The Quran gives the easier way

I'll go to any mosque or synagogue that will give me a wealthy wife or two.

Go to the church, if your teeth are not fallen.

Now, I have realized that you are not that scientific. How can you deduce this and accuse me with such a thing?
The idea is that when God decides to afflict anyone and any people with any calamity or bestow mercy --> then none can avert this.

As in the Quran 13: 11
وَإِذَا أَرَادَ اللّهُ بِقَوْمٍ سُوءًا فَلاَ مَرَدَّ لَهُ وَمَا لَهُم مِّن دُونِهِ مِن وَالٍ

The explanation:
(If God intends evil to any folk, then it cannot be averted, and – apart from God – they will have not any patron.)

And like His saying - be glorified - in the Quran 10: 107
وَإِن يَمْسَسْكَ اللّهُ بِضُرٍّ فَلاَ كَاشِفَ لَهُ إِلاَّ هُوَ وَإِن يُرِدْكَ بِخَيْرٍ فَلاَ رَآدَّ لِفَضْلِهِ يُصَيبُ بِهِ مَن يَشَاء مِنْ عِبَادِهِ وَهُوَ الْغَفُورُ الرَّحِيمُ

The explanation:
(If God inflicts you [man] with some affliction, none but He can remove it;
and if He wills for you any good [: the prophethood], then none can prevent His favor [from reaching you];
He bestows it [: the prophethood] on any of His servants He pleases [: that servant being kind-hearted and good-doer]; and He is the Most Forgiving, the Most Merciful.)

While as regards Abu Hamid Al-Ghazali whom you mentioned; I don't think he said as you stated; but he did not like the way the philosophers think; and another one Ibn Rushd contradicted him later on in the next generation, I think. Abu Hamid was from Persia, and Ibn Rushd was from Andalusia.

Anyhow, to each one of these two scholars was his own opinion which is not compulsory, and they were not prophets bringing revelation from God.

Quote: Originally Posted by CUBert

My disbelief comes from how God wired my brain, my disbelief is directly the result then of God

No, it is not compulsory; God let man have the free choice to believe and be grateful, or to disbelieve and be ungrateful.

As in the Quran 76: 3
إِنَّا هَدَيْنَاهُ السَّبِيلَ إِمَّا شَاكِرًا وَإِمَّا كَفُورًا

The explanation:
(We have shown to him the [correct] way; [and have given to him the choice] whether to be grateful or ungrateful.)

Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister

I can't imagine Einstein, even as a child, making such a specious argument, which is itself just a semantic fallacy that demonstrates nothing. Cold is the absence of heat, dark is the absence of light? Silly word games, and Einstein wasn't a believer anyway.

Whether he is Einstein or not; the idea is he refuted their claims of ascribing the evil to God - be exalted.
So he proved to his teacher that the evil is only the absence of good from the heart of the disbeliever, and the atheist in the first place lies to himself by denying his Creator, and at last will lose.

Last edited by eanassir; Jun 1st, 2011 at 11:17 AM..

Studies have shown significant differences in brain activity between believers and non-believers
--
God wired my brain to be a non-believer

Why would a merciful loving god do that? Surely an omnipotent, omniscient deity could come up with something better than that to bring people to the correct path. That makes god the agent of inflicting evil on people. Obviously that wasn't Einstein, that was an actor in a movie, a work of fiction. And if you think the script writer's argument that he put in the child's mouth constitutes proof of anything, you are very much mistaken. It makes just as much sense (i.e. none at all) to argue that good is just the absence of evil. You're also implicitly arguing that only a disbeliever can be evil, which is, or ought to be, obvious nonsense to any thinking person. Philosophers and theologians who've thought far more deeply about this than you and I have been debating the problem of evil for millennia, without resolution. If that simple bit of casuistry were adequate, they'd have figured it out long ago.

The quran keeps the Muslims following a barbaric culture.

Here's another stoneing example of how they still manage to accomplish this barbaric mentality.

--

''Go to the church, if your teeth are not fallen.''

