Denmark challenges Russia and Canada over North Pole

B00Mer

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Denmark claims North Pole through Arctic underwater ridge



An Arctic expert says an unspoken agreement between Arctic nations on how to divvy up northern seas is all but dead now that Denmark is presenting scientific data that it says gives it a claim on waters past the North Pole.

The claim, which was to be filed with the United Nations in New York on Monday, will force Canada into tough future negotiations on overlapping claims instead of being able to rely on deals worked out in advance, said University of British Columbia international law professor Michael Byers.

"Most people who follow this issue are wishing that we hadn't arrived at this point, that the gentleman's agreement was going to take care of these matters and set in place a workable agreement that would have provided stability," Byers said from Novosibirsk, Russia.

Rob Huebert at the University of Calgary's Centre for Military and Strategic Studies said any such agreement was doomed from the start.

"I think we got sold a bill of goods," he said. "I don't think the Russians or the Danes, once it came up to the political leadership, ever really intended to do that."

Interest in the Arctic is intensifying as global warming shrinks the polar ice and opens up possible resource development, potential new fisheries and new shipping lanes.

The area is believed to hold an estimated 13 per cent of the world's undiscovered oil and 30 per cent of its untapped gas.

Danish Foreign Minister Martin Lidegaard says scientific data shows Greenland's continental shelf is connected to the 2,000-kilometre-long Lomonosov Ridge beneath the Arctic Ocean. He says that gives Danes a claim to the North Pole and any resources on the sea floor.

The United Nations panel is to eventually decide control of the area. The Danes claim the right to exploit an area of 895,000 square kilometres. The area goes right up to Russia's exclusive economic zone 370 kilometres off its shoreline.

Last December, Canada surprised its Arctic neighbours when it made its own filing under the United Nations Convention on Law of the Sea. It said the Arctic component, which had been widely expected to stop just short of the North Pole, wasn't complete and that it would eventually include data backing up a claim that would include the Pole and waters beyond.

Documents obtained The Canadian Press suggest that announcement also surprised Canadian government officials. Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird has not disputed published reports that Prime Minister Stephen Harper stepped in at the last minute to insist that the North Pole be included in the claim.

Huebert said Denmark's move wasn't a surprise.

"This is the process. We shouldn't be surprised at them going for the maximum that they can."

Actual boundaries on the sea floor are to be settled by international negotiations. Those talks won't begin until scientific data filed by the contesting nations is examined. That is expected to take 10 to 15 years.

By then, however, climate change will have gone even further. That could make Arctic resources from energy to fisheries more accessible -- and more contentious.

"It's generally a good thing to negotiate issues when the stakes are relatively small," said Byers. "Once the stakes grow, then you get vested interests and more political possibilities."

Huebert said the temperature of the talks will depend on the geopolitics of the time.

"It's going to be like it is everywhere else. If this was any other ocean space in the world, no one would be saying, 'We'll have an artificial point that automatically gives us less."'

Russia has previously filed a submission for the sea floor up to the North Pole, but is expected to file a revised version in the spring. Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said in September that claim will form a triangle with its apex at the North Pole.

"It's entirely possible that Russia will expand its forthcoming submission to include seabed all the way up to Denmark and Canada's exclusive economic zone," said Byers.

"They're perfectly entitled to do that, but it would be the international law equivalent of flying a Tupolev bomber to 201 nautical miles from the Canadian coast. It's still not considered an entirely friendly action."

Canadian government spokesman John Babcock said Denmark's move was not unexpected.

"Canada, Denmark, Russia and the U.S. are all expected to be able to define large continental shelves in the Arctic Ocean," he said in an emailed statement. Canada and Denmark continue to enjoy a positive relationship, Babcock said.

"The government's objective has been to obtain the most expansive continental shelf for Canada."


Read more: Denmark claims North Pole through Arctic underwater ridge | CTV News

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OK I say we let Russia and Denmark fight it out first, and Canada takes on the winner. :canada:
 

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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Denmark has a bigger Navy then we do. This is clear and present danger which obviously is squarely and firstly in the minds of our illustrious military and government. We should attack Denmark. The submarines are almost ready to be towed out to sea.

The best course of action for Canada would be to capitulate, let them have the space. in two years the ice will be a mile thick.

The pole is moving anyway, just wait a while it'll be back in Canada in 200 years, once the ice slides off in the tip over.
 

Machjo

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If Denmark can prove that it owns the North Pole according to international law, then I hope Canada does the civilized thing and acknowledge that truth.
 

taxslave

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If Denmark can prove that it owns the North Pole according to international law, then I hope Canada does the civilized thing and acknowledge that truth.

