Right-wing extremist pleads 'not guilty' to massacre


petros
#91
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

And there would be 8,000 people in Syria who would beg to differ.....................if they were still alive.

8,000 dead just for gas pipelines and contracts.
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
#92
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

8,000 dead just for gas pipelines and contracts.

Never did figure out what's behind that shmozzle.
 
petros
#93
Jordan needs nat gas. They can get through 4 sources.

1.Egypt through Israel like they are now
2.Directly from Israel once their offshore field is tapped.
3.Iran through Turkey and Syria
4.Lebanon through Syria once Lebanon's offshore is tapped.

Making more sense now?
 
earth_as_one
#94
Quote: Originally Posted by willqccanView Post

U.N.'s main mission is to look over human rights and make sure they're respected. You can't do that well if you execute the guy.

I'll see your 8000 Syrians and raise you 1.455 million Iraqis...

Lessons of Iraq war underscore importance of UN Charter - Annan (external - login to view)

The number is shocking and sobering. It is at least 10 times greater than most estimates cited in the US media, yet it is based on a scientific study of violent Iraqi deaths caused by the U.S.-led invasion of March 2003.




Iraq Deaths | Just Foreign Policy (external - login to view)

Also I'd like to point out that the title of this thread is inaccurate. Breivik isn't right wing. His agenda is anti-Islamization of Europe. He fears that Europe will become part of Eurabia. (A conspiracy theory promoted by anti-Muslim propagandists)

The term (Eurabia) is often used by writers such as Oriana Fallaci (external - login to view),[7] (external - login to view) Robert Spencer (external - login to view),[8] (external - login to view) Daniel Pipes (external - login to view),[9] (external - login to view) Melanie Phillips (external - login to view),[10] (external - login to view) Mark Steyn (external - login to view)[11] (external - login to view) and several web sites.[12] (external - login to view)

2083: A European Declaration of Independence, the manifesto of Anders Behring Breivik (external - login to view), the perpetrator of the 2011 Norway attacks (external - login to view), includes a lengthy discussion of and support for the "Eurabia" theory.[13] (external - login to view) As a result, the theory received widespread mainstream media attention following the attacks.[14] (external - login to view)

Eurabia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (external - login to view)
 
Machjo
#95
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

Oh give it a break!

Breivik's views are not of a political nature, even extremism requires some sort of coherent linear thought leading to rational, if twisted, conclusion.

Breivik managed none of that.

He is cookoo, whacky, crazy, bananas, psycho, nuts, looney, batty, whatever the hell you want to call it.

Even HE denies that he is a Christian.

Read the bloody manifesto,

BBC News - Anders Behring Breivik wants acquittal or death penalty (external - login to view)

"Well, I am a militant Christian; to prevent the de-Christianisation of Europe is very important," he said.
"But this does not mean we want to introduce a Christian theocracy. We are not Christian fundamentalists. I believe in God and I believe in a life after death."

Of course it would be ridiculous to judge the Christian faith based on the words and actions of those who call themselves Christians, and that it ought to be judged by the words of Jesus himself and his own actions.

But just to clarify, he does call himself a Christian.
 
Locutus
+1
#96
 
earth_as_one
#97
That's true Machjo. He says the same thing in his manifesto, but he also states he's not particular religious and considers Christian leaders who promote friendly relations with Muslims as traitors. His motivation isn't so much pro-Christian as anti-Islam, anti-Eurabia...
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
#98
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Jordan needs nat gas. They can get through 4 sources.

1.Egypt through Israel like they are now
2.Directly from Israel once their offshore field is tapped.
3.Iran through Turkey and Syria
4.Lebanon through Syria once Lebanon's offshore is tapped.

Making more sense now?

Not really, how much more gas are they going to get by killing women and babies?
 
Machjo
#99
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Not really, how much more gas are they going to get by killing women and babies?

That depends on how many beans are being digested in those bellies.
 
petros
#100
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Not really, how much more gas are they going to get by killing women and babies?

They are killing women and babies in Jordan?
 
Tonington
+4
#101
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

even extremism requires some sort of coherent linear thought leading to rational, if twisted, conclusion.

No it doesn't. That's a purely ad-hoc redefining of a term. Breivik clearly has political goals, he wrote extensively about them. He's an extremist in many ways, cultural conservatism, nationalism...and of course an Islamophobe.
 
mentalfloss
#102
AFP: Breivik apologises to his non-political victims (external - login to view)

Breivik's ramblings show he made a choice to kill - The Globe and Mail
 
Goober
Free Thinker
#103
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

No it doesn't. That's a purely ad-hoc redefining of a term. Breivik clearly has political goals, he wrote extensively about them. He's an extremist in many ways, cultural conservatism, nationalism...and of course an Islamophobe.

