Gene mutation might explain why we talk, chimps don't

Francis2004

Francis2004

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Gene mutation might explain why we talk, chimps don't


WASHINGTON — Chimps, our nearest relative, don't talk. We do. Now scientists have pinpointed a mutation in a gene that might help explain the difference.

The mutation seems to have helped humans develop speech and language. It probably is not the only gene involved, but researchers found the gene looks and acts differently in chimps and humans, according to a study published online Wednesday by the journal Nature.

Lab tests showed that the human version regulated more than 100 other genes differently from the chimp version. This particular gene - called FOXP2 - mutated around the time humans developed the ability to talk.

"It's really playing a major role in chimp-human differences," said the study's author, Daniel Geschwind, a professor of neurology, psychiatry and human genetics at the University of California, Los Angeles. "You mutate this gene in humans and you get a speech and language disorder."

This tells you "what may be happening in the brain," he said.
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CTV News | Gene mutation might explain why we talk, chimps don't

Does this mean the talking bird have the mutated gene ?

Can they start adjusting other species to have this mutation ?

IMO and as some point out I believe there has to much more to it then just a gene .. It certainly makes speech sound so easy to attain from this perspective..
 
gerryh

gerryh

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birds do not have "language" or "speach"....they mimic, that is all.
 
karrie

karrie

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Differences in genes can help explain the difference between us and chimps? Sheesh... I wish I could get paid for astute 'discoveries' like that. lol.
 
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AnnaG

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I guess chickens aren't birds then.
There's a big difference in what sounds chickens emit. Squawks mean certain things and are different from clucks.
Some are a warning, some are becons.

Even bees have a language.
 
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AnnaG

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karrie said:
Differences in genes can help explain the difference between us and chimps? Sheesh... I wish I could get paid for astute 'discoveries' like that. lol.
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hhhhmmmm *Clicks on Kiwi's profile* :D
 
Tonington

Tonington

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Getting published in Nature is a big deal. You get lots of press coverage, lots of attention, but I have to agree with those who said that people need to be cautious about these results.

We know where the mutation is, precisely for one cause of cystic fibrosis. We know that the mutation is a deletion of three base pairs at the 508th position of a nucleotide sequence (technically the final base of 507 and the first two of 508). It means that the polypeptide is missing phenylalanine at this position, and the polypeptide chain is one amino acid shorter. But we still haven't been able to create a treatment for CF utilizing this knowledge, yet alone a cure.

Anyways, kudos to these researchers. It's still an amazing accomplishment.
 
Francis2004

Francis2004

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I am by far not an expert on the subject but interested. I cannot but wonder how many animals, if not all, have some method of smart communications.

Speech is man's way to do so but is not exclusive.. We communicate in other ways such as body language.

If talk is somehow a mutated form that can be engineered into other species it does lead to one to wonder what else is required for language skills.

Is reasoning a requirement as well ?
 
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Cliffy

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big said:
Human civilizations are really the products of written symbolic languages.
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Considering where written language and civilizations have lead us, we must wonder if we have progressed or regressed. Language has hindered communication as much as it has helped it.
 
Tonington

Tonington

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big said:
What would be really amazing is to understand why the capacity to talk makes such a huge difference in living conditions.
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It's not necessarily the speech capacity which was selected for. The gene alters expression of 112 other genes. It's not known yet what other changes happen in the brain because of this one transcription factor.
 
big

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Cliffy said:
Considering where written language and civilizations have lead us, we must wonder if we have progressed or regressed. Language has hindered communication as much as it has helped it.
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Psychoanalysts, not biologists, know why symbols have such powers.
 
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Cliffy

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big said:
Psychoanalysts, not biologists, know why symbols have such powers.
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[FONT=&quot]"The Truth, God or Reality, do not change with the symbols that we use to represent them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]There are thousands of spiritual symbols including vocal, pictorial and written. The bible, ceremonial pipe, pentagrams, crosses, signs of the zodiac, runes and circles are just symbols to which we attach meanings. What people tend to forget is that words are also symbols.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Words are just a series of lines and curves or sounds. They are only symbols that we use to represent feelings, ideas and things. It is only when the eyes and ears perceive them and the mind interprets the message, relating it to past and present experience, that we attach meanings to them. This process is so fast the brain tricks itself into thinking the meaning is in the word, not in its own interpretation of it.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Words have a certain mystique. We place scholars on a pedestal and lavish awards on those most skilled at manipulating words while frowning on the illiterate. We are so enchanted with the power we feel in words we measure our success as a civilization on our ability to use them. We give names to everything we see and invent new ones to help us classify our experiences of life."[/FONT]
Our words and symbols, however, cannot allow us to know what it is to be a frog or a lion, because all they are is symbols of but not reality.
 
big

big

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Cliffy said:
[FONT=&quot]"The Truth, God or Reality, do not change with the symbols that we use to represent them.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]There are thousands of spiritual symbols including vocal, pictorial and written. The bible, ceremonial pipe, pentagrams, crosses, signs of the zodiac, runes and circles are just symbols to which we attach meanings. What people tend to forget is that words are also symbols.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Words are just a series of lines and curves or sounds. They are only symbols that we use to represent feelings, ideas and things. It is only when the eyes and ears perceive them and the mind interprets the message, relating it to past and present experience, that we attach meanings to them. This process is so fast the brain tricks itself into thinking the meaning is in the word, not in its own interpretation of it.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Words have a certain mystique. We place scholars on a pedestal and lavish awards on those most skilled at manipulating words while frowning on the illiterate. We are so enchanted with the power we feel in words we measure our success as a civilization on our ability to use them. We give names to everything we see and invent new ones to help us classify our experiences of life."[/FONT]
Our words and symbols, however, cannot allow us to know what it is to be a frog or a lion, because all they are is symbols of but not reality.
Click to expand...

The signifier has its own autonomy over the signified.

Semiotics for Beginners: Signs
 
Tonington

Tonington

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big said:
It is not a transcription factor but a duplication error.
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The transcription factor is what resulted from the change in the genome. :roll: The expression of 61 genes is increased in humans as compared to the chimps, and 51 are decreased as compared to the chimps.
 
big

big

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Tonington said:
The transcription factor is what resulted from the change in the genome. :roll: The expression of 61 genes is increased in humans as compared to the chimps, and 51 are decreased as compared to the chimps.
Click to expand...

This single mutation has certainly multiple effects in our genome but to speak of one transcription factor is abusive: strictly speaking, for a transcription to be possible, scripture has to exist already!
 
Tonington

Tonington

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Maybe if I repeat the central dogma of molecular genetics, you might understand. A gene in DNA is transcribed to RNA which is translated into a polypeptide which is processed into a protein.

That one transcription factor affects the transcription of 112 other genes...

I think I'm about done with you.
 
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