Add an additional faith to your faith

Add an additional faith to your faith

Dexter Sinister

#151

Re: Add an additional faith to your faith

Jun 13th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by Angstrom

...Don't worrie about it.

I'm not worried about it, I'm just endlessly curious about how other people think and why they think that way., especially people who disagree with me about fundamental things. I have my own carefully worked out ideas about what's most likely to be true and what's not and how to tell the difference, and I have a large, well-adjusted and well-defended ego, so some part of me has a hard time believing that anyone could reasonably disagree with me. Yet many people do. I'm sure most of us are like that, we all think we're right. But obviously many of us aren't, or we'd all agree on everything. Not even any two people will agree on everything, never mind a whole nation of them. Most disagreements seem to me fairly trivial in the larger scheme of things, but there are some really deep and fundamental disagreements--Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are only the most obvious contemporary examples--that can do us all both much harm or much good, depending on how the differences are dealt with. Obviously any sane person would favour the "much good" option, but the next question is as blindingly obvious as the answer is unknown, and possibly unknowable: how can we know, how can we tell, which is the "much good" option?

I don't know the answer, I don't think anyone does, but I'm 100% sure that religious fundamentalists like eanassir and Mhz and alley DON'T have it. I'm not even convinced there IS an answer, but there may be multiple answers that'll work as long as the people who buy one of them accept the legitimacy of all the others and peacefully agree to disagree. Human nature and history don't suggest that's very likely, but if you can't have hope you might as well throw yourself under the next bus.

petros

#152

Re: Add an additional faith to your faith

Jun 13th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by Angstrom

That's why I said I usually don't bother talking about my belief.
Its just a waste of time. Don't worrie about it. Soul's
don't exist. Who cares

I can have your's?

eanassir

#153

Re: Add an additional faith to your faith

Jun 13th, 2011

They turn away from every recent admonition coming to them from God

(No recent admonition comes to them from [God] Most Gracious, but they turn away from it in aversion.

So now they have denied [the ambiguous ayat of the Quran], but it will come to them the tidings of that [ambiguous ayat] at which they mocked.)

The above between brackets is the interpretation of the Quran 26: 5-6

وَمَايَأْتِيهِم مِّن ذِكْرٍ مِّنَ الرَّحْمَنِ مُحْدَثٍ إِلَّا كَانُوا عَنْهُمُعْرِضِينَ . فَقَدْكَذَّبُوا فَسَيَأْتِيهِمْ أَنبَاء مَا كَانُوا بِهِ يَسْتَهْزِئُون

The miraculous interpretation of theprevious aya 26: 6

The Arab used to calculate with their letters: i.e. to each alphabettical letter is a numerical value: e.g.these English letters:

a= 1, b= 2, c=3, d= 4, e=5, f=6, g=7, h=8, i=9

j=10, k=20, l=30, m=40, n=50, o=60, p=70, q=80, r= 90,

s= 100, t = 200 ...etc.

and this is in Arabic alphabet of course, then they say some poetry and arrange the words to date some events with those words of poetry.

The interpreter said: if we calculate the numerical value of the sentence:

فَسَيَأْتِيهِمْ أَنبَاء مَا كَانُوا بِهِ يَسْتَهْزِئُون

i.e.(But it will come to them the tidings of that [ambiguous ayat] at which they mocked.)

the result will be: 1325 After Hijra: the Arabic calendar: it is the birth date of the interpreter;

Then if you add to it 41 which is my age that passed until I wrote the first book of interpretation (The Universe andthe Quran), the result will be 1325+41= 1366 After Hijra: which is the date of publishing the first edition of my book الكون والقرآن: (The Universe and the Quran).

Therefore, this Glorious aya of the Quran indicates the interpretation of the ambiguous ayat of the Quran (at which they mocked) will come in the year 1366 AH which is the date of publishing the first edition of this book which included the interpretation of some ambiguous ayat of the Quran.

--

Last edited by eanassir; Jun 13th, 2011 at 10:59 AM..

