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Location: Red Deer AB
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February 29th, 2008, 10:18 AM
An even more universal code of good conduct is the UN Human Rights Act. If it was followed to the letter life would be quite different for some people, hard to enforce breaches when the courts can't keep up with the breaches of the CCC.
Quoting
Are you referencing the texts that deal with history or the ones that deal with the prophecies that are still waiting to unfold?
The vast majority of remainder of the book is pretty irrational and unfounded.
All things considered, the whole thing could be reduced to one comment "Love thy neighbor" and I might add that one should act as if they loved their neighbor. But then, that'd be telling everyone they should be perfect. Of course, that'll never happen, so we have more uselful tombs of info such as The Canadian Criminal Code et al.
All things considered, the whole thing could be reduced to one comment "Love thy neighbor" and I might add that one should act as if they loved their neighbor. But then, that'd be telling everyone they should be perfect. Of course, that'll never happen, so we have more uselful tombs of info such as The Canadian Criminal Code et al.
An even more universal code of good conduct is the UN Human Rights Act. If it was followed to the letter life would be quite different for some people, hard to enforce breaches when the courts can't keep up with the breaches of the CCC.
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February 29th, 2008, 10:50 AM
Quoting MHz
That's exactly the kind of stuff I mean. Genesis 1:25-27 has god creating humans last, both male and female together. Genesis 2:18-22 has god creating Adam first, then forming all the animals out of the ground and bringing them to Adam to be named, then creating Eve. That's plainly what it says, and Christian apologists have to enter into elaborate circumlocutions like this to explain them away. Some go into even more elaborate detail about possible shadings of various Hebrew words and how they were translated. If god really wanted us to understand what it's about, and this really is the inerrant word of a perfect deity sending a message to mankind, it shouldn't be that hard. It is intrinsically unreasonable that a layman reading the Bible has to rely on various academic traditions of biblical scholarship like the JEPD documents and have a knowledge of ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, in order to make sense of it.
Let me shorten them up a bit.
Genesis 1, matters concerning the physical journey.
Genesis 2. matters concerning the spiritual journey.
Genesis 1, matters concerning the physical journey.
Genesis 2. matters concerning the spiritual journey.
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Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
February 29th, 2008, 11:03 AM
If what is inside our souls can be proven, prove it?
All we see is what transpires on the outside.
God works on the inside of our souls, so therefore, God can not be proven on the outside, except for good being generated from the inside first.
Here is a verse that describes the condition of the heart verses that which is outwardly, the letter, or what is written, or what is as mankind has ordained as religion.
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Circumcision is the peeling away of the foreskin revealing the head, the same similitude is the heart, where the heart of stone, as in stone tablets where the letter of the law was written,is slowly turned to hearts of flesh, or in other words, the covering that covered the heart from being live, is peeled away revealing the true heart of God in us.
All whose heart has not being peeled, circumcised by the spirit of God, have stone hearts, who will think only on the physical laws, the earthly things and or trust only in the sciences. Stone hearts are not alive with the spirit of God unless He first circumcises it.
Therefore, to prove the existence of God, is not provable to the world, but only to the individual heart, where only there can the existence of God be proven.
Those who testify of an experience with God, have proven for themselves that God exists.
But is looked on by the world as just an emotion, a mental condition, crazy or just some religious zealot.
I know without a doubt in my heart that God exists, and all I can say to the world, is by my actions.
1Pe 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
Peace>>>AJ
If what is inside our souls can be proven, prove it?
All we see is what transpires on the outside.
God works on the inside of our souls, so therefore, God can not be proven on the outside, except for good being generated from the inside first.
Here is a verse that describes the condition of the heart verses that which is outwardly, the letter, or what is written, or what is as mankind has ordained as religion.
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Circumcision is the peeling away of the foreskin revealing the head, the same similitude is the heart, where the heart of stone, as in stone tablets where the letter of the law was written,is slowly turned to hearts of flesh, or in other words, the covering that covered the heart from being live, is peeled away revealing the true heart of God in us.