My teeth are almost perfect for a 60 year old. Now, what church do you suggest.

1- Such studies are not exact and precise; it is suggesting and according to the caprice of the researchers.
2- Any thinking and any experience will have its stamp on the brain, in addition to many chemical, psychological, and life experiences.
3- Certainly, it is you that wire your brain to some extent or another: if one denies God and acts as ungodly --> he will be like the wandering-about cattle, in addition to many other acts like alcohol drinking, cigarette smoking, the hatred towards others --> all this will influence your brain.

While believing in God, on the contrary it will give you steadiness of thinking and soundness of emotion and your insight and wisdom in life will be better, and specially when one keeps up reciting the Quran and remembering God day and night --> this will certainly give better consequences on the brain.

But some disbelievers and atheists work hardly to prove by lying that religion (the true religion of God of course, not the religion of ignorance and idolatry and enthusiasm) that it leads to bad effect on the brain; but they are wrong and their brains are badly harmed by their own selves.

It has happened that whenever I read the soora 47, I have much relief from any distress that I encounter in the daily life:

This is in the Quran 47: 1-3


The explanation:
(Those who unbelieve and bar [people] from God's way [: His religion]; God [will] make their works void.

But those who believe [in God alone] and work righteous [deeds] and believe in [the Quran] revealed to Mohammed – and it is the very truth [coming] from their Lord – He concealed their evil acts [from the sight of souls], and improved their condition [into peace and easiness.]

That [is the rewarding of the two parties] because the unbelievers follow the falsehood [so they deserve the punishment], while the believers follow the truth [coming] from their Lord [so they deserve Paradise]; thus does God expound to people their parables.)

quran-ayat.co

God is Merciful in this World towards both the believers and the non-believers: to each He gives much of His bounties and grace: each has children, wealth, safety, health and a large number of uncountable bounties and favors.
The believer should be grateful: although most of people including the believers are ungrateful or forget to thank God for His blessings and grace. A little number of people do give thanks and show gratitude.

As God said in the Quran 34: 13
اعْمَلُوا آلَ دَاوُودَ شُكْرًا وَقَلِيلٌ مِّنْ عِبَادِيَ الشَّكُورُ

The explanation:
(Work in [a way to show] gratitude [to God], O members of [Prophet] David's house [to build the Holly Mosque at Jerusalem];
for few indeed are those, that are grateful, among My servants.)

But it is among His program is to bring the people deserving the guidance to the true guidance, and to misguide the wrong-doers.

Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister

Obviously that wasn't Einstein, that was an actor in a movie, a work of fiction. And if you think the script writer's argument that he put in the child's mouth constitutes proof of anything, you are very much mistaken. It makes just as much sense (i.e. none at all) to argue that good is just the absence of evil. You're also implicitly arguing that only a disbeliever can be evil, which is, or ought to be, obvious nonsense to any thinking person. Philosophers and theologians who've thought far more deeply about this than you and I have been debating the problem of evil for millennia, without resolution. If that simple bit of casuistry were adequate, they'd have figured it out long ago.

As I said whether it be Einstein or another one; and certainly he was an actor telling the story of Einstein in his childnood, and when I saw this movie part, I thought that God rewarded this Einstein for his defending and gave him such science and fame. Anyhow many admire Einstein exceedingly, so he is in this time like Ptolemy in his time who was once thought to be infallible, and the church adopte his teachings although he did not bring any revelation from God.

What that child said was genius and answered their fallacies by few words that dumbed the teacher.

If one contemplates, he will discover that: take e.g. the cancer: it is a disease: the disease is the distortion of the health; you cannot appreciate the health unless man suffers the disease: the headache, the pain ...etc. Now to every disease there is the medicinal drugs, but it may be unknown, then will be discovered (may be the people of Mars know the cure of the cancer as do we know the cure of the bacterial dieseases )

The police man carries his staff to hit the thief with it; if he does not hit the theif, the property of people will be robbed. God created the snake to bite the religious who follows the idolatry and the association with God and to bite the atheist who denies God his Creator and he works strenuously to disprove God and to contradict God.