Cliffy

#154

Re: Add an additional faith to your faith

Jun 13th, 2011

Could it be that wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Lybia, etc are admonition from God toward the Muslim peoples for being so dogmatic and unaccepting of their brother's and sister's right to follow their own path back to God? Could Muslim intolerance toward other religions be the cause of all the suffering in the Middle East?

petros

#155

Re: Add an additional faith to your faith

Jun 13th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy

Could it be that wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Lybia, etc are admonition from God toward the Muslim peoples for being so dogmatic and unaccepting of their brother's and sister's right to follow their own path back to God? Could Muslim intolerance toward other religions be the cause of all the suffering in the Middle East?

Nope. We just need to invade a friendly country like France before anyone gives a **** and it clicks in who we really are.

Few complained about Poland, Cz or Austria but when they took France....

Durry

#156

Re: Add an additional faith to your faith

Jun 13th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy

Could it be that wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Lybia, etc are admonition from God toward the Muslim peoples for being so dogmatic and unaccepting of their brother's and sister's right to follow their own path back to God? Could Muslim intolerance toward other religions be the cause of all the suffering in the Middle East?

Well of course!!
If there is a just God, he definitley would punish the Muslims for them practicing their barbaric ways in his name.
It is obvious God does not like the Muslims and the way they conduct themselves in his name.
That is the reason he is making them live a lousy life. It should be worse, in my opinion.!!

In Between Man

#157

Re: Add an additional faith to your faith

Jun 13th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy

The truth is relative to the beholder.

Is this relative?

Quote: Originally Posted by Angstrom

I'm not really worried about it that much,
it doesn't matter in the end.

Even if there is no God, doesn't this notion cheapen life? If it "doesn't matter" you are completely free from any moral implications of the choices you make in life - and that's dangerous thinking.

Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister

I don't know the answer, I don't think anyone does,

If you believe truth is knowable about any range of subjects, would this not also include whether or not God exists?

Dexter Sinister

#158

Re: Add an additional faith to your faith

Jun 13th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by alleywayzalwayz

If you believe truth is knowable about any range of subjects, would this not also include whether or not God exists?

In principle yes, that should be knowable, and the available evidence so far indicates that he doesn't. There is no evidence or argument that can be advanced in support of the claim that he does, that doesn't apply equally well to any of the thousands of other deities humanity has invented (all but one of which I'm sure you don't believe in) and/or admit of more prosaic explanations than that extraordinary hypothesis. Has it not struck you that the more we learn about a subject, the less role there is for supernatural forces in it and the less willing we are to apply such explanations? God's been relegated to being an explanation for things we don't currently understand, and the more we learn the less there is for him to do. Any logical person wouldn't hesitate to extrapolate that record to the conclusion that the postulated deity probably doesn't exist.

Cliffy

#159

Re: Add an additional faith to your faith

Jun 13th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by alleywayzalwayz

Is this relative?

Even if there is no God, doesn't this notion cheapen life? If it "doesn't matter" you are completely free from any moral implications of the choices you make in life - and that's dangerous thinking.

If you believe truth is knowable about any range of subjects, would this not also include whether or not God exists?

Everything is relative. Morals are artificial rules for human behaviour created by humans, just like humans invented their gods. God exists for those who believe in it, just like the devil exists for those who believe in it. Satan is alive and doing well in Christianity and Islam.

Corduroy

#160

Re: Add an additional faith to your faith

Jun 13th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy

Everything is relative.

"This statement is false."

Cliffy

#161

Re: Add an additional faith to your faith

Jun 13th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by Corduroy

"This statement is false."

To you it is but to me it isn't. That would make it relative, wouldn't it?

Angstrom

#162

Re: Add an additional faith to your faith

Jun 13th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by petros

I can have your's?

No It's not mine to give.

Cliffy

#163

Re: Add an additional faith to your faith

Jun 13th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by Angstrom

No It's not mine to give.

I stink Petros was playing devil's advocate.

petros

#164

Re: Add an additional faith to your faith

Jun 13th, 2011

My guardian demon made me do it.

Angstrom

#165

Re: Add an additional faith to your faith

Jun 13th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by petros

My guardian demon made me do it.

The angels must want you bad if you have guardian demon's protecting you lol

petros

#166

Re: Add an additional faith to your faith

Jun 13th, 2011

It feels good to be wanted.

Omicron

#167

Re: Add an additional faith to your faith

Jun 13th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by eanassir

Keep your faith in Moses and Jesus, then add an additional faith in Mohammed.
Keep your faith in the Torah of Moses and the Gospel of Jesus, then add an additonal faith in the Quran.