Opps hit the wrong button
A paranoid schizophrenic ,and he was diagnosed as such. and these people will always find a reason that justifies their end means and justify it in their mind. Islam just happened t be one that is more on the radar than others. To label him an Islamophobe sets his mental health problems to the sidelines.
 
Tonington
+1
#104
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

To label him an Islamophobe sets his mental health problems to the sidelines.

A spade is a spade, and a spade can still be an ace, or even a Jack...being completely mental doesn't mean someone can't also be an Islamophobe...a phobia by nature isn't rational.
 
Goober
Free Thinker
#105
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

A spade is a spade, and a spade can still be an ace, or even a Jack...being completely mental doesn't mean someone can't also be an Islamophobe...a phobia by nature isn't rational.

And a paro schizoid will always find a reason for their actions. The mental state is the base from which decisions are made. In this case it was Islam. In another time, location it will be something else.
Do you disagree with those points?
 
Tonington
#106
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

And a paro schizoid will always find a reason for their actions. The mental state is the base from which decisions are made. In this case it was Islam. In another time, location it will be something else.
Do you disagree with those points?

No, of course not. But it's not really pertinent to what I was saying in response to Colpy. Extremists are judges by their actions, the things they say and do, not by their mental state. There are other paranoid schizophrenics out there who never become extremists like Breivik.
 
mentalfloss
+1
#107
It's interesting that he wasn't clearly viewed as insane before he killed a whole bunch of people.
 
earth_as_one
#108
Breivik is not a paranoid schizophrenic.

Schizophrenia is a mental disorder characterized by a breakdown of thought processes and by poor emotional responsiveness.[1] It most commonly manifests itself as auditory hallucinations, paranoid or bizarre delusions, or disorganized speech and thinking, and it is accompanied by significant social or occupational dysfunction. The onset of symptoms typically occurs in young adulthood, with a global lifetime prevalence of about 0.3–0.7%.[2] Diagnosis is based on observed behavior and the patient's reported experiences.

Breivik is able to express his extreme viewpoint clearly and coherently. He is an extremist who lacks compassion. He knew he was breaking the law and killing innocent people. In other words, he's sane.
 
Goober
Free Thinker
+1
#109
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

It's interesting that he wasn't clearly viewed as insane before he killed a whole bunch of people.

Lots of crazies out there. hw many times after they have caught a killer did you hear - Oh i would never have guessed- Who would have thought he was like that.

Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

Breivik is not a paranoid schizophrenic.

Breivik is able to express his extreme viewpoint clearly and coherently. He is an extremist who lacks compassion. He knew he was breaking the law and killing innocent people. In other words, he's sane.

God help us but you are dumb. He has been diagnosed as such. The line between legally sane and insane is quite fine. Your problem is that him being a paro shchizoid does not fit with your agenda. So as usual, dissenting proof is tossed to the side.

We are more than used to that from you.
 
mentalfloss
+1
#110
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Lots of crazies out there. hw many times after they have caught a killer did you hear - Oh i would never have guessed- Who would have thought he was like that.

Well that definitely kills the argument that some are peddling that it is patently obvious he's insane.
 
earth_as_one
#111
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Lots of crazies out there. hw many times after they have caught a killer did you hear - Oh i would never have guessed- Who would have thought he was like that.



God help us but you are dumb. He has been diagnosed as such. The line between legally sane and insane is quite fine. Your problem is that him being a paro shchizoid does not fit with your agenda. So as usual, dissenting proof is tossed to the side.

We are more than used to that from you.

Please refrain from PERSONAL ATTACKS and keep this thread ON TOPIC!!

I am well aware that a preliminary psychiatric examination determined Breivik was insane. But the decision was determined to be based on a flawed process so the court order a proper evaluation using standardized methods and the second evaluation had this result.

Norway's mass killer Breivik declared sane

A second psychiatric evaluation of Norwegian mass killer Anders Behring Breivik has found him sane enough to face trial and a jail term. The findings contradict a previous evaluation, published in November, that found him legally insane. "Our conclusion is that he is not psychotic at the time of the actions of terrorism and he is not psychotic now," psychiatrist Terje Toerrissen, who carried out the second assessment with fellow psychiatrist Agnar Aspaas, told the Associated Press. The full report is confidential, and the two psychiatrists will give their reasons for arriving at a different conclusion to the first team of experts when they testify during the trial, AP reports....
BBC News - Norway's mass killer Breivik declared sane (external - login to view)
 
Tonington
+2
#112
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

He has been diagnosed as such. The line between legally sane and insane is quite fine. Your problem is that him being a paro shchizoid does not fit with your agenda. So as usual, dissenting proof is tossed to the side.

There were two evaluations. One came to the conclusion that he was a paranoid schizophrenic. The other that he was not psychotic at the time of the attacks, but rather he has a narcissistic personality disorder.

