Nearly all drug trials scientifically invalid

darkbeaver

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Feb 22 10:57

Nearly all drug trials scientifically invalid due to influence of the mind; Big Pharma science dissolves into wishful thinking




A new study in Science Translational Medicine has cast doubt over the scientific validity of nearly all randomized, double-blind placebo controlled studies involving pharmaceuticals used on human beings. It turns out that many pharmaceuticals only work because people expect them to, not because they have any "real" chemical effect on the body. As you'll see here, when test subjects were told that they were not receiving painkiller medications -- even though they were -- the medication proved to be completely worthless.
 

JLM

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Feb 22 10:57

Nearly all drug trials scientifically invalid due to influence of the mind; Big Pharma science dissolves into wishful thinking



A new study in Science Translational Medicine has cast doubt over the scientific validity of nearly all randomized, double-blind placebo controlled studies involving pharmaceuticals used on human beings. It turns out that many pharmaceuticals only work because people expect them to, not because they have any "real" chemical effect on the body. As you'll see here, when test subjects were told that they were not receiving painkiller medications -- even though they were -- the medication proved to be completely worthless.

So when these drugs are administered to people in a coma what happens?
 

Tonington

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Yup, morphine only works because you think it will. Blood pressure medication only works because you think it will. And those animals that are given post-operation pain-killers which block the nociceptors from firing, and thus halt the pain response, they only work because the dogs expect to feel better when given a strange substance.

What rubbish.

Notice how the study was about pain medication? Did you notice they conflate double-blind studies with randomized controlled trials? And how the editor of that trash magazine applied his editorial to all drugs, not just pain killers? And notice how you have to accept his understanding of the investigation in question?

No, I doubt you noticed any of that beaver...

There's lots we don't know about pain, veterinarians actually get taught more about pain than MD's receive. But we know how pain transmission proceeds. We know how to block receptors. Not having a link to the actual study, it's hard to tell what the real story is, the editor here is obviously dripping confirmation bias all over the place.
 

JLM

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Tonington And those animals that are given post-operation pain-killers which block the nociceptors from firing said:
One thing you have to realize here- Not everyone who posts here is "playing with a full deck" :lol:
 

darkbeaver

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Keep in mind those are recognized scientist JLM, I did not write any of it. I'm posting it to see the scientist on scientist bloodbath.DB




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Sci Transl Med 16 February 2011:
Vol. 3, Issue 70, p. 70ra14
DOI: 10.1126/scitranslmed.3001244

  • Research Article
Drug Efficacy The Effect of Treatment Expectation on Drug Efficacy: Imaging the Analgesic Benefit of the Opioid Remifentanil


  1. Ulrike Bingel1,2,*,
  2. Vishvarani Wanigasekera1,
  3. Katja Wiech1,
  4. Roisin Ni Mhuircheartaigh1,
  5. Michael C. Lee3,
  6. Markus Ploner4 and
  7. Irene Tracey1
+ Author Affiliations

  1. 1Oxford Centre for Functional MRI of the Brain, Nuffield Department of Clinical Neurosciences (Division of Anaesthetics), University of Oxford, OX3 9DU Oxford, UK.
  2. 2NeuroImage Nord, Department of Neurology, University Medical Center Hamburg-Eppendorf, 20246 Hamburg, Germany.
  3. 3Division of Anaesthesia, Cambridge University, Addenbrookes Hospital, CB2 0QQ Cambridge, UK.
  4. 4Department of Neurology, Technische Universität München, 81675 Munich, Germany.

