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Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
February 26th, 2008, 06:23 PM
Quoting MHz
No it's not. The earth is created before the stars, birds and whales come before reptiles and insects, flowering plants show up before there were any land animals, and so on. The sequence is completely wrong.
For such an old text, the sequence is in the right order, even the part about time.
Quote:
No, don't bother, you'll just make up more stuff and I'm getting tired of this.
Did you want me to respond to each reference?
Quote:
No, but I thought we were talking about Job's time. There's been some precession of the equinoxes since then, but otherwise the sky would look pretty much the same as it does now.
Now rewind things back to how the sky looked a few billion years ago, would it look the same?
Quote:
The three hours of darkness wasn't.
Coming out of the graves was a local event.
Quote:
Well of course he could, he can do anything he wants, but that isn't the question either. The real question is, does god even exist? The evidence strongly suggests the answer is no. I know you won't accept that, you're just as convinced you've got it right as eannassir is (he's another poster here) that he's got it right, and you can't both be right because he's a Muslim, which ought to tell you something interesting about human psychology, but has no bearing on the question.
The question is not could we do it safely, it is can God do that and keep things safe?
Council Member
Posts: 1,688
Location: Alberta, Canada
Location: Alberta, Canada
February 26th, 2008, 06:36 PM
The thing is Dexter, in a Christians mind, we have all the evidence we need to convince us that God exists. It's just a matter of those that don't believe either don't see/understand the evidence sitting right in front of them or they are willfully blind. Kinda like the same argument you would use for those that don't see or won't except YOUR "scientific evidence".
Quoting Dexter Sinister
Well of course he could, he can do anything he wants, but that isn't the question either. The real question is, does god even exist? The evidence strongly suggests the answer is no. I know you won't accept that, you're just as convinced you've got it right as eannassir is (he's another poster here) that he's got it right, and you can't both be right because he's a Muslim, which ought to tell you something interesting about human psychology, but has no bearing on the question.
The thing is Dexter, in a Christians mind, we have all the evidence we need to convince us that God exists. It's just a matter of those that don't believe either don't see/understand the evidence sitting right in front of them or they are willfully blind. Kinda like the same argument you would use for those that don't see or won't except YOUR "scientific evidence".
Genius
Posts: 821
Location: Red Deer AB
Location: Red Deer AB
February 26th, 2008, 06:42 PM
This is what happened during a prayer. This happened in 1988 this was an intentional prayer, I was fully awake before and fully awake after. I wrote this out just a few years ago but seldom post it.
I started of with the Lord's Prayer and just as I was about to start my plea I got a vision that I was outside my body and saw myself, from the back and above, in a kneeling position with a mist a very short distance in front of me that obscured any further view.
I heard myself say "Master, I don't feel so good." A large hand came out of the mist and completely enclosed my body. This happened in a 'twinkling of an eye', I found myself enclosed in this hand and it scared me to no end because I struggled to be free of it's grasp but found I could move not even one little bit. This feeling of being scared lasted only for the briefest of moments.
What replaced it was the most peaceful feeling I have ever experienced, bar none, and to be quite truthful have not experienced that 'level' of peace since.
As soon as this wave of peace (meaning I was in the company of someone who cared for me much more than my words will ever be able to describe) overcame me the hand loosed it 'grip' on me and it opened and I found myself sitting on this palm facing the ends of the fingers and seeing further forward than that.
In front was a hallway, very tall and the walls were black. The walls were not smooth, but rather, had many indentations and sharp corners at these indentations. There was a faint light at each of these 'corners' and that was the only way I could tell the walls were not smooth, the rest was pitch black, I could see neither floor nor ceiling, only these faint corners.
We were moving down this hallway at a leisurely rate and as I was feeling very 'relaxed' I was going to change my sitting position so I had my hands behind my back and then I could lean back and rest on them. As I was leaning back one hand seemed to miss the expected surface that would support it and I ended up rolling to one side. I looked back to see what had 'gone wrong' and I observed a great hole in the palm of this hand. I immediately burst into tears and said with alarm "You've been hurt!"