You are doing the same thing you accuse EAO of doing. It's not cut and dry either way. It's not like diagnosing a pathogenic disease, where there is an etiologic agent that can be confirmed as causing illness.

Whatever the case, regardless of whether or not he is psychotic, he's a violent man with extreme views of the world. He's a terrorist.
 
earth_as_one
#113
today's trial details from a Norwegian source:
Breivik’s ‘apology’ branded ‘pathetic’ : Views and News from Norway (external - login to view)
 
Goober
Free Thinker
#114
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

Well that definitely kills the argument that some are peddling that it is patently obvious he's insane.

One team diagnosed him as insane - That was always up for review - Another review was done. So he is legally sane. But that is not the argument I made - he has still been diagnosed as a Paranoid Schizophrenic.

But anyone with a tad of sense knows their is a very fine line between legally sane or insane. You know it, I know it.

So 1st he was declared legally insane, then he appealed and was declared legally sane. These mental illnesses led to him finding his outlet- his rage was to be directed at a non existent threat to others - but was reality to him Islam. So does that make him an Islamophobe- Only after you take his illness into account.
But that does not fit some people agenda.


The point that some make is he was Islamphobic - OK - But what came first - I would say the mental illness. And with that type of illness as i have mentioned you end up picking what ever your delusions lead you to. And for him it was Islam. Just because he is on that fine line of knowing right from wrong does not make him completely sane now does it?

Paranoid schizophrenia - MayoClinic.com (external - login to view)

Paranoid schizophrenia is one of several types of schizophrenia, a chronic mental illness in which a person loses touch with reality (psychosis). The classic features of paranoid schizophrenia are having delusions and hearing things that aren't real.

With paranoid schizophrenia, your ability to think and function in daily life may be better than with other types of schizophrenia. You may not have as many problems with memory, concentration or dulled emotions. Still, paranoid schizophrenia is a serious, lifelong condition that can lead to many complications, including suicidal behavior.

With effective treatment, you can manage the symptoms of paranoid schizophrenia and work toward leading a happier, healthier life.


Paranoid schizophrenia - MayoClinic.com (external - login to view)

Schizophrenia is a group of severe brain disorders in which people interpret reality abnormally. Schizophrenia may result in some combination of hallucinations, delusions, and disordered thinking and behavior.

Contrary to some popular belief, schizophrenia isn't split personality or multiple personality. The word "schizophrenia" does mean "split mind," but it refers to a disruption of the usual balance of emotions and thinking.

Schizophrenia is a chronic condition, requiring lifelong treatment.
 
CDNBear
+1
#115
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

There are other paranoid schizophrenics out there who never become extremists like Breivik.

True, but having a relative that is, I can tell you with all certainty, they can be extremely intelligent. Commit crimes without so much as a second thought. Justify those crimes with all manner of nonsense. Slip under the radar for years.

Oddly enough, many appear to be narcissistic.

Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

It's interesting that he wasn't clearly viewed as insane before he killed a whole bunch of people.

There are schizophrenics out there that never get diagnosed. That doesn't mean they aren't.

Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

Breivik is not a paranoid schizophrenic.

Stick to demonizing Israel.

Quote:

Breivik is able to express his extreme viewpoint clearly and coherently.

So can most paranoid schizophrenics, with great detail.

Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

There were two evaluations. One came to the conclusion that he was a paranoid schizophrenic. The other that he was not psychotic at the time of the attacks, but rather he has a narcissistic personality disorder.

Interesting...

Quote:

The Concept of Narcissism in Schizophrenic States (external - login to view)

Thomas Freeman (external - login to view)


The theory of narcissistic regression has proved of extreme value in enabling the clinician to relate a number of clinical phenomena which occur in almost every schizophrenic illness. The concept has thus had a unifying and integrating influence.

NPD, does not have components that are prevalent in Breviek.

Quote:

You are doing the same thing you accuse EAO of doing. It's not cut and dry either way. It's not like diagnosing a pathogenic disease, where there is an etiologic agent that can be confirmed as causing illness.

This is true. BUT! The primary diagnoses set off outrage. The secondary likely had a predetermined conclusion. The fact that they state narcissism as the cause, and narcissism being a component of schizophrenia, I think my observation is correct.

Quote:

Whatever the case, regardless of whether or not he is psychotic, he's a violent man with extreme views of the world. He's a terrorist.

I'm in 100% agreement.
Last edited by CDNBear; Apr 24th, 2012 at 04:58 PM..
 
Tonington
+2
#116
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Oddly enough, many appear to be narcissistic.

I don't think that's odd at all. You'll be able to find all sorts of characterizations that are commonly found in many disorders.

Quote:

This is true. BUT! The primary diagnoses set off outrage. The secondary likely had a predetermined conclusion.

