Senate Member
Posts: 5,615 
Location: Saint John, N.B.
Location: Saint John, N.B.
May 9th, 2007, 07:54 PM
Preachers all, and the rock upon which the Canadian left built its political fortunes.
I couldn't resist.
Mind you, I would trust a lefty preacher quicker that a serious right-wing one..................
Quoting BitWhys
Ah, BW, ever hear of A.E. Smith, J.S. Woodsworth, Tommy Douglas?
There IS a significant portion on North Americans who believe being a "man of God" is an appropriate measure of suitability for serving in public office. To very roughly paraphrase Reinhold Niebuhr, you'd think they'd have caught on after Oliver Cromwell but I suppose such is the human condition.
Preachers all, and the rock upon which the Canadian left built its political fortunes.
I couldn't resist.
Mind you, I would trust a lefty preacher quicker that a serious right-wing one..................
Super Genius
Posts: 1,384
Location: London, Ont. Canada
Location: London, Ont. Canada
May 9th, 2007, 08:05 PM
Quoting gopher
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
Kevon Phillips is the greatest Republican strategist in USA history.
House Member
Posts: 4,573
Location: Minnesota: Gopher State
Location: Minnesota: Gopher State
May 9th, 2007, 09:20 PM
Phillips -- don't know if you are old enough to remember how badly the Repukeblicans fared after Watergate and the Vietnam debacle. Just when it was thought that the Pukes were on their way to political oblivion, he became their top strategist. He made them what they are today and this has screwed up America and the cause of peace.
Now he is saying that his fellow Pukes are going too far to the extreme reich. If they are smart, they will listen to him again. It just may save them again and help bring about peace.
Phillips -- don't know if you are old enough to remember how badly the Repukeblicans fared after Watergate and the Vietnam debacle. Just when it was thought that the Pukes were on their way to political oblivion, he became their top strategist. He made them what they are today and this has screwed up America and the cause of peace.
Now he is saying that his fellow Pukes are going too far to the extreme reich. If they are smart, they will listen to him again. It just may save them again and help bring about peace.
Newbie
Posts: 1
August 16th, 2007, 10:00 AM
The USA is certainly not a theocracy. In fact I would think that what people now see as disturbing are actually groups towards the fringe of society who express what would have been commonplace thinking in the 1950s. What you see as ultra-conservative was centrist not so long ago.
As for the assertion that Christ was a liberal....I don't think he ever said he was a liberal. I think people like to define Jesus to put him on their side. I see a person a Jesus who is quite elusive, to conservatives and liberals. "Liberal" may be a good term in that he definitely allowed people to choose---whether or not they wanted to follow him, or even to kill him. He did not impose morality by any force. And yet, I would disagree with liberal Christians who take this stance of his as a liberal attitude about morality--ie that Jesus was saying everything is completely ok from free-love, and homosexuality, to following other faiths. The general morality of the Bible (of which Jesus said a pen-stroke shall not disappear) would be labelled conservative by most people today. So I think in another sense, you could point to him being quite a conservative. The difference is this conservatism is one of individual choice, and not one forced upon others. IE he was not promoting free-love when he said "Let him without sin cast the first stone". He was promoting mercy toward sinners, because everyone is a sinner. He was not condoning adultery, because in fact he later told the woman to "sin no more". I would say that Jesus would piss off the liberals just as much as the conservatives. The liberals because he still does preach conservative (not that conservatives hold the monopoly on them but that leftists would call them such) values (not the do what thou wilt, if it feels good sentiment), and to many conservatives because he did so without forcing it upon anyone else.
As for fear-mongering, I think it is something which is done equally by both sides--left and right. And each side fears the others free speech. One labels the dissent of one side as anti-Americanism or pro-terrorism. The other side makes frequent accusations of bigotry. Where the right can be very reactive in terms of international issues, I find myself equally afraid of the left these days, because they are the side which would put restrictions on speech (even though it may be true) because it could cause offense to a minority. And I also do not agree with the leftist idea of creating equality by engineering the end result. Take for instance the idea of imposing gender parity in parliament. Can you not see how illogical this is? I fully expect someone to reply with "Hey, you mean you think it is illogical for women to be in politics".....but there is another reason. Do you understand this?
The left is not liberal, because it attempts to socially engineer society. If you disagree with this you are labelled bigot, racist, misogynist, etc. The left plays Grand Inquisitor just as much as the right.
