Student's 'Jesus' shirt sparks feud with school


Locutus
#1
A Christian student suspended from a high school in Nova Scotia for sporting a T-shirt with the slogan "Life is wasted without Jesus" vows to wear it when he returns to class next week.

William Swinimer, who's in Grade 12, was suspended from Forest Heights Community School in Chester Basin in Lunenburg County for five days. He's due to return to class on Monday.

The devout Christian says the T-shirt is an expression of his beliefs, and he won't stop wearing it.

"I believe there are things that are bigger than me. And I think that I need to stand up for the rights of people in this country, and religious rights and freedom of speech," he told CBC.

Officials with the South Shore Regional School Board plan to meet with Swinimer to hopefully reach a compromise.






more wtf here:


Student's 'Jesus' shirt sparks feud with school - Nova Scotia - CBC News
 
Most helpful post: The members here have rated this post as best reply.
Colpy
+3
#2
But Sikhs get to carry weapons......uh-huh.

We have gone insane.
 
DaSleeper
+5
#3  Top Rated Post
And this T Shirt would be perfectly alright

 
gerryh
+2
#4
WTF about sums it up.
 
TenPenny
#5
I'm pretty sure that in the lead up to the Vancouver Olympics, someone told me that Sikhs are allowed to wear replica weapons in public because they are a requirement of their religion, and for the life of me, I'm sure that was Colpy who said it.

I could be wrong, though.
 
Colpy
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeperView Post

And this T Shirt would be perfectly alright

Yep.

Of course, most of the kids wearing it would think it was the lead singer of Rage Against the Machine.

Perfectly OK, in my books.

Quote: Originally Posted by TenPennyView Post

I'm pretty sure that in the lead up to the Vancouver Olympics, someone told me that Sikhs are allowed to wear replica weapons in public because they are a requirement of their religion, and for the life of me, I'm sure that was Colpy who said it.

I could be wrong, though.



You would be wrong, this time.

The exemption of Sikhs from laws preventing the carrying of weapons has long been a pet peeve of mine.
 
SLM
+1
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

Yep.

Of course, most of the kids wearing it would think it was the lead singer of Rage Against the Machine.

Perfectly OK, in my books.

Isn't a version of that T-shirt out with the slogan "Who's this guy?"?

Kind of says it all doesn't it?
 
WLDB
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeperView Post

And this T Shirt would be perfectly alright

Most people who own one of those shirts dont know who he was. I imagine he'd be pissed if he had known his face was going to become a commodity.

The school really over-reacted on this.
 
taxslave
#9
That is definitely one of the stupider things a school boar has done.
 
Bar Sinister
#10
I don't have a problem with it as long as other students are allowed to wear shirts advocating their atheistic convictions or otherwise.
 
Galadriel
#11
Do you not have school uniforms over there ?
 
wulfie68
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar SinisterView Post

I don't have a problem with it as long as other students are allowed to wear shirts advocating their atheistic convictions or otherwise.

Exactly. And if the schools in this area allow Che Guevara t-shirts, they've already opened that door.

This story reminds me of what is going on in SW Pennsylvania right now: a 13 yr old was suspended for refusing to rise and recite the US Pledge of Allegiance. Some are onside with the school board but many others state that this IS counter to the philosophical base that the US (and pretty much all our modern Western gov'ts) are founded on. Many who support the girl, say its not for the school to influence the political/nationalistic/patriotic leanings of the kid, but rather the parents have the obligation to teach where taking such stands is and is not appropriate/well thought out.
 
Cliffy
+1
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by GaladrielView Post

Do you not have school uniforms over there ?

No, unless you call dressing like ghetto hoods and/or teen music idols.

Quote: Originally Posted by wulfie68View Post

Exactly. And if the schools in this area allow Che Guevara t-shirts, they've already opened that door.

This story reminds me of what is going on in SW Pennsylvania right now: a 13 yr old was suspended for refusing to rise and recite the US Pledge of Allegiance. Some are onside with the school board but many others state that this IS counter to the philosophical base that the US (and pretty much all our modern Western gov'ts) are founded on. Many who support the girl, say its not for the school to influence the political/nationalistic/patriotic leanings of the kid, but rather the parents have the obligation to teach where taking such stands is and is not appropriate/well thought out.

Which proves my contention that schools are there to mold children and not educate them.

I wonder what would happen if I wore a t-shirt to church that said: "Duck! Jesus is cumming soon".
 
Praxius
+1 / -1
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

But Sikhs get to carry weapons......uh-huh.

We have gone insane.