I heard not a word but my tears left me and I spent the next few moments crawling around the hand, much like I did on the school-ground equipment when I was a small child.
This hallway had corners in addition to the indentations in that it was not straight as we have halls. We came around one corner and off to the right I could see a faint glow of light some distance down this other smaller hallway.
I asked "What's down there?" A voice (rather deep but very 'soothing') answered "You're not ready for this, but I will show you."
Off we went down this other hallway going around gently curving corners and the light got brighter with each corner we passed. In very short order we came out on a dusty,earthen path and I could see a sky. This path was rather narrow and had grass growing on either edge.
On the grass to the left there were several rabbits hopping around, a few bounds then they would stop and nibble the grass, a few more bounds, another nibble. Our presence did not disturb them in the least.
Just behind the rabbits, only a few yards from the path, was what I would best describe would be a three-wire barbed fence, not in the best of repair as the wire sagged a bit between the posts and none of the posts stood up properly but were tilted a bit at various angles.
A bit of distance from this was another fence made of planking, much like you would find around any farm that kept horses or cows, and behind were some farm buildings, house and small barn made of the same wood as the plank fence.
All the wood was very weathered but the condition of the buildings and fence would not warrant paint as this would be a waste because of their condition.
As I looked over at this scene I noticed several dogs in the yard. There was much running and yelping and much dust from all this activity. I could not determine if this activity was caused by our presence or not and if, in fact, the dogs were playing or it was a somewhat more serious matter they were involved in. The circles they made were small and done in quick fashion so in the short time I observed them they completed many circles.
The path we were on also had the gentle twists and turns like the hallways we had just came from did. We continued down this dusty path and came around another corner and came to a stop. The path ended here and was replaced by a large open space covered in lush grass, a short distance from us I could see gently rolling hill. I could see far enough to see three or four 'rows' of these hills, one behind the other. Very beautiful and serene but what was most astounding about these hills was that they were completely covered by people, standing so closely together that not one more person could have stood with them. There was a small open space between where the path ended and this large crowd stood, which is how I knew the grass was so lush.
On this grass, about midway between the end of the path and where the crowd started stood two people, one man, one woman. As remarkable as this whole scene was I was still even more astounded to see not one strand of hair on any of their heads, not one anywhere.
The two in front spoke no words but it was quite plain they were pleased to see 'Him'. No words were spoken to any from 'Him' either.
We turned and went back from where we had come from. Back into the little hallway till we turned left at the larger one.
We continued down this for some distance until we came to a doorway that was on our left.
I heard a voice say "This is a safe place for you."
The door opened and I went inside to a circular room about 50 steps in width. The room was decorated in many shades of brown and the 'outer wall' had shelves that went way round all filled with books. The middle had furnishings that matched the colors of the bookcases.
The door closed and I was alone.
I stood for a moment and went to the door and opened it just a crack. What I felt was sheer terror, and quickly re-closed the door and felt the terror was gone, as long as the door remained closed.
What was outside was not only terror but evil in that it had nothing good planned for me should I be foolish enough to open my door and go into the passage on my own.
I woke up at point.
It never happened again with this intensity.
So now it's just a waiting game, for me it's to experience something I have already had a small taste of, for you... well who knows when and in what manner He will come for you.
Later
Quoting Dexter Sinister
Well our little conversations are going to answer that, I'm already convinced He exists, I was convinced of that even before I started to read a lot of Scripture. You will have a different path than what mine has been.
The real question is, does god even exist?
This is what happened during a prayer. This happened in 1988 this was an intentional prayer, I was fully awake before and fully awake after. I wrote this out just a few years ago but seldom post it.
I started of with the Lord's Prayer and just as I was about to start my plea I got a vision that I was outside my body and saw myself, from the back and above, in a kneeling position with a mist a very short distance in front of me that obscured any further view.