The USA is certainly not a theocracy. In fact I would think that what people now see as disturbing are actually groups towards the fringe of society who express what would have been commonplace thinking in the 1950s. What you see as ultra-conservative was centrist not so long ago.
As for the assertion that Christ was a liberal....I don't think he ever said he was a liberal. I think people like to define Jesus to put him on their side. I see a person a Jesus who is quite elusive, to conservatives and liberals. "Liberal" may be a good term in that he definitely allowed people to choose---whether or not they wanted to follow him, or even to kill him. He did not impose morality by any force. And yet, I would disagree with liberal Christians who take this stance of his as a liberal attitude about morality--ie that Jesus was saying everything is completely ok from free-love, and homosexuality, to following other faiths. The general morality of the Bible (of which Jesus said a pen-stroke shall not disappear) would be labelled conservative by most people today. So I think in another sense, you could point to him being quite a conservative. The difference is this conservatism is one of individual choice, and not one forced upon others. IE he was not promoting free-love when he said "Let him without sin cast the first stone". He was promoting mercy toward sinners, because everyone is a sinner. He was not condoning adultery, because in fact he later told the woman to "sin no more". I would say that Jesus would piss off the liberals just as much as the conservatives. The liberals because he still does preach conservative (not that conservatives hold the monopoly on them but that leftists would call them such) values (not the do what thou wilt, if it feels good sentiment), and to many conservatives because he did so without forcing it upon anyone else.
As for fear-mongering, I think it is something which is done equally by both sides--left and right. And each side fears the others free speech. One labels the dissent of one side as anti-Americanism or pro-terrorism. The other side makes frequent accusations of bigotry. Where the right can be very reactive in terms of international issues, I find myself equally afraid of the left these days, because they are the side which would put restrictions on speech (even though it may be true) because it could cause offense to a minority. And I also do not agree with the leftist idea of creating equality by engineering the end result. Take for instance the idea of imposing gender parity in parliament. Can you not see how illogical this is? I fully expect someone to reply with "Hey, you mean you think it is illogical for women to be in politics".....but there is another reason. Do you understand this?
The left is not liberal, because it attempts to socially engineer society. If you disagree with this you are labelled bigot, racist, misogynist, etc. The left plays Grand Inquisitor just as much as the right.
Theism Exorcist
Posts: 368
Location: The Capitol
Location: The Capitol
August 16th, 2007, 11:25 AM
It is my personal opinion that the US is more divided than ever . The Christian right seems to have the country in a strangle hold which is why we see so many dumb moves that would be unthinkable 10 years ago . ( Like Teaching Creationism in schools as biology , or putting the ten commandments up in front of a court house ) It truly saddens me to see a country built on the values of secularism and freedom become so conservative . Many conservatives in the US feel that their values are the values of the nation and that government should champion their causes fueled not by a rational discourse but by their own core beliefs . People tell me that this is just a phase in politics and that it will be gone soon . People assure me that the global trend is towards a secular government and that people are over reacting because they are scared . The US is now far closer to being a police state than it was 50 years ago and I think laws like patriot acts 1 and 2 are with us to stay .
Whatever you might say America is a key battle ground in the war between freedom and Observed freedom and between the values of the 21st century and the values of the middle ages .
It is my personal opinion that the US is more divided than ever . The Christian right seems to have the country in a strangle hold which is why we see so many dumb moves that would be unthinkable 10 years ago . ( Like Teaching Creationism in schools as biology , or putting the ten commandments up in front of a court house ) It truly saddens me to see a country built on the values of secularism and freedom become so conservative . Many conservatives in the US feel that their values are the values of the nation and that government should champion their causes fueled not by a rational discourse but by their own core beliefs . People tell me that this is just a phase in politics and that it will be gone soon . People assure me that the global trend is towards a secular government and that people are over reacting because they are scared . The US is now far closer to being a police state than it was 50 years ago and I think laws like patriot acts 1 and 2 are with us to stay .
Whatever you might say America is a key battle ground in the war between freedom and Observed freedom and between the values of the 21st century and the values of the middle ages .
what green dots?
Posts: 3,157
August 16th, 2007, 12:40 PM
Quoting Colpy
Since it came back up, this changes what, exactly?
Ah, BW, ever hear of A.E. Smith, J.S. Woodsworth, Tommy Douglas?
Preachers all, and the rock upon which the Canadian left built its political fortunes.
I couldn't resist.