The difference is that they're not shoving those knives in other people's faces in public schools, trying to pressure and manipulate others into following their own beliefs.

The Knives are no different than wearing a Cross or Star of David around your neck or wearing a Burqa or Turban.... which is perfectly fine. But when you start going around with messages or telling others your way is the right way and spreading propaganda in a publicly funded educational institution, you cross the line, just like this kid did.

They all have the right to believe and practice whatever religion they all want to.... but they do not have the right to advertise and shove propaganda in the faces of their fellow students.

You wouldn't like it if some Muslim kid went around the classrooms telling people to follow his religion?

That's basically what this kid was doing.

He was wearing a shirt that basically stated: "If you don't believe in Jesus and Follow his Teachings, your life is worthless and your a waste."

Let's keep in mind that this was "Forest Heights Community School" ~ Not "Forest Heights Private Catholic/Christian School"

If he comes back wearing the shirt out of deliberate protest against the school's rules, then he should be expelled and not graduate.

He has no right to make other students uncomfortable or to trash their differing beliefs by advertising a slogan saying they're wasting their lives and thus, a waste themselves. If he's allowed to do that, then you can expect Muslims, Jewish, and every other belief/group out there to come through the doors with their own slogans and advertisements trashing each other's beliefs and shoving their own in other's faces.... and anybody with common sense should know where that's going to eventually lead to.

Somebody or some group of kids are going to get the crap beaten out of them by another group..... that's why you keep church and state separate in the first place.

Believe what you want.... practice what you believe, but show the same respect to others who don't believe what you do and don't shove your BS down their throats.

^ It's not rocket science and if more religious people practiced this, there'd be a hell of a lot more tolerance in the world. Hell, the majority of atheists would probably tolerate religious people a lot more if they stopped shoving their omnipotence into everybody's face.

This kid's an idiot and got exactly what he deserved.
Last edited by Praxius; May 4th, 2012 at 10:52 AM..
 
PoliticalNick
+1
#15
The schools have waging a war on individualism for years now. Cliffy is right, they want to mold the kids into brainless, robotic sheeple and nothing more.

A suspension for a t-shirt??? WTF is far to nice a way to react. If this had been my kid I would have snapped, lost it even. Probably would have bought a crap load of the shirts and given them to any student who would wear it. Maybe a box load with the slogan "teachers do it with class". I'm sure some of you remember that one.

All said and done it's a f*cking shirt with his expression of free speech. It's not like he showed up naked!

I think the school is just upset that his brainwashing technique was interfering with theirs.
 
Niflmir
#16
We're talking about an environment where a person is not allowed to chew gum, defend themselves, and it was already known that they were not free to wear what they want to. I remember bans on such stupid things as Marilyn Manson shirts in Nova Scotia, so... nothing new there.

School in Canada more and more bears absolutely no resemblance to society. Well, maybe just Nova Scotia, if students elsewhere can actually defend themselves without being suspended.
 
Praxius
+2
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNickView Post

The schools have waging a war on individualism for years now. Cliffy is right, they want to mold the kids into brainless, robotic sheeple and nothing more.

A suspension for a t-shirt??? WTF is far to nice a way to react. If this had been my kid I would have snapped, lost it even. Probably would have bought a crap load of the shirts and given them to any student who would wear it. Maybe a box load with the slogan "teachers do it with class". I'm sure some of you remember that one.

All said and done it's a f*cking shirt with his expression of free speech. It's not like he showed up naked!

I think the school is just upset that his brainwashing technique was interfering with theirs.

What brainwashing are you talking about?

They teach you math, science, english, french, etc... they teach you the basics. They may teach you the history behind things which include some religions and cultures, but they are not supposed to tell you which one is the best or which one is more right than the other.

The only time I ever experienced brainwashing in a public school was when I was in primary & grade 1, when we still had to pray and thank God for our lunch before we ate, and how many of the teachers pushed their Christian beliefs on us from time to time.... which all but stopped in the late 80's.

Schools are not teaching children to be brainless automatons..... I'm not the biggest fan of schools, but even I know such a claim is just silly.

They're there to teach kids the basics. To teach them how to read, write, count and basically function in society when they graduate......

Oh I forgot.... they're also teaching kids to try and at least be a little more tolerant to those around them who are different than they are.

Now if not teaching kids to believe in one specific God, to not shove your religious beliefs in other people's faces and to not treat those different from you as lower human beings than yourself because you think you're more right than they are & to promote tolerance of others...... somehow translates to making children brainless robots and is some how a bad thing, then it sounds to me like somebody's just not liking that their favorite religion isn't getting a free pass anymore.