  1. *To whom correspondence should be addressed. E-mail: bingel@uke.de

Abstract

Evidence from behavioral and self-reported data suggests that the patients’ beliefs and expectations can shape both therapeutic and adverse effects of any given drug. We investigated how divergent expectancies alter the analgesic efficacy of a potent opioid in healthy volunteers by using brain imaging. The effect of a fixed concentration of the μ-opioid agonist remifentanil on constant heat pain was assessed under three experimental conditions using a within-subject design: with no expectation of analgesia, with expectancy of a positive analgesic effect, and with negative expectancy of analgesia (that is, expectation of hyperalgesia or exacerbation of pain). We used functional magnetic resonance imaging to record brain activity to corroborate the effects of expectations on the analgesic efficacy of the opioid and to elucidate the underlying neural mechanisms. Positive treatment expectancy substantially enhanced (doubled) the analgesic benefit of remifentanil. In contrast, negative treatment expectancy abolished remifentanil analgesia. These subjective effects were substantiated by significant changes in the neural activity in brain regions involved with the coding of pain intensity. The positive expectancy effects were associated with activity in the endogenous pain modulatory system, and the negative expectancy effects with activity in the hippocampus. On the basis of subjective and objective evidence, we contend that an individual’s expectation of a drug’s effect critically influences its therapeutic efficacy and that regulatory brain mechanisms differ as a function of expectancy. We propose that it may be necessary to integrate patients’ beliefs and expectations into drug treatment regimes alongside traditional considerations in order to optimize treatment outcomes.

Footnotes


  • Citation: U. Bingel, V. Wanigasekera, K. Wiech, R. Ni Mhuircheartaigh, M. C. Lee, M. Ploner, I. Tracey, The Effect of Treatment Expectation on Drug Efficacy: Imaging the Analgesic Benefit of the Opioid Remifentanil. Sci. Transl. Med. 3, 70ra14 (2011).


  • Copyright © 2011, American Association for the Advancement of Science

Yup, morphine only works because you think it will. Blood pressure medication only works because you think it will. And those animals that are given post-operation pain-killers which block the nociceptors from firing, and thus halt the pain response, they only work because the dogs expect to feel better when given a strange substance.

What rubbish.

Notice how the study was about pain medication? Did you notice they conflate double-blind studies with randomized controlled trials? And how the editor of that trash magazine applied his editorial to all drugs, not just pain killers? And notice how you have to accept his understanding of the investigation in question?

No, I doubt you noticed any of that beaver...

There's lots we don't know about pain, veterinarians actually get taught more about pain than MD's receive. But we know how pain transmission proceeds. We know how to block receptors. Not having a link to the actual study, it's hard to tell what the real story is, the editor here is obviously dripping confirmation bias all over the place.

I noticed, those are all valid observations. What is anyone to make of the science, when such controversy is so easily obtained. The doctored title in the Natural News item does no justice to the sites credibility for sure, but. The scientists themselves and the institutions seem to be in good order though, are they not?
 

Tonington

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Thanks for the link. Let's compare the scientists conclusions with what the editor of the magazine you linked to said:

Scientists:
On the basis of subjective and objective evidence, we contend that an individual’s expectation of a drug’s effect critically influences its therapeutic efficacy and that regulatory brain mechanisms differ as a function of expectancy. We propose that it may be necessary to integrate patients’ beliefs and expectations into drug treatment regimes alongside traditional considerations in order to optimize treatment outcomes.

Editorial:
(NaturalNews) A new study in Science Translational Medicine has cast doubt over the scientific validity of nearly all randomized, double-blind placebo controlled studies involving pharmaceuticals used on human beings.

That is not at all what the study concludes.

 

TenPenny

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. As you'll see here, when test subjects were told that they were not receiving painkiller medications -- even though they were -- the medication proved to be completely worthless.

Which is why the studies are done as double blind studies.
Anyone involved in pharmaceutical research knows about the placebo effect, and also the effect that the mind has - if you believe something will not cure you, it won't.
 

JLM

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Which is why the studies are done as double blind studies.
Anyone involved in pharmaceutical research knows about the placebo effect, and also the effect that the mind has - if you believe something will not cure you, it won't.

I'm a great believer in mind over matter, but I also think if you think you'll get better and you do you probably would with or without the drug. What happens when you give a cat a drug and the cat doesn't think it's going to work?
 

JLM

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[QUOTE=

Oh yeah- I've known people who are just P*ssed right off if they get better- but generally within a day there is something else wrong with them. :lol:
 

Goober

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So when these drugs are administered to people in a coma what happens?
I found they worked well on me. No longer have that infection but the coma is still hanging in there.

