Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 8,444 
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Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
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Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
February 27th, 2007, 09:08 PM
Homosexuality is natural, many cultures have been smart enough to revere those who see in multiple directions, the gay community of mankind has made contributions far above its numbers, and has since before civilization began. Nothing will change that, especially the Roman Nightmare.
Homosexuality is natural, many cultures have been smart enough to revere those who see in multiple directions, the gay community of mankind has made contributions far above its numbers, and has since before civilization began. Nothing will change that, especially the Roman Nightmare.
Time Out
Posts: 4,276
Videos: 1
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Videos: 1
Location: Richmond, Virginia
February 27th, 2007, 09:12 PM
I am fast coming to the conclusion that there is no way that these subjects can be discussed without feelings being hurt......Im not up for it tonight. Have fun yall and for Goddess sake be nice.
I am fast coming to the conclusion that there is no way that these subjects can be discussed without feelings being hurt......Im not up for it tonight. Have fun yall and for Goddess sake be nice.
The Padre
Posts: 4,558
Location: Ontario
Location: Ontario
February 27th, 2007, 09:14 PM
I agree. Also, it is basically the same conversation over and over I am beginning to realize. Different titled threads, but the same people, including myself, saying the same things. I'm wondering at the necessity of it sometimes? I think your mindset contains more wisdom, and I for one shall just abstain from these conversations in the future. Suffice it to say you all already know what I think so there is hardly need to repeat it all here again.
Quoting selfactivated
I am fast coming to the conclusion that there is no way that these subjects can be discussed without feelings being hurt......Im not up for it tonight. Have fun yall and for Goddess sake be nice.
I agree. Also, it is basically the same conversation over and over I am beginning to realize. Different titled threads, but the same people, including myself, saying the same things. I'm wondering at the necessity of it sometimes? I think your mindset contains more wisdom, and I for one shall just abstain from these conversations in the future. Suffice it to say you all already know what I think so there is hardly need to repeat it all here again.
disturber of the peace
Posts: 1,546
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada...after growing up in Thunder Bay, Ontario.
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada...after growing up in Thunder Bay, Ontario.
February 27th, 2007, 09:16 PM
Quoting AmberEyes
So, basically, what you are saying is...don't question anything. Don't work to create a better environment within the church...just get out? Why NOT question? Why NOT work for change? They are seeing a flaw in the system. They feel a need to speak out against it. These are parents, born and raised catholic who are caught in the middle...between their faith, and their childrens sexuality. I really feel for them. They are experiencing something unique and they are trying to speak out and say, "Hey, maybe the status quo ain't right here", kinda like the whole the earth is flat thing. But the issue everyone seems to have is that someone, anyone would have the audacity to QUESTION anything...and like I said...we are talking about opinions and beliefs here...which means that everything is interpreted...which means that ones interpretation is as good as anothers. So, these folks might be the ones who are in fact right, and the ones fighting against them wrong.
Then perhaps instead of trying to change the churchs opinion on homosexuality, they should focus on removing the church from the government. Put all of that energy into seperating the two, seeing as that's the main issue anyway.
Sunshine
Posts: 408
Location: Vancouver Island
Location: Vancouver Island
February 27th, 2007, 09:17 PM
Quoting sanctus
Necessity? lol, there isn't one that I know of. We all just like to talk and let everybody know how much we think we understand. We do it over and over.. it gives us a sense of wisdom :P
I agree. Also, it is basically the same conversation over and over I am beginning to realize. Different titled threads, but the same people, including myself, saying the same things. I'm wondering at the necessity of it sometimes? I think your mindset contains more wisdom, and I for one shall just abstain from these conversations in the future. Suffice it to say you all already know what I think so there is hardly need to repeat it all here again.
disturber of the peace
Posts: 1,546
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada...after growing up in Thunder Bay, Ontario.
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada...after growing up in Thunder Bay, Ontario.