I've seen plenty of kids in my school be sent home or get suspended for wearing something offensive.

One of my friends had a shirt that said "Energize Her" and showed a bunch of pink Energizer bunnies in various sex positions.

prior to that, multiple students were sent home back when the overalls were in fashion with one shoulder strap not buttoned. Teachers said if you're not going to wear them properly, you don't come to school wearing them at all.

Those who continued to repeat this after being told more than once, ended up getting suspended.

It's no different than if a student continued to wear their hat in class or during the anthem, or continually refuses to take it off when asked/told to..... it's the same as chewing gum in class and refusing to stop when asked/told to.

The teachers have every right to discipline kids who want to be jackasses because they think they can get away with it & because they think teachers can't do anything about it.

Teachers can and they will. My father has been teaching in Nova Scotia since around 1975 and is one of the upper members in the NSTU. They all have a little book that states what they can and can't do when it comes to students being little sh*ts, just like this punk.

Getting back to the OP, I noticed the OP avoided some of the other quotes in the report that explain the situation a bit more than the out-of-context details the OP supplied, such as:

Quote:

Nancy Pynch-Worthylake, board superintendent, said some students and teachers found the T-shirt offensive.

"When one is able or others are able to interpret it as, 'If you don't share my belief then your life is wasted,' that can be interpreted by some as being inappropriate," she said.

When I made similar comments above as this quote, I didn't even read the full news report.... funny how me just stating my common sense on the situation matches almost word for word their reasons for taking their actions.

It's not that they were worried some teachers and students would find it offensive.... They did find it offensive.

Also just as important, if not more:

Quote:

Swinimer wore the T-shirt every day to class for several weeks. The principal told him repeatedly to stop wearing it, but the student refused to comply.

^ Right there is clear justification for his suspension and if this bible-thumping crack pot can't clue in as to why there has been such an issue over this that he ended up being suspended after being told multiple times, then he's a complete moron and got exactly what he deserved.

Quote: Originally Posted by LocutusView Post

^ If you and a couple of others in here actually read the report beyond the first two paragraphs, you wouldn't be asking "WTF?" in the first damn place, as this situation is pretty clear on what happened and why.

So stop acting like the whole world has gone nuts, because if you opened your eyes and looked around a bit more, you'd see it all makes pretty damn good sense.

Quote:

Swinimer says the principal would have accepted a shirt with the slogan, "My life is wasted without Jesus."

"But I didn't go for that because I have my rights as a Canadian citizen," Swinimer said.

And what rights exactly is he referring to that give him the right to go into a publicly funded educational institution with a slogan that insults and attacks other people's beliefs based on his own religious beliefs?

Quote:

Swinimer says he never intended to attack anyone else's beliefs.

Oh bullsh*t he didn't..... he just trying to get attention & his excuses are pitiful.

He's either trying to get attention, or he's deliberately attempting to create a disturbance, offend other students and teachers and incite a situation that can turn ugly for his own amusement.

And if that's the case, I wouldn't suspend him, I'd expel him from that school as he has repeatedly ignored the school/teachers/principals' rules & requests, he's proven to not give a flying damn for anybody else at the school and their own views/beliefs, directly attacked those beliefs & views with that ugly looking, cheap shirt, continues to defy any reasonable discussion, solution or requests and further wishes to continue to cause a disturbance in the school even though he is fully away of the consequences of doing so.

If he's that "Devout" of a Christian, why the hell did he decide to go to a public school and why didn't he simply go to a Private Christian-Based School??

He's a fk'n moron who wants to be an attention-wh*re, that's why. And the school has been more than patient with this situation & has gone a lot farther than I would have to try and meet him halfway

Quote:

He says he will continue to wear the shirt and is prepared to be suspended the rest of the year.

Good.... he better get real prepared because if that's the attitude he's going to keep, that's the consequence he's going to face.

Hope he's looking forward to repeating Grade 12.

Quote:

The board is looking for some guidance on the matter. It hopes to bring in an expert to help mediate the dispute with Swinimer, his family and church supporters.

"We'll be looking for some people with understanding in this area to help us with that," Pynch-Worthylake said.

Give me a call.... I'll sort this sh*t out real quick.

Quote: Originally Posted by NiflmirView Post

.... School in Canada more and more bears absolutely no resemblance to society. Well, maybe just Nova Scotia, if students elsewhere can actually defend themselves without being suspended.

I've defended myself plenty growing up.... if its a fight started by both persons & agreed to, then both are at fault. If you are attacked, regardless of when or where, school or out around town, you have the legal right to defend yourself.

