Origin of Universe: God <vs> Big Bang/Non-God theories

You cannot create or destroy matter. I am correct, right? So if this is true, how does the Big Bang even shape up to make sense.

Quote: Originally Posted by snfu73

I believe the answer is still out there. Some fantastic discovery will be made in the future that will shed new light on the origins of the universe and either prove either/or theory, or produce a brand new theory. I don't think we know enough yet to determine what the origin of the universe is.

Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert

Quite right, Amber. I think the same thing might be true of life itself; not individual lives of amoebas and humans, but life in general. Who says there has to be a beginning to some things?

Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert

Those would be hypotheses, Amber, not theories. Theories generally have evidence pointing in a direction. It's my hypothesis that life always existed and others have hypotheses that are as you said. No-one is old enough to say which is correct.

Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert

Yeah, even if life was created, I 'm pretty sure that it would have been created by chance. Given a finite amount of materials (somewhere in the neighborhood of a hundred+) energies ( a handful) and billions of years to react with each other, it's highly probable that all the combinations of interaction have happened. And then evolution would have taken over from there.

Quote: Originally Posted by westmanguy

Ok, when we think of the origin of the universe, the debate can get interesting.

I would like to first state, this has nothing to do with human life, and evolution vs. creationism. Evolution has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

This is about the origin of the universe.

Now, the biggest non-God idea for the origin of it all is The Big Bang Theory.

My basic knowledge of this, is the the idea a mass explosion of matter combusted and created the universe, and over billion-trillions of years, it slowly shaped into what it now is.

The other belief, is God created our universe.

Now, both, scientificall speaking, are out there.

A unproveable supreme deity vs A random chance that everything around us came about from a big bang.

Both, looking at it objectionally, are outlandish ideas.

So, honestly speaking, the one that makes more sense, as things stand now, is a supreme deity creating the universe.

Because, how can everything we all have today, come from a Big Bang, with extreme random chance.

I don't know.. taking, the evolution vs. creationism thing out of the equation, this is the biggest thing going for religion rate now.

How can science ever really trace back the steps and figure out how the entire universe works, and especially with a randon theory like The Big Bang.

Another thought to ponder: Where did this matter come from? Their always was and always is the same amount of matter.

You cannot create or destroy matter. I am correct, right? So if this is true, how does the Big Bang even shape up to make sense.

This is not a religion vs. atheism debate (we already had a full-on war, before in a now locked thread).

This is about people's opinion, with whatever religious affiliation/or lack of, about the universe coming to be.

Heck, we can't even grasp how large the universe is.

Friendly, respectful, and innovative debate please!

Quote: Originally Posted by westmanguy

Because, how can everything we all have today, come from a Big Bang, with extreme random chance.

If you say God has always existed, then God must have been around an infinite number of years ago. Now, if I said to you "I am going to do something (for example create humans) in an infinite number of years from now", that means it would never get done, because we will never reach infinite number of years. So, going back in time an infinite number of years from the creation of man, God would have created man infinity years from then, which means it never would have happened. I'm not sure if my explanation is clear, but if there is one thing I am certain about, it is that the Universe (by definition that includes everything including God) must have a finite life time.

Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert

Why? What dd you learn that gave you cause to think life's origin was an unlikely event?

Quote: Originally Posted by gc

Better yet, how can God come from nothing just by random chance? He couldn't have existed forever, which means he had to be created at some point. For more on this, see this thread: --

Quote: Originally Posted by lieexpsr

Life's origin WAS an unlikely event.

The relevant question is, what haven't YOU learned?

Quote: Originally Posted by AmberEyes

I have no doubt that it was by chance. And, based on what I recently learned, the chances of it actually happening were very very small.

Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert

Still hung up on me, are you?
Prove it.It's only relevant to you.
Now, how'd you like to quit trolling?

Quote: Originally Posted by westmanguy

Ok, when we think of the origin of the universe, the debate can get interesting.

Heck, we can't even grasp how large the universe is.

Friendly, respectful, and innovative debate please!

Quote: Originally Posted by AmberEyes

I have a feeling that day of understanding is far off in the future. There's no way of knowing what the truth is for quite some time, and I'm content not knowing.

Quote: Originally Posted by #juan

You know, the big bang theory can lend itself to my favourite scheme, and that is the "oscillating universe", which makes a bit more sense. Right now, all the stars and galaxies are flying away from each other. At some point, gravity will slow them down and stop them,(we hope) and drag them back together again where they will converge on a single point. All the matter in the universe will have dissappeared into that infinitesimal point and nothing will survive past that cusp. My universe will expand again in a big bang in another time, and another where, to start all over again. I didn't invent this, but I like this better that just saying there was a big bang....

Quote: Originally Posted by AmberEyes

You're exactly correct. This is why the universe always has, and always will exist. ^.^ It's like a circle, with no beginning and no ending.

Quote: Originally Posted by AmberEyes

I have no doubt that it was by chance. And, based on what I recently learned, the chances of it actually happening were very very small.

Unless the Universe is infinite in size, meaning that there is an infinite number of planets in existence in the Universe. In that case, the chances of life happening somewhere in the Universe would almost certainly be 100% as in an infinite universe then everything must be possible

Quote: Originally Posted by AmberEyes

I did a bit more research on the subject, and it's apparent that the original Big Bang theory is pretty much dead. There are hundreds of "spin-offs" by the sounds of it, that can't explain how the universe started, just that it keeps expanding, possibly condensing again, and then expanding again, over and over.

This idea is not new to me. I can't remember who's hypothesis it was, but it was the idea that every little possibility, every little chance in itself creates a new universe where that possibility is acted upon, thus there are infinite amount of me's, because everytime I think a new thought or take an action there is an alternate me somewhere doing the opposite. Therefore, everything, every possibility exists simultaneously. Err... I'll be quiet now, because I'm talking out of my ass. ^.^

Quote: Originally Posted by AmberEyes

Any good reads I should consider?