Therefore, by believing in Mohammed, you will not lose your belief in Moses and Jesus; because the belief in all the apostles is a must according to the Quran.

quran-ayat.co

Don't stop there. Add faith in the prophet Joseph Smith, then add an additional faith in the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price.

eanassir

#168

Re: Add an additional faith to your faith

Jun 14th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by Omicron

Don't stop there. Add faith in the prophet Joseph Smith, then add an additional faith in the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price.

You have come late, Omicron.
This idea was said by some other members and they were glad with it. It is the same suggestion by the same suggester (whisperer).

(Even so: not a messenger came to those before [your people, Mohammed], but they said: "A sorcerer, or mad."
Did they recommend that to each other? [No, they didn't] but they were a froward people.

The above is the explanation of the Quran 51: 52-53

كَذَلِكَ مَا أَتَى الَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِهِم مِّن رَّسُولٍ إِلَّا قَالُوا سَاحِرٌ أَوْ مَجْنُونٌ. أَتَوَاصَوْابِهِ بَلْ هُمْ قَوْمٌ طَاغُونَ

While as regards to Joseph mormon,he was a deluded one, Satan-controlled: because he invited to the enthusiasmabout Jesus and did not admit the prophethood of Mohammed and the revelation ofthe Quran.

Whereas Mohammed admitted the apostlehood of Jesus and all the apostles of God, and Mohammed believed in the Torah of Moses and the Gospel of Jesus, in addition to his exclusive devotiton to God alone and that he broke up all the idols.
T--

Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister

In principle yes, that should be knowable, and the available evidence so far indicates that he doesn't. There is no evidence or argument that can be advanced in support of the claim that he does, that doesn't apply equally well to any of the thousands of other deities humanity has invented (all but one of which I'm sure you don't believe in) and/or admit of more prosaic explanations than that extraordinary hypothesis. Has it not struck you that the more we learn about a subject, the less role there is for supernatural forces in it and the less willing we are to apply such explanations? God's been relegated to being an explanation for things we don't currently understand, and the more we learn the less there is for him to do. Any logical person wouldn't hesitate to extrapolate that record to the conclusion that the postulated deity probably doesn't exist.

Most of these ideas are in the books of Hitchins and Dawkins.
No evidence for God's existence he asserts, the same is God with thousands of other deities ... etc.
How can God the Creator be like other deities invented by people like the idols on earth and the stars of the sky?

This assertion alone indicates their program and purpose in cheating people by playing with words and manipulating the assumptions.

And yes the more they study with their materialistic minds, the more they will get far away more and more from recognizing God their Creator.
While the more the believer studies, the more strength of believing he gets by seeing and discovering more marvels of God's creation.

And also we find this statement in the Glorious Quran 19: 75-76

قُلْ مَن كَانَ فِيالضَّلَالَةِ فَلْيَمْدُدْ لَهُ الرَّحْمَنُ مَدًّا حَتَّى إِذَا رَأَوْا مَايُوعَدُونَ إِمَّا الْعَذَابَ وَإِمَّا السَّاعَةَ فَسَيَعْلَمُونَ مَنْ هُوَشَرٌّ مَّكَانًا وَأَضْعَفُ جُندًا.وَيَزِيدُاللَّهُ الَّذِينَ اهْتَدَوْا هُدًى وَالْبَاقِيَاتُ الصَّالِحَاتُ خَيْرٌ عِندَرَبِّكَ ثَوَابًا وَخَيْرٌ مَّرَدًّا

The explanation

(Say [to them, Mohammed] : "Whosoever is in error, [God] Most Gracious may increase his wealth. Until when they see that which they were threatened with, whether it be punishment [in the World],or the Hour [of death], they will know then who is worst in position, and is weakest in forces."

Those who are guided – God increases them in guidance, and even the good [deeds] that remain [to the afterlife] are better with your Lord [O man] in respect of reward, and better for [your] resort [in the afterlife.])

Last edited by eanassir; Jun 14th, 2011 at 01:14 AM..

Corduroy

#169

Re: Add an additional faith to your faith

Jun 14th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy

To you it is but to me it isn't. That would make it relative, wouldn't it?

I trying to point out that the statement "everything is relative" is a paradox just like "this statement is false."