Why? It is ours right up to the pole. Russia has the other side except for a thin slice running up from Alaska that might belong to the US. If they can first prove that they legally bought Alaska in the first place since there is a good chance it already belonged to the Hudson Bay Company and not Russia. There really is nothing else to discuss.
 

MHz

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That would be the 2nd shot in the war. Canada puts their flag on floating ice, Russia already anchored one to the sea bed/ Russia probably won't fight over sea ice, will Canada go and remove the Russian flag and plant their own? I would think we would have to show that we have developed our North so much that expanding mineral rights would be justified and financially possible. Russia and China could finance exploration tomorrow and subs would be the norm of a country with no warm water ports. It would also be the right conditions to build robots to mine such places as the moon, or to produce local power so the bots are always fully charged. Probably a more solid idea than tunneling in ice in Antarctica only to find the ice is always moving to the tunnels can never be secure unless you are driving the coring machine.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/02/world/europe/02cnd-artic.html?_r=0

Russia is about 1200km from the pole, Canada is 1,000 more than that if you measure from the mainland. Iceland and Greenland would seem to be in place to throw their flags in the ring as far as ownership which would be royalty fees. Russia has no competition for who owns the tail end of the Atlantic Rift and mountains are where you find all sorts of treasure and underwater would almost eliminate erosion so gold would not be scattered around like it is in the Yukon. The cap itself looks like a single sheet of part of the Canadian Shield, rock slight softer than diamond.
 
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darkbeaver

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If Denmark can prove that it owns the North Pole according to international law, then I hope Canada does the civilized thing and acknowledge that truth.

I think you're correct and since the submarines are behind some sort of schedual again we will be unable to address the matter otherwise. My plan was to hide the subs in the cod fleets on the grandbanks and sink Danish frigates like ducks. The plan is obviously dated. Fish are unreliable.

ARCHIVED - Royal Canadian Navy Submarines: Fleet Status

www.forces.gc.ca/en/news/article.page?doc...canadian...submarines-fleet...
Jun 9, 2014 - The Victoria-class submarine fleet continues to progress towards a steady state where three of four submarines will be available for operations.

Well I guess that's the end of the world domination game for us. If there was a cod fleet it could sink us.
 

lone wolf

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"Continues to progress" going forward in other words, Canada is the laughing stock of the planet, a stupid backward sandwhich filling between two or more Empires. Isolation is the remedy for us.



Basalt, that's a guess, Think I read it, maybe it's new

Somewhere from some other lifetime, I recall 'granitic occlusion from basalt'. If it's basalt, it isn't continental - shelf or otherwise - so it's pretty much up for grabs. Canada's closest legal claim is short of the North Pole by about 450 miles. Greenland is closer and Russia's is a bit farther back.

Play nice up there, kids
 

waldo

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Why? It is ours right up to the pole. Russia has the other side except for a thin slice running up from Alaska that might belong to the US. If they can first prove that they legally bought Alaska in the first place since there is a good chance it already belonged to the Hudson Bay Company and not Russia. There really is nothing else to discuss.

citation request

If Denmark can prove that it owns the North Pole according to international law, then I hope Canada does the civilized thing and acknowledge that truth.

Harper's got a ton of photo-ops from his yearly staged trips to the north... surely those will count for something!
 

MHz

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That would be the 2nd shot in the war. Canada puts their flag on floating ice, Russia already anchored one to the sea bed/ Russia probably won't fight over sea ice, will Canada go and remove the Russian flag and plant their own? I would think we would have to show that we have developed our North so much that expanding mineral rights would be justified and financially possible. Russia and China could finance exploration tomorrow and subs would be the norm of a country with no warm water ports. It would also be the right conditions to build robots to mine such places as the moon, or to produce local power so the bots are always fully charged. Probably a more solid idea than tunneling in ice in Antarctica only to find the ice is always moving to the tunnels can never be secure unless you are driving the coring machine.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/02/world/europe/02cnd-artic.html?_r=0

Russia is about 1200km from the pole, Canada is 1,000 more than that if you measure from the mainland. Iceland and Greenland would seem to be in place to throw their flags in the ring as far as ownership which would be royalty fees. Russia has no competition for who owns the tail end of the Atlantic Rift and mountains are where you find all sorts of treasure and underwater would almost eliminate erosion so gold would not be scattered around like it is in the Yukon. The cap itself looks like a single sheet of part of the Canadian Shield, rock slight softer than diamond.