I'm a great believer in mind over matter, but I also think if you think you'll get better and you do you probably would with or without the drug. What happens when you give a cat a drug and the cat doesn't think it's going to work?
Really JLM, I expected better. They have 9 lives - we have one.
 

darkbeaver

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Thanks for the link. Let's compare the scientists conclusions with what the editor of the magazine you linked to said:

Scientists:
On the basis of subjective and objective evidence, we contend that an individual’s expectation of a drug’s effect critically influences its therapeutic efficacy and that regulatory brain mechanisms differ as a function of expectancy. We propose that it may be necessary to integrate patients’ beliefs and expectations into drug treatment regimes alongside traditional considerations in order to optimize treatment outcomes.

Editorial:
(NaturalNews) A new study in Science Translational Medicine has cast doubt over the scientific validity of nearly all randomized, double-blind placebo controlled studies involving pharmaceuticals used on human beings.

That is not at all what the study concludes.


Yeah I saw that the editorial was sexed up but his concluding doubt is in order I think. I can understand the teams reluctance to come right out with that however. The natural news guy made the conclusion that they were smart not to. Publish or perish promotes a very soft track maybe. In any case this appears to be science, Oxford, ain't they got some pull. Interestingly enough I'v had some very bad inflamation and pain in a shoulder for a few days which I treated with demeral to absolutly no effect when I expected complete relief as is usual with it. About two hours ago I swallowed five 327mg tabs of acetaminophen in desperation really with little hope of relief and contrary to my expectations I have complete relief for the first time in three days. So I'm undecided but open to further study. Maybe animal studies are the way to go but how in hell do you survey their expectations.

Abstract

Evidence from behavioral and self-reported data suggests that the patients’ beliefs and expectations can shape both therapeutic and adverse effects of any given drug.


"Of any given drug" that's pretty sweeping for Oxford affiliates isn't it?
 

Cliffy

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I found they worked well on me. No longer have that infection but the coma is still hanging in there.


Really JLM, I expected better. They have 9 lives - we have one.
I beg to differ. I have had six near death experiences, two for sure were flat liners. If we only had one life, I wouldn't be here. But then again, maybe I'm just a figment of your imagination. If that is the case, I would have my head examined, if I were you.8O:lol:
 

JLM

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I beg to differ. I have had six near death experiences, two for sure were flat liners. If we only had one life, I wouldn't be here. But then again, maybe I'm just a figment of your imagination. If that is the case, I would have my head examined, if I were you.8O:lol:

You're doing good Cliff, I've known people who through out their existance had a couple of near life experiences. :lol:
 

Cliffy

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You're doing good Cliff, I've known people who through out their existance had a couple of near life experiences. :lol:
Considering that according to doctors, I am supposed to be dead by now, I am doing fantastic. Today I drove to Edgewood to give a slide show presentation on the history of the Sinixt people to a class of grade 5 - 7ers. The children were fascinated and asked really intelligent questions. It really felt good to accomplish something that was appreciated, especially since I am supposed to be extinct like the Sinixt. And like the Sinixt, I'm still here, alive and kicking.
 

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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Considering that according to doctors, I am supposed to be dead by now, I am doing fantastic. Today I drove to Edgewood to give a slide show presentation on the history of the Sinixt people to a class of grade 5 - 7ers. The children were fascinated and asked really intelligent questions. It really felt good to accomplish something that was appreciated, especially since I am supposed to be extinct like the Sinixt. And like the Sinixt, I'm still here, alive and kicking.


Mind before matter, the materialists never get that.
 

karrie

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The only conclusion I can take away from this study is that patient expectation IMPACTS treatment success, not that it is the only factor in treatment success. And doctors could already tell you that, even if they're not all that great at implementing it sometimes. Shoot, the UofA campus actually has one project dedicated entirely to the fact that mental state has an impact. It's called 'The Hope Foundation', and directly studies 'hopefulness' as it pertains to both treatment outcomes and quality of life.

The Hope Foundation

The fact that the Uni has realized that this is a very crucial area to research however, has not stopped them from trying to solve cancer, diabetes, etc. And no, you can't seem to wish your blood sugar into balance, or hope away your epilepsy.

All life in balance folks.
 

Tonington

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Poadip opwfawd jisdef qwqd, scfhsif e qwrw.

See beaver, I can puke out gibberish too...