Omicron

#170

Re: Add an additional faith to your faith

Jun 14th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by eanassir

You have come late, Omicron.
This idea was said by some other members and they were glad with it. It is the same suggestion by the same suggester (whisperer).
(Even so: not a messenger came to those before [your people, Mohammed], but they said: "A sorcerer, or mad."
Did they recommend that to each other? [No, they didn't] but they were a froward people.
The above is the explanation of the Quran 51: 52-53
كَذَلِكَ مَا أَتَى الَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِهِم مِّن رَّسُولٍ إِلَّا قَالُوا سَاحِرٌ أَوْ مَجْنُونٌ. أَتَوَاصَوْابِهِ بَلْ هُمْ قَوْمٌ طَاغُونَ
Quote has been trimmed, See full post:

Except where Joseph Smith was, he never knew Mohammedanism existed.

You think Allah would not throw seeds everywhere?

Dexter Sinister

#171

Re: Add an additional faith to your faith

Jun 14th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by eanassir

And also we find this statement in the Glorious Quran

Well of course we do. Every point you've ever tried to make here comes from the "Glorious Quran" or that ignorant Al-Hilly's foolish interpretation of it, it doesn't appear that you've ever had an original thought in your life. I'd be interested to know what YOU think, not what the Quran and Al-Hilly tell you to think.

Does that idea even mean anything to you?

Omicron

#172

Re: Add an additional faith to your faith

Jun 14th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister

Well of course we do. Every point you've ever tried to make here comes from the "Glorious Quran" or that ignorant Al-Hilly's foolish interpretation of it, it doesn't appear that you've ever had an original thought in your life. I'd be interested to know what YOU think, not what the Quran and Al-Hilly tell you to think.

Does that idea even mean anything to you?

It's like an n-tierd system of interpretations.

First you have Mohammed just saying his stuff, which frankly was not bad if you just read it, understanding it in terms of the times and of the people he was living among. He spoke around the time that monastic Christians were first starting to make their point. Mohammad said that politicians had corrupted the faiths of Jews and Christians, and that's exactly what Monastic Christians were saying too.

Then you get second tier interpretations leading to the split between Sunni and Shi'ait, neither of which Mohammad had a clue about because he was dead by then.

Then you get mystical mullahs making cults out of it, like Al-Hilly.

My favorite of the post-Mohammad miss-interpretations is how Mohammad told women to dress like everyone else in the village when they went in to shop, in order to look like everyone else in order to not get beat up for being Muslim, and some subsequent dicks changed that to mean wear head-scraves and burka all the time.

Bloody hell.

I'd like to see a day of judgement where Mohammed is there to each-and-every-one talk to all those claiming to be Muslim wishing entrance to Paradise.

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Dexter Sinister

#173

Re: Add an additional faith to your faith

Jun 14th, 2011

It's always seemed a bit odd to me that god, according to his followers, chooses to deliver his major messages to unlettered desert dwellers with only the most rudimentary of communication technologies, in languages the vast majority of the world's people don't understand, thereby guaranteeing the slowest possible spread of the word and the greatest possible chance for misunderstanding and misinterpretation. He could use a little help with marketing.

lone wolf

#174

Re: Add an additional faith to your faith

Jun 14th, 2011

Odd.... That's how National Enquirer articles come too....

petros

#175

Re: Add an additional faith to your faith

Jun 14th, 2011

I think I'll give Satanism a try. LeVay seemed like a nice enough fellow on Letterman.

Omicron

#176

Re: Add an additional faith to your faith

Jun 14th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister

It's always seemed a bit odd to me that god, according to his followers, chooses to deliver his major messages to unlettered desert dwellers with only the most rudimentary of communication technologies, in languages the vast majority of the world's people don't understand, thereby guaranteeing the slowest possible spread of the word and the greatest possible chance for misunderstanding and misinterpretation. He could use a little help with marketing.

Carefull. There's Mullahs out there who'd take your argument as evidence that the way of rightousness is with the sword.

Dexter Sinister

#177

Re: Add an additional faith to your faith

Jun 15th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by Omicron

Carefull. There's Mullahs out there who'd take your argument as evidence that the way of rightousness is with the sword.