The snake will bite the wrong-doer whom God knows, but he conceals his wrong-doing from people; such snake or tiger will go searching until she leaves many people but she comes to theis God's enemy to bite him or the tiger devours him.

And this World is a home of trial to see who will pass the examination and who will fail: we are under the invisible camera as they call it. We are pictured while we are unaware: the patient will suffer to see will he keep up to his belief or will he disbelieve.

The Wold is not a home of everlasting; it is of a very short duration.

There in the next afterlife, man will live - in case he pass the trial and examination - will live without disesase, and will be happy with his wives, and children (if his children die in their childhood) and prosperity, and wine and milk and fruits and every pleasure to which God invites man.

So while the disbeliever insists on his disbelief --> let him go to whatever he has chosen.

As God said in the Quran 7: 185

أوَلَمْ يَنْظُرُوا في ملَكوتِ السّماواتِ والأرْضِ وما خَلَقَ اللهُ مِنْ شَيْءٍ وأنْ عَسَى أنْ يَكُونَ قَد اقْتَربَ أجَلُهُمْ فبِأيّ حَديثٍ بَعْدَهُ يُؤمِنُون ؟

The explanation:

(Have they not considered the kingdom of the heavens and the earth, and what things God has created,
and it may be their term is already drawing nigh;
in what revelation, after this [Quran], then will they believe?)

That is because there will not be any new revelation following the Quran (other than only the interpretation of the Quran)


--

Quote: Originally Posted by gopher

''Go to the church, if your teeth are not fallen.''

My teeth are almost perfect for a 60 year old. Now, what church do you suggest.

Go to your church and plead them to give you a wife or two, specially you are a poor 60 years old; it may be some 50 years old rich girl will accept you (and tell her you teeth are almost perfect. Such a woman will be good for gopher, specially she is depleted of her tobacco - a parable. i.e. she will not give you sex; only she will clean your room and cook your food

Last edited by eanassir; Jun 2nd, 2011 at 01:10 AM..

The Quran was supposedly DICTATED by an illiterate person, to three other fellows, who wrote down what the illiterate person said, but not till after he had died. Yes indeed, and we are to believe that this is an inspired book of God, when Mohammed himself is NEVER known to have actually said any of the things that are in the Quran. There are no accounts from any other source that he wanted, or even tried to make, a new religion.

Muslims are supposed to eat only "halal", which is actually exactly the same as Kosher. But, the vast majority of Muslims do NOT follow Halal explicitly, do they? So, they do not follow the Quran, except when it suits them to do so.

You can find almost diametrically opposing statements in the Quran. Little things, such as that all peoples of "the book" are to be accorded respect. This means that they are not to be treated poorly, they are NOT to be forcibly converted and they are NOT to be murdered. To do so is to put oneself outside of the rules of the Quran, and makes one an apostate. According to the Quran, all Apostates are to be killed, so this literally means that any Muslim that kills a Christian or a Jew is to be killed as an Apostate.

Yet, other passages state that any non-believer is to be put to the sword. What is a non-believer? Once again, according to some passages, all peoples of the Book are believers. Yet, in other passages, Christians and Jews are non-believers.

So, what is any person to do? If they follow one set of passages, they are in violation of the other. This literally makes no sense at all.

Te day that the leaders of the Muslim religions stand up and state: ALL believers in the book are to be accorded respect for all Muslims, they are not to be harmed, killed or in any way displaced; then I will accept Islam as a Religion of Peace.

''only she will clean your room and cook your food''

You are kind. But all I'm looking for is wealth. I'm a good housekeeper and excellent cook.