All whose heart has not being peeled, circumcised by the spirit of God, have stone hearts, who will think only on the physical laws, the earthly things and or trust only in the sciences. Stone hearts are not alive with the spirit of God unless He first circumcises it.
Therefore, to prove the existence of God, is not provable to the world, but only to the individual heart, where only there can the existence of God be proven.
Those who testify of an experience with God, have proven for themselves that God exists.
But is looked on by the world as just an emotion, a mental condition, crazy or just some religious zealot.
I know without a doubt in my heart that God exists, and all I can say to the world, is by my actions.
1Pe 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
Peace>>>AJ
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Posts: 1,923
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
February 29th, 2008, 11:16 AM
The number of man is the number 6.
The day of Gods resting from all His works follows as the 7th day, meaning completion.
Now if you study to find out what day of seven, Jesus makes His appearance, you will find Him recreating the man day, the 6th day, all over again, in the spiritual world, in order to give mankind life which, prior to Jesus' appearance, all mankind was lost.
Therefore, Jesus is the second Adam.
If you can remember this one thing in your studies of the bible, is that God doubles twice before He brings things to pass, you will see that there is 3 man type days, or 3 -6's, the 3th 6 is the new creature.
You have the first man Adam 6, the second man Adam 6, and the new man Adam , or the new creature 6.
The thing was doubled and on the 3rd time it came to pass resulting in a 3rd new man, the spiritual man.
Of course, all of this is unbelievable first to the Christian, because the number 666 is evil, and then the unbeliever because the bible is nonsense any ways.
So, believe what you want, but let me caution you all, if you sow discord in this life, you will reap the same, and there is absolutely no one excluded from that process.
Peace>>>AJ
The number of man is the number 6.
The day of Gods resting from all His works follows as the 7th day, meaning completion.
Now if you study to find out what day of seven, Jesus makes His appearance, you will find Him recreating the man day, the 6th day, all over again, in the spiritual world, in order to give mankind life which, prior to Jesus' appearance, all mankind was lost.
Therefore, Jesus is the second Adam.
If you can remember this one thing in your studies of the bible, is that God doubles twice before He brings things to pass, you will see that there is 3 man type days, or 3 -6's, the 3th 6 is the new creature.
You have the first man Adam 6, the second man Adam 6, and the new man Adam , or the new creature 6.
The thing was doubled and on the 3rd time it came to pass resulting in a 3rd new man, the spiritual man.
Of course, all of this is unbelievable first to the Christian, because the number 666 is evil, and then the unbeliever because the bible is nonsense any ways.
So, believe what you want, but let me caution you all, if you sow discord in this life, you will reap the same, and there is absolutely no one excluded from that process.
Peace>>>AJ
Electoral Member
Posts: 835
Location: Red Deer AB
Location: Red Deer AB
February 29th, 2008, 12:10 PM
Ge:1 (and that little bit at the start of 2) gives the order that creation took that had everything in place by the morning of the 7th day. Does that mean that when grass was created that it was complete before the next day started? Or could it have only been complete by the end of the 6th day? Whether you believe in an 'old earth creation' (which spans the time science places on how old the earth is) or the 'young earth' view (which means a much shorter time is involved) neither says that grass was created as a 'poof event', both allow for the first few blades of grass existing and those expanding their territory as the days progressed. The only difference would be the rate at which they expanded their territory. The creation of man in Ch:1 would seem to be both at the same time. Maybe it is only saying that by the end of the 6th day there was man and woman and everything that was involved in creation was made. That leaves us with "X" amount of information. The next chapter add some details about the same subject that wasn't needed for explaining how the physical world was created.
If you would agree that the things created started at some point on the earth and expanded their territory then it is possible that the spot man was first made alive at might have been the last part of the earth to have the other 'created things' expand to.
Chapter 2 would seem that when man was created it wasn't side by side at the same time. Adam was first and then Eve was made after Adam was put to sleep for that step. Does it seem at all possible that there was 'some time' that it was just God and Adam in the Garden? That would have been when they started walking around the Garden and Adam was giving names to everything. Adam saw a barren land when he first opened his eyes, while there had been a mist of water (essential for any life) over almost all the earth for some time the mist just got to this place after Adam existed, rather than the mist starting there and going the other direction.