I heard myself say "Master, I don't feel so good." A large hand came out of the mist and completely enclosed my body. This happened in a 'twinkling of an eye', I found myself enclosed in this hand and it scared me to no end because I struggled to be free of it's grasp but found I could move not even one little bit. This feeling of being scared lasted only for the briefest of moments.
What replaced it was the most peaceful feeling I have ever experienced, bar none, and to be quite truthful have not experienced that 'level' of peace since.
As soon as this wave of peace (meaning I was in the company of someone who cared for me much more than my words will ever be able to describe) overcame me the hand loosed it 'grip' on me and it opened and I found myself sitting on this palm facing the ends of the fingers and seeing further forward than that.
In front was a hallway, very tall and the walls were black. The walls were not smooth, but rather, had many indentations and sharp corners at these indentations. There was a faint light at each of these 'corners' and that was the only way I could tell the walls were not smooth, the rest was pitch black, I could see neither floor nor ceiling, only these faint corners.
We were moving down this hallway at a leisurely rate and as I was feeling very 'relaxed' I was going to change my sitting position so I had my hands behind my back and then I could lean back and rest on them. As I was leaning back one hand seemed to miss the expected surface that would support it and I ended up rolling to one side. I looked back to see what had 'gone wrong' and I observed a great hole in the palm of this hand. I immediately burst into tears and said with alarm "You've been hurt!"
I heard not a word but my tears left me and I spent the next few moments crawling around the hand, much like I did on the school-ground equipment when I was a small child.
This hallway had corners in addition to the indentations in that it was not straight as we have halls. We came around one corner and off to the right I could see a faint glow of light some distance down this other smaller hallway.
I asked "What's down there?" A voice (rather deep but very 'soothing') answered "You're not ready for this, but I will show you."
Off we went down this other hallway going around gently curving corners and the light got brighter with each corner we passed. In very short order we came out on a dusty,earthen path and I could see a sky. This path was rather narrow and had grass growing on either edge.
On the grass to the left there were several rabbits hopping around, a few bounds then they would stop and nibble the grass, a few more bounds, another nibble. Our presence did not disturb them in the least.
Just behind the rabbits, only a few yards from the path, was what I would best describe would be a three-wire barbed fence, not in the best of repair as the wire sagged a bit between the posts and none of the posts stood up properly but were tilted a bit at various angles.
A bit of distance from this was another fence made of planking, much like you would find around any farm that kept horses or cows, and behind were some farm buildings, house and small barn made of the same wood as the plank fence.
All the wood was very weathered but the condition of the buildings and fence would not warrant paint as this would be a waste because of their condition.
As I looked over at this scene I noticed several dogs in the yard. There was much running and yelping and much dust from all this activity. I could not determine if this activity was caused by our presence or not and if, in fact, the dogs were playing or it was a somewhat more serious matter they were involved in. The circles they made were small and done in quick fashion so in the short time I observed them they completed many circles.
The path we were on also had the gentle twists and turns like the hallways we had just came from did. We continued down this dusty path and came around another corner and came to a stop. The path ended here and was replaced by a large open space covered in lush grass, a short distance from us I could see gently rolling hill. I could see far enough to see three or four 'rows' of these hills, one behind the other. Very beautiful and serene but what was most astounding about these hills was that they were completely covered by people, standing so closely together that not one more person could have stood with them. There was a small open space between where the path ended and this large crowd stood, which is how I knew the grass was so lush.
On this grass, about midway between the end of the path and where the crowd started stood two people, one man, one woman. As remarkable as this whole scene was I was still even more astounded to see not one strand of hair on any of their heads, not one anywhere.
The two in front spoke no words but it was quite plain they were pleased to see 'Him'. No words were spoken to any from 'Him' either.
We turned and went back from where we had come from. Back into the little hallway till we turned left at the larger one.
We continued down this for some distance until we came to a doorway that was on our left.
I heard a voice say "This is a safe place for you."
The door opened and I went inside to a circular room about 50 steps in width. The room was decorated in many shades of brown and the 'outer wall' had shelves that went way round all filled with books. The middle had furnishings that matched the colors of the bookcases.