Not worth it's own thread but the Yukon Gold series has one miner rigging up and old dredge and since he is one of the smarter ones on the show he is going to do all the upgrades he can like making the gold catching shoots into the ridged wheel that returns very clean gold and it never needs to stop to be cleaned out and via a camera the operator would be able to see the wheel and speed it up or down as needed by an almost silent electric motor. In all you could stack 5 so the last one was the cold catcher and the previous 4 were the 'scrubbers' with bristles that scrubs the material that comes in. The scrubbing action would be more important when taking on the old tailing piles. The reason to take them on is they hold gold and the ground has already been moved once so it is loose and it is above the water line so the frost is water free and it breaks up easily so the season doesn't end if the cats go ahead in the summer and windrow as much as they can, the amount the dredge can do in it's longer season.
I'm pretty some subs could be rewired to do something similar in the polar mountains. Exploration in Afghanistan for rare materials has been done, the extraction part hasn't because there are no roads that will carry heavy machines, water exploration doesn't need roads it needs boats and because of the ice that means under-water boats. We would crap our pants and nuke them if they said they were building a fleet of 1,000 'new class' of very large subs. How many loads have to make it to shore before the USD is rubble compared to the ruble? It isn't like we don't have enough wild places of our own to develop that is easier once the roads are in place, spend money to make money.

Annex Greenland?? How about if Russia and Iceland co-op on a crevice surface mining adventure, they have an over abundance of electricity and they are debt free at the moment. If they can map the territories by air I'm sure subs can do an even better job if they have probes they can send out to get up close and personal with the exposed rock. We would have to drill and that leaves only a few options open, just what we need, more NG. The NG find off the north shore should be running the machines that bore their way towards South America. If we leave the tailings in a specific pattern what was washed down before could be captured by a creek designed to catch such things as gold in that it is totally altered in the mining process. Slury pumps in use today would be the Tonka Toys of mining on that scale. If we aren't smart enough to show the wildlife how to move aside while we come through then we would probably leave a mess behind us rather than something they can live with.

We would make more money turning the Hudson's Bay into a fish farm and sell the product as organic when really it is surplus Prairie grain, at least nobody can steal it and if you keep them fed the won't swim away. Miners like fish, btw.

Harper's got a ton of photo-ops from his yearly staged trips to the north... surely those will count for something!
Damn rights, I have one of him holding back a walking Polar Bear with just one hand raised and saying 'How, . . . how dare you (insert Putin slam) (note to self, ait brush out the droopy drawers that are sure to be in the photo shoot even if the telephotoed bear is only 3 months old) Riding has already been done, how about Polar Bear chewing on Kodiak Bear and helmet head is paring his nails? Had it not 11teen minutes ago.
 

MHz

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citation request
How about the First Nations file a complaint that they signed while under duress and without council as proven by all the loop-holes that even a child at law would have had altered in a real world contract. They would in fact become our landlords and the money we sent to the European Banks would be sent to the First Nations with a note asking they reopen the Smoke Houses and the next pkase is sure to hut as we shed our former addictions that started with the invasion of the Hudson's Bay Thieves. Stolen land is tainted land, come back when you are ready to pay the price the land is worth today and the profits from tomorrow can be ours, as it is we owe a lot of back rent. (smoke house visits are free) If we are already in a dream would then their medicine would be the undream me part of reality, in theory, I hear drugs are fun, that is why they are illegal, people will pay some crazy money for them so there must be more to the story that eveybody just wants an unshakable addiction with zero plusses. No more crazy weed things like tobacco.

Anyone know if the ridge is basalt or granite?
This ridge?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5OBTUtBNgU&list=PL39830AF13F66DB72

Anyone know if the ridge is basalt or granite?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwmaadfTR7I&list=PL39830AF13F66DB72&index=3

3:30 Primordial mantle, real name is at the time-stamp. The guy is laughing because that area is so rich with minerals just laying around. lol
 

JLM

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Denmark claims North Pole through Arctic underwater ridge



An Arctic expert says an unspoken agreement between Arctic nations on how to divvy up northern seas is all but dead now that Denmark is presenting scientific data that it says gives it a claim on waters past the North Pole.



"The government's objective has been to obtain the most expansive continental shelf for Canada."


Read more: Denmark claims North Pole through Arctic underwater ridge | CTV News

...................................................

OK I say we let Russia and Denmark fight it out first, and Canada takes on the winner. :canada:


I think it may all depend on who subtends more of the pole, Canada or Russia! (I'll try to find out what Goggle says)