It would have been after this walk with God that he was put to sleep and Eve was created.
Ge:2:5:
And every plant of the field before it was in the earth,
and every herb of the field before it grew:
for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth,
and there was not a man to till the ground.
Ge:2:6:
But there went up a mist from the earth,
and watered the whole face of the ground.
Ge:2:7: And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
and man became a living soul.
These verses tend to point to there being seed in the earth but not growing because of the lack of water. If the earth had plants growing in 99% of it's area then wind and such could covered this last 1% with many seeds so that when water finally arrived they would have sprung up very quickly. That would be the "eastward in Eden", when the mist arrived then rivers began to flow, etc.
From when man is first mentioned in Ch:2 until this verse below it would really point to God and Adam being alone, Eve was not yet alive even when the instructions about the tree was given.
Ge:2:18:
And the LORD God said,
It is not good that the man should be alone;
I will make him an help meet for him.
The text never mentions Eve as even having ever met and talked with God so her creation could have been the very last event associated with all of creation.
I hope this has avoided all your 5 laws of avoiding increasing wisdom.
Quoting Dexter Sinister
Well I did go and skim over that article, rather than mirror his thoughts let me try to give you just my view with the exception of who these texts came to be written. Lets stay with one author, Moses is usually credited with being the author of the 1st five books, lets also assume it was not written from stories passed down over the ages but just as God narrated the words to Moses. That puts the whole question of the accuracy squarely on God.
That's exactly the kind of stuff I mean. Genesis 1:25-27 has god creating humans last, both male and female together. Genesis 2:18-22 has god creating Adam first, then forming all the animals out of the ground and bringing them to Adam to be named, then creating Eve. That's plainly what it says, and Christian apologists have to enter into elaborate circumlocutions like this to explain them away. Some go into even more elaborate detail about possible shadings of various Hebrew words and how they were translated. If god really wanted us to understand what it's about, and this really is the inerrant word of a perfect deity sending a message to mankind, it shouldn't be that hard. It is intrinsically unreasonable that a layman reading the Bible has to rely on various academic traditions of biblical scholarship like the JEPD documents and have a knowledge of ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, in order to make sense of it.
Ge:1 (and that little bit at the start of 2) gives the order that creation took that had everything in place by the morning of the 7th day. Does that mean that when grass was created that it was complete before the next day started? Or could it have only been complete by the end of the 6th day? Whether you believe in an 'old earth creation' (which spans the time science places on how old the earth is) or the 'young earth' view (which means a much shorter time is involved) neither says that grass was created as a 'poof event', both allow for the first few blades of grass existing and those expanding their territory as the days progressed. The only difference would be the rate at which they expanded their territory. The creation of man in Ch:1 would seem to be both at the same time. Maybe it is only saying that by the end of the 6th day there was man and woman and everything that was involved in creation was made. That leaves us with "X" amount of information. The next chapter add some details about the same subject that wasn't needed for explaining how the physical world was created.
If you would agree that the things created started at some point on the earth and expanded their territory then it is possible that the spot man was first made alive at might have been the last part of the earth to have the other 'created things' expand to.
Chapter 2 would seem that when man was created it wasn't side by side at the same time. Adam was first and then Eve was made after Adam was put to sleep for that step. Does it seem at all possible that there was 'some time' that it was just God and Adam in the Garden? That would have been when they started walking around the Garden and Adam was giving names to everything. Adam saw a barren land when he first opened his eyes, while there had been a mist of water (essential for any life) over almost all the earth for some time the mist just got to this place after Adam existed, rather than the mist starting there and going the other direction.
It would have been after this walk with God that he was put to sleep and Eve was created.
Ge:2:5:
And every plant of the field before it was in the earth,
and every herb of the field before it grew:
for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth,
and there was not a man to till the ground.