Where you got this idea that you're punished for defending yourself from physical harm, I have no idea.

Unless you're talking about some other kind of defense?
Last edited by Praxius; May 4th, 2012 at 01:13 PM..
 
SLM
+1
#18
Teen can wear Jesus shirt at school, board rules - Canada - Canoe.ca
 
DaSleeper
+1
#19
So much for the bull in the post above yours.....

The shirt in question....whooptee doo...



any worst than this???

Last edited by DaSleeper; May 4th, 2012 at 06:34 PM..
 
Praxius
+1
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeperView Post

So much for the bull in the post above yours.....

The shirt in question....whooptee doo...



any worst than this???

The difference is that one is a paid ad in an open area approved by a private advertising agency that supplies the ad area on the bus, which doesn't even say "There is no God" as a fact, it states there probably (possibly) is no God.

The other is some punk seeking attention and shoving a more direct & factual statement in a publicly funded school.

And if you can't see the differences between your examples, then there's no hope for you.

The bull above his post?

Sorry, I've not only have educational experience via time in my college years and through my jobs over the years, I've not only had my father explain how things work in the school system over the years, but I also have been working in the advertisement industry for over a decade in both Canada and here in Australia, so I know more about what I'm talking about than you obviously do.

You obviously have your own opinion on this situation and think it's validated by emotional arguments, but reality shows your arguments are flawed and more BS than anything I could crap out.... even if I tried.

And as for the updated news report.... it doesn't surprise me that was going to be the outcome. He wanted attention, he went public to twist the situation in his favor and of course the school folded in order to just let this stupid situation drop so he doesn't get the attention he wants.

Doesn't really matter much at this point, as if he just keeps going to school and shoving his religious crap into everybody's face and the students see that the school isn't doing anything about it..... the students will do something about it themselves.

Which can range from daily targeting of insults, many other students bringing in their own shirts and messages for their own religions or against his religion, to a couple of kids beating the crap out of him.

^ I'm not saying they're justified, but that's teenager mentality in school, as proven by this kid's own black & white attitude. Allowing this crap to go on is just going to escalate into something much worse.

Maybe he'll be lucky to get through Grade 12 and out of school before things go really bad with his fellow students..... the school year is almost over I suppose.

He's still a d*ck.
 
JamesBondo
#21
What if the tshirt said "Life is wasted without a heterosexual lifestyle" or "Life is wasted without white skin"

are those positive slogans, or negative slogans that should be banned? I would hope they are banned.
 
taxslave
+1 / -1
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post

What brainwashing are you talking about?

They teach you math, science, english, french, etc... they teach you the basics. They may teach you the history behind things which include some religions and cultures, but they are not supposed to tell you which one is the best or which one is more right than the other.

The only time I ever experienced brainwashing in a public school was when I was in primary & grade 1, when we still had to pray and thank God for our lunch before we ate, and how many of the teachers pushed their Christian beliefs on us from time to time.... which all but stopped in the late 80's.

Schools are not teaching children to be brainless automatons..... I'm not the biggest fan of schools, but even I know such a claim is just silly.

They're there to teach kids the basics. To teach them how to read, write, count and basically function in society when they graduate......

Oh I forgot.... they're also teaching kids to try and at least be a little more tolerant to those around them who are different than they are.

Now if not teaching kids to believe in one specific God, to not shove your religious beliefs in other people's faces and to not treat those different from you as lower human beings than yourself because you think you're more right than they are & to promote tolerance of others...... somehow translates to making children brainless robots and is some how a bad thing, then it sounds to me like somebody's just not liking that their favorite religion isn't getting a free pass anymore.

I've seen plenty of kids in my school be sent home or get suspended for wearing something offensive.

One of my friends had a shirt that said "Energize Her" and showed a bunch of pink Energizer bunnies in various sex positions.

prior to that, multiple students were sent home back when the overalls were in fashion with one shoulder strap not buttoned. Teachers said if you're not going to wear them properly, you don't come to school wearing them at all.

Those who continued to repeat this after being told more than once, ended up getting suspended.

It's no different than if a student continued to wear their hat in class or during the anthem, or continually refuses to take it off when asked/told to..... it's the same as chewing gum in class and refusing to stop when asked/told to.

The teachers have every right to discipline kids who want to be jackasses because they think they can get away with it & because they think teachers can't do anything about it.

Teachers can and they will. My father has been teaching in Nova Scotia since around 1975 and is one of the upper members in the NSTU. They all have a little book that states what they can and can't do when it comes to students being little sh*ts, just like this punk.