The door closed and I was alone.
I stood for a moment and went to the door and opened it just a crack. What I felt was sheer terror, and quickly re-closed the door and felt the terror was gone, as long as the door remained closed.
What was outside was not only terror but evil in that it had nothing good planned for me should I be foolish enough to open my door and go into the passage on my own.
I woke up at point.
It never happened again with this intensity.
So now it's just a waiting game, for me it's to experience something I have already had a small taste of, for you... well who knows when and in what manner He will come for you.
Later
Council Member
Posts: 1,923
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
February 26th, 2008, 06:58 PM
Well, MHz
All I can tell you is that in times passed I had had all the same arguments you are debating here.
The typical answers are all of what Christianity hold, but outside of that, there are more answers.
I had to look outside of the normal traditional views (such as you have) of things in order to get a different perspective of those same things.
It is much like being inside a bottle and seeing only what is in side the bottle, where as looking at it from the outside looking in, gives a whole new understanding of those same things.
To venture out of that norm was considered a grave risk for fear of loosing my soul.
But I risked it and forged forward to find that God is more wonderful and gracious than I ever thought before.
You have to give the bible its spirit of truth, but not every word is to be taken literally.
Some do some don't, it all depends on the spiritual truth to be extracted.
You gave for instance the verse of forgiving 7x7. Are are familiar with the year of jubilee?
If Jesus accomplished His forgiveness in 7 creation days as one day, then the 7x7 year of jubilee is the freedom.
7x7=49=50 meaning the year of jubilee where mankind receives its freedom.
That is what it really means, but all the same, it gives us a guide as to how many times we should forgive, and if it go passed that, than you forget the rest, for you give it all up in freedom.
You should instant message me to discuss this further if you'd like.
Peace>>>AJ
Well, MHz
All I can tell you is that in times passed I had had all the same arguments you are debating here.
The typical answers are all of what Christianity hold, but outside of that, there are more answers.
I had to look outside of the normal traditional views (such as you have) of things in order to get a different perspective of those same things.
It is much like being inside a bottle and seeing only what is in side the bottle, where as looking at it from the outside looking in, gives a whole new understanding of those same things.
To venture out of that norm was considered a grave risk for fear of loosing my soul.
But I risked it and forged forward to find that God is more wonderful and gracious than I ever thought before.
You have to give the bible its spirit of truth, but not every word is to be taken literally.
Some do some don't, it all depends on the spiritual truth to be extracted.
You gave for instance the verse of forgiving 7x7. Are are familiar with the year of jubilee?
If Jesus accomplished His forgiveness in 7 creation days as one day, then the 7x7 year of jubilee is the freedom.
7x7=49=50 meaning the year of jubilee where mankind receives its freedom.
That is what it really means, but all the same, it gives us a guide as to how many times we should forgive, and if it go passed that, than you forget the rest, for you give it all up in freedom.
You should instant message me to discuss this further if you'd like.
Peace>>>AJ
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Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
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February 26th, 2008, 08:46 PM
I was a believer once too. I grew up in a deeply religious household and the older I got and the more I learned the less sense it all made. I couldn't get satisfactory answers to my questions from the people who claimed to know, none of the advice I was given worked, and in particular, reading the Bible thoroughly and carefully (that was some of the advice I got) in early adulthood was a profoundly disturbing experience. I had no idea god was such a capricious, murderous SOB. That's something we haven't touched on here, god as mass murderer, and I don't want to open that can of worms because this conversation appears to be coming to a logical closing point and I'd just as soon let go of it.
I'm still looking for answers to the questions I was raising with family and friends and assorted pastors and priests 30 years ago. I haven't found any, in fact all I've found is nonsense, some of it pretty clever, but nonsense just the same. So I continue to withhold belief.
Quoting gerryh
...in a Christians mind, we have all the evidence we need to convince us that God exists.