Ge:2:6:
But there went up a mist from the earth,
and watered the whole face of the ground.
Ge:2:7: And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
and man became a living soul.
These verses tend to point to there being seed in the earth but not growing because of the lack of water. If the earth had plants growing in 99% of it's area then wind and such could covered this last 1% with many seeds so that when water finally arrived they would have sprung up very quickly. That would be the "eastward in Eden", when the mist arrived then rivers began to flow, etc.
From when man is first mentioned in Ch:2 until this verse below it would really point to God and Adam being alone, Eve was not yet alive even when the instructions about the tree was given.
Ge:2:18:
And the LORD God said,
It is not good that the man should be alone;
I will make him an help meet for him.
The text never mentions Eve as even having ever met and talked with God so her creation could have been the very last event associated with all of creation.
I hope this has avoided all your 5 laws of avoiding increasing wisdom.
Council Member
Posts: 1,923
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
February 29th, 2008, 12:50 PM
Adam represents the spirit of Gods breath
Eve res presents the vessel of clay, earthen.
Together they form a marriage and become a living soul.
Because of that, and the ability to reason, (Enter the tree of knowledge of good and evil) both are as cast out of paradise, meaning, "lost".
So, now God needs to allow the reasoning power, and at the same time rescue His creation from that " lost" condition.
Enter: Jesus.
Mat 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
Jesus being put to sleep a similitude as Adam(Death on the cross) Eve, His bride, is born. (The church or the body of believers in the flesh)
So, now we have still a marriage between Adam and Eve, Jesus being our life saved and not lost, An Eve His bride (body of believers) is made clean by Jesus an awaiting her arrival, which by the way, happens every day as people pass on from this point to the next.
This next verse applies to Christ, but then Christs applies it to us:
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
ahhhh! But if we could just believe a little, what a difference it would make!
Peace>>>AJ
Adam represents the spirit of Gods breath
Eve res presents the vessel of clay, earthen.
Together they form a marriage and become a living soul.
Because of that, and the ability to reason, (Enter the tree of knowledge of good and evil) both are as cast out of paradise, meaning, "lost".
So, now God needs to allow the reasoning power, and at the same time rescue His creation from that " lost" condition.
Enter: Jesus.
Mat 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
Jesus being put to sleep a similitude as Adam(Death on the cross) Eve, His bride, is born. (The church or the body of believers in the flesh)
So, now we have still a marriage between Adam and Eve, Jesus being our life saved and not lost, An Eve His bride (body of believers) is made clean by Jesus an awaiting her arrival, which by the way, happens every day as people pass on from this point to the next.
This next verse applies to Christ, but then Christs applies it to us:
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
ahhhh! But if we could just believe a little, what a difference it would make!
Peace>>>AJ
Electoral Member
Posts: 835
Location: Red Deer AB
Location: Red Deer AB
February 29th, 2008, 03:00 PM
Did you come up with that on your own? It isn't meant to be a put-down AJ, it just seems to be something far removed from what even God could hope for us read with some sort of understanding.
I just don't think we have to have 'deciphered' the whole Bible to get the jest of what those two chapters are meant to convey as to 'what really happened'.
Did you come up with that on your own? It isn't meant to be a put-down AJ, it just seems to be something far removed from what even God could hope for us read with some sort of understanding.
I just don't think we have to have 'deciphered' the whole Bible to get the jest of what those two chapters are meant to convey as to 'what really happened'.
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Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
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February 29th, 2008, 04:00 PM
Creationism, of the old earth or young earth variety, Scientific Creationism, Intelligent Design, whatever you want to call it, is intellectually bankrupt. It's been falsified repeatedly and thoroughly by multiple converging lines of evidence, which is all available for anyone to inspect. The only way I can see to save it is to add some nonsensical ad hoc hypothesis to the effect that god put the evidence in place to test us, which means he's pulled off a gigantic hoax.
And no, regrettably, you have not avoided the five errors in thinking I described. You have committed them all, repeatedly.