Mind you, I would trust a lefty preacher quicker that a serious right-wing one..................
Preachers all, and the rock upon which the Canadian left built its political fortunes.
I couldn't resist.
Mind you, I would trust a lefty preacher quicker that a serious right-wing one..................
Electoral Member
Posts: 676
August 20th, 2007, 03:58 PM
I wonder how how many voters come out in 2008.
They are bumped by Iraq war...and crazy spending of money there...along with so much*** dying.
In last election, it was about continuing Iraq war..
Man, I'm excited!
I wonder will it pass 60-65% this time!
(And 60-65% was one of the highest I heard while French voting rate is...90%?...Well..Canadians don't vote either anyways hehe)
I wonder how how many voters come out in 2008.
They are bumped by Iraq war...and crazy spending of money there...along with so much*** dying.
In last election, it was about continuing Iraq war..
Man, I'm excited!
I wonder will it pass 60-65% this time!
(And 60-65% was one of the highest I heard while French voting rate is...90%?...Well..Canadians don't vote either anyways hehe)
Member
Posts: 112
Location: Alberta
Location: Alberta
August 20th, 2007, 05:56 PM
Quoting SVMc
Mostly. I also think that as religion becomes more and more marginalized, the fringes become more and more radical.....whether that is in the Christian world or the Muslim world. I don't fear the US becoming a theocracy but I do think we will see Christian "based" terrorism on the same scale as we have seen Muslim "based" terrorism.
Is the seeming rise in the religious right in America nothing more than a projection of the information age allowing sub-cultures that would otherwise remain marginalized to collectively vocalize.
House Member
Posts: 4,573
Location: Minnesota: Gopher State
Location: Minnesota: Gopher State
September 10th, 2007, 08:55 PM
I do think we will see Christian "based" terrorism on the same scale as we have seen Muslim "based" terrorism.
Christian France's invasions of Morocco, Libya, and Tunisia, England's invasions of the Indian subcontinent, and Bush's invasion of iraq were all done in the name of Christianity. There can be no greater example of terrorism and imperialism than these situations.
I do think we will see Christian "based" terrorism on the same scale as we have seen Muslim "based" terrorism.
Christian France's invasions of Morocco, Libya, and Tunisia, England's invasions of the Indian subcontinent, and Bush's invasion of iraq were all done in the name of Christianity. There can be no greater example of terrorism and imperialism than these situations.
Hall of Fame Member
Posts: 10,505
Location: The Evil Empire
Location: The Evil Empire
September 10th, 2007, 08:56 PM
Quoting gopher
What?!?!?! Man you're lost.
I do think we will see Christian "based" terrorism on the same scale as we have seen Muslim "based" terrorism.
Christian France's invasions of Morocco, Libya, and Tunisia, England's invasions of the Indian subcontinent, and Bush's invasion of iraq were all done in the name of Christianity. There can be no greater example of terrorism and imperialism than these situations.
Christian France's invasions of Morocco, Libya, and Tunisia, England's invasions of the Indian subcontinent, and Bush's invasion of iraq were all done in the name of Christianity. There can be no greater example of terrorism and imperialism than these situations.
Member
Posts: 112
Location: Alberta
Location: Alberta
September 21st, 2007, 07:12 PM
Quoting gopher
Terrorism and Imperialism are two different things. Are you trying to confuse the issue on purpose?
Christian France's invasions of Morocco, Libya, and Tunisia, England's invasions of the Indian subcontinent, and Bush's invasion of iraq were all done in the name of Christianity. There can be no greater example of terrorism and imperialism than these situations.
Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 10,298
Videos: 3
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
Videos: 3
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
October 4th, 2007, 08:45 AM
Quoting Cannuck
Acctually if you think about it they're the same thing. One is the logical refined extension of the other.
I didn't say imperialism was good. I said it was different than terrorism. It is.
I can see you're going to be good for a few laughs.
I can see you're going to be good for a few laughs.
House Member
Posts: 4,573
Location: Minnesota: Gopher State
Location: Minnesota: Gopher State
October 4th, 2007, 05:07 PM
Yup. As when someone slips on snowy grounds and breaks his butt, it's only funny when it's someone else who is the victim. And when it's the West that is victimized, it's no longer funny. Nor should it be at any time.
Yup. As when someone slips on snowy grounds and breaks his butt, it's only funny when it's someone else who is the victim. And when it's the West that is victimized, it's no longer funny. Nor should it be at any time.