Getting back to the OP, I noticed the OP avoided some of the other quotes in the report that explain the situation a bit more than the out-of-context details the OP supplied, such as:



When I made similar comments above as this quote, I didn't even read the full news report.... funny how me just stating my common sense on the situation matches almost word for word their reasons for taking their actions.

It's not that they were worried some teachers and students would find it offensive.... They did find it offensive.

Also just as important, if not more:



^ Right there is clear justification for his suspension and if this bible-thumping crack pot can't clue in as to why there has been such an issue over this that he ended up being suspended after being told multiple times, then he's a complete moron and got exactly what he deserved.



^ If you and a couple of others in here actually read the report beyond the first two paragraphs, you wouldn't be asking "WTF?" in the first damn place, as this situation is pretty clear on what happened and why.

So stop acting like the whole world has gone nuts, because if you opened your eyes and looked around a bit more, you'd see it all makes pretty damn good sense.



And what rights exactly is he referring to that give him the right to go into a publicly funded educational institution with a slogan that insults and attacks other people's beliefs based on his own religious beliefs?



Oh bullsh*t he didn't..... he just trying to get attention & his excuses are pitiful.

He's either trying to get attention, or he's deliberately attempting to create a disturbance, offend other students and teachers and incite a situation that can turn ugly for his own amusement.

And if that's the case, I wouldn't suspend him, I'd expel him from that school as he has repeatedly ignored the school/teachers/principals' rules & requests, he's proven to not give a flying damn for anybody else at the school and their own views/beliefs, directly attacked those beliefs & views with that ugly looking, cheap shirt, continues to defy any reasonable discussion, solution or requests and further wishes to continue to cause a disturbance in the school even though he is fully away of the consequences of doing so.

If he's that "Devout" of a Christian, why the hell did he decide to go to a public school and why didn't he simply go to a Private Christian-Based School??

He's a fk'n moron who wants to be an attention-wh*re, that's why. And the school has been more than patient with this situation & has gone a lot farther than I would have to try and meet him halfway



Good.... he better get real prepared because if that's the attitude he's going to keep, that's the consequence he's going to face.

Hope he's looking forward to repeating Grade 12.



Give me a call.... I'll sort this sh*t out real quick.



I've defended myself plenty growing up.... if its a fight started by both persons & agreed to, then both are at fault. If you are attacked, regardless of when or where, school or out around town, you have the legal right to defend yourself.

Where you got this idea that you're punished for defending yourself from physical harm, I have no idea.

Unless you're talking about some other kind of defense?

Forgot to take your meds agin this morning?OR just too much caffeine?
 
The Old Medic
+1
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post

The difference is that they're not shoving those knives in other people's faces in public schools, trying to pressure and manipulate others into following their own beliefs.

The Knives are no different than wearing a Cross or Star of David around your neck or wearing a Burqa or Turban.... which is perfectly fine. But when you start going around with messages or telling others your way is the right way and spreading propaganda in a publicly funded educational institution, you cross the line, just like this kid did.

They all have the right to believe and practice whatever religion they all want to.... but they do not have the right to advertise and shove propaganda in the faces of their fellow students.

You wouldn't like it if some Muslim kid went around the classrooms telling people to follow his religion?

That's basically what this kid was doing.

He was wearing a shirt that basically stated: "If you don't believe in Jesus and Follow his Teachings, your life is worthless and your a waste."

Let's keep in mind that this was "Forest Heights Community School" ~ Not "Forest Heights Private Catholic/Christian School"

If he comes back wearing the shirt out of deliberate protest against the school's rules, then he should be expelled and not graduate.

He has no right to make other students uncomfortable or to trash their differing beliefs by advertising a slogan saying they're wasting their lives and thus, a waste themselves. If he's allowed to do that, then you can expect Muslims, Jewish, and every other belief/group out there to come through the doors with their own slogans and advertisements trashing each other's beliefs and shoving their own in other's faces.... and anybody with common sense should know where that's going to eventually lead to.

Somebody or some group of kids are going to get the crap beaten out of them by another group..... that's why you keep church and state separate in the first place.

Believe what you want.... practice what you believe, but show the same respect to others who don't believe what you do and don't shove your BS down their throats.

^ It's not rocket science and if more religious people practiced this, there'd be a hell of a lot more tolerance in the world. Hell, the majority of atheists would probably tolerate religious people a lot more if they stopped shoving their omnipotence into everybody's face.

This kid's an idiot and got exactly what he deserved.

Guess what? He won, and is allowed to wear the shirt. Guess some of you have egg all over your faces!
 
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