------------------------------------------------

When Abdullah son of Salam - who was one of the Jews contemporary to Prophet Mohammed - submitted himself [to God] , converted and became a Muslim, together with few other Jews, he invited the others to convert to the Islam, but they did not agree with him, did not submit themselves [to God] and did not become Muslims; that is his saying- be exalted- in the Quran 46: 10

قُلْ أَرَأَيْتُمْ إِن كَانَ مِنْ عِندِ اللَّهِ وَكَفَرْتُم بِهِ وَشَهِدَ شَاهِدٌ مِّن بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ عَلَى مِثْلِهِ فَآمَنَ وَاسْتَكْبَرْتُمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يَهْدِي الْقَوْمَ الظَّالِمِينَ

The explanation:

(Say [Mohammed to them] “Tell me your opinion: If the [Quran] be from God, and you disbelieve in it [: what will your fate be in the afterlife, before God?]

Moreover, a witness [:Abdullah son of Salam] out of the Children of Israel testifies to its similarity [with the Law of Moses];

so [the witness] has believed, whereas you have become arrogant [; because you are wrong-doers]

; surely God guides not the wrong-doing people.”


Therefore, God warned them and threatened them that He has decided to punish them in the future.

--

I'd have thought they'd be the ones most in need of guidance. What's this deity trying to accomplish, horrible death for the vast majority of his creatures? There's something to look forward to, and I'm sure you do. You hide your anti-Semitism behind citations from the Quran, just as the the Christian church used to do, and some Christians still do, with biblical citations, but everybody can see it. I'd bet you think the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a legitimate historical document.

Quote: Originally Posted by The Old Medic

TheQuran was supposedly DICTATED by an illiterate person, to three other fellows,who wrote down what the illiterate person said, but not till after he had died.Yes indeed, and we are to believe that this is an inspired book of God, whenMohammed himself is NEVER known to have actually said any of the things thatare in the Quran. There are no accounts from any other source that he wanted,or even tried to make, a new religion.

Didn’t you ask yourself: How can I believe all this without any proof, and deny the truth that the Quran is God’sword which He revealed to Prophet Mohammed – salam be to him, just as had He revealed before the Torah to Moses and the Gospel to Jesus; and that the Quran is the pure word of God inviting people to God alone without associate?

The word قرآنQuran is derived from the word recite which means to read: that is what Gabriel recited to Prophet Mohammed and the latter recited it to people.

While the word كتاب scripture or book or more precisely “writings”is derived from the word write down. This is what his companions wrote down following his dictation to them.

As in the Quran2: 2-3

2 الم .

2 Alif,Lam, Miem.

The explanation: (ReciteTo them, O Mohammed!)

……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

3 ذَلِكَ الْكِتَابُ لاَ رَيْبَ فِيهِ هُدًىلِّلْمُتَّقِينَ

3 That Scripture, whereof there is no doubt, guidance to those who ward off [God's punishment.]

The interpretation:

That scripture: indicates the ayat of the Quran revealed before this aya (like soora 96, 74, 73, 68 ..etc) and your companions wrote it down; so before its writing down, it is not the “book” or the “writings”, but it is the recital which is what Gabriel recited to Mohammed.

Because Gabriel did not bring down a book from heaven, but he brought the ayat that he recited to Mohammed who told it to people and they wrote it down so when it was written then it can be called a “book”.

--

Quote: Originally Posted by The Old Medic

Muslimsare supposed to eat only "halal", which is actually exactly the sameas Kosher. But, the vast majority of Muslims do NOT follow Halal explicitly, dothey? So, they do not follow the Quran, except when it suits them to do so.

“Muslims” do not mean angels: they are people out of the creation of God.

“Believers” also are the same,unless they act righteously.

Like you say “good citizens”, but they should not transgress on others.

As God – be glorified – said in theQuran 5: 68

قُلْ يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ لَسْتُمْ عَلَى شَيْءٍ حَتَّىَ تُقِيمُواْالتَّوْرَاةَ وَالإِنجِيلَ وَمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكُم مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ وَلَيَزِيدَنَّكَثِيرًا مِّنْهُم مَّا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكَ مِن رَّبِّكَ طُغْيَانًا وَكُفْرًا فَلاَتَأْسَ عَلَى الْقَوْمِ الْكَافِرِينَ

The explanation:

(Say [Mohammed to them]: "People of the Bible [lit. Scripture: Jews and Christians],

you rest on no [sound religion] until you 'correct and observe' the Law and the Gospel and [the rules and duties in the original Law and the original Gospel,including the belief in the Seal of prophets: Mohammed, son of Abdullah] that was revealed to you from your Lord."