February 27th, 2007, 09:19 PM
Quoting sanctus
Yes...I know your opinion...don't question anything....nothing. Your interpretation is correct...and I don't believe that for a second. And I think you should be challenged. But you insist the interpretation that you know is absolute, and as long as you say that, well, then you may as well stick your head in the sand and stick to posts where noone questions you and your beliefs and where you don't have to actually face any realities when it comes to your religion and the impact it has on society. Many of the points I bring up, the good points, you don't even attempt to answer, I notice. It would be nice to hear an answer from you, but as long as you don't want to answer them, well, then, yup, may as well keep that head in the sand.
I agree. Also, it is basically the same conversation over and over I am beginning to realize. Different titled threads, but the same people, including myself, saying the same things. I'm wondering at the necessity of it sometimes? I think your mindset contains more wisdom, and I for one shall just abstain from these conversations in the future. Suffice it to say you all already know what I think so there is hardly need to repeat it all here again.
Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 8,444
Videos: 1
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
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Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
February 27th, 2007, 09:20 PM
What would the god of love do? A circle of life goes round and round the questions and the answers follow each other forever eh.
What would the god of love do? A circle of life goes round and round the questions and the answers follow each other forever eh.
Sunshine
Posts: 408
Location: Vancouver Island
Location: Vancouver Island
February 27th, 2007, 09:20 PM
Quoting snfu73
Questioning is for all things outside of religion, and sometimes in religion, if the religion itself permits questioning. I admit that most of our scientific and social advances spawned from questioning the church, but that was when the church was much more integrated into our government, and pretty much ruled with an iron fist. We're starting to see a seperation of the two, and instead of spending all of our time and energies changing the church's beliefs, we should encourage the seperation of church from state. If you disagree with the church's beliefs, then leave the church. In this day nobody is forcing you to be a good little christian, so leave them alone and make your own group.
So, basically, what you are saying is...don't question anything. Don't work to create a better environment within the church...just get out? Why NOT question? Why NOT work for change? They are seeing a flaw in the system. They feel a need to speak out against it. These are parents, born and raised catholic who are caught in the middle...between their faith, and their childrens sexuality. I really feel for them. They are experiencing something unique and they are trying to speak out and say, "Hey, maybe the status quo ain't right here", kinda like the whole the earth is flat thing. But the issue everyone seems to have is that someone, anyone would have the audacity to QUESTION anything...and like I said...we are talking about opinions and beliefs here...which means that everything is interpreted...which means that ones interpretation is as good as anothers. So, these folks might be the ones who are in fact right, and the ones fighting against them wrong.
disturber of the peace
Posts: 1,546
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada...after growing up in Thunder Bay, Ontario.
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada...after growing up in Thunder Bay, Ontario.
February 27th, 2007, 09:22 PM
Quoting AmberEyes
I see you completely ignore what I said earlier on the subject.
Questioning is for all things outside of religion, and sometimes in religion, if the religion itself permits questioning. I admit that most of our scientific and social advances spawned from questioning the church, but that was when the church was much more integrated into our government, and pretty much ruled with an iron fist. We're starting to see a seperation of the two, and instead of spending all of our time and energies changing the church's beliefs, we should encourage the seperation of church from state. If you disagree with the church's beliefs, then leave the church. In this day nobody is forcing you to be a good little christian, so leave them alone and make your own group.
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 3,399
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
February 27th, 2007, 09:49 PM
More to the point, that fragment of doctrine on homosexuality you cited certainly isn't 2000 years old. Specifically, the point about homosexuals being called upon to be celibate looks like a fairly recent addition. Didn't they used to just kill them off as abominations? That seems a pretty clear change in doctrine.
Quoting sanctus
Depends specifically what you mean by doctrines. And which church. The church used to make a lot of empirical claims that had the status of doctrine about the nature of the cosmos and gave people like Galileo and Copernicus a pretty hard time about some of them, but it now concedes that they were right. It even bought the theory of evolution recently, in a weasely sort of way. The church has pretty much retreated from making empirical claims in the last 400 years, it was shown to be wrong too often. If you're referring only to matters of faith rather than things that can be determined empirically, you might have a case, but isn't the schism between the eastern and Roman rites of the Catholic Church a disagreement over a fundamental doctrine, the nature of Christ's divinity?