In cases of mental illness and disorder it's easy to find experts who will disagree on diagnoses. In fact the psychiatrist at the detention center where he was kept made no observations of psychoses, nor did he note any suicidal tendencies, as the first panel concluded. That psychiatrist also noted that Breivik appeared to have a personality disorder.

Quote:

The fact that they state narcissism as the cause, and narcissism being a component of schizophrenia, I think my observation is correct.

Narcissism is just one type of personality disorder, by which that sub-type of personality disorder is characterized. It's not the cause of the disorder...As I noted before, you'll find high degrees of correlation amongst many symptoms across the range of mental illnesses. Lack of empathy for example, common to both schizophrenia and narcissistic personality disorder.

Breivik to me, appears to be a more highly functioning person than those who I've known with schizophrenia.
 
earth_as_one
-1
#117
I know someone with schizophrenia. He becomes catatonic when he stops taking his meds. Breviek is nothing like that. He's sane, has an extreme viewpoint and willing to kill as many people as necessary to further his agenda.

People who share Breiviks irrational fear and hatred of Muslims want to believe Breivik is crazy rather than someone who is more like them than they want to admit.
 
CDNBear
+4
#118
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

In cases of mental illness and disorder it's easy to find experts who will disagree on diagnoses. In fact the psychiatrist at the detention center where he was kept made no observations of psychoses, nor did he note any suicidal tendencies, as the first panel concluded.

Suicidal doesn't necessarily mean one is willing to slit their wrists, or hang themselves. It can also manifest as interest in extreme activities, or a willingness to die for a cause

Quote:

That psychiatrist also noted that Breivik appeared to have a personality disorder.

No doubt.

Quote:

Narcissism is just one type of personality disorder, by which that sub-type of personality disorder is characterized. It's not the cause of the disorder...As I noted before, you'll find high degrees of correlation amongst many symptoms across the range of mental illnesses. Lack of empathy for example, common to both schizophrenia and narcissistic personality disorder.

Agreed, but unless one is willing to state that his perceptions of Islam and Norwegian immigration policies are correct, then he was obviously delusional. Not a component of NPD.

Quote:

Breivik to me, appears to be a more highly functioning person than those who I've known with schizophrenia.

He doesn't come off as out of the norm, from my experiences.

My half brother is extremely organized, proficient in collating data, and relating it, with great detail and clarity. He also thinks his Aunt has a penchant for stealing his yogurt. To which ends, he has tabulated extensive evidence, to justify his reactions to said thefts. So compelling is his manufactured evidence, and ability to relate it, that he has actually been able to convince Police Officers, to question her.

He's extremely articulate and well educated. Well traveled and speaks 5 languages fluently. Manipulative and as empathetic as a rock.
Having read Brevieks manifesto, it reads like my brothers compelling diatribe of the Middle East. From a Palestinian perspective. Both read like our very own CC member "wizard". In fact, I will cite "wizards" own confession to being diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic, and his own recollection of the events of his life. Justification of his criminal acts, and subsequent brush with the authorities, as further proof, the second evaluation, was simply a predetermined conclusion, to abate the outrage of the general populace. I do agree that different Psychiatrists can and will come to differing conclusions. But I contend that in this case, it appears far to convenient.

Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

I know someone with schizophrenia. He becomes catatonic when he stops taking his meds. Breviek is nothing like that.

As everyone knows, all mental illness manifests in a identical manner, with exactly the same severity...

FFS EAO, try to be at least moderately objective for once in your life.

Quote:

He's sane, has an extreme viewpoint and willing to kill as many people as necessary to further his agenda.

People who steadfastly believe Breviek is sane, disregarding the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, is pushing an agenda to smear those that one finds themselves in contradiction with.

Shame on you EAO. Your hypocrisy is pathetic.

Quote:

People who share Breiviks irrational fear and hatred of Muslims want to believe Breivik is crazy rather than someone who is more like them than they want to admit.

Good thing I don't share Breviek's fears, or I could easily misconstrue your post as a personal attack, well hidden, but an attack none the less.

Maybe if you didn't try and hide such cowardly and silly attacks in your posts, people like me, that aren't cowardly, won't openly reciprocate.
 
DaSleeper
+1
#119
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post


Good thing I don't share Breviek's fears, or I could easily misconstrue your post as a personal attack, well hidden, but an attack none the less.

Maybe if you didn't try and hide such cowardly and silly attacks in your posts, people like me, that aren't cowardly, won't openly reciprocate.

When It comes to EAO two words apply "Plausible deniability" or....in other words Bob and Weave
 
CDNBear
+2
#120
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeperView Post

When It comes to EAO two words apply "Plausible deniability" or....in other words Bob and Weave

Only one word actually applies IMHO, coward. One who will then cry to the Mods, because he's confronted by members who aren't.
 

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