Quoting MHz
What you guys have is not evidence in any meaningful sense, it's hearsay, anecdote, and more or less self-serving interpretations of various emotional states. You start from the position of conviction, look for things that confirm it, and reject things that don't. You don't know what evidence is, and you don't know how to think critically. That's no slight, most people don't, it's a learned skill like any other, so not being able to do it is no different from not being able to play the piano.
Well our little conversations are going to answer that, I'm already convinced He exists...
I was a believer once too. I grew up in a deeply religious household and the older I got and the more I learned the less sense it all made. I couldn't get satisfactory answers to my questions from the people who claimed to know, none of the advice I was given worked, and in particular, reading the Bible thoroughly and carefully (that was some of the advice I got) in early adulthood was a profoundly disturbing experience. I had no idea god was such a capricious, murderous SOB. That's something we haven't touched on here, god as mass murderer, and I don't want to open that can of worms because this conversation appears to be coming to a logical closing point and I'd just as soon let go of it.
I'm still looking for answers to the questions I was raising with family and friends and assorted pastors and priests 30 years ago. I haven't found any, in fact all I've found is nonsense, some of it pretty clever, but nonsense just the same. So I continue to withhold belief.
NHL Hockey Insider
Posts: 3,171
Location: Vancouver Island
Location: Vancouver Island
February 26th, 2008, 09:10 PM
to the place you live, enjoy your life where you are, many will never understand, as
they don't have the same mix, too bad for them.
Quoting Dexter Sinister
The perfect mix of common sense, logic, emotion, and plain old smarts, mixed with a good education brought you
What you guys have is not evidence in any meaningful sense, it's hearsay, anecdote, and more or less self-serving interpretations of various emotional states. You start from the position of conviction, look for things that confirm it, and reject things that don't. You don't know what evidence is, and you don't know how to think critically. That's no slight, most people don't, it's a learned skill like any other, so not being able to do it is no different from not being able to play the piano.
I was a believer once too. I grew up in a deeply religious household and the older I got and the more I learned the less sense it all made. I couldn't get satisfactory answers to my questions from the people who claimed to know, none of the advice I was given worked, and in particular, reading the Bible thoroughly and carefully (that was some of the advice I got) in early adulthood was a profoundly disturbing experience. I had no idea god was such a capricious, murderous SOB. That's something we haven't touched on here, god as mass murderer, and I don't want to open that can of worms because this conversation appears to be coming to a logical closing point and I'd just as soon let go of it.
I'm still looking for answers to the questions I was raising with family and friends and assorted pastors and priests 30 years ago. I haven't found any, in fact all I've found is nonsense, some of it pretty clever, but nonsense just the same. So I continue to withhold belief.
I was a believer once too. I grew up in a deeply religious household and the older I got and the more I learned the less sense it all made. I couldn't get satisfactory answers to my questions from the people who claimed to know, none of the advice I was given worked, and in particular, reading the Bible thoroughly and carefully (that was some of the advice I got) in early adulthood was a profoundly disturbing experience. I had no idea god was such a capricious, murderous SOB. That's something we haven't touched on here, god as mass murderer, and I don't want to open that can of worms because this conversation appears to be coming to a logical closing point and I'd just as soon let go of it.
I'm still looking for answers to the questions I was raising with family and friends and assorted pastors and priests 30 years ago. I haven't found any, in fact all I've found is nonsense, some of it pretty clever, but nonsense just the same. So I continue to withhold belief.
to the place you live, enjoy your life where you are, many will never understand, as
they don't have the same mix, too bad for them.
Council Member
Posts: 1,923
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
February 26th, 2008, 09:19 PM
So, now that both sides are equally, and diametrically opposed, but yet have the same sentiments for each other, enter AJ, with a peace branch, giving both sides the freedom to believe what they want and still be accepted into the kingdom of God.
"them" is not a very good word to use if you want to win friends and influence people.
