attached. Whether you believe that or not is irrelevant. Like a lot of people in this world I struggle with the search for truth and honesty. Part of that search is questioning the validity of the bible.
I think your motive for that question was in question, rather than to give an answer to it.
At least that was my thoughts on it.
But since you fessed up, I will give you my opinion on it.
At least that was my thoughts on it.
But since you fessed up, I will give you my opinion on it.
Anyhoo, this website stumped me for awhile and my thoughts on god and the bible were put into doubt for a short time, until I found out the truth of the matter. What baffles me is how an intelligent, seemingly well adjusted individual like my friend can be swayed by such outright trickery and how some people like Wyatt have gone to great lengths to prove the bible stories true by presenting false evidence. What gives?
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,902
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
March 8th, 2008, 12:07 AM
If that day comes, I would surely enjoy it, and I’d drink to that to.
You know Dexter; you didn’t have to say that about you, because I knew that already. Just by the character of your posts I can tell.
I’ve grown to respect you because there were times when some posters were right down rude, but you were composed, cool and very polite.
The test is not so much a test, but a situation where one has to learn to manage ones behavior given two complete opposites to choose from.
It all stems from the heart of the individual. Evil as well as good can be born there. The good part of both choices is the one that must tame, overcome the evil side, given that we were placed in an environment conducive to evil.
So, good then is a choice that you choose to do because it is in your heart to do so, regardless of beliefs.
Look back at human history. Has it been possible for humanity to have reached a state of utopia all on its own? (An ideal and perfect place or state where everyone lives in harmony and everything is for the best)
I don’t think so. If it were so, then by now, we would have reached that state.
Human nature is an earthen vessel with earthly fleshly desires that cater only to the flesh.
There must of necessity then be something that is within the flesh that is opposite, and of greater force, if allowed, to grow to manage the desires of the flesh.
That opposite is the heart, and the heart is not one that pumps blood, but one that is a spirit heart, which is of God.
That heart is where goodness is born, that heart is what gives you the motivation to plow the snow off the neighbors walk ways.
That heart is the one that tells the lazy flesh, “do it, help thy neighbor”.
You have that God spirit heart in you, even though you may not want to recognize it, but I can see it!
Peace>>>AJ
Quote:
I don't think I understand you. In fact, I'm sure I don't understand you, and I never will until I've got you sitting across my kitchen table from me with a drink of your choice in your hand--beer, wine, scotch, tea, coffee, milk, water, whatever you like--so we can hammer a few things out. I think that'd be fun. I still probably won't understand you, but the fun is the trip, not the destination. >>>Dexter
If that day comes, I would surely enjoy it, and I’d drink to that to.
Quote:
On the north side of me lives an ancient couple, well into their 80s, both veterans of the Second World War--he was a Lancaster pilot, she was a nurse--and I couldn't ask for better neighbours. He's got a heart condition, she's got some obscure slow-moving cancer. I don't mow their lawn, they've got some veteran's service that takes care of that for them, but I do clear the snow off their driveway and sidewalks. Their service will do that for them too, but it often takes a couple of days to get around to it, and in the meantime they're trapped in their house, and I worry about medical emergencies, so when I've got my snowblower out to clear off my driveway and sidewalks, I do theirs too. And every spring the old guy shows up at my door with a bottle of fine old scotch as a measure of thanks, because he knows that's what I like. >>>Dexter
You know Dexter; you didn’t have to say that about you, because I knew that already. Just by the character of your posts I can tell.
I’ve grown to respect you because there were times when some posters were right down rude, but you were composed, cool and very polite.
The test is not so much a test, but a situation where one has to learn to manage ones behavior given two complete opposites to choose from.
It all stems from the heart of the individual. Evil as well as good can be born there. The good part of both choices is the one that must tame, overcome the evil side, given that we were placed in an environment conducive to evil.
So, good then is a choice that you choose to do because it is in your heart to do so, regardless of beliefs.
Quote:
Human nature? Does god have anything to do with that? You'd probably say yes, this is some kind of test I'm passing. So far... But it seems like just elementary ethics to me: if someone needs help you can give, then you give it, and I don't see any role for a deity in that, that's just human nature. We're social animals, we help our friends and neighbors, that's how we've survived.>>>Dexter
Look back at human history. Has it been possible for humanity to have reached a state of utopia all on its own? (An ideal and perfect place or state where everyone lives in harmony and everything is for the best)
I don’t think so. If it were so, then by now, we would have reached that state.
Human nature is an earthen vessel with earthly fleshly desires that cater only to the flesh.
There must of necessity then be something that is within the flesh that is opposite, and of greater force, if allowed, to grow to manage the desires of the flesh.
That opposite is the heart, and the heart is not one that pumps blood, but one that is a spirit heart, which is of God.
That heart is where goodness is born, that heart is what gives you the motivation to plow the snow off the neighbors walk ways.
That heart is the one that tells the lazy flesh, “do it, help thy neighbor”.
You have that God spirit heart in you, even though you may not want to recognize it, but I can see it!
Peace>>>AJ
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,902
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
March 8th, 2008, 01:24 AM
I to wonder about some proclaimed Christians, how easily they could be brain washed into believing some thing new.
Case in point was a young Sunday school teacher who thought Sunday school for quite a few years, only to wind up death in Guyana Africa in that Jim Jones massacre.
Religion, though wonderful for many, can also be deadly, if religion is used as a vehicle to do evil.