There always have been, and always will be. Power corrupts, according to received folk wisdom, but power corrupts religion uniquely. I've said this before here in different contexts, but it bears repeating: religion claims divine authority for its pronouncements which, in its terms, gives it both a right and duty to interfere in the lives of those who don't buy it. It is, after all, absolutely right by definition, and if you don't buy it you're absolutely wrong and need to be "helped" toward the truth. And of course being absolutely right justifies "helping" you by putting a sword to your throat or a gun to your head to encourage conversion. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, have all done that at various times and places, and the echo of it is still visible in the attitudes of some of the committed believers here.

I believe, for instance, that eanassir would cheerfully murder me if he thought he could get away with it, because in his terms I'm a scoffer and a mocker condemned to the fire for eternity anyway, no harm in sending me there a little sooner than nature would have.

Last edited by Dexter Sinister; Jun 15th, 2011 at 02:57 AM..

eanassir

#178

Re: Add an additional faith to your faith

Jun 15th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister

It's always seemed a bit odd to me that god, according to his followers, chooses to deliver his major messages to unlettered desert dwellers with only the most rudimentary of communication technologies, in languages the vast majority of the world's people don't understand, thereby guaranteeing the slowest possible spread of the word and the greatest possible chance for misunderstanding and misinterpretation. He could use a little help with marketing.

The Islamic nation is middle and intermediate

All people whether of the desert or of the mountain and of the cities: all these are God servants.
The lettered and the unlettered are equal in humanity and being God servants.

So this desert nation has been almost postponded to a later time.
The messages went to all nations: other than Jews and Christains.
The messengers went to all tribes and islands and at various time intervals and periods.
But the community of the Arab deserts as you call them (although not all of them were in the desert of course) . The desert has the nomads which are only minority and origin of the Arab; but the Arab most of them dwell in the cities.

Therefore, when Mohammed - Salam be to him - appeared, he came after some considerable time during which no warner or apostle had come to the Arab.

You might have read this in the Quran 36: 6
لِتُنذِرَ قَوْمًا مَّا أُنذِرَ آبَاؤُهُمْ فَهُمْ غَافِلُونَ

The explanation:
(Surely, you [Mohammed] are one of the messengers.

[Following] on a standard way [of monotheism and exclusive devotion to God alone.]

A revelation [coming] from the All-Mighty, the Most Merciful.

That you [Mohammed] may warn a people whose fathers were not warned [by any messenger before you], therefore they are unaware [of the afterlife.] )

So while Jews and Christians received their apostles and most of them denied them, therefore they are no more "the people of God" --> so God refused them and chose another nation, to whom no apostle had been sent since a long time (since Ismael son of Abraham who dwelt in Mecca )

So now this nation is middle between the two extremes of Jews and Christians: God chose them and honored them, while the past nations of Jews and Christians became enthusiastic and associaters and idolaters following the idols of the nearby nations surrounding them: like the Baal, Astaroth and the star Sirius; in addition to that they now are the inviters to the atheism and are the enemy of God by all means.

In other words, instead of devoting themselves to their God, they started to invite people to be atheists, and they themselves fell in the contradiction of the commandment that is the most important of all the commandments: to worship God alone without associate.

Therefore, the Islamic nation stood middle neither to the east nor to the west: neither to Jews nor to Christians, but the inviters to the exclusive devotion to God alone without associate.

And Muslims are intermediate between the very strict Jews and the very free Christians: the rites of Muslims are intermediate between these two extremes.

The Islamic nation with its root in the Arab penisula ( this is the wisdom of God): no empire comes to them for any agriculture nor for any rivers, nor for any treasure: but they are steadfast in their land while the empires fight among themselves, whereas the Arab are scure, and the Kaaba at Mecca is scure, and anyone enters into the holy mosque at Mecca is scure.

The light of guidance came from Mecca the capital of the Islam and the goal of the pilgrimage ... in the heart of the desert in a desolate valley.

And inspite of disbelievers and atheists, the light of guidance of God cannot be shut from people, and anyone God wants to guide, then no one can prevent him being guided.

As in the Quran 24: 35
لَّا شَرْقِيَّةٍ وَلَا غَرْبِيَّةٍ

The explanation:
(Neither in the East nor in the West)

The light that came by the apostle of God: Mohammed will come once again to all nations by the Mahdi.

--

Last edited by eanassir; Jun 15th, 2011 at 09:04 AM..

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