Quoting MHz
No, not at all. The story of Adam and Eve is a fable, or a myth if you prefer that word. In any event, it's not literally true. It has nothing to do with the origins of the human species, and everything to do with a superstitious, ignorant culture groping for explanations without the tools to find them.
Does it seem at all possible that there was 'some time' that it was just God and Adam in the Garden?
Creationism, of the old earth or young earth variety, Scientific Creationism, Intelligent Design, whatever you want to call it, is intellectually bankrupt. It's been falsified repeatedly and thoroughly by multiple converging lines of evidence, which is all available for anyone to inspect. The only way I can see to save it is to add some nonsensical ad hoc hypothesis to the effect that god put the evidence in place to test us, which means he's pulled off a gigantic hoax.
And no, regrettably, you have not avoided the five errors in thinking I described. You have committed them all, repeatedly.
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Posts: 3,280
Location: Vancouver Island
Location: Vancouver Island
February 29th, 2008, 04:09 PM
you, as an individual believe', not anything that you can prove to anyone else, unless
they have the same belief in the same things, then you can agree with each other till
the cows come home.
Quoting look3467
You can say it a thousand times over A.J., but in the end, it is all the same, 'It is what
If what is inside our souls can be proven, prove it?
I know without a doubt in my heart that God exists, and all I can say to the world, is by my actions.
I know without a doubt in my heart that God exists, and all I can say to the world, is by my actions.
you, as an individual believe', not anything that you can prove to anyone else, unless
they have the same belief in the same things, then you can agree with each other till
the cows come home.
Electoral Member
Posts: 835
Location: Red Deer AB
Location: Red Deer AB
February 29th, 2008, 05:26 PM
Pick which one of the five you used to avoid the two simple questions I asked you, on second thought, you might not have that much spare time. LOL
Quoting Dexter Sinister
LOL, zip, zero, nadda about why or how the text is in error. It must be in error because that is what you believe.
No, not at all. The story of Adam and Eve is a fable, or a myth if you prefer that word. In any event, it's not literally true. It has nothing to do with the origins of the human species, and everything to do with a superstitious, ignorant culture groping for explanations without the tools to find them.
Quoting Dexter Sinister
Did your parents raise their eye-brows a bit when you explained that little thought to them?
Creationism, of the old earth or young earth variety, Scientific Creationism, Intelligent Design, whatever you want to call it, is intellectually bankrupt. It's been falsified repeatedly and thoroughly by multiple converging lines of evidence, which is all available for anyone to inspect. The only way I can see to save it is to add some nonsensical ad hoc hypothesis to the effect that god put the evidence in place to test us, which means he's pulled off a gigantic hoax.
Quoting Dexter Sinister
I guess I should have taken a whole 6 minutes to do that post rather than rushing it down to 5 it took.
And no, regrettably, you have not avoided the five errors in thinking I described. You have committed them all, repeatedly.
Pick which one of the five you used to avoid the two simple questions I asked you, on second thought, you might not have that much spare time. LOL
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Posts: 1,923
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
February 29th, 2008, 07:26 PM
But let me say this, of all my studies in the word of God, I have never thought to think other than what I read literally.
Which kept me tied down and trapped for lack of understanding.
There are some key scriptures to lend to better understanding, that you will not find in Christian circles.
God uses numbers, symbols and stories to simulate the works of Jesus on His way to the cross.
Verse:
Hos 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.
Two words: multiplied and similitudes.
Job is a similitude of Christ and in that book God uses the thousand's word.
Job 1:3 His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.
There is significance in the particular numbers used. 7 and 3 and then 2- 5's.
In conjunction with all the rest of the bible, those numbers are relevant to the day of the crucification.
For you see, Jesus reconstructed the whole world, which means all 7 days of creation, in one single day.
Those 7 days are divided by 3 separate pictures of the same day.
I have explained them in a post awhile back.
When you are able to see clearly God's designed work in Jesus, you will then be able to see passed all those symbols, numbers and similitudes, and begin to understand the real truth in all of it.
Let me assure you that what I understand, does in no way endanger my soul, nor will yours.
