UK Gov In Turmoil & Bexit Mess.
- Thread starter Ocean Breeze
- Start date
All right.
Show the links that say all this cause I sure as hell am not taking your word on it.
No, I'm not a liar.
Funny how you liken me to a fascist when I want the EU referendum result to be enacted.
You seem about as bright as a solar eclipse.
Brexit will happen. Once nationalists get going, it's very difficult to stop them. They don't stop until it happens.
The backstop has gone, you cretin.
I know Remainers said Boris wouldn't be able to remove it from Theresa's deal but he has done - because he's a highly intelligent man.
The big star in the Commons yesterday, apart from Boris, was Theresa.
The former PM likely voted Remain in the referendum but, unlike many Remainers, she loves her country and is a democrat. She tried to deliver Brexit but unfortunately - nice woman that she is - her deal wasn't good enough. I dont think she was trying to scupper Brexit. It's just that she doesn't have the ability of Boris - probably the cleverest politician in Britain right now. She made a long speech to the Commons saying how they must vote for Boris's deal or else they will have betrayed the British people.
She also mentioned our mighty England rugby union team destroying our great rivals Australia in the Rugby World Cup.
It's a shame Theresa wasn't more like this when she was PM:
The former PM likely voted Remain in the referendum but, unlike many Remainers, she loves her country and is a democrat. She tried to deliver Brexit but unfortunately - nice woman that she is - her deal wasn't good enough. I dont think she was trying to scupper Brexit. It's just that she doesn't have the ability of Boris - probably the cleverest politician in Britain right now. She made a long speech to the Commons saying how they must vote for Boris's deal or else they will have betrayed the British people.
She also mentioned our mighty England rugby union team destroying our great rivals Australia in the Rugby World Cup.
It's a shame Theresa wasn't more like this when she was PM:
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Brexit: UK will leave EU this month, ministers insist
20 October 2019
BBC News
Ministers insist the UK will leave the EU by 31 October, despite a letter sent to Brussels asking for a delay.
Boris Johnson sent the letter - unsigned - after a major setback in the Commons to his Brexit strategy.
But the request was accompanied by a second letter, signed by the PM, saying he believed a delay would be a mistake.
Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab said the PM had "proved the doubters wrong" by getting a new deal and he was confident Brexit would still happen on Halloween.
His colleague, Michael Gove, told Sky News' Sophy Ridge the government had "the means and ability" to leave on 31 October.
EU Council President Donald Tusk has acknowledged receipt of the UK's extension request and said he would consult EU leaders "on how to react".
Mr Johnson has spoken to fellow leaders and Mr Tusk, telling them the letter "is Parliament's letter, not my letter".
Labour is accusing the prime minister of "being childlike" by sending a second letter contradicting the first.
The government has vowed to press ahead with the legislation to implement the Brexit deal next week, but Labour says it will seek to amend it - to add additional measures on issues like workers' rights and environmental protections.
Shadow Brexit secretary Keir Starmer also said his party would support an amendment requiring the deal to be put to another referendum which he believed would inevitably be tabled.
The prime minster had intended to bring his deal to Parliament on Saturday - the first such sitting in the Commons for 37 years - and ask MPs to approve it.
However, MPs instead voted in favour of an amendment withholding approval of the deal until all the necessary legislation to implement it had been passed.
Tabled by Tory MP Sir Oliver Letwin, the amendment was intended to ensure that Mr Johnson would comply with the terms of the so-called Benn Act designed to eliminate any possibility of a no-deal exit on 31 October.
Under that act, Mr Johnson had until 23:00 BST on Saturday to send a letter requesting a delay to the UK's departure - something he did, albeit without his signature.
Mr Letwin told the BBC's Andrew Marr his amendment was "an insurance policy" and now it had passed, he would give his full support to the prime minister's deal.
However, Mr Gove, who as chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster is in charge of no-deal planning, accused those who backed it of voting "explicitly to try to frustrate this process and to drag it out"
He said "the prime minister's determination is absolute" and the government's "determined policy" was to meet the 31 October deadline.
"We know that the EU want us to leave, we know that we have a deal that allows us to leave," he added.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50115151
20 October 2019
BBC News
Ministers insist the UK will leave the EU by 31 October, despite a letter sent to Brussels asking for a delay.
Boris Johnson sent the letter - unsigned - after a major setback in the Commons to his Brexit strategy.
But the request was accompanied by a second letter, signed by the PM, saying he believed a delay would be a mistake.
Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab said the PM had "proved the doubters wrong" by getting a new deal and he was confident Brexit would still happen on Halloween.
His colleague, Michael Gove, told Sky News' Sophy Ridge the government had "the means and ability" to leave on 31 October.