Peace>>>AJ
Quote:
Unfortunately, talloola, "them" see you all the same way. The perfect mix of common sense, logic, emotion, and plain old smarts, mixed with a good education brought you
to the place you live, enjoy your life where you are, many will never understand, as
they don't have the same mix, too bad for them. >>>talloola
to the place you live, enjoy your life where you are, many will never understand, as
they don't have the same mix, too bad for them. >>>talloola
So, now that both sides are equally, and diametrically opposed, but yet have the same sentiments for each other, enter AJ, with a peace branch, giving both sides the freedom to believe what they want and still be accepted into the kingdom of God.
"them" is not a very good word to use if you want to win friends and influence people.
Peace>>>AJ
February 26th, 2008, 09:24 PM
Quoting look3467
Nicely put AJ
Unfortunately, talloola, "them" see you all the same way.
So, now that both sides are equally, and diametrically opposed, but yet have the same sentiments for each other, enter AJ, with a peace branch, giving both sides the freedom to believe what they want and still be accepted into the kingdom of God.
"them" is not a very good word to use if you want to win friends and influence people.
Peace>>>AJ
So, now that both sides are equally, and diametrically opposed, but yet have the same sentiments for each other, enter AJ, with a peace branch, giving both sides the freedom to believe what they want and still be accepted into the kingdom of God.
"them" is not a very good word to use if you want to win friends and influence people.
Peace>>>AJ
Council Member
Posts: 1,688
Location: Alberta, Canada
Location: Alberta, Canada
February 26th, 2008, 09:37 PM
There's where your wrong. I understand perfectly. The ones that don't understand are people like Dexter.
I was brought up in an RC family. I fell from the church after I was Confirmed. Things didn't make sense to me, too many things seemed to be a contradiction. Unlike MHZ I didn't have an "epiphany". Sometimein my late 30's/early 40's I started searching again. I reread, and asked for help to understand. As far as I am concerned that request was honoured. I found what I needed to understand. We all "learn" a different way.
I was where Dexter is now....I was where Dexter was growing up........ so I DO understand what he is saying, but since he really hasn't had the experience I have....HE is the one that doesn't understand.
Quoting Dexter Sinister
What you guys have is not evidence in any meaningful sense, it's hearsay, anecdote, and more or less self-serving interpretations of various emotional states. You start from the position of conviction, look for things that confirm it, and reject things that don't. You don't know what evidence is, and you don't know how to think critically. That's no slight, most people don't, it's a learned skill like any other, so not being able to do it is no different from not being able to play the piano.
I was a believer once too. I grew up in a deeply religious household and the older I got and the more I learned the less sense it all made. I couldn't get satisfactory answers to my questions from the people who claimed to know, none of the advice I was given worked, and in particular, reading the Bible thoroughly and carefully (that was some of the advice I got) in early adulthood was a profoundly disturbing experience. I had no idea god was such a capricious, murderous SOB. That's something we haven't touched on here, god as mass murderer, and I don't want to open that can of worms because this conversation appears to be coming to a logical closing point and I'd just as soon let go of it.
I'm still looking for answers to the questions I was raising with family and friends and assorted pastors and priests 30 years ago. I haven't found any, in fact all I've found is nonsense, some of it pretty clever, but nonsense just the same. So I continue to withhold belief.
I was a believer once too. I grew up in a deeply religious household and the older I got and the more I learned the less sense it all made. I couldn't get satisfactory answers to my questions from the people who claimed to know, none of the advice I was given worked, and in particular, reading the Bible thoroughly and carefully (that was some of the advice I got) in early adulthood was a profoundly disturbing experience. I had no idea god was such a capricious, murderous SOB. That's something we haven't touched on here, god as mass murderer, and I don't want to open that can of worms because this conversation appears to be coming to a logical closing point and I'd just as soon let go of it.
I'm still looking for answers to the questions I was raising with family and friends and assorted pastors and priests 30 years ago. I haven't found any, in fact all I've found is nonsense, some of it pretty clever, but nonsense just the same. So I continue to withhold belief.
Quoting talloola
The perfect mix of common sense, logic, emotion, and plain old smarts, mixed with a good education brought you
to the place you live, enjoy your life where you are, many will never understand, as
they don't have the same mix, too bad for them.
to the place you live, enjoy your life where you are, many will never understand, as
they don't have the same mix, too bad for them.