Truly, God is a wonderful and loving God.
Peace>>>AJ
Quoting MHz
I didn't come up with that on my own MHz, it was shown to me by someone else.
Did you come up with that on your own? It isn't meant to be a put-down AJ, it just seems to be something far removed from what even God could hope for us read with some sort of understanding.
I just don't think we have to have 'deciphered' the whole Bible to get the jest of what those two chapters are meant to convey as to 'what really happened'.
I just don't think we have to have 'deciphered' the whole Bible to get the jest of what those two chapters are meant to convey as to 'what really happened'.
But let me say this, of all my studies in the word of God, I have never thought to think other than what I read literally.
Which kept me tied down and trapped for lack of understanding.
There are some key scriptures to lend to better understanding, that you will not find in Christian circles.
God uses numbers, symbols and stories to simulate the works of Jesus on His way to the cross.
Verse:
Hos 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.
Two words: multiplied and similitudes.
Job is a similitude of Christ and in that book God uses the thousand's word.
Job 1:3 His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.
There is significance in the particular numbers used. 7 and 3 and then 2- 5's.
In conjunction with all the rest of the bible, those numbers are relevant to the day of the crucification.
For you see, Jesus reconstructed the whole world, which means all 7 days of creation, in one single day.
Those 7 days are divided by 3 separate pictures of the same day.
I have explained them in a post awhile back.
When you are able to see clearly God's designed work in Jesus, you will then be able to see passed all those symbols, numbers and similitudes, and begin to understand the real truth in all of it.
Let me assure you that what I understand, does in no way endanger my soul, nor will yours.
Truly, God is a wonderful and loving God.
Peace>>>AJ
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Posts: 1,923
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
February 29th, 2008, 07:31 PM
Now, that can not be proven through the sciences, but only by individuals.
But, it doesn't stop us from talking about it, preadventure, some one out there might just get the experience, and they to, will join the ranks of believers.
Peace>>>AJ
Quoting talloola
Yes, your right, like I said, one's own experiencing God in our hearts is the only proof. You can say it a thousand times over A.J., but in the end, it is all the same, 'It is what
you, as an individual believe', not anything that you can prove to anyone else, unless
they have the same belief in the same things, then you can agree with each other till
the cows come home.
you, as an individual believe', not anything that you can prove to anyone else, unless
they have the same belief in the same things, then you can agree with each other till
the cows come home.
Now, that can not be proven through the sciences, but only by individuals.
But, it doesn't stop us from talking about it, preadventure, some one out there might just get the experience, and they to, will join the ranks of believers.
Peace>>>AJ
February 29th, 2008, 07:32 PM
Quoting talloola
i truly don't understand creationists either.
The story that Adam and Eve existed and how they came about is the silliest story I
have ever heard, and anyone with an ounce of common sense can figure that out.
have ever heard, and anyone with an ounce of common sense can figure that out.
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Posts: 1,923
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
February 29th, 2008, 07:33 PM
Then it must mean something else............and experience maybe?
Peace>>>AJ
Quoting mrgrumpy
If you are already born and growing up, can you again go back into your mothers womb and be born again?
Why be born again when you can just grow up.
Then it must mean something else............and experience maybe?
Peace>>>AJ
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Posts: 3,280
Location: Vancouver Island
Location: Vancouver Island
February 29th, 2008, 07:39 PM
'sound mind', and not 'losing it'.
Quoting look3467
I hope It never happens to me, cause I want to go through my life knowing that I am of
Yes, your right, like I said, one's own experiencing God in our hearts is the only proof.
Now, that can not be proven through the sciences, but only by individuals.
But, it doesn't stop us from talking about it, preadventure, some one out there might just get the experience, and they to, will join the ranks of believers.
Peace>>>AJ
Now, that can not be proven through the sciences, but only by individuals.
But, it doesn't stop us from talking about it, preadventure, some one out there might just get the experience, and they to, will join the ranks of believers.
Peace>>>AJ
'sound mind', and not 'losing it'.
