Member
Posts: 86 
Location: Toronto
Location: Toronto
May 8th, 2007, 03:16 PM
NOTE: I'm not sure if this is better placed in the politics forum, but overall I think it will (hopefully) be more of a philosophical discussion than a political one.
Coming up quickly on the 2008 US presidential elections it seems natural to begin to ask:
Is the US becoming a theocracy, or is this simply fear mongering? If fear mongering, then by whom? If not, then what would the USA as a theocracy mean for Canada, and can it be prevented?
Films like Jesus Camp, The War on Science, The Root of all Evil (The God Delusion) suggest that secular society has been asleep at the wheel, while an organized fundamentalist Christian movement has gained significant political and economic control in the United States.
NOTE: I'm not sure if this is better placed in the politics forum, but overall I think it will (hopefully) be more of a philosophical discussion than a political one.
Coming up quickly on the 2008 US presidential elections it seems natural to begin to ask:
Is the US becoming a theocracy, or is this simply fear mongering? If fear mongering, then by whom? If not, then what would the USA as a theocracy mean for Canada, and can it be prevented?
Films like Jesus Camp, The War on Science, The Root of all Evil (The God Delusion) suggest that secular society has been asleep at the wheel, while an organized fundamentalist Christian movement has gained significant political and economic control in the United States.
Quote:
Conversely Michael Barone argues that the US is not moving towards a Christian Theocracy any more than Europe's more secular populations are about to be overtaken by a Muslim Fundamentalist State.
"We need to find ways to win the war" Karl Rove, President Bush's chief political strategist, and deputy chief of staff told a gathering of the Family Research Council in March, 2002. The Family Research Council is one of the most powerful lobbying organizations of the theocratic right today. Rove wasn't talking about the war on terrorism. He was talking about the war on secular society.
The Reverend Tim LaHaye co-authored Mind Siege: The Battle for Truth in the New Millennium, published in 2000. The best-selling book issues a call to arms for evangelical Christians to battle against secular humanism. Mind Siege declares that secular humanism is a "religion," and issues marching orders to evangelical Christians to gear up for an all-out battle to root secular humanists out of public life; their bottom line is that "No humanist is fit to hold office."
LaHaye, best known for the Left Behind series, was one of the founders of the Moral Majority. He first declared war on secular humanism in 1980 with his widely read book, The Battle for the Mind, in which he claims that evangelicals need to become politically involved to fight the great evil, secular humanism, that is threatening to destroy America.
The Reverend Tim LaHaye co-authored Mind Siege: The Battle for Truth in the New Millennium, published in 2000. The best-selling book issues a call to arms for evangelical Christians to battle against secular humanism. Mind Siege declares that secular humanism is a "religion," and issues marching orders to evangelical Christians to gear up for an all-out battle to root secular humanists out of public life; their bottom line is that "No humanist is fit to hold office."
LaHaye, best known for the Left Behind series, was one of the founders of the Moral Majority. He first declared war on secular humanism in 1980 with his widely read book, The Battle for the Mind, in which he claims that evangelicals need to become politically involved to fight the great evil, secular humanism, that is threatening to destroy America.
Quote:
Is the seeming rise in the religious right in America nothing more than a projection of the information age allowing sub-cultures that would otherwise remain marginalized to collectively vocalize. Is the fear of a theocracy simply a projection of secular societies' disappointment at the inability of rationalism to sweep religion out of the mainstream? Or, is this something new?
This doesn't mean we're headed toward a theocracy: America is too diverse and freedom loving for that. But it does mean that we're probably not headed to the predominantly secular society that liberals predicted half a century ago and that Europe has now embraced.
House Member
Posts: 3,073 
May 8th, 2007, 03:29 PM
You know I finally watched Jesus Camp, and it wasn't as creepy as everyone talks about it being.
The big thing I noticed is those opposed to the practices of the movement, use the same methods to teach their own views. Zealots critisizing zealots, unable to step back and notice the irony.
Most of the stuff shown in the camp is the same methodology used in the public school system just teaching very different material.
You know I finally watched Jesus Camp, and it wasn't as creepy as everyone talks about it being.
The big thing I noticed is those opposed to the practices of the movement, use the same methods to teach their own views. Zealots critisizing zealots, unable to step back and notice the irony.
Most of the stuff shown in the camp is the same methodology used in the public school system just teaching very different material.
Council Member
Posts: 1,425
Location: Great Satan
Location: Great Satan
May 8th, 2007, 04:29 PM
In my opinion, the only people affected by this stuff is the crazies on either end of the spectrum.
If you ask someone on the left, the religious right always has some plot in the works.
If you ask a ultra Conservative Christian, the Secularists and the Atheists are plotting revolution and purges of all of Jesus's fan club.
If you ask the normal people in the middle, they say the aforementioned groups are bat$hit crazy and they all deserve each other.
In my opinion, the only people affected by this stuff is the crazies on either end of the spectrum.
If you ask someone on the left, the religious right always has some plot in the works.
If you ask a ultra Conservative Christian, the Secularists and the Atheists are plotting revolution and purges of all of Jesus's fan club.
If you ask the normal people in the middle, they say the aforementioned groups are bat$hit crazy and they all deserve each other.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,384
Location: London, Ont. Canada
Location: London, Ont. Canada
May 8th, 2007, 05:23 PM
There are 100 million evangelical Christians in the US. Not all will be fundies and I am sure many feel strongly about rendering unto Ceasar what is Ceasars but they could still exert quite a bit of pressure to move somewhat towards a Christian friendly administration.