I neither believe anyone individual nor lean on any professed Christian to show me the way, but Jesus and His word guided by the Holy Spirit of revelation in me.
Yes, I listen to many, but unless it is confirmed in me by the Holy Spirit and by His word, I believe it not.
Peace>>>AJ
Quote:
An I would encourage anyone and everyone to do so to, for in so doing would either find the truth of God or not. I can assure you it was no test or trick question. It was legit. I don't go in for this trolling thing I see on these forums. Straight up and to the point. I did receive an email from my friend with that website attached. Whether you believe that or not is irrelevant. Like a lot of people in this world I struggle with the search for truth and honesty. Part of that search is questioning the validity of the bible. >>> mt_pockets1000
Quote:
Anyhoo, this website stumped me for awhile and my thoughts on god and the bible were put into doubt for a short time, until I found out the truth of the matter. What baffles me is how an intelligent, seemingly well adjusted individual like my friend can be swayed by such outright trickery and how some people like Wyatt have gone to great lengths to prove the bible stories true by presenting false evidence. What gives? >>> mt_pockets1000
I to wonder about some proclaimed Christians, how easily they could be brain washed into believing some thing new.
Case in point was a young Sunday school teacher who thought Sunday school for quite a few years, only to wind up death in Guyana Africa in that Jim Jones massacre.
Religion, though wonderful for many, can also be deadly, if religion is used as a vehicle to do evil.
I neither believe anyone individual nor lean on any professed Christian to show me the way, but Jesus and His word guided by the Holy Spirit of revelation in me.
Yes, I listen to many, but unless it is confirmed in me by the Holy Spirit and by His word, I believe it not.
Peace>>>AJ
Genius
Posts: 821
Location: Red Deer AB
Location: Red Deer AB
March 8th, 2008, 08:38 PM
Just how long would the conversation last after mixing one of those drinks with those 7+ things you listed, I'm pretty sure some of them should not even be combined under any circumstances. LOL Look is kind of like an Enochian type of Christian. 300 years of cruising the heaves with (admittedly pretty impressive beings) probably had his relatives taking care of the day-to-day things. No offense Look but somethings in Scripture are meant to be understood in full as soon as it has been read.
You guys could use a normal telephone, long distance is cheap.
You should visit, a search for apple cider vinegar, hydrogen peroxide, and MMS might make some interesting reading for a battle-field nurse.
http://www.earthclinic.com/index.html
Are you taking 'when things go wrong' into account? Even if a group is at the point of starvation, turning a person away might just prolong the inevitable. At least with sharing you can more or less go as a group and you all get to talk about how much starving sucks,
Quoting Dexter Sinister
You might be better off doing mushrooms if you are going to take a trip through Scripture with him, I don't even relate to his opinion of what most verses are meant to mean that has a hope of being understood, like being across from somebody. Scripture is meant to be read at the same rate those words could be read. Unfortunately we do not have the opportunity to have those writers sitting across from us. That would make the 'rebuttals' and 'questions' also flow as fast as a normal conversation would.
I don't think I understand you. In fact, I'm sure I don't understand you, and I never will until I've got you sitting across my kitchen table from me with a drink of your choice in your hand--beer, wine, scotch, tea, coffee, milk, water, whatever you like--so we can hammer a few things out. I think that'd be fun. I still probably won't understand you, but the fun is the trip, not the destination.
Just how long would the conversation last after mixing one of those drinks with those 7+ things you listed, I'm pretty sure some of them should not even be combined under any circumstances. LOL Look is kind of like an Enochian type of Christian. 300 years of cruising the heaves with (admittedly pretty impressive beings) probably had his relatives taking care of the day-to-day things. No offense Look but somethings in Scripture are meant to be understood in full as soon as it has been read.
You guys could use a normal telephone, long distance is cheap.
Quoting Dexter Sinister
Snowblower?? and you don't do the whole block??? (the mail-person)
On the north side of me lives an ancient couple, well into their 80s, both veterans of the Second World War--he was a Lancaster pilot, she was a nurse--and I couldn't ask for better neighbours. He's got a heart condition, she's got some obscure slow-moving cancer. I don't mow their lawn, they've got some veteran's service that takes care of that for them, but I do clear the snow off their driveway and sidewalks. Their service will do that for them too, but it often takes a couple of days to get around to it, and in the meantime they're trapped in their house, and I worry about medical emergencies, so when I've got my snowblower out to clear off my driveway and sidewalks, I do theirs too. And every spring the old guy shows up at my door with a bottle of fine old scotch as a measure of thanks, because he knows that's what I like.
You should visit, a search for apple cider vinegar, hydrogen peroxide, and MMS might make some interesting reading for a battle-field nurse.
http://www.earthclinic.com/index.html
Quoting Dexter Sinister
The deviation that Scripture takes with that is a stranger is just as important as a friend of neighbor.
Does god have anything to do with that? You'd probably say yes, this is some kind of test I'm passing. So far... But it seems like just elementary ethics to me: if someone needs help you can give, then you give it, and I don't see any role for a deity in that, that's just human nature. We're social animals, we help our friends and neighbours, that's how we've survived.
But it seems like just elementary ethics to me: if someone needs help you can give, then you give it, and I don't see any role for a deity in that, that's just human nature. We're social animals, we help our friends and neighbours, that's how we've survived.
Are you taking 'when things go wrong' into account? Even if a group is at the point of starvation, turning a person away might just prolong the inevitable. At least with sharing you can more or less go as a group and you all get to talk about how much starving sucks,