There's where your wrong. I understand perfectly. The ones that don't understand are people like Dexter.
I was brought up in an RC family. I fell from the church after I was Confirmed. Things didn't make sense to me, too many things seemed to be a contradiction. Unlike MHZ I didn't have an "epiphany". Sometimein my late 30's/early 40's I started searching again. I reread, and asked for help to understand. As far as I am concerned that request was honoured. I found what I needed to understand. We all "learn" a different way.
I was where Dexter is now....I was where Dexter was growing up........ so I DO understand what he is saying, but since he really hasn't had the experience I have....HE is the one that doesn't understand.
February 26th, 2008, 09:46 PM
Humans every last one of us.
Quoting gerryh
I think it's common to assume that if someone hasn't come to the same conclusion as you, that they must simply not have asked the 'right' questions, thought the same things. It doesn't occur to many people that sometimes walking the same path brings people to different destinations. Most atheists assume that's Christian thinking... to judge and condemn someone for where their path took them. They refuse to see when they do the exact same thing through condescension and pity, through their judgement that the religious are weaker or smaller minded or somehow less than they are.
I was where Dexter is now....I was where Dexter was growing up........ so I DO understand what he is saying, but since he really hasn't had the experience I have....HE is the one that doesn't understand.
Humans every last one of us.
Council Member
Posts: 1,923
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
February 26th, 2008, 09:55 PM
No point at all, gerryh, its just I got a chuckle out of it.
Choice happens to be the curse of us all, no one excluded.
But without it, the choice and the curse, we would never have an experience.
Experience then is the key to life, for there we find our beginning.
Freedom from that curse is what the gift is, to experience life as we see fit.
Freedom provided by yours truly, God.
peace>>>AJ
No point at all, gerryh, its just I got a chuckle out of it.
Choice happens to be the curse of us all, no one excluded.
But without it, the choice and the curse, we would never have an experience.
Experience then is the key to life, for there we find our beginning.
Freedom from that curse is what the gift is, to experience life as we see fit.
Freedom provided by yours truly, God.
peace>>>AJ
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Posts: 3,508
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Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
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February 26th, 2008, 09:58 PM
Quoting gerryh
No, that's not correct. I understand perfectly well where you and AJ and MHz and others like them are coming from, but understanding doesn't require or imply acceptance. I think you're wrong, that's all, and my reasons for thinking so are all over this message board in several thousand posts.
...HE is the one that doesn't understand.
Council Member
Posts: 1,688
Location: Alberta, Canada
Location: Alberta, Canada
February 26th, 2008, 10:00 PM
Quoting Dexter Sinister
Sorry.....no you don't...... You don't have a clue.
No, that's not correct. I understand perfectly well where you and AJ and MHz and others like them are coming from, but understanding doesn't require or imply acceptance. I think you're wrong, that's all, and my reasons for thinking so are all over this message board in several thousand posts.
House Member
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Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
February 26th, 2008, 10:16 PM
Quoting gerryh
What, just because I don't agree with you? Clearly your implication is that if I did understand, I'd believe as you do. That's the arrogant certainty typical of a lot of true believers, and one of the reasons I don't believe as you do. I don't believe you're sorry either, in fact I'd bet what you're really feeling is scornful pity, if you're feeling anything at all. Your current sig line says it all.
Sorry.....no you don't...... You don't have a clue.
Council Member
Posts: 1,688
Location: Alberta, Canada
Location: Alberta, Canada
February 26th, 2008, 10:29 PM
Wrong...oh so very wrong...all the way around.
Quoting Dexter Sinister
What, just because I don't agree with you? Clearly your implication is that if I did understand, I'd believe as you do. That's the arrogant certainty typical of a lot of true believers, and one of the reasons I don't believe as you do. I don't believe you're sorry either, in fact I'd bet what you're really feeling is scornful pity, if you're feeling anything at all. Your current sig line says it all.
Wrong...oh so very wrong...all the way around.