There are 100 million evangelical Christians in the US. Not all will be fundies and I am sure many feel strongly about rendering unto Ceasar what is Ceasars but they could still exert quite a bit of pressure to move somewhat towards a Christian friendly administration.
Senate Member
Posts: 6,497
May 8th, 2007, 05:28 PM
Only 100 million? That leaves 2/3 of the rest of the voters...
This is only fear-mongering by the extreme left -
By their example we could argue the extreme left 100 million strong are practicing not only secular but illegal lives to the detriment of the children and their nation.
How nice it would be to package everyone into three groups of 100 million each...it just doesn't work that way.
Only 100 million? That leaves 2/3 of the rest of the voters...
This is only fear-mongering by the extreme left -
By their example we could argue the extreme left 100 million strong are practicing not only secular but illegal lives to the detriment of the children and their nation.
How nice it would be to package everyone into three groups of 100 million each...it just doesn't work that way.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,323
May 8th, 2007, 08:42 PM
100 millions is quite a lot, peoples in usa accepted the patriot act, wiretapping, for 3.5 millions of muslim in north america, considering there is 30% of extremist muslim around the world, which means, you guys are afraid of 1 millions of muslim extremist spreaded in whole north america, bouuuuuuuuuuuu i am afraid.
Quoting Curiosity
Only 100 million? That leaves 2/3 of the rest of the voters...
This is only fear-mongering by the extreme left -
By their example we could argue the extreme left 100 million strong are practicing not only secular but illegal lives to the detriment of the children and their nation.
How nice it would be to package everyone into three groups of 100 million each...it just doesn't work that way.
This is only fear-mongering by the extreme left -
By their example we could argue the extreme left 100 million strong are practicing not only secular but illegal lives to the detriment of the children and their nation.
How nice it would be to package everyone into three groups of 100 million each...it just doesn't work that way.
100 millions is quite a lot, peoples in usa accepted the patriot act, wiretapping, for 3.5 millions of muslim in north america, considering there is 30% of extremist muslim around the world, which means, you guys are afraid of 1 millions of muslim extremist spreaded in whole north america, bouuuuuuuuuuuu i am afraid.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,323
May 8th, 2007, 08:48 PM
People found it creepy?? i found it very funny, and a very useful tool, to show how people can be so ignorant, in a country like the united states, where 30% of the peoples teach to their children, that there is 2 kind of people in this planet, "those who loves jesus and those who don't " or making a prayer in front of a George w bush Cartoon statue, i think there is something to worry about.
Quoting Zzarchov
You know I finally watched Jesus Camp, and it wasn't as creepy as everyone talks about it being.
The big thing I noticed is those opposed to the practices of the movement, use the same methods to teach their own views. Zealots critisizing zealots, unable to step back and notice the irony.
Most of the stuff shown in the camp is the same methodology used in the public school system just teaching very different material.
The big thing I noticed is those opposed to the practices of the movement, use the same methods to teach their own views. Zealots critisizing zealots, unable to step back and notice the irony.
Most of the stuff shown in the camp is the same methodology used in the public school system just teaching very different material.
People found it creepy?? i found it very funny, and a very useful tool, to show how people can be so ignorant, in a country like the united states, where 30% of the peoples teach to their children, that there is 2 kind of people in this planet, "those who loves jesus and those who don't " or making a prayer in front of a George w bush Cartoon statue, i think there is something to worry about.
Council Member
Posts: 1,359
Location: BC
Location: BC
May 9th, 2007, 03:34 AM
It is the far right that is fear mongering: the Christians are afraid of Satan, the neocons of democracy, the Republicans of gay mirage, the military of peace and the media of their shadow.
The liberals are only afraid of being called liberal.
It is the far right that is fear mongering: the Christians are afraid of Satan, the neocons of democracy, the Republicans of gay mirage, the military of peace and the media of their shadow.
The liberals are only afraid of being called liberal.
what green dots?
Posts: 3,157
May 9th, 2007, 09:05 AM
There IS a significant portion on North Americans who believe being a "man of God" is an appropriate measure of suitability for serving in public office. To very roughly paraphrase Reinhold Niebuhr, you'd think they'd have caught on after Oliver Cromwell but I suppose such is the human condition.
There IS a significant portion on North Americans who believe being a "man of God" is an appropriate measure of suitability for serving in public office. To very roughly paraphrase Reinhold Niebuhr, you'd think they'd have caught on after Oliver Cromwell but I suppose such is the human condition.
Council Member
Posts: 1,425
Location: Great Satan
Location: Great Satan
May 9th, 2007, 10:04 AM
A gay Mirage? Like Liberace playing the piano in the middle of the Sahara?
Just kidding!
Quoting Scott Free
It is the far right that is fear mongering: the Christians are afraid of Satan, the neocons of democracy, the Republicans of gay mirage, the military of peace and the media of their shadow.
The liberals are only afraid of being called liberal.
The liberals are only afraid of being called liberal.
A gay Mirage? Like Liberace playing the piano in the middle of the Sahara?
Just kidding!
House Member
Posts: 4,494
Location: Minnesota: Gopher State
Location: Minnesota: Gopher State
May 9th, 2007, 03:48 PM
~~~ The liberals are only afraid of being called liberal.~~~
Interesting comment. This was true for quite a while but no longer. The reason being because many libs have awakened (again) to the fact that the biggest liberal in human history was Jesus Christ and that they have been following His example all along.
~~~ The liberals are only afraid of being called liberal.~~~
Interesting comment. This was true for quite a while but no longer. The reason being because many libs have awakened (again) to the fact that the biggest liberal in human history was Jesus Christ and that they have been following His example all along.