EU Council President Donald Tusk has acknowledged receipt of the UK's extension request and said he would consult EU leaders "on how to react".
Mr Johnson has spoken to fellow leaders and Mr Tusk, telling them the letter "is Parliament's letter, not my letter".
Labour is accusing the prime minister of "being childlike" by sending a second letter contradicting the first.
The government has vowed to press ahead with the legislation to implement the Brexit deal next week, but Labour says it will seek to amend it - to add additional measures on issues like workers' rights and environmental protections.
Shadow Brexit secretary Keir Starmer also said his party would support an amendment requiring the deal to be put to another referendum which he believed would inevitably be tabled.
The prime minster had intended to bring his deal to Parliament on Saturday - the first such sitting in the Commons for 37 years - and ask MPs to approve it.
However, MPs instead voted in favour of an amendment withholding approval of the deal until all the necessary legislation to implement it had been passed.
Tabled by Tory MP Sir Oliver Letwin, the amendment was intended to ensure that Mr Johnson would comply with the terms of the so-called Benn Act designed to eliminate any possibility of a no-deal exit on 31 October.
Under that act, Mr Johnson had until 23:00 BST on Saturday to send a letter requesting a delay to the UK's departure - something he did, albeit without his signature.
Mr Letwin told the BBC's Andrew Marr his amendment was "an insurance policy" and now it had passed, he would give his full support to the prime minister's deal.
However, Mr Gove, who as chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster is in charge of no-deal planning, accused those who backed it of voting "explicitly to try to frustrate this process and to drag it out"
He said "the prime minister's determination is absolute" and the government's "determined policy" was to meet the 31 October deadline.
"We know that the EU want us to leave, we know that we have a deal that allows us to leave," he added.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50115151
ROBIN HARRIS: Puffed-up Tory popinjays put petty vendettas ahead of our national interest
By Robin Harris For The Mail On Sunday
19 October 2019
Former Conservative MP Oliver Letwin is pictured in Westminster yesterday
Brexit has become a never-ending national crisis for one reason only. It is because this shambolic Parliament will not do its political, constitutional and moral duty. And chief among those to blame are the wreckers led by ex-Tories Oliver Letwin, Dominic Grieve and Philip Hammond.
They have just one hope of entering the history books: with little or nothing to show for their lengthy political careers, they think they can achieve stardom by stopping Brexit.
Taking their ground on the principle ascribed to the great Anglo-Irish statesman, Edmund Burke, they believe that MPs owe the electors not their obedience but their judgment. An arguable point – but an irrelevant one. For they have no judgment.
Despite his naive charm – now wearing thin – Sir Oliver has never demonstrated any kind of judgment or practical common sense in anything.
Only he could now argue, and probably even believe, that he is supporting Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s deal by delaying it.
Yet the practical effect is that the deal is now open to being subverted by further delays and demands for a second referendum.
Ex-Tories Dominic Grieve (left) and Philip Hammond (right) are also among the wreckers
When it comes to former Attorney General Grieve and ex-Chancellor Hammond, the stench of bitterness and rancour is there for all to see.
They were shamefully putting their personal vendettas above our country’s national interest.
It is possible that some further dose of national humiliation will yet be forced on Britain by the parliamentary wreckers before the Brexit trauma ends.
The tutors of today’s Letwins, Grieves and Hammonds are such anti-Thatcher Conservative grandees as Sir John Major, Michael Heseltine and Ken Clarke. And their behaviour is roughly what one would expect.
If the grandees’ rhetoric is more extreme and the ambitions more bizarre than in the past – in Mr Clarke’s case, it seems, to become an anti-Brexit Prime Minister without a sliver of legitimacy or scintilla of a mandate – one should put this down to the fact that in today’s politics almost anything goes.
For Sir John – a former Prime Minister who himself once sought a prorogation of Parliament for dubious political ends – to testify in court against the actions of his successor marked not just gross hypocrisy but a form of derangement.
To frustrate Brexit, it seems, any disgraceful behaviour is condoned. No one suggests, for instance, that it constitutes a kind of treason to plead, as a group of Remainer MPs did, with the European Union to reject the PM’s proposals at a moment of grave national crisis.
But, quite unexpectedly for most Westminster watchers, a genuine national political hero has emerged – shaggy, impulsive, flawed, but transparently patriotic and with the essential attributes of courage, luck and shrewdness that constitute practical statesmanship.
To be numbered among the greats – such as Margaret Thatcher – Boris Johnson will have to last a few more years.
But already in a very special sense he is her successor because he has been grappling with the problem of Europe that she knew she never mastered – to her regret. Describing in her memoirs that bitter EU Rome summit of October 1990 – the last before she was thrown out of office – when Brussels decided to press ahead with political and economic union under what would become the Maastricht Treaty, she writes: ‘They were not interested in compromise. My objections were heard in stony silence.