The doctrines of the Church have never been changed. Name one doctrine you feel has been changed.
More to the point, that fragment of doctrine on homosexuality you cited certainly isn't 2000 years old. Specifically, the point about homosexuals being called upon to be celibate looks like a fairly recent addition. Didn't they used to just kill them off as abominations? That seems a pretty clear change in doctrine.
disturber of the peace
Posts: 1,546
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada...after growing up in Thunder Bay, Ontario.
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada...after growing up in Thunder Bay, Ontario.
February 27th, 2007, 10:17 PM
Quoting AmberEyes
Well...go back and read my posts. I think you will see what I feel you are ignoring. I hope you see what I am ignoring. I think I brought up some fair points...regarding the position catholic parents of gay children find themselves in, the impact of the churches positions on society as a whole...seperation of church and state or not, etc.
And what, exactly, am I ignoring?
Sunshine
Posts: 408
Location: Vancouver Island
Location: Vancouver Island
February 27th, 2007, 10:44 PM
This is what I get from the OP.
Parents of gay people feel that the church is speaking abusively towards homosexuals. The catholic supporters of homosexuality believe that even gay individuals are entitled to holy matrimony, as well as the support of the church. They also appear to believe that the sexuality of an individual is not a choice, but an attribute given to them by God.
Am I missing something?
As I said, and I'm sticking to this - if you don't agree with the church, then leave it. From what I've heard on this forum, many people believe that marriage and holy matrimony are seperate from one another, one being religious and the other not. If you want to get married, and your gay, then do so. But don't expect a religious organization to bless your union when it is against their beliefs to do so.
This is what I get from the OP.
Parents of gay people feel that the church is speaking abusively towards homosexuals. The catholic supporters of homosexuality believe that even gay individuals are entitled to holy matrimony, as well as the support of the church. They also appear to believe that the sexuality of an individual is not a choice, but an attribute given to them by God.
Am I missing something?
As I said, and I'm sticking to this - if you don't agree with the church, then leave it. From what I've heard on this forum, many people believe that marriage and holy matrimony are seperate from one another, one being religious and the other not. If you want to get married, and your gay, then do so. But don't expect a religious organization to bless your union when it is against their beliefs to do so.
Member
Posts: 98
Location: Ontario
Location: Ontario
April 7th, 2007, 09:59 AM
Quoting AmberEyes
Very wise post. Expecting the Catholic church to accomodate minority groups is just not going to happen. And like you said, why should they? If they don't like what that Church teaches, better they find a Church that suits them, in my opinion.
This is what I get from the OP.
Parents of gay people feel that the church is speaking abusively towards homosexuals. The catholic supporters of homosexuality believe that even gay individuals are entitled to holy matrimony, as well as the support of the church. They also appear to believe that the sexuality of an individual is not a choice, but an attribute given to them by God.
Am I missing something?
As I said, and I'm sticking to this - if you don't agree with the church, then leave it. From what I've heard on this forum, many people believe that marriage and holy matrimony are seperate from one another, one being religious and the other not. If you want to get married, and your gay, then do so. But don't expect a religious organization to bless your union when it is against their beliefs to do so.
Parents of gay people feel that the church is speaking abusively towards homosexuals. The catholic supporters of homosexuality believe that even gay individuals are entitled to holy matrimony, as well as the support of the church. They also appear to believe that the sexuality of an individual is not a choice, but an attribute given to them by God.
Am I missing something?
As I said, and I'm sticking to this - if you don't agree with the church, then leave it. From what I've heard on this forum, many people believe that marriage and holy matrimony are seperate from one another, one being religious and the other not. If you want to get married, and your gay, then do so. But don't expect a religious organization to bless your union when it is against their beliefs to do so.