But [their dispraisal] that has been revealed to you [Mohammed, in the Quran] from your Lord will surely increase much many of them in arrogance and disbelief;

so grieve not for a people who disbelieve [neither in the Quran, nor in you.] )

--

Last edited by eanassir; Jun 2nd, 2011 at 11:46 PM..

I know that you and most of the others here hate the Quran very much to the extent that you pass over the ayat quickly and unwilling to think deeply about its implication and ponder about their meaning.

And it is not of a matter of "they'd be the ones most in need of guidance", but a matter of deserving such guidance: God's plan is to let wrong-doers misguided in order to punish them, and He sends them His envoys only as an evidence against them: implying: I have sent you My apostles and warners, but you did not listen to them; so you go into Hell to suffer therein forever according to your wrong-doing and transgression and hard hearts.

This meaning is manifest in the Glorious Quran that God guides the kind-hearted and the good-doer towards the poor and needy; and that He misguides those doing worng and transgression on the weak and the orphans and widows and those who impede the help to the hungry and the needy.

Like this aya 32: 13

وَلَوْ شِئْنَا لَآتَيْنَا كُلَّ نَفْسٍهُدَاهَا وَلَكِنْ حَقَّ الْقَوْلُ مِنِّي لَأَمْلَأَنَّ جَهَنَّمَ مِنَ الْجِنَّةِوَالنَّاسِ أَجْمَعِينَ

The explanation:

(If We had so willed, We could have given to every soul its guidance, but My due word was [deservedly] pronounced in truth:

"Certainly, I will fill Hell with [the wrong-doers of] the genie-kind and the man-kind altogether.")


And like this Quranic revelation 10: 99

وَلَوْ شَاء رَبُّكَ لآمَنَ مَن فِي الأَرْضِ كُلُّهُمْ جَمِيعًاأَفَأَنتَ تُكْرِهُ النَّاسَ حَتَّى يَكُونُواْ مُؤْمِنِينَ

The explanation:

([O Mohammed,] if your Lord had willed, all those in the earth as a whole [: all the planets] would have believed. Then can you compel people tobecome believers?)

And He – be exalted– explained that He does not like the transgressors and worng-doers in many ayat, and in other ayat God declared that He misguides the wrong-doer; like this aya 14: 27

يُثَبِّتُ اللّهُ الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ بِالْقَوْلِالثَّابِتِ فِي الْحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا وَفِي الآخِرَةِ وَيُضِلُّ اللّهُ الظَّالِمِينَوَيَفْعَلُ اللّهُ مَا يَشَاء

The explanation:
(God confirms those who believe,through the enduring word in the Worldly life and in the afterlife;
but God misguides wrong-doers, and God does that which He will.)

Quote: Originally Posted by The Old Medic

You can find almost diametrically opposing statements in the Quran. Little things, such as that all peoples of "the book" are to be accorded respect. This means that they are not to be treated poorly, they are NOT to be forcibly converted and they are NOT to be murdered. To do so is to put oneself outside of the rules of the Quran, and makes one an apostate. According to the Quran, all Apostates are to be killed, so this literally means that any Muslim that kills a Christian or a Jew is to be killed as an Apostate.

Yet, other passages state that any non-believer is to be put to the sword. What is a non-believer? Once again, according to some passages, all peoples of the Book are believers. Yet, in other passages, Christians and Jews are non-believers.

So, what is any person to do? If they follow one set of passages, they are in violation of the other. This literally makes no sense at all.

Mention to us what are such passages and their numbers, so that we may believe and answer you.

Last edited by eanassir; Jun 3rd, 2011 at 04:33 AM..