‘I now had no support. I just had to say no.’
Had Mrs Thatcher remained in office, and not been replaced by the malleable and mediocre John Major, she would have vetoed that process of ever greater union, and Britain would not have been faced with the present traumas.
Further European integration would have had to take place under new treaties. Mrs Thatcher, though, was ousted by plotters – and here the continuity becomes evident.
So it is not just since 2016 that the British people have been arguing about Europe. It began in the late 1980s under Mrs Thatcher, who in retirement concluded that we must leave altogether, and it has continued increasingly loudly and bitterly ever since.
Apart from the puffed-up political popinjays in Parliament, everyone else is by now desperately tired of it all.
To ordinary people, the referendum result was decisive. Whichever way they voted, most just want it done, and to move on to other things.
Opinion polls confirm this – if anything they suggest a strengthening in Brexit support and a wide and growing degree of acceptance of a No-Deal Brexit, if that finally proves necessary.
Mr Johnson’s proposed deal will, therefore, certainly play well in the country as Britain gears up for an early General Election.
The immediate future, depending on the antics of parliamentary poseurs, on uncertain parliamentary arithmetic and on the shameless partisanship of Speaker John Bercow, is unpredictable.
The PM’s deal may or may not, this time round, survive. But the British people do in the end have the final say.
And when they speak, it looks increasingly likely that Mr Johnson will be returned as Prime Minister with a working majority and a mandate to restore the standing of a sovereign Britain.
ROBIN HARRIS was Margaret Thatcher's former speechwriter, policy adviser and biographer
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/...-petty-vendettas-ahead-national-interest.html
By Robin Harris For The Mail On Sunday
19 October 2019
Former Conservative MP Oliver Letwin is pictured in Westminster yesterday
Brexit has become a never-ending national crisis for one reason only. It is because this shambolic Parliament will not do its political, constitutional and moral duty. And chief among those to blame are the wreckers led by ex-Tories Oliver Letwin, Dominic Grieve and Philip Hammond.
They have just one hope of entering the history books: with little or nothing to show for their lengthy political careers, they think they can achieve stardom by stopping Brexit.
Taking their ground on the principle ascribed to the great Anglo-Irish statesman, Edmund Burke, they believe that MPs owe the electors not their obedience but their judgment. An arguable point – but an irrelevant one. For they have no judgment.
Despite his naive charm – now wearing thin – Sir Oliver has never demonstrated any kind of judgment or practical common sense in anything.
Only he could now argue, and probably even believe, that he is supporting Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s deal by delaying it.
Yet the practical effect is that the deal is now open to being subverted by further delays and demands for a second referendum.
Ex-Tories Dominic Grieve (left) and Philip Hammond (right) are also among the wreckers
When it comes to former Attorney General Grieve and ex-Chancellor Hammond, the stench of bitterness and rancour is there for all to see.
They were shamefully putting their personal vendettas above our country’s national interest.
It is possible that some further dose of national humiliation will yet be forced on Britain by the parliamentary wreckers before the Brexit trauma ends.
The tutors of today’s Letwins, Grieves and Hammonds are such anti-Thatcher Conservative grandees as Sir John Major, Michael Heseltine and Ken Clarke. And their behaviour is roughly what one would expect.
If the grandees’ rhetoric is more extreme and the ambitions more bizarre than in the past – in Mr Clarke’s case, it seems, to become an anti-Brexit Prime Minister without a sliver of legitimacy or scintilla of a mandate – one should put this down to the fact that in today’s politics almost anything goes.
For Sir John – a former Prime Minister who himself once sought a prorogation of Parliament for dubious political ends – to testify in court against the actions of his successor marked not just gross hypocrisy but a form of derangement.
To frustrate Brexit, it seems, any disgraceful behaviour is condoned. No one suggests, for instance, that it constitutes a kind of treason to plead, as a group of Remainer MPs did, with the European Union to reject the PM’s proposals at a moment of grave national crisis.
But, quite unexpectedly for most Westminster watchers, a genuine national political hero has emerged – shaggy, impulsive, flawed, but transparently patriotic and with the essential attributes of courage, luck and shrewdness that constitute practical statesmanship.
To be numbered among the greats – such as Margaret Thatcher – Boris Johnson will have to last a few more years.
But already in a very special sense he is her successor because he has been grappling with the problem of Europe that she knew she never mastered – to her regret. Describing in her memoirs that bitter EU Rome summit of October 1990 – the last before she was thrown out of office – when Brussels decided to press ahead with political and economic union under what would become the Maastricht Treaty, she writes: ‘They were not interested in compromise. My objections were heard in stony silence.
‘I now had no support. I just had to say no.’
Had Mrs Thatcher remained in office, and not been replaced by the malleable and mediocre John Major, she would have vetoed that process of ever greater union, and Britain would not have been faced with the present traumas.
Further European integration would have had to take place under new treaties. Mrs Thatcher, though, was ousted by plotters – and here the continuity becomes evident.
So it is not just since 2016 that the British people have been arguing about Europe. It began in the late 1980s under Mrs Thatcher, who in retirement concluded that we must leave altogether, and it has continued increasingly loudly and bitterly ever since.
Apart from the puffed-up political popinjays in Parliament, everyone else is by now desperately tired of it all.
To ordinary people, the referendum result was decisive. Whichever way they voted, most just want it done, and to move on to other things.
Opinion polls confirm this – if anything they suggest a strengthening in Brexit support and a wide and growing degree of acceptance of a No-Deal Brexit, if that finally proves necessary.
Mr Johnson’s proposed deal will, therefore, certainly play well in the country as Britain gears up for an early General Election.
The immediate future, depending on the antics of parliamentary poseurs, on uncertain parliamentary arithmetic and on the shameless partisanship of Speaker John Bercow, is unpredictable.
The PM’s deal may or may not, this time round, survive. But the British people do in the end have the final say.
And when they speak, it looks increasingly likely that Mr Johnson will be returned as Prime Minister with a working majority and a mandate to restore the standing of a sovereign Britain.
ROBIN HARRIS was Margaret Thatcher's former speechwriter, policy adviser and biographer
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/...-petty-vendettas-ahead-national-interest.html
We will never forgive Oliver Letwin: Howl of rage from MP's Leave-voting constituency after he torpedoed Brexit
Rebel alliance leader Sir Oliver Letwin faced a furious backlash from his Leave-voting constituency on Friday for thwarting Boris Johnson's Brexit deal. Voters in his West Dorset seat voiced disbelief that their MP, who is standing down at the next General Election, had led the move to delay Brexit yet again. Leave-voting Tory candidate for the seat Chris Loder also claimed residents were even asking if Sir Oliver - who now sits as an independent MP - had in fact 'changed allegiances' and was now backing the openly anti-Brexit Liberal Democrats.
Rebel alliance leader Sir Oliver Letwin faced a furious backlash from his Leave-voting constituency on Friday for thwarting Boris Johnson's Brexit deal. Voters in his West Dorset seat voiced disbelief that their MP, who is standing down at the next General Election, had led the move to delay Brexit yet again. Leave-voting Tory candidate for the seat Chris Loder also claimed residents were even asking if Sir Oliver - who now sits as an independent MP - had in fact 'changed allegiances' and was now backing the openly anti-Brexit Liberal Democrats.
Oliver was given his knighthood in 2016 when Cameron
rewarded his cronies - including Oliver - with an assortment of gongs when he resigned as PM after he lost the referendum.
The knighthood is completely undeserving. He has a history of angering voters. During the 1980s he championed Thatcher's hated Poll Tax, and it was his idea to test it on the Scots first, which led to the Tories being hated in Scotland for years.
Following riots by black youths in London in 1985 he helped deter Thatcher's plans to assist young unemployed black youths.
Back in 2001, Letwin, then shadow chief secretary to the Treasury, came close to derailing the Tory general election campaign after suggesting that the Conservatives planned to cut taxes by £20bn, more than double the amount pledged by the then party leader, William Hague.
In 2003, Letwin risked the Tories’ attempts to rebrand themselves as the party for ordinary working families when he claimed he would rather beg on the street than send his children to the local state school in south London.
The Eton and Cambridge-educated politician conceded that he “wouldn’t mind” using a state school in his West Dorset constituency, but added that he aimed to get his 10-year-old daughter into “a particular public school in London”.
The following year Letwin told a private meeting that the “NHS will not exist” within five years of a Conservative election victory.
Letwin was branded “the most controversial politician in Sheffield” by the then deputy prime minister, Nick Clegg, for allegedly saying he did not want to see more families in the city taking cheap foreign holidays.
The accusation came after London Mayor Boris Johnson told a meeting that he was “absolutely scandalised” to hear the remarks from a then unnamed minister, which the London Mayor described as “a kind of bourgeois repression of people’s ability to take holidays”.
And now, in 2019, he is scuppering Johnson's attempts to take Britain out of the EU, even though that is the main reason why the Conservatives were elected into power - to deliver Brexit.
So, as you can see, Oliver's knighthood is hardly deserved.
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the backstop is not gone.
everything the EU demanded is being conceded by a weak